Prabhupāda: There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals.
Behavior (Conv. 1975 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"behave"
|"behaved"
|"behaves"
|"behaving"
|"behavior"
|"behaviorist"
|"behaviour"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.
Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.
Prabhupāda: Unnecessary attachment. Next life he may be not even a human being. The skyscraper building he is doing now with so great labor and enthusiasm, and next life he may be a cat or rat in that building. How can you stop it? The nature's law will act. If you have behaved like cats and dogs and you have attachment for the building, then nature will, "All right, you become a cat and dog according to karma and you remain in this building."
Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.
Devotee (1): Here in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. You are maintaining huge slaughterhouses, regular killing. So, you took instruction from Christ, "Thou shall not kill." You first of all killed him, and then the killing process is going on among the animals, and declaring wars every now and then. So the killing business is going on regularly. In your regular life also. You are maintaining big, big slaughterhouses. Then when you accepted the instruction of Christ? That I want to know. What is that date?
Carol: Do you see any hope for the world? We seem to be moving towards destruction.
Prabhupāda: No, my... You just explain.
Prabhupāda: You have no love, because you are accustomed to kill. Philosophy begins when you know that everyone is part and parcel of God, and everyone should be given the full facilities to live without injuring anyone for one's personal benefit. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). A paṇḍita, philosopher, means learned scholar. Not fools and rascals can become philosopher. Those who are learned scholar, thoughtful, they can become philosopher. But if one has no knowledge how to behave with other living entities, what is the meaning of becoming a philosopher?
Carol: How would you go about teaching this idea of love?
Prabhupāda: Love means that I want to eat something, and if I love somebody, then I will see that my beloved also eats. If you take something from your beloved, naturally the lovers present things. Just a boy loves a girl. He presents something to the girl. So, if you accept presentation by others, we should give him also something. And, if I have got some confidential thing.
Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.
Prabhupāda: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Sataṁ prasaṅgāt. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees.
Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise the society was divided into four classes—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up. Not cent percent, but even one percent man becomes ideal, the ninety-nine percent will see and follow. But there is no ideal man. That is the defect. So just like we are training them as ideal man, by character, by religion, by behavior, by education. That is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you can see practically what was their previous life and what they are now. So government should establish an institution to create ideal men. We can help. We can help.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa can understand what we want. So when we sincerely want Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sends His representative, guru. Guru is outside representative of Kṛṣṇa. So to the sincere student, Kṛṣṇa teaches from inside and outside. That is the way, so that he becomes quickly fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. So this behavior, to be attached to spiritual master, is a good qualification. Yasya prasādāt, by his mercy, Kṛṣṇa becomes merciful. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one gets spiritual master, and by the spiritual master's mercy, one gets the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
So your this behavior, attachment, is very much appreciated both by Kṛṣṇa and devotees. So continue this attitude and follow the instruction. Then it is guaranteed, go back to home, back to Godhead. It is not difficult. For a sincere person to go back to home, back to Godhead is not at all difficult. Especially Kṛṣṇa in this age has personally appeared as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice. Yes. But I say that even there is something wrong, it is not impediment. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Even if you find in devotee something bad, and his behavior is not in the standard, but because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no other business, he is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. He is saintly man. Even if you find some defect in his character, because he is sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is saintly. Kṛṣṇa says. How is that, a saintly man has got some this bad character? So that answer is next verse.
Prabhupāda: They do not know which way to go. Suppose we are walking. If we go to the this side without knowing that "This is water; we should not go," then what is the use? That is their defect. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro (BG 16.7). (chuckles) Śaucam, cleanliness, they do not know, neither behavior. Nāpi cācāro. Jagad āhur anīśvaram; (BG 16.8) "Oh, there is no God. It has come out out of the sand." This is the whole population. Jagad ahur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Which way we shall go? (break) Therefore we require vigorous propaganda to make these fools to understand what is the real aim of life. That should be our propaganda. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. They have simply calculated, "Now today the bank balance is now three millions dollars, and tomorrow it will be four million." Simply, they say. Idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. And everyone is proud, "Who is greater than me? Who can understand more than me? I am very great man." Āḍhyo mām abhi... What is that? Āḍhyo mām, hmm? "I am the richest man. I am the most aristocratic.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They are no ordinary person.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet sometimes they behave in such a way that is...
Prabhupāda: That is... After all, they are living entity, conditioned. They are also conditioned. They are not liberated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not pure devotees.
Prabhupāda: No. They want enjoyment, material.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still, they're entrusted with very big posts.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But Lord Brahmā, he's a prajāpati.
Prabhupāda: He is the chief prajāpati.
Jagadīśa: The men are behaving just like dogs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Today in the hotel where we went there was one barber shop. And the name of the barber shop was "The home of the dog."
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?
Brahmānanda: Well, the idea is that the haircuts of the men are so long, they look like...
Prabhupāda: Dog.
Prabhupāda: "I have great love and regard toward you and I desire to win and gain your love and friendship by a kind, just and peaceable life. And the people I send are of the same mind. And I shall in all things behave." And what about the shooting? (laughter) (break) ...shooting?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: It was a lie.
Kīrtanānanda: They made up a saying, "The only good Indian was a dead Indian." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...nation or... So? Dancing?
Jayatīrtha: But it says in the Declaration of Independence—this is part of it here—it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." So they admitted that there was God.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly, we were discussing with the Balavanta Prabhu one day about the... He was giving a nice example that in a kingdom where the king stays... Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda's example: living in an apartment. Śrīla Prabhupāda and disciples and many other living entities stay in the same apartment, but a person, an individual, who knows his position, is to serve the order of the head of the apartment. But somebody doesn't follow. He just goes away from the apartment. So Balavanta was asking what is the use of that? So similarly, when the cells... We can take out from one part of the body and can culture it, but what is the use? It produces, but actually it's not really behaving as it should. It has no value.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are just like machine parts. Parts and parcels, they are helping the whole machine work.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Because they feel that they can study the behavior of rats and pigeons very easily, much more easily than a human being. They can manipulate them. And then they extrapolate from their data on the rats and pigeons as to what human behavior is.
Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?
Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.
Dharmādhyakṣa: No, the modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you give life to the flesh and blood?
Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a problem.
Prabhupāda: Then it is foolishness.
Dr. Patel: The behavior of the sūkṣma-śarīra is more important than the sthūla.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is... The example is given that Ganges water, even it is superficially... There are floating stool and foams...
Dr. Patel: Dead bodies also.
Prabhupāda: So this stool and foam does not pollute the Ganges water. You set it aside and take your dip. That example is given that. External feature does not pollute the soul. Asaṅgo 'ya hi puruṣaḥ. The puruṣa... it is simply our abhiniveṣa. Abhiniveṣa is dangerous. Otherwise the soul has nothing to do with this body.
Dr. Patel: That's right. No, soul is separate from all the three bodies.
Prabhupāda: Exactly like that: one is on the motorcar. He has nothing to do with the motorcar, but if he thinks, "My car is life.
