Jesuit: And do you have a, what I may call a training in contemplation, in which you get...
Prabhupāda: That is smaraṇam. Memorizing. Thinking of God's activities.
Jesuit: And, er, now in mysticism, Christian mysticism, Western mysticism, we have, say, the seven castles of St. Theresa of Avila, and we have a process of contemplation which we call infused, which God gives. Ordinary prayer, which anybody is able to make. Theresa would speak about the three castles, the first three castles.
Prabhupāda: Three castle?
Jesuit: Mm. In her book, Interior Mansions. But the real mystic prayer, well, is not given to everybody. Do you have... Do these men get trained in mystic prayer, contemplation?
Prabhupāda: Mystic prayer means to think of God's activities. So that is smaraṇam.
Jesuit: Smaraṇam. Not so much thinking of them as just being really in His presence and open to receive love and to be active. Do you know what I mean?
Prabhupāda: Well, but bhakti is activity. Bhakti is not passive. Active. Just like hearing. It is activity. Similarly glorifying, this is activity. Smaraṇam, remembering, memorizing, that is activity.
Jesuit: That is true. I see that. I think I sort of see a higher form of activity, where the senses really have taken over...
Prabhupāda: Sense means activity.
Jesuit: Intuition. Something higher than...
Prabhupāda: Sense, when you use your sense, just like śravaṇam, hearing. So you use your sense. So this is activity.
Jesuit: I see that. I understand that.
Prabhupāda: You engage your ear. That means activity. I glorify, I speak, I engage my tongue in glorifying. That is activity. But as soon as there is sense activity, that is activity.
Jesuit: Hmm. But to get that real stillness and quiet in which...
Prabhupāda: No. Bhakti is not stillness. That is neutrality. Stillness means you stop your material activity. That is stillness. But your material activities, when you stop it, that is stillness.
Jesuit: What is neutrality then?
Prabhupāda: That is neutrality, that neither spiritual nor material-on the marginal stage. It is called simply realizing how God is great. That is neutrality. But real devotion begins when one understands that "God is so great, I am rendering my service to this world uselessly. Why not render service to God?" That is called dāsyam, beginning of active devotion.