Prabhupāda: Yes. So unless he has got saṁskāra, he is enlightened by culture and knowledge, unless he has become dvija, then there is no authority for studying Vedas. Veda-paṭhet. After one has become dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, and veda-paṭhed bhaved vipraḥ. Vipra. Then he becomes... Gradually increasing, from śūdra he comes to dvija, then vipra. And after being vipra, after studying all the Vedas, when he realizes Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that, gradual process, gradual process and to make him a qualified brāhmaṇa. And when he becomes brāhmaṇa, then he knows Brahman. Then he makes spiritual progress. Without... Therefore, without becoming brāhmaṇa nobody can make spiritual progress. That is the door of spiritual knowledge. Then he makes progress, makes progress. So after understanding Brahman knowledge, then he comes to Paramātmā knowledge, then he comes to Bhāgavata knowledge.
Become a brahmana (Conversations 71-73)
Expressions researched:
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am answering. As I told you that this propaganda is meant for creating some brāhmaṇas all over the world because the brāhmaṇa element is lacking, so one who seriously comes to us, he has to become a brāhmaṇa. So he has to adopt the occupation of a brāhmaṇa, and he has to give up the occupation of a kṣatriya or a śūdra. But if one wants to keep his profession, at the same time wants to understand also, that is allowed.
Prabhupāda: The priestly class, they will make propaganda against us: "Oh, they are mlecchas, they are Europeans, they are Americans. What they can do? It is not good." Because India, the caste system is very strong. So I am giving the Europeans and Americans the opportunities to become brāhmaṇa, they are not satisfied.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident.
Guest (2): No, what I mean is brāhmaṇa means by birth or by action or...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not by birth. By action.
Guest (2): By action only.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): You don't recognize brāhmaṇas by birth, then.
Prabhupāda: No no. Then how they are becoming brāhmaṇas? They are not by birth brāhmaṇa? Why don't you see yourself? They are brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: There are two classes of men. One is kṛpaṇa, and one is brāhmaṇa. Kṛpaṇa, they want his sense satisfaction, and brāhmaṇa, they want Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. Satisfaction must be there but when you want your satisfaction, that is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇāḥ phala-hetavaḥ. He wants to enjoy the result. That is the whole world. Material world means everyone wants his sense satisfaction, but the same way, when you'll satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, then you become brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava. The result must be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus?
Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.
Scholar: Mohammedans also accept this divisions?
Scholar: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth that is your business. That is your business. If you say-two plus two equal to four—"No I don't accept." That is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brāhmaṇa.
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: The Industrial Revolution means revolution of the śūdras. That is Industrial Revolution. Increasing the number of śūdras. These scientists, they are also śūdras. Because they have no real knowledge. Brāhmaṇa means one who has got real knowledge. Brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And this industrial development means technologists; they are śūdras.
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: But they have taken the position of brāhmaṇas in the society.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are never as... They are always working. How they can take the position of the brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa's position is to teach brāhmaṇa knowledge, brahma-jñāna. That is brāhmaṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: Prior to the growth of technology...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was technology. But not in such large scale. Village technology. There was a blacksmith. You want a knife. You take one piece of steel, and he will do it, phut phut phut phut, and he'll put in the fire, and everything do. And now you are manufacturing these cutleries, cutleries, in larger scale. So they are śūdras. Similarly any factory, it is a combination of śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age, all are śūdras." Only we are trying to become brāhmaṇa. Otherwise all śūdras. So therefore there is no adjustment. Just like if you have got only legs, no arms, no mouth, so what is this body?
Paramahaṁsa: Corpse.
Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Brahman Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. So at least you are not a brāhmaṇa, because you do not know the Brahman.
Krishna Tiwari: I do not believe in classes anyway.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Krishna Tiwari: It's all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there, that is your defect. One has to become a brāhmaṇa. One has to. But you're deviated from brāhmaṇa.
Krishna Tiwari: I'm glad I did. (laughs) I'm really happy I did. I can assure you, Swami.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Krishna Tiwari: If I meet God, I'll tell Him I'm glad I did. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The demons always say like that. (disciples laugh). The demons say always like that. That's is the fashion of the demons.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).
Guest (5): Kṣīne puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21).
Prabhupāda: Kṣīne puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. So why should we waste our time. Even I become Brahmā, again we have to come.
Guest (5): (Hindi) Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), kṣurasya dhara niśita duratyayā.