Prabhupāda: Hindi. (Hindi) You read it thoroughly and you explain it either in English or Hindi, as you think befitting to your friends. So we have got so many literatures in French language. We are also asking some men from Europe. That will create some impression. Yes. White elephant. (laughter) Dancing. Everyone will purchase ticket. Yes. (Hindi) Bring some white elephant. So literature is there. But one thing is that you must be placed in sadācāra, well behaved. So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong.
Prabhupāda: And gradually, when you are well behaving, then you shall be initiated to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That will give you strength, spiritual power. Strictly observe the regulative principles—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. It is very simple. Read these literatures, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and observe these regulations. Then you will become gradually powerful. Your speeches will be effective. People will like you.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Now the program in the village, Swamijī, how to...
Prabhupāda: Village... Just like you acquire some land. That you will get. It is not very... Is it difficult?
Guest (2): No, sir.
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure.
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure. To become pure is not at all difficult. Rather, to become impure, it is difficult. But people, with all difficulties, they are becoming impure. Otherwise the idea which I am giving, you can start anywhere, anywhere, any part of the world. It doesn't matter. Locally you produce your own food. You get your own cloth. Have sufficient milk, vegetables. Then what you want more? And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is Vedic civilization: plain living, high thinking. And poor thinking, poor in thought, poor in behavior, and living with motorcar and this, that, nonsense. It is all nonsense civilization.
Indian man (1): How does he behave?
Prabhupāda: Busy intelligent means at least whatever he is doing, there is some meaning, busy intelligent. And lazy intelligent means he is doing higher things. Lazy intelligent means brāhmaṇa, and busy intelligent means kṣatriya. So the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). The society should be divided into four classes. The śūdras, they are busy fools. Therefore they are to be guided. They are to be guided. If there are, hundred workers are there, then one leader must be there to give the direction: "Why you are doing this? Why you don't do this?" Otherwise he'll create havoc. Busy fool. So the whole world is full of busy fools. That's all. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that for brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva... (BG 18.42). There is no recommendation that "You work hard day and night." The brahminical qualification is controlling the senses, controlling the mind, truthful, clean, knows everything nicely, practical application of the knowledge, full faith in śāstra and Bhagavān. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam.
Prabhupāda: You become an example by your behavior. Example is better than precept. (break)
Jñāna: ...to attain the necessary finances to support the programs here.
Prabhupāda: Beg. Sell book. That's all. Otherwise how you get finance?
Jñāna: One idea is to have a farm that we sell fruit or vegetables, like that.
Prabhupāda: If you open farm for financial help, then it will not be successful. You should take to farming for supporting yourself. That's all. Grow your own food. Grow your own cloth. There is no need of financial help from outside. You get your food grains sufficiently, rice, dahl, wheat, vegetables, milk, sugar. Bas You get everything. From these five, six items you should be economically free. That you have to do, not for trade to get money. Then it will be failure.
Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks that he is superior than everyone.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this year, because of the emergency, everyone is behaving all right. They're scared to do anything.
Prabhupāda: How by emergency you can make people honest?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This house belongs to the (name withheld).
Tejās: This belongs to (name withheld)?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got three, four houses like that, separate, I saw, and whole day-two hours here, two hours there, two hours there.
Tejās: He had seven wives.
Prabhupāda: Seven?
Prabhupāda: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmeṇa yena pasave samānaḥ. They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nations, this, that.
Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It's committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations.
Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?
Prabhupāda: Hindu-Muslim teaching.
Prabhupāda: But who will live? Everyone will die.
Dr. Patel: Everyone will die, that's right. These people, they behave as if they are living permanently. Then they are doing a bad thing, they think that they are...
Prabhupāda: So we have to tolerate. There is no other way.
Dr. Patel: That we are doing.
Prabhupāda: Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. They come and go. You have to do your business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people will come and go. Place everything at the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: (Patel and friend talk in Hindi aside) I don't drink. I hardly, I hardly go out one evening now.
Man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm? So what about this land we have given? Where is Saurabha? He is not coming? What about this land we have given for road?
Prabhupāda: That is our mission. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu. First of all you behave yourself, then teach. Without being accomplished in your life, don't teach. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement was that. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu.
Dr. Patel: You teach by your action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...alpa citte bahu kori mane. This is the warning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, I mean teaching is that the Vaiṣṇavas should not see any faults in the sādhus or the sannyāsīs. Just look at the good side, then...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That, you may do that. But that is not a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī is smoking cigarette, drinking tea,...
Dr. Patel: Then they are not sannyāsīs. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). (Hindi about Pāgala Bāb in Vṛndāvana) Hm, who goes there? No gentleman goes there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know how to remain in Brahman. No, they do not know; therefore we say rascal. You realize that you are Brahman; now your next business is to stay in Brahman. That they do not know.
Dr. Patel: Behave as Brahman. They don't behave.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Either behave or stay, the same thing. Unless you become fire, you cannot stay in fire.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: So these people, they realize arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). By severe austerity and penances they rise to the Brahman platform, but from there they fall down. Why? Adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because brahmam platform means to be engaged in devotional service. Brahma bhūyāya kalpate. Mām ca yo'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). If you want to stay on the Brahmam platform, then you must render service to Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," then you'll be misguided by māyā: "Oh, you are the Supreme Lord. You are Bhagavān. What is the use of worshiping another Bhagavān? You are Bhagavān." māyā says it in a different way. māyā says that you are a rascal, but think that you are Bhagavān.
Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of the things when he comes out. (laughs) He behaves so naughtily like that. (Hindi with one man) Sir, shall we go this way, if you don't mind?
Prabhupāda: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?
Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...doing there, these slums?
Dr. Patel: God only knows. They have behaved so very badly, be three of us. And you were not sleeping even, because I wanted to give you the prescription, so I ran from my house.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Haṁsadūta: No, I was not...
Dr. Patel: No, you were not.
Hariśauri: No, I was there. You had just taken rest in the bedroom, so I thought it best not to disturb you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I was taking rest.
Dr. Patel: I wrote out the prescription and gave it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I got that. Huh.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?
Indian man (1): Six-thirty.
Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: So is it necessary to be fixed up to take sannyāsa, or one should take sannyāsa to become fixed up?
Prabhupāda: To become fixed, become sannyāsī, the other three processes are there, to become brahmacārī, to become gṛhastha, to become vānaprastha, stage by stage. But if one is able, he can take sannyāsa. The stages are there, but if one is very competent, he can be given sannyāsa. And that competency is also very simple. If you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can immediately become competent. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as you fully engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately you become more than a sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā, this faith, means so strong faith that one will know it perfectly well that simply by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is there. That is the beginning of faith. Otherwise there is no faith. And without faith there is no beginning. Ādau śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). If you have got that firm faith, then next stage is to live with, to deal with devotees. Then the faith will increase because by seeing their behavior your faith will be increased. Then bhajana kriya. Wherefrom this shenai was...?
