BG 02.21 vedavinasinam nityam... cited

Expressions researched:
"kam ghatayati hanti kam" |"katham sa purusah partha" |"vedavinasinam nityam" |"ya enam ajam avyayam"

BG Chapters 1 - 6

BG 2.21, Translation and Purport:

O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?

Everything has its proper utility, and a man who is situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing for its proper utility. Similarly, violence also has its utility, and how to apply violence rests with the person in knowledge. Although the justice of the peace awards capital punishment to a person condemned for murder, the justice of the peace cannot be blamed, because he orders violence to another person according to the codes of justice. In Manu-saṁhitā, the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore, the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for supreme justice, and thus Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence, committed in the act of fighting for Kṛṣṇa, is not violence at all because, at any rate, the man, or rather the soul, cannot be killed; so for the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but to cure him. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna at the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, so there is no possibility of sinful reaction.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 2.20-25 -- Seattle, October 14, 1968:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because eternal, therefore how it can be slain? So soul is never slain. The body is slain. Then?

Viṣṇujana: 21: "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill (BG 2.21)?" Purport: "Everything has its utility, and a man who is situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing for its proper utility. Similarly violence also has its use, and how to apply violence rests with the person in knowledge. Although the justice of the peace awards capital punishment to a person condemned for murder, the justice of the peace cannot be blamed because he orders violence to another according to the codes of justice. In the Manu-saṁhitā,..."

Prabhupāda: Manu-saṁhitā, yes.

Viṣṇujana: "...the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for the supreme justice, and as such, Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence committed in the act of fighting for justice is not at all violence. Because at any rate the man, or rather, the soul, cannot be killed. For the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but is for his cure. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna under the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, and so there is no possibility of sinful reaction."

Prabhupāda: This is the distinction between violence and nonviolence. People are very much advocate of nonviolence, but they are committing, according to their estimation, they are committing every moment violence. But from higher standard there is practically no violence and the things which apparently appear to be violence, if it is properly executed... Just like under the order of high-court judge, one body is being executed. So that is not violence. A justice of higher order is not meant for committing violence. It is justice. Similarly, when, under the direction of the supreme justice, Kṛṣṇa, anything is done, apparently, although it appears violence, it is not violence. It is justice. This is to be understood. Go on.

Lecture on BG 2.21-22 -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda:

vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ

ya enam ajam avyayam

kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha

kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam

(BG 2.21)

vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya

navāni gṛhṇāti naro 'parāṇi

tathā śarīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇāny

anyāni saṁyāti navāni dehī

(BG 2.22)

So this is another way of convincing that... Very simple thing. Anyone can understand. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya. As our garments, coats and shirts, when they are old, rotten, no more usable, so we throw it away and get a new garment, shirt, coat. Similarly, the soul is changing garment from childhood, from babyhood. Just like a baby has got a shoe, but when he gets the child's body the shoe does not fit. You have to take another shoe. Similarly, when the same child grows or changes body, he requires another shoe. Similarly, the soul is changing his body exactly as we change our garments. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Jīrṇāni means when it is old enough, not fit for use, yathā vihāya, as we give it up... Vihāya means give it up. Navāni, new garment. Naraḥ aparāṇi gṛhṇāti. Now the body has been compared herein as the garment. Just like coat and shirt. The tailor cuts the coat according to the body. Similarly, this material body, if it is shirt and coat, then this is cut according to the spiritual body. The spiritual body is not nirākāra, without form. If it is without form, then how the garment, the coat and shirt, has got hands and legs? It is common sense. The coat has got hand or the pant has got legs because the person who is using the coat, he has got hands and legs.

So this proves that the spiritual body is not impersonal. It is not a zero, it is, it has got form. But the form is so minute, aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān: one form is lesser than the atom. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. Two forms are there spiritual. One is the Supreme Lord's form, virāḍ-rūpa, mahato mahīyān, and our form, aṇor aṇīyān, lesser than the atom. That is stated in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān ātmāsya jantor nihito guhāyām. Nihito guhāyām, guhāyām means in the heart. Both of them are there. Now find out modern science. Both the soul and the Supersoul, they are situated within the heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). It is not said that "Anywhere in the body it is sitting." No. Hṛd-deśe, in the heart. And actually, by medical science, the heart is the center of all activities of the body, office. And the brain is the manager. The director is there, Kṛṣṇa. He says also in another place, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Everything is clear. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ, "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Find out God, find out Kṛṣṇa. In several places, all Vedic literature, guhāyām. Guhāyām means in the heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). The supreme director, Kṛṣṇa, is sitting there, and He is directing, "Now this living entity wants to fulfill his desire in this way." He's giving direction to the material nature. "Now, prepare a vehicle, body, for this rascal in this way. He wants to enjoy. All right, let him enjoy." This is going on. We are all rascals, we are manufacturing our different ways of life. "I think." So you are thinking. As soon as you are thinking... But we cannot fulfill our desires without sanction of God.