Prabhupāda: Duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. (Hindi) But if there is physician, it can be cured. So that is there said: daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. Very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. So why don't you do that.
Guest (5): Tam eva śaraṇaṁ gaccha sarva-bhāvena bhārata (BG 18.62).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they'll not do this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). They'll not do it. They're determined to suffer. So what can be done?
Guest (5): Sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ.
Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is the sva-dharma. Sva-dharma, that is for the lower stage. Sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ. You have got a brahminical body. All right, discharge your duties as brāhmaṇa. But he's not doing that.
Guest (5): So he's not performing his sva-dharma.
Prabhupāda: No!
Guest (5): And that's why it is dangerous for him.
Prabhupāda: It is dangerous. He's already... A brāhmaṇa is doing śūdra's business. Therefore this stress has been given. You have become brāhmaṇa- like, you do like, act like brāhmaṇa. Janma-karma, uh, guṇa-karma. So you have got good qualification of the brāhmaṇas. Now act like brāhmaṇa. Then your life is succ... Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). You act as a brāhmaṇa and satisfy the Lord, Supreme. Varṇāśramācaravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān, viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). If you strictly act as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra, it doesn't matter. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). If, by your action, as it is described in the śāstra, the Supreme Lord is satisfied, then your life is successful. But they are not doing even sva-dharma, bodily. Therefore the ultimate solution is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: You are thinking wrongly that we are not responsible. Why you are thinking like that? You are thinking wrongly. Kṛṣṇa did not take in politics, part? Then why you are thinking?
Reporter: No, no, I'm not saying Kṛṣṇa did not take... I'm just saying that it seems that He sometimes, it seems, that people who emphasize the spiritual consciousness do not clarify enough..., it is not clear enough—and I'm not saying it's not there but it's not clear enough—the social political dimension, social action, political action, how we run our society in its practical terms. So it is not clear.
Prabhupāda: It is clear. If you are actually surrendered soul, then to you it is clear, it is very clear. Kṛṣṇa gives direction, that this is the business of the brāhmaṇa, this is the business of kṣatriya. So politics is the business of the kṣatriya. So if you act according to Kṛṣṇa's direction in politics, then you are surrendered soul. It is not that because we have got this mālā and tilaka we are surrendered soul, and a kṣatriya cannot be surrendered soul, or a vaiśya cannot be surrendered soul. You have to act according to the direction. Kṛṣṇa is giving direction: "This is brāhmaṇa's karma." You do it. That means you are surrendered soul, at the same time you are acting as a brāhmaṇa. But if you act whimsically, then what is your surrender? And why did you become a brāhmaṇa? Then there is chaos. That is the present position of the society. They are not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they do not abide by the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have become leaders. Then the whole thing is chaos.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathe... (SB 5.18.12). This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to become a brāhmaṇa, how to become a kṣatriya, how to become a vaiśya, how to become a śūdra, or how to remain less important than the śūdras. The societies must be divided in different divisions. They should work conjointly... (end)
Professor: How many levels of initiation do you have?
Prabhupāda: Two.
Professor: Two. The first...
Prabhupāda: First initiation, experimental...
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Then, as he practices, becomes more purified, then second initiation. Gāyatrī. Gāyatrī-mantra. But the first initiation, according to Jīva Gosvāmī, that is sufficient. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, that is sufficient. But still, to purify them more, the second initiation, Gāyatrī, is given. So we are creating brāhmaṇas in the western countries. Yes.
Professor: Yes. I know. Don't you think it's against the dharma-śāstra?
Prabhupāda: No.
Professor: No. Tell me why?
Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There is nothing, such thing as janma.
Professor: Oh. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: And another place, Bhāgavatam, there is statement of Nārada, advising Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira that yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam. There are symptoms, brāhmaṇa system, śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 18.42). It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam, abhivyañjakaṁ varṇa. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). This is the injunction of Nārada, "The symptoms, brahminical symptoms, if it is found in the person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. And if the śūdra symptoms are visible in a person born in a brāhmaṇa family, he should be accepted as śūdra." And in the Jābāla Upaniṣad, the Satyakāma Jābāla... So Satyakāma was born of a maidservant, but he wanted to become brāhmaṇa. So he went to Gautama Muni: "Sir, make your disciple." In those days, Vaidic brahminical culture, without becoming brāhmaṇa, he cannot be initiated. Initiation means to make one brāhmaṇa. So, according to our Gosvāmī process, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has given us the book, Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. In that book he has written,
- yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti
- kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ
- tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena
- dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām
Nṛṇām: "Of all human beings, by initiation, he becomes a dvija." So we follow that principle. And besides that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered that bhārata-bhūmite... You understand little Bengali?