Sudāmā: Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Sudama: Originally he came from the Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple, Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Encouraging means your behavior should be so nice that he voluntarily gives. That is encouraging, not that begging and "Put something here. My belly is empty." (laughter) ...that is nice, that "Here is an institution. You kindly become a member. Help us." That is another thing. But why should you earn by showing the Deity? You work so nicely they will become voluntarily member, contributing. That is nice. But not that "Now we have got Deity. He's starving. Please give me something." No. That is not good prac...
Pañcadraviḍa: You showed the example when you came to New York. You were cooking capatis and everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise who would cook at that time? (break) ...apartment. So I was cooking, and he liked. He thought that "Without any payment, I have got a cook."
Prabhupāda: This is my answer. Thousands of them are working here on my behalf. Just see their character and behavior.
Reporter (4): Swamiji, may I say something? A magician can create many charismas. But God also create charismas. Who will you compare? The magician charismas or the God's charisma? This is the difference. A magician can also sometimes impress upon people that he has godly powers, but are they the real godly powers as against real godly powers? This is the difference. I have been at least thirty times to America, talked to lot of people. They say if you want to go really for attainment of your soul, you go to ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: Even Mahesh Yogi says. Yes.
Reporter (4): And if you want to attain your bodily strength...
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. One of his secretaries came to us. One of his secretaries, he asked that "I want real knowledge of God." He said, "Then you go to ISKCON."
Hari-śauri: They haven't yet understood that the supply will be restricted if they don't behave.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be. That.... They must wait for the day.
Devotee (5): They call that the energy crisis.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (5): They call that the energy crisis.
Prabhupāda: There will be crisis, and they will suffer. That's all. Call, whatever by name, there will be crisis. Nature is the mother, God is the father, and you are children. Everyone knows that
"My existence depends on my father and mother. Without father and mother I could not have seen this world." Now how one can deny father and mother?
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I remember in Atlanta last year when an Indian Ph.D. came to see you and was sitting at your lotus feet, and he spoke about the problems in India, overpopulation and hunger, and then he said to you, "Swamiji, you must always realize the realities." And you said to him, "You don't know the reality." And he did not answer one word. He is now always coming to the temple, although he is working with the monkeys on behavior study. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So anyone has any objection to this statement?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was thinking that Kṛṣṇa also says that aghāyur indriyārāmo moghaṁ pārtha sa jīvati. This is useless, spending your time in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, aghāyur indriyārāmo.
Jayādvaita: The only place I found some difficulty is that sometimes if there is some discrepancy in behavior of our students, some petty stealing or something like that, then that is...
Prabhupāda: That you have to train our men so that they may be well behaved.
Jayādvaita: In Laguna Beach we had so many complaints, that they were trying to stop the temple. And their main complaint was that the devotees were taking flowers from people's gardens and without any permission, without any, simply taking. And just on that account they wanted to stop us. Some petty stealing, fifty dollars worth of flowers.
Prabhupāda: So why our devotees should take flowers from them? Stop it.
Prabhupāda: There must be practice, that we are teaching. That simply not theoretical, but practical. Here in our institute, we teach all the students practically how to become God conscious. Theoretical knowledge will not help us. There must be practical behavior. They are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārati, then having class, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chanting, in this way, twenty-four hours engaged. It is not fifteen minutes recreation. No. Twenty-four hours program.
George Gullen: I think this is good for the world. I think the world needs it very much so.
Prabhupāda: So we are trying, although we are not supported by any government, we are trying in our own way. Own way.... The way is standard, but unfortunately people have lost interest in these things. Animal life. As soon as we forget our interest in spiritual life, then immediately we're animals.
Prabhupāda: No, we want to, what is called, reject that society. We cannot become sympathetic with everyone. That is not our policy. Asat-saṅga-tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was asked what is the general behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He said that the first thing is that you should give up bad company. So these are bad company. We cannot have any sympathy. We cannot make any compromise with everyone. That is not possible. The modern scientists, they have made quarantine? Quarantine? What is that?
Hari-śauri: Separation.
Prabhupāda: Hah.
Hari-śauri: If someone has a disease, they separate.
Prabhupāda: Those who are infected, they should be separated. You cannot make any compromise.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. (break) ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu, the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject. (break)
Jagadīśa: ...professor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, named Motilal, is a Bengali Vaiṣṇava. But now he drinks and eats meat. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...objection of Professor O'Connell?
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. (Hindi) Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I'm the servant, servant, servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." And these rascals are learning how to become Kṛṣṇa. Just see, it is impossible. (laughs) But they will try for it. (Hindi)
Indian man (4): Only one thing I just want to clarify, that under human behavior towards the society, honest behavior toward the society, to help the people, to help the neighbors and like that, try to help...
Prabhupāda: First of all, tell me, what is your power to help? You are poor yourself. What you can help? Then why you are talking all...
Indian man (4): No, prabhu, supposing if we see...
Prabhupāda: You cannot help. First of all, you cannot help.
Indian man (4): Right.
Prabhupāda: If you can help, you can simply repeat the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you have no power to help. It is all concoction. Vivekananda, for the last hundred years-daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. He could not do anything. First of all you must know that you have no capacity to help.
Indian man (4): No, but prabhu, how far is it fair that if one is religious, say chanting and regulations and everything he is doing, and on the other hand, he doesn't behave as a good honest labor...
Prabhupāda: That good honest..., you have got some idea of good honest. But because he's chanting, he's all good.
Devotees: Jaya.
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, because he's chanting, sometimes a person get very false ego, that he has become a very big devotee, he's serving the Lord, and he tries to...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, he's on the line of goodness. But those who are not chanting, they're all bad. Do you understand it or not? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. One who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualification. You may propose that "I am so much good, I am this, I am that," but it is all bogus thing. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12).
Prabhupāda: The purport is that in the Kali-yuga, the government men, they will be all rogues and thieves. So the citizens also follow them. Tan-nethe, śīlācārya. Śīlācārya is their behavior. The politicians, secretaries and big, big officers going to the brothels and drinking wine and enjoying, then what others will not? They will... Go on, second chapter.
Pradyumna:
- tataś cānu-dinaṁ dharmaḥ
- satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā
- kālena balinā rājan
- naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ
Prabhupāda: Note?
Pradyumna: Kali-dharmān prapañcayati-tataś cetyādinā.
Prabhupāda: That's all?
Pradyumna: Yes. He doesn't say.
Prabhupāda: How things will deteriorate, that is explained here. Tataś cānu-dinam?
"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them." Purport. "In every civilized human society there is some set of scriptural rules and regulations which are followed from the beginning, especially among the Aryans, those who adopt the Vedic civilization and who are known as the most advanced civilized peoples. Those who do not follow the scriptural injunctions are supposed to be demons. Therefore it is stated here that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, nor do they have any inclination to follow them. Most of them do not know them, and even if some of them know, they have not the tendency to follow them. They have no faith, nor are they willing to act in terms of Vedic injunctions. The demons are not clean either externally or internally. One should always be very careful to keep his body clean by bathing, brushing teeth, changing clothes, etc.