Lecture on BG 2.22 -- Hyderabad, November 26, 1972:

So this verse we discussed last morning. That this body is just like dress. This is not our real identification. I am thinking "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am African," "I am Russian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am śūdra," "I am Andhra-pradesh," "I am Bengali." These are all nonsense. But on this nonsense idea the whole world is going on. So how there can be real knowledge? The basic principle of knowledge is ignorance. Andha. The man who is leading, he is blind. How he can lead? This is the position. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are trying to make advancement of civilization, but the basic principle is wrong. They are accepting... This is called illusion, accepting something as something else. The... Just like this... If I identify myself with this coat and shirt, the basic principle of my identification is lost.

So here it is clearly said that vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Before this,

vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ

ya enam ajam avyayam

kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha

kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam

Anyone who knows that the living entity, soul, is avināśi, indestructible, then where is the question of killing? But that does not mean the Bhagavad-gītā is encouraging killing. No. That is not the purport. Killing is prohibited. But when we see that a brāhmaṇa is killing one animal in the sacrifice, it is not killing. Therefore we have to see with the eyes of Vedic knowledge. Not with these eyes. What is the value of these eyes? It has no value. We are very much proud: "Can you show me?" What is value of your seeing? Even if I show you, the value of your seeing power is nil. It sees only under certain conditions. That's all. If there is a light, you can see. What is the value of your eyes? Therefore the real seeing is through Vedic knowledge. That is seeing. Śāstra-cakṣus. Real knowledge, real seeing power, should be through the śāstras. And śāstra means infallible, not theory. Not theory. Just like a conditioned soul writes some book on some thesis. What is the value of it? It has no value. Because the man who is putting forward the thesis, he is blind. He's imperfect. So how you can get perfect knowledge from him?

So our proposition is that to receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We accept śāstra, means which is infallible. There is no mistake. Just like when I was walking near the cowshed, heaps of, piles of cow dung was there. So I was explaining to my followers that if such heaps of animal, I mean to say, man stool was heaped up here, nobody would come here. Nobody would come here. But the cow dung, there are so much heaps of cow dung, still, we find it pleasure to go through it. And in the Vedas it is said, "Cow dung is pure." This is called śāstra. If you argue, "How it can, it has become pure? It is an animal stool." But the Vedas, they... Because the knowledge is perfect, that even in argument we cannot prove how animal stool becomes pure, but it is pure. Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. And if we take knowledge from the Vedas, we save so much time for investigating, or researching. We are very much fond of research. Everything is there in the Vedas. Why do you waste your time?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ

ya enam ajam avyayam

kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha

kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam

"O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (French)

Church Representative: I have nothing to say against. But I cannot say that it is a definition. Do you say in English, definition?

Prabhupāda: Yes, definition.

Church Representative: I cannot say that it is a definition. It is a sort of creed, a profession of faith.

Prabhupāda: No, it is characteristic. Definition means you mention the characteristic. That is definition. Definition, you mention the characteristic. So that can be mentioned directly, or if it is not perceivable, then you can define in opposite way. Just like we have got experience: everything in the material world, it is beginning. There is a beginning. Anything of this—your body, my body, everything—it has got a beginning, and it has got an end. So it is stated, na jāyate na mriyate vā: "It has no beginning, no end." And nityaḥ, eternal, śāśvataḥ, very old, purāṇaḥ. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "It is not destroyed, annihilated, after the destruction of the body." So if we accept this definition, then we can understand the soul is eternal. Our characteristic, if we accept these characteristics, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), after the destruction of body the soul is never destroyed, then you can understand the soul is eternal. And it is clearly stated, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "After the destruction of the body, it is not destroyed." So, it means it takes another body. (French)