Professor: No, Bengali, no, I don't. But it doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). It is almost Sanskrit. "Anyone who has taken birth as human being in the land of Bhāratavarṣa," janma sārthaka kari, "making his life successful," kara para-upakāra. Para-upakāra. Para-upakāra means everyone is in slumber and considering himself that he is body, like cats and dogs. Therefore, they should be raised to the spiritual consciousness that "You are not cats and dogs. You are Brahman." Just realize "ahaṁ brahmāsmi." This is para-upakāra. So we are doing that. We are awakening everyone. Uttiṣṭhataḥ jāgrataḥ prāpta-varaṁ nibodhata: "You have got now human being form of life. Now get up and make your life successful by spiritual realization." This is our message. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. By spiritual realization everyone will become happy. Without spiritual realization, nobody can become happy. This is our mission.
Professor: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: So Indian caste brāhmaṇas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.
Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brāhmaṇa yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am now sannyāsī.
Haṁsadūta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.
Haṁsadūta: That's all. No.
Prabhupāda: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.
Professor: You know the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad?
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad. Yes.
Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad? That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Professor: Yeah, that the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's the...
Yogeśvara: You mentioned that to Professor Stahl in your correspondences.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: You mentioned that in the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is specifically recommended to counteract the contamination.
Prabhupāda: Now it is translated by you.
Professor: Yeah.
Yogeśvara: In French?
Professor: In French, yes. I'll send you a copy when, when it's out of the press. It is not a fact at present. Well, I thank you very much for being kind enough...
Yogeśvara: If you have questions, you shouldn't feel shy. You can ask whatever you want.
Professor: No, why not?
Prabhupāda: No. He has already questioned once, that I am making brāhmaṇa—whether it is according to śāstra?
Professor: That's the usual question. That's not the first time this question has been asked to you.
Prabhupāda: No, it is... We do not do anything which is not in śāstra. So this Jābāla Upaniṣad, this Satyakāma Jābāla, he went to Gautama Muni for initiation. So Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He replied that he did not know. "So ask your mother." The mother was asked also. She said, "No, I do not know." He came to Gautama Muni and said that, "My father's name is neither known to my mother nor to me."
Professor: Yes, yes. I know this story.
Prabhupāda: Then he accepted that "You are a brāhmaṇa," because he is talking truth.
Professor: The truth, satyam.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign.
Professor: The sign. It's a well-known story.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, by birth, a brāhmaṇa is not made. By character.
Prabhupāda: Then, suppose, what you are? What is your business? What do you do? You're teacher, what is the subject matter?
Guest (1): I teach in law.
Prabhupāda: So if one wants to know what is law, he must become a student. It is not that simply asking "What is law, sir?" You can make him understand within a minute or within hour? Is it possible?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.
Guest (1): So in order to understand what is God one has to leave his family and come to some...
Prabhupāda: Why do you surmise like that? You do not know what is God. Why do you surmise your proposal?
Guest (1): No, I mean, ah...
Prabhupāda: Now why you are asking this question? You know, I've explained, that one has to become brāhmaṇa. There are still there are many brāhmaṇas, those who are with children. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He had no children, He was family man. Nityānanda Prabhu was family man, and Advaita Prabhu was family man. They're all brāhmaṇas, family men, but they knew what is God. The real thing is to know God.
Prabhupāda: when Rāmānanda Rāya stated, citing one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. If one simply hears about Viṣṇu, never mind in whatever condition he is, then he can understand what is God. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Śruti-gatām means hearing. Receiving from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. And in that way if he engages his body, his words, tanu-vāk, mind, then, although Lord Viṣṇu is Ajita, nobody can conquer Him, he can conquer. He can understand what is Viṣṇu, what is His function, what is my relationship with Him. All these things can be understood. Therefore we are propagating the same principle. We do not ask anyone: "First of all, you become brāhmaṇa. Then come here." No. Let him come and hear about Viṣṇu. We speak, discuss about Bhagavad-gītā. They hear. They hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have seen our books? So these books are discussed and gradually... If it is a fact, śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, if one gives only aural reception to this transcendental message, then, although God is Ajita, nobody can conquer, He becomes conquered. So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God.
Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?
Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.
Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.
Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.
Lady: But originally it wasn't like that. Suppose if you are born into brāhmaṇa, fortunately, then you become brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not. No, no, no. No, that is not śāstra. That is a... Lately, this brahminical class, they made it. Just like he is a manager in the bank. His son does not mean that he is also manager. He must be qualified to become a manager. He has got the facility. Because he is son of a bank manager, so he can get some facilities, father's training. He can quickly become a manager. Others may take time. Similarly, a person born in brāhmaṇa family, if his father is actually brāhmaṇa, then automatically he is getting the brahminical training at home. This satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, ārjavam (BG 18.42), this qualification. Because naturally the children follow the father. So if the father is a real brāhmaṇa, then he naturally becomes. But if by chance he develops the śūdra quality, then he must be accepted as śūdra, not as a brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). If the qualities, brahminical qualities are found somewhere else in śūdra or a vaiśya, then he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly if śūdra qualities are found in the son of a brāhmaṇa, he should be accepted as śūdra. It is the quality, not the birth. That is not a fact. They have made it now like that. Because without any qualification, if he can become a brāhmaṇa, why he should not take the advantage? That has fallen down the Vedic culture in India, when it came to the caste system. It is not the caste system by birth. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "By quality..." guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Read that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Brahmānanda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa means quality, karma means the work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like he is manager. He has got the qualification of manager and he is working as manager. Then he is a manager. Even if he has got the quality, if he does not work, he is not a manager. Suppose he has got the qualities, but he does not work, he sits at home, nobody will call him bank manager. He must have the qualities and he must work. Then he is. So here is guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. A brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra must have the requisite quality. And at the same time he must work as such. Then he is brāhmaṇa.
Banker: Seeking what you call happiness. Just as in your life you get up at three o'clock, you do a certain thing at that time, go around on a schedule, so you don't have to think about the mundane, and you seek the eternal happiness.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect. Here you cannot expect everyone as brāhmaṇa, in this material world. That is not possible. Because in the material world three qualities are working. So one may be brāhmaṇa, another may be kṣatriya, another may be vaiśya, another may... So they should cooperate. Then everyone's life will be perfect. That is the program. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Prabhupāda: Now if somebody is claiming that, "I am brāhmaṇa", then government should force him to become actually a brāhmaṇa. That is government's duty, that is secular state. Not that let people go to hell, we don't care for them, that is not required.
Guest: Yes, but if a brāhmaṇa is not behaving...
Prabhupāda: If you are claiming to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa.
Lady Guest: (indistinct) of a brāhmaṇas.
Guest: And actions and duty....
Prabhupāda: That should be the platform.
Guest: Because if a brāhmaṇa goes on drinking and abusing...
Prabhupāda: That is not brāhmaṇa. How can that be brāhmaṇa? That is a śūdra, caṇḍāla. Then what is the difference between a.... But they are claiming brāhmaṇa by birth. That is not allowed in the śāstra.
Guest: No, no.
Prabhupāda: It is not allowed.
Guest: It is by our actions and faults(?).
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Never says birth. Guṇa-karma, quality and karma.
Yaśomatīnandana: True brāhmaṇas even didn't care for kings.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: They didn't care for the honor from king or they didn't, they would...
Prabhupāda: They would give advice to the kings but never accept the post of a king.
Hṛdayānanda: So every kṣatriya had to have something to manage?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There was a regular advisory committee, privy council, composed of high learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think people who say like this they are jealous.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are jealous of the other people who are coming up higher than them. So, seeing them, they are quite jealous.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These so-called brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: They must be jealous because if simply by taking birth in a brāhmaṇa family he can become brāhmaṇa and if somebody protests then he, he becomes jealous... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Now the government is so irresponsible. Just like in Nairobi, I was refused permission. You see. We spent so much money, and they did not inform before. And when I was on the airport... That also, no written order. They said, "From higher authorities it is the order that you cannot enter." Just see. Kenya. So at the present moment we have got many enemies of this movement. (Hindi) "You are converting these European and American into brāhmaṇa. How they can become brāhmaṇa without taking birth as brāhmaṇa?" (Hindi)
| Page Title: | Become a brahmana (Conversations 71-73) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Sahadeva |
| Created: | 14 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=23, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 23 |