Prabhupāda: As far as internal cleanliness is concerned, one should always remember the holy names of God and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The demons neither like nor follow all these rules for external and internal cleanliness. As for behavior, there are many rules and regulations guiding human behavior, such as the Manu-saṁhitā, which is the lawbook of the human race. Even up to today those who are Hindu follow the Manu-saṁhitā. Laws of inheritance and other legalities are derived from this book. Now, in the Manu-saṁhitā it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However this has not improved the social condition of the world.
Prabhupāda: However this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by her father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grown-up sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-saṁhitā. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed-up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of woman very good now. The demons, therefore, do not accept any instruction which is good for society, and because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable."
Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.
Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior.
Prabhupāda: Why do you speak all other nonsense things? You immediately become the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa. And if you manufacture, then you are a rascal. Why shall I accept a rascal? We shall accept the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa as guru. That is wanted. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, when He was asked by a gṛhastha devotee what should be the behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He immediately said asat-saṅga tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava ācāra: (CC Madhya 22.87) "Give up the company of all rascals, asat." Asat means those who are rascals. That is Vaiṣṇava. Do not mix with all rascals, asat. Now how shall I know who is rascal and who is not a (rascal)? Asat eka 'strī-saṅgī—-eka asādhu, kṛṣṇa-bhakta āra. One who is too much attached with woman, he is rascal. Another rascal, who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So we have got everything test tube. Put the test tube and you understand. If one is strī-saṅgī... Strī-saṅgī means not only the man, the man or woman, one who are very much sexually attached, he is a rascal. One should give up his company. And another rascal who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all, finished.
Prabhupāda: "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru?
Prabhupāda: The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and what is called? Word? Just like vāco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvar... If you talk, you must talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is tapasya. "Śāstra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Kṛṣṇa." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?
Kulādri: We had one priest who came. He was discussing with Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. He did not know what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he said he loved God.
Prabhupāda: Then? What kind of love it is?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that differentiates also the simple matter without life. For example, sometimes it has been asked whether a crystal is alive or not. This is confusing to the scientists. Sometimes they say that a crystal is behaving just like a living body, it grows and this and that, they say. But actually there is no flow of matter. That tells us that crystal is not life. There's a fundamental difference. The last point in this connection is that matter is impersonal and life has personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that implies that matter is unconscious and the life is fully conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, everywhere there is mixture. Otherwise, how it comes to 8,000,000? There is mixture. But this is the general division. Now you cannot make how much passion, how much goodness is there. That you can understand from the behavior. But this is general division. We can speak of general division. The minute division is made by nature. That nature's study, one who can study nature, then he can do that.
Rūpānuga: That means to study the activity, psychology of the...
Prabhupāda: So all the qualities are working, mixed up practically. But prominently like this. Here you cannot have any quality completely of that quality. Other qualities are there, but prominently that particular... Just like demigods. They also become sometimes passionate, sometimes ignorant. So in this material world it is very difficult to find out pure modes of nature in anything.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'd like actually to bring out very clearly why the swan is different from a crow. What is it. What makes it different. Why a swan behaves this way and a crow behaves this way.
Prabhupāda: According to combination of these modes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring out, that modes of nature, that can explain so many things so nicely, the difference, but science has no background on that.
Prabhupāda: That means you have to analyze different bodies. But that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which apartment is better than the other apartment, there is description. Just like a dog's body is so made that two furlongs away some newcomer is coming, immediately he will bark, he can immediately understand, perceive. He can smell that "Somebody is coming who is not known to me." Is it not? So he has got that special quality. Even in animals we will find. A fish in the water, two miles away there is some enemy, they can understand by touch.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that asat-saṅga tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. The Vaiṣṇava's behavior is to give up bad company. Who is bad? Next question will be that "I have to give up the bad company. Who is bad?" Then He says, next line: asat stri saṅgī 'kṛṣṇabhakta' āra. Two words. Those who are too much attached to woman and those who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they are bad. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says give up the company of these two bad men, that's all. That is Vaiṣṇava. So everything is there. If you simply follow with sincerity, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. As Arjuna says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)." That's all. He becomes perfect. And Kṛṣṇa immediately accepts, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). He becomes immediately recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Priya-kṛttamaḥ, superlative. Priya-kṛt, priya-kṛtara, priya-kṛttamaḥ. So let us follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect. That is a fact. Don't divert your attention here and there.
Prabhupāda: That we have to test, whether I can surrender to him. That we have to behave with him. Therefore according to system, one has to study that "Whether I can surrender to him?" If you think that "No, I know better than him," don't accept a formal guru. That is mistake. And guru also will see, "He's appealing to me, he is going to accept my discipleship, let me see whether he is qualified." Then there should be guru and śiṣya, not that as a fashion. Like Arjuna, Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru after talking with Him. Find out that verse, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.
Guest (3): Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.
Prabhupāda: When he was convinced that "I do not find anyone else to give me instruction," then he surrendered.
Prabhupāda: So generally, food grains, vegetables, they are recommended for eating purpose. And those who want to eat meat or fish, they can do so, but at least they can avoid the important life of cow. That is recommended. So far we are concerned, we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and this, there is no such thing as meat or fish, or egg, but we are living. Not that because we do not eat meat or fish, we are dying. We can eat very easily. Anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Actually, if we take food grains like wheat, rice, pulses, vegetables, fruits, milk, that is quite sufficient, nutritious foodstuff, full with vitamins and, what is called, protein, carbohydrate. That is sufficient. Why should we kill? At least, cow? That is our request, because Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. And in His practical life He played as a cowherd boy giving protection to other cows. There is a picture, Kṛṣṇa is sitting, and the cow and the calf is feeling very safety. Kṛṣṇa is embracing. So because we want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, we want to follow His personal behavior and instruction.
Prabhupāda: No, killing or not killing, that is another point. You can kill your own son. They are killing, actually. That is another point. But they have got soul. All the symptoms are there; how you can say there is no soul? Where is the difference between man's behavior and animal's behavior? So far eating, sleeping, sex, defense is concerned, the same thing. How do you say that it is different from the human being? Why they differentiate the animal from the man? What is the main point?
Sadāpūta: I think that scientifically that was just Christian doctrine that made them do that. Because the scientists turned around...
Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.
Rūpānuga: They may agree, but they'll say that this.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somebody asked that "I love my dog. Looks like the dog comes when I call and behaves very nicely." So this question was asking that the dog might have soul. So he asked Billy Graham, "What do you think?" So Billy Graham was saying, "No, dog has no soul."
Prabhupāda: This is dogmatic. This is not scientific; it is dogmatic.
Rūpānuga: He could not support his statements.
Prabhupāda: So dogmatic, you can say any nonsense, but philosophy and science is different. If he's talking on dogmatic platform, then what is his value? What does he mean by "soul is there" and "soul is not there"? How does he prove?
Prabhupāda: So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being propagated that these dull-headed mūḍha—they are being described as mūḍha, dull-headed; they do not know actual interest of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These dull-headed conditioned souls, they do not know their real self-interest, being influenced by māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, so it is her duty to punish the conditioned soul because they have decided to forget Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He comes personally, He authorizes His devotees, servants, to enlighten these conditioned souls. Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an humble attempt to raise the standard of these conditioned souls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are engaged in this business, they should personally behave as devotee, and by their example they should teach others and elevate them from this gross ignorance of materialistic life. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Mahārāja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. In India?
Rāmeśvara: Especially in America.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In America.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we see from the behavior of the Gosvāmīs. They practically had no material necessities. This eating, sleeping, mating and defending, practically they had no such thing. They are simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business.
Interviewer: Engaged in Kṛṣṇa's...?
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's business or God's service.
Bali-mardana: He's setting the example of the previous spiritual masters.
Interviewer: Well, what I was interested in is why... Has he found that three to four hours is the necessary time period to sleep?
Bali-mardana: She's asking why is three to four hours the amount that you sleep. How have you reached that standard?
Prabhupāda: That is not artificially. The more you are engaged in spiritual activities, the more you become free from material activities. That is the test.
Prabhupāda: It is internal but externally... Just like externally, behavior makes internal inclinations. If you associate with some bad company, the internally also you develop bad propensities. And if you associate with good company, then internally you develop good propensities. So internally, externally, they are interrelated. By external behavior we influence our internal energy. And by internal atmosphere we get the external body.
Interviewer: I'm trying to find out whether the consciousness lies within us, brought out...
Prabhupāda: Yes, consciousness... Consciousness will be... Because... Just like sunshine and the sun. Similarly, the soul means consciousness. It is just like sunshine. The soul is very small particle, but it is shining as consciousness.
Prabhupāda: "A brahmacārī should be quite well behaved and gentle and should not eat or collect more than necessary. He must always be active and expert, fully believing in the instructions of the spiritual master and the sastra. Fully controlling his senses, he should associate only as much as necessary with women or those controlled by women."
- varjayet pramadā-gāthām
- agṛhastho bṛhad-vrataḥ
- indriyāṇi pramāthīni
- haranty api yater manaḥ
"A brahmacārī, or one who has not accepted the grhastha āśrama (family life), must rigidly avoid talking with women or about women, for the senses are so powerful that they may agitate even the mind of a sannyāsī, a member of the renounced order of life."
Prabhupāda: Don't bring Christian scripture now. Simply you just try to understand, that animal eats, you eat, and the animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have got sex. He also defends when he's attacked, you also defend. Then if the behavior of a living being is the same, how do you say that the animal has no soul? Why do you say like that? Irresponsibly?
Mike Robinson: I see what you're getting at, but is that also...
Prabhupāda: What is your answer, first of all?
Mike Robinson: Well, my...
Prabhupāda: Apart from your believing as Christian. As we are talking, as a scientist, how do you deny this animal has no soul?
Mike Robinson: But ultimately you're basing all your faith factually, aren't you, on your reasoning?
Prabhupāda: "Who preaches this gospel of Bhagavad-gītā among My devotees." So the guru has got two business. He has to make devotees and teach them the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore he's so dear. Not that he has become God, not Māyāvādī philosophy. He's living entity, but because he acts very confidentially on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, therefore he's as good as God. This is bhakti. Not the Māyāvādī philosophy that guru has become God. Guru as God, not become. He's servant-God. And Kṛṣṇa is master-God. So the success is that both the Gods, when one is accepted by both the Gods, then his life is success. Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Therefore one has to fix his faith staunchly in the bona fide guru. So if one has got bona fide guru, and if he follows that bona fide guru, then his life is success. This is the process. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. So Gurukula means to teach how to become very, very faithful, cent percent faithful, to the bona fide guru. That is Gurukula. So you have to teach like that. By behavior, by life, by action. That is Gurukula. This sum and substance of... Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam. Where is that?
Prabhupāda: "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.
Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, during British time, people were happy, that I can... The thing is that Britishers were little afraid that "If the government is not good, it will go against our credit, that we may agitate." So they were careful to see that people are happy. But here nobody's careful. Everyone thinks "I'm in my own country. Whatever I do, it is all right." They were conscious, that "We are foreigners. If the management is not good, then it will go against our credit and it will be difficult working such a big England empire." So they were little careful. But these rascals are not... Just like the governor, he was friendly, but what is the report? Did he say? Did not behave very nicely?
Harikeśa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.
Hari-śauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."
Prabhupāda: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.
Translator: He says this brings to mind a question to him, that now that he has received Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he would like to know from you how he should behave in his normal life, because he'll be living very far from the temple. He's two thousand kilometers away from us, and he wants to know how his life should be conducted now that he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Ninth Chapter. The whole Bhagavad-gītā he has to study, he'll understand. Especially in the Ninth Chapter. Beginning from Seventh to... All the chapters, especially Seventh to Twelfth chapter. He can open that Bhagavad-gītā Seventh Chapter. French.
Translator: This is French, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Read it.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Still, even without language, without talking, if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone will follow. And give them prasādam, they will take. And that will be good preaching. It doesn't require language or anything. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them nice prasāda. They will take. That will be good preaching. But who is chanting, he must be a sincere devotee. Then his chanting will be effective. A gramophone machine will not do. He must be realized, then his chanting will be effective. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). He must behave just like a pure Vaiṣṇava. Then if he chants, his chanting will be effective. Just like electricity. If I am surcharged with electricity, I touch, you also become electric. And if he touches, he'll become. But if one is not in touch with electricity, then it will not act. So one must be electrified.
Prabhupāda: That is by your behavior, not by showing the film.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: One of the points, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you're making, if I understand correctly, is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like gold, like diamond. If somebody's sincere, they will come. When they are selling cigarettes or Negroes or cars, they make films. But with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have the books, which are paramparā. And we have ourselves as examples. If we can be paramparā and we can be good examples...
Prabhupāda: That is my opinion, that instead of spending so much money for films, if you spend some money for propagation of book distribution... Any advertisement is good, it never goes in vain, but the film advertisement is very expensive. Very, very expensive.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is by your preaching. That we have to do. We are doing that. That I have given the example, Nityānanda Prabhu, He faced rebellion, and by His power converted the Jagāi-Mādhāi. By chanting. They injured, Jagāi-Mādhāi injured, and Nityānanda Prabhu said, "Never mind you have injured Me, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is not advertisement, that is personal behavior.
Jñānagamya: In Dallas where I was there's a town next door, Ft. Worth, there are many rich Baptists, Fort Worth. They have big studio for producing many different films, television shows.
Prabhupāda: These Christian people, they have got money, and still the churches are being closed. What is the effect?
Jñānagamya: They have no potency to their message. It's not the medium, it's their message.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, by their advertisement, the effect is the church is being closed. Eh? Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Then you are animal, because animal has no rationality. Then you are animal. Better not to talk with you. What is the use of talking with you? You are animal. You have no rationality. Man is rational animal, this is the definition. You have no rationality, therefore you are animal. What is the use of talking with you? Waste time. If you have no rationality, then you are animal. That is the difficulty. People are kept in the status of animal and they are expected human behavior. How it is possible? It is not possible. So therefore our endeavor is to bring them to the standard of humanity, real humanity. Then there will be peace, prosperity, everything all right. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You don't care for rationality, that means you are animal. Man is rational animal, that is the definition. If you have no rationality... Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ... This is Vedic injunction. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna. Anyone who has no religious principles, he's animal. Therefore you'll find in human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Iran or India or Europe, there is some religion. Because without religion they are animals. Animal has no religion. The animal is... Dog is dog. It is not a Christian dog or a Hindu dog.
Prabhupāda: He has got little practice of these nonsense things. But if he sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be stopped very soon. That is the only remedy. So a devotee means he has taken vow before the spiritual master, before the fire, before... If he sticks to his principle, then he's free. Even though some bad habits found due to his past behavior. That will be stopped. But he must stick. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. That must stick. Kṛṣṇa consciousness must continue. Everything will be corrected. And if there is slackness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then again he'll fall down. That I was telling this morning, that if you have determination, māyā will put forward so many impediments, and with all sufferings, if he remains determined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is success. A man is habituated to smoke. He has given up, has promised no more smoking. Just like our students. Now he's put amongst some friends, they are smoking. But he has bad habit, he's thinking, "Why not smoke?" And if the friends offer, "It is friends. Who is going to see, your spiritual master." "Yes." That is possible. But if he comes to his sense again, "Oh, what I have done?"
Yaśomatīnandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Philosophy is there but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Kṛṣṇa People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Kṛṣṇa consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.
Guest (1): For the students it is good idea.
Yaśomatīnandana: For everyone. I mean...
Prabhupāda: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the cause we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth books daily. They understand it is not so-called religious sentiment, it is science. Our so-called swamis and yogis, they never tried. They did not know. Also big, big swamis, they went there. Instead of teaching them, he was taught how to eat meat. Sannyāsī eating meat. He was convinced, "Yes, why not?" At least, in India still, the sannyāsīs they do not eat meat. Except that rascal missionary. No one. There may be difference of opinion, Māyāvādīs. But their behavior is the same.
Indian man: Sadācāra.
Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is there. But these people, asadācārī, and passing as sannyāsī. Cigarette, meat-eating and everything, drinking. We are asking common men to give it up, and they say, "Oh, what is the wrong there?" They do not know what is the wrong there. This time in Iran we initiated some Iranian. Some Afghans also coming.
Prabhupāda: Delay? But that's a fact. Unless government gives us land... (break) ...but we... We are not Kṛṣṇa. But if we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious Vaiṣṇavas, then our position is strong, If there is slackness, then they will come to kill us. That we have to see. Āpani ācari' prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Our behavior should be very clear. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." Then it will be... This Aghāsura, Bakāsura, will come and... In the beginning there was Aghāsura, Pūtanā. That Devānanda, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Film," he wanted to do some harm. And he is gone, finished. Nobody talks of Devānanda. They talk of our movement. So if you remain strong in your spiritual activities, these Aghāsura, Bakāsura will come, go. But we should take precaution and counteract to reduce them. Real strength will remain from Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma's strength. Balarāma. Balarāma means strength. Nāyam ātmā bala hīna na labhyaḥ.(?) If you are not supported by Balarāma, then it is not possible. So we have got our Balarāma, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple. Now in Europe we have got Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Yaśodānandana: Personally I had that boy with me for two months when I went to South India, preaching, and I thought it would be an asset to have a young boy, but he was so misbehaved that it was too much problem. And the same things that he was doing, in the beginning with me, telling lies and misbehaving, he is still doing now and he does not correct himself never. He has no effort to better his behavior or his conduct. He does not chant his rounds. He rarely comes to the kīrtana, or else when he comes to the kīrtana, he does not chant. He simply plays and makes fun. And it's very... He has a very bad influence on the other boys.
Prabhupāda: No, then he should be sent back. Or he can be sent to Bombay to work ordinarily. Or Hyderabad farm. Like that. Let him work on the ground.
Yaśodānandana: He speaks Bengali. That boy was in Bengal before and he picked up Bengali.
Prabhupāda: So he can go.
Prabhupāda: The Chinese people, they eat dogs. So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother? You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence. But they do not know because uncivilized. Foolish fourth-class men. So we are trying to bring them to become first-class men, and they are accusing of brainwash. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." We are teaching that "These boys, they are becoming first-class." Anyone will worship them. How nice they look, how behavior, how their character. We are creating this, and they are accusing, "Oh, they are kidnapping our children." Why you are going? Eh? Why you are going?
Akṣayānanda: And they see that people are giving us money too. (Prabhupāda laughs) Actually wherever we go, with a few exceptions, wherever we go, after the third day we just suddenly become unwelcome even though we behave all right. The third day is about the limit.
Mahākṣa: The one exception is this Gita Bhavan in Indore.
Akṣayānanda: There are a few exceptions.
Mahākṣa: They were nice to us there.
Prabhupāda: They are nice. Once I had been there.
Mahākṣa: Yes, they told me you had been there. That is why they are nice to us. Wherever you have been there has been some change of heart. In Indore there is some definite effect from that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana. This is king's duty, to see that they are acting according to śāstra. But there is no such king. So everyone is acting whimsically, whatever he likes, and the so-called swamis are preaching, "No, no, whatever you like, that's all right. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever you like. You think yourself that you are God. That's all right." This is going on. By thinking himself that he's God, he becomes God. This is going on, so many meditations: "I am moving the sun, I am moving the Moon, I am moving... mo mo mo mo." (laughter) And rascals are following them.
Prabhupāda: So what is the purport?
Indian man: (laughs) I don't know. But to learn all these etiquettes of methods when you are in a sabhā (indistinct) these cabarets and all the... That type of cabaret, how you should behave?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We will leave at 7:25, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What is the time?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen, twenty minutes.
Prabhupāda: What will be about the light?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are fixing it up now. I don't know why it goes out. I've told the construction department to look into it, to fix it. I don't know why it goes out again.
Prabhupāda: In our area only?
Prabhupāda: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dullheaded rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dullheaded. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. (Hindi) That is especially mentioned. That ayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. (Hindi) Sex. No discrimination. (Hindi) Sex is a bodily, what is the...
Guest (1): Necessity of life.
Dr. Patel: Biological necessity.
Prabhupāda: Necessity. What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there? They say like that?
Prabhupāda: ...so glorious. Glorious. He's glorious. That's all right. But kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will imitate his behavior, but he is not fixed up. Therefore it is not good for him. He is forbidden. This is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's forbidden to hear from a nondevotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will commit so many mistakes and they'll take it for granted. Just like this "Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhe-Śyāma." That is avoided for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. There are so many mistakes, rasābhāsa. So two things are there always, two sides. One for the mahā-bhāgavata, one for the ordinary kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī. So in the temple it is to be supposed generally for the madhyama-adhikārī and kaniṣṭha-adhikārī especially. So in the temple we should not...
Hari-śauri: We should just listen to whatever the ācāryas have...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And when He learned that he has committed suicide, He did not regret. "Yes, this is the just punishment." You see how much strictly. (break) And He said, asat saṅga. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgaḥ. He said that.
- niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya
- pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya
- sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca
- hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu
- (CC Madhya 11.8)
He was very strict. So this is Vaiṣṇava behavior. Asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra, strī-saṅgī eka asādhu kṛṣṇābhakta āra... (CC Madhya 22.87). So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya is very rigid.
Prabhupāda: Just like our Nitāi. (chuckles) This is the difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu remained-guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: "My Guru Mahārāja has chastised Me because I am fool number one." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is fool? But He's showing the example that you should always remain...
Dr. Patel: The avatāras shall behave like common men. Otherwise they will not be... All avatāras behave like common men.
Prabhupāda: Our Guru Mahārāja, so strict... A little discrepancy, he would chastise like anything. But we liked it very much.
Indian (3): Guru's chastise is the mercy.
Prabhupāda: Śiṣyaṁ ca putraṁ ca tāḍayen na tu lālayet. That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction. "The sons and disciples should always be chastised. Never pat them."
Dr. Patel: Tāḍayet may be returned.
Prabhupāda: Tāḍayet means taraṇa, chastisement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen his picture.
Dr. Patel: His behavior was that of a sādhu.
Gurudāsa: Simple. He lived simply.
Dr. Patel: Not only simply, but he never worried much about things. When he was asked in Christian university how much money he would want paid when first migrated to America, he said, "What is the standard of living here?" (indistinct)
Trivikrama: But still, the tendency... Kali-yuga means their tendency is away from...
Dr. Patel: It is Kali-yuga for all of us, for the good and the bad.
Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga means mandāḥ. Mandāḥ-two meaning. One is "slow"; another meaning is "bad." So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). Four times this word used: mandāḥ, sumanda-matayo, manda-bhāgyā.
Prabhupāda: So the more they expose, the more implicated. (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: "Most people think of them, if at all, as loving, peaceful, prayerful children with strange customs and dress but low-key action and behavior."
Prabhupāda: What is that behavior, low...? Lowky?
Trivikrama: Low key.
Rāmeśvara: Means not violent.
Hari-śauri: Nice people.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Rāmeśvara: "But they do not know about their forceful, harassing solicitation..."
Prabhupāda: They know.
Prabhupāda: People misunderstand this Kṛṣṇa's behavior with Rādhārāṇī and the gopīs as ordinary woman-hunters.
Guest (2): No, no.
Prabhupāda: You say no, but they take it like that. Even a person like Vivekananda, he said long ago that "This Vaiṣṇavism is sex religion." They misunderstand. So just try to understand. This līlā is kept in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Tenth Canto, and middle of Tenth Canto, Thirty-fourth, Thirty-fifth Chapter. So one has to understand Kṛṣṇa first of all. So it is not for ordinary men. So we discourage these things to be discussed or presented even for ordinary men. This is our preaching. It cannot be taken as ordinary film show.
Guest (2): No, sir, he was taking it in different angle, that Kṛṣṇa was by these Vaiṣṇavas.
Hari-śauri: Says, "There is a distinction between Lord Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs and the ordinary dancing of living entities within the material world. In order to clear up further misconceptions about the rasa dance and the affairs of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the hearer of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, told Śukadeva Gosvāmī: 'Kṛṣṇa appeared on the earth to establish the regulative principles of religion and to curb the predominance of irreligion. But the behavior of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs might encourage irreligious principles in the material world. I am simply surprised that He would act in such a way and join the company of others' wives in the dead of night.' "
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Hari-śauri: "This statement of Parīkṣit Mahārāja's was very much appreciated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Māyāvādī impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Kṛṣṇa and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Kṛṣṇa's appreciation of the gopīs appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Mahārāja Parīkṣit understood the total situation from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise.
Prabhupāda: No, that is in lower class, not brāhmaṇas.
Gargamuni: Yes. No. They will not accept. But they can accept this movement.
Prabhupāda: This movement will accept because there is prasādam, teaching, and actual behavior, Vaiṣṇava.
Gargamuni: And they've been brought up in it thousands of years. They will accept it. "And it's coming from America. Therefore you should support it."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: I told him this. He was interested. He was. But he told me, "Under the present..." The CIA used to give money to certain groups to stop Communism, he said, but recently they have been under investigation for this, so he said it would be very dangerous for them to do such a thing now. But he said he would talk it over. Since then, though, I have not met him. This was at the time when we were called CIA in Calcutta, when it came in the papers. I went to them for advice because they also became very much upset because just before that, the Consulate with his wife came to Māyāpur and saw all of our activities.
Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.
Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.
Gurukṛpā: Yes.
Gargamuni: Yes, but how can a psychologist judge a religion? That's not his field. They have to bring in scholars whose field is religion.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Then those who are supporting us, our books, they are also.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have many witnesses.
Prabhupāda: They are also madmen.
Hari-śauri: So many big professors.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Well known for chivalrous behavior. Very gallant.
Prabhupāda: Hm. One of them must die. That is kṣatriya spirit. No compromise. And it will go on until one is dead. That is chivalry. Chivalry?
Hari-śauri: Chivalry, yes.
Nanda-kumāra: Some of our devotees have got that spirit, some of our men. Keśava has sometimes taken ten men at a time. Once in San Francisco at Ratha-yātrā some men were attacking the Deity, throwing rocks.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? When?
Nanda-kumāra: Keśava was picking... In San Francisco about four years back.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: (sarcastically) Very good associates. That is his associate. He may not be very... No, everyone is not openly envious, everyone, but we can understand by behavior. Nobody is openly envious.
Satsvarūpa: Just by keeping apart, he..., that..., he shows there's some enviousness. (long pause)
Prabhupāda: Where is my cap?
Satsvarūpa: (aside:) Maybe he had it.
Prabhupāda: So socks will be required? (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they have no... Their philosophy has no real basis.
Prabhupāda: That cannot appeal to the higher educated person.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:There's nothing to it. Not giving knowledge of God.
Prabhupāda: And their behavior.
Prabhupāda: Homosex, what is that religion? And they're passing to homosex, religion. They're getting married man to man. Most degraded.
Hari-śauri: There's no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: ...except he's dressed as a priest.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Dress only.
Hari-śauri: But they have exactly the same mentality.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business.
Hari-śauri: It's simply a way of making a livelihood.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Here also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.
Prabhupāda: Then? This is a verse. They do not know what is the aim of life.
Hari-śauri: "Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them." All liars and cheats.
Prabhupāda: This is demon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're filthy. That's for sure. They are filthy. They have no idea of... In New York you can see that. They smell nasty. They keep on their shoes. You have to tell them to take... They never wash after eating. Even animals wash. At least they try to keep clean.
Prabhupāda: Read.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. People like ācāra, behavior. That is main thing. And nobody wants to check you, whether you know Bengali or Hindi. They see the person, that "Here is a Vaiṣṇava." Oh, then it is all right.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, tomorrow's program...
Prabhupāda: Hm. So Acyutānanda has come. You all sannyāsīs may, one or two, remain here. And kīrtana party-Acyutānanda, he has got minibus.
Bhavānanda: Yes, I was going to fill the bus and Your Divine Grace's car and one, Abhirāma's car. Jayapatākā Mahārāja is in Calcutta, and he's returning tomorrow morning, so he thought that he would stop in Chakdaha.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They will be very eager to hear from you Bengali. Yes. Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us so much opportunities. Utilize it. And be steady in your character, in your behavior, in our regulative principles. Then the spiritual strength will be there, and it will be... There is no doubt. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma-pracāra. You must draw the spiritual substance. That is unlimited. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam (BG 10.10). Immediately. He can make everything possible.
Girirāja: Mr. Rajda also mentioned that he wanted to visit the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Give him good reception.
Girirāja: Actually, I was thinking, after he comes on the 8th, he is going back again on the 14th.
Prabhupāda: Immediately inform Vṛndāvana, our Akṣayānanda, that this man should be very well received.
Prabhupāda: Now you try to manage the whole world organization and all GBC men. Suppose I am not there. Manage very nicely. Independently. Not to create havoc. But really to manage. I am still present; I will give you direction. Don't spoil it. We are in very good, prestigious position. That is sure. Don't spoil it. So much hard labor. I started with very humble condition. Now it has come to this, such exalted position. You don't spoil it. That is my request. Increase. That will depend on your character, behavior, preaching. Everyone knows. Everyone is astonished. Without any help, I started. Only asset was sincere... Everyone knows it. Otherwise how it is possible?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is our duty as your disciples to preserve everything that you've done. (someone brings in some prasādam—some Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Nim is good.
Prabhupāda: You have come. You are welcome here and take the blessings. But you won't come. When I say, "Come here and take the blessings," you won't come. What can I do? If one has fallen in the blind well—"Please get me up! Get me up!"—so I give him a rope: "Yes, catch it. I'll get you..." "No, no, I shall not catch." Without catching, there is no... So if you want to learn, come here. Stay. We shall teach you. That you won't do. Then how can I teach you? You learn from them. Just see these European and Americans, how they are... You have to learn from them by their behavior. These are American boys. Just see how they have tilaka, how they...
Indian man (3): No, Swamiji, we know Swamiji's tremendous work going on around the world.
Prabhupāda: So if I can teach them, who did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, I cannot teach you? I can teach you. But you won't take the teaching. That is the difficulty. Stubborn. That is difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Lower stage. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. What page I don't... Śikṣārtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kṛṣṇa. And that is vairāgya-vidyā, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave up His gṛhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairāgya-vidyā. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairāgya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I do.
Prabhupāda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gṛhastha, and enjoy gṛhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacārī and sannyāsī, our, mainly, not for gṛhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gṛhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife.
Prabhupāda: They distribute pills. I have seen the boys and girls dancing together, embracing, in the school film. That ruins the career. Both of them are ruined. That is very regrettable. Then you shall require this sterilization, pills, another big program. They are creating animal civilization, and when the animals are disturbing, they are trying to find out some other means. This is their program. First of all create animals. Then, when the animals behave like animals, then another program. Why do you create animal? Woman brahmacāriṇī, this is artificial.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our centers, though, there are so many brahmacāriṇīs, and even sometimes they're encouraged to remain brahmacāriṇī.
Prabhupāda: That they cannot. As soon as they will find opportunity, they will become vyabhicāriṇī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll become what?
Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.
Prabhupāda: As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then we can deliver them. They are, after all, simple. These negroes, they are, after all, simple. We have to claim them. You have got now experience in Detroit. They are very good-behaving negroes. They come to our temple. Nobody could drive there. Therefore we could acquire that house so cheap.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one on 26 Second Avenue must also be very cheap.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Ambarīṣa, he was very much eager. "Oh, don't mind. Take it. We shall arrange."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cash.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fifty years ago the cost was six million dollars, and we have purchased, only 300,000.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the condition is not deteriorated.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is very first class, palatial building. You have seen?
Prabhupāda: They're grave. They behave very nicely.
Rāmeśvara: Tourists.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's two boat docks underneath for boats to come, underneath the house. They're 80 foot long, two boat docks, to come in their boats right into the house.
Prabhupāda: The boats were sold by cheating our... Who was in charge of that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Er... Govardhana dāsa.
Prabhupāda: No, GBC?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaga...
Rāmeśvara: Jayatīrtha is now.
Prabhupāda: Jagadīśa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Calcutta in our childhood I have seen many big, big prostitutes, Vaiṣṇavī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: All, their behavior, their living... Simply they were not married. They were kept by some big men. Otherwise everything was so nice. Big, big prostitutes.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: There was a big temple of prostitutes in Calcutta, Kach-Kamil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kach...?
Prabhupāda: Kach-Kamil. Kach-Kamil means the gentleman who kept her, he was a big glass merchant. So the temple was decorated with mirrors and glass, and her name was Kamil, so Kach-Kamil temple. Still there are. Everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious, either poor man, retired man or prostitute or gentleman or rich man—everyone. The society itself was Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: We already said that this is a Communist plan.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They stripped a woman naked. Look at how these Muslims behaved. And after all these years of our distributing prasādam, and still they act like this.
Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick.
Prabhupāda: And the behavior of the police.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Indicates that everything else is wrong. His silence in reporting that the police...
Prabhupāda: Not only silence. In favor of or against us. Now if the Central Government properly inquires, the whole thing will be discovered.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And at least they're going to have to get our side. They're going to have to get our side.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there are certain indisputable facts. For example...
Prabhupāda: Big, big ministers are in favor of our movement, Morarji Desai and Vajpayi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Empty promises. It says (reading from an article by Dr. Kovoor, president of the Shree Lanka branch of the Rationalist Society), "Even babies are born with a set of genetically determined behavior patterns known as instincts, but with no knowledge. Knowledge has to be put into the brain of a child through the five senses. If a child is born bereft of the five senses, it will grow like a vegetable, without a mind."
Prabhupāda: So why a child is bereft of senses and why the others not? Who controls it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "A child born deaf will neither be a Singhalese nor a Tamil, because it will not be able to speak the languages of either communities. It will be a dumb child."
Prabhupāda: That means another... That means he's born half-dead. But can you give life? You are scientist. You give him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists think that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhavānanda Mahārāja is here.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Bhavānanda Mahārāja?
| Page Title: | Behavior (Conv. 1975 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 02 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=117, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 117 |