Prabhupāda: So we must have confidence that I'm working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must go back to Godhead, back to home. This is confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence. And ... yaḥ syād ... niscyad... tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Simply enthusiasm but no work. But you must be engaged in the prescribed duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you must keep always yourself in the association of devotees. These things are, I mean to say, impetus for development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the more you enthuse yourself with these six principles, patience, enthusiasm, then confidence, then engaging in the activities, keeping association with devotees and avoiding association with nondevotees. That is also another thing. Just like if you want to ignite a fire then the more the dry wood is, you get good fire. If you get wet wood, the fire is very difficult to burn. Therefore we should keep ourself dry from being wet by the association of nondevotees. That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire you must protect it from water. And if you ignite fire and pour water then what is the benefit? Nothing. So to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to keep company with devotees. Similarly, you have to avoid the company of nondevotees. So these six principles will develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Avoid (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"avoid"
|"avoidance"
|"avoidances"
|"avoided"
|"avoiding"
|"avoids"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Seaweeds, yes. So they... All over the body there was some seaweeds. Not exactly... He was very unclean and odd-looking, and beard and ugly. So he thought that "He's a great yogi. If I refuse, 'No, I'm not going to hand over my daughter to you,' then he may be angry and create some catastrophe." So he said, just to avoid him, that "I have got eight daughters, and it is the desire of my daughters that they should be given over to one husband." No, that "they should be married all at once. So unless I find other husbands for my daughters you have to wait." So immediately, "Yes, I shall myself become eight then." And he expanded himself, eight expansions. So at that time what could he say? He said, "You know, my dear sir, that they are princesses after all. They may not like such ugly husband." Oh, he at once became very youthful and beautiful. Then he married. So in the history you can find that a perfect yogi can expand himself.
Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.
Prabhupāda: Of course, so long we have got this material body, some material consideration must be there. (chuckles) That is not possible to avoid completely.
Devotee (1): They shouldn't force her to get married, though. That was kind of a bad choice that they gave her, "Either get married or don't come on saṅkīrtana." You can't force somebody.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that wasn't the situation. It was not that choice.
Devotee (1): What? You can't... I mean to say that you can't force somebody to get married. You know. That isn't proper.
Prabhupāda: There was no force. There was no force. Only proposal. That's all. When it was proposed before me, I also said, "It depends on the choice." So anyway, go on with your work, saṅkīrtana movement you have started. It is very nice. And it is being responded. So increase it. If simply brahmacārīs can do it, that is best.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Student (5): (inaudible)... Why do you butter, ...cheese ...?
Prabhupāda: I do not know. No. We avoid.
Student (5): (inaudible)...Is that part of the whole...?
Prabhupāda: No. There is not part only, but we discourage killing. That is in the Bible also, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What can be done? In the Bible, Ten Commandments, there is, "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. What shall be done?
Student (6): Have you ever found what you believe to be your self? Have you ever found your inside, I mean, not physically or mental...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Satsvarūpa: No, gopīs are not boycotted.
Prabhupāda: The policy should be that the people may not understand gopīs like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the gopīs. It does not mean that "We shall not utter even the name of gopīs. We have taken vow to boycott the gopīs." No. They are our worshipable devotees. How we can avoid them?
Satsvarūpa: What about writing down "kissing the lips of Kṛṣṇa"?
Prabhupāda: No. That we should avoid. That we should avoid. But that is not abominable. According to time and circumstances... That thing I have described. The fact is fact. Just like when I am describing Kṛṣṇa's līlā—I writing Kṛṣṇa's life—so I cannot give up that portion of His life, when Kṛṣṇa is actually kissing the gopīs in rasa dance.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): Mahārāja, there is reason for that. Because that paper, the owner of that press is a Jain. And the Jains have a natural antipathy towards the ...?...
Prabhupāda: Oh, just see. So how biased man can report? So therefore we are avoiding reports.
Guest (4): (Hindi?)
Prabhupāda: No, tape may be. But he also taped, that man. But he has misrepresented.
Guest (4): I should like to ask one question, sir.
Prabhupāda: All right, you can ask. But kindly publish rightly. Don't...
Guest (4): Yes, yes.
Guest (5): (unintelligible)
Prabhupāda: (break) Still you want to inquire from her?
Guest (4): From the entire business.
Prabhupāda: So you can inquire from me. In my presence, you can inquire from me. Because, after all, they are my students, they may not be able to reply thoroughly. So if you have got any inquiries you can ask from me.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest: Correct. They'll never be the one who will ever advocate any war because they know this war itself is a wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't say, "Avoid war." But unnecessary war is avoided. Just like Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to fight. It was necessary. It was necessary.
Guest: To get rid of extra evil.
Prabhupāda: It was necessary. So nothing is avoided, but everything is utilized for proper purpose. Nothing is rejected. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. This is fact, that Kṛṣṇa never advocated that "Let there be stop of war." No. When there is necessity, absolute necessity, there may be war but for their good purpose, not by the whims of the politicians, no.
Prof. Kotovsky: Hm hm. That's right. So...
Prabhupāda: So if you can arrange some program, it is all right. There are... It is all right.
Śyāmasundara: Is there any possibility Swamiji could lecture at the institute itself in the next day or two?
Prof. Kotovsky: I don't think because, you know, now it is vacation time. (break)
Prabhupāda: "...Vedic Concept of Communism," "Knowledge by Authorized Tradition," and what was the other?
Śyāmasundara: "Scientific Values of..."
Prabhupāda: "Scientific Classless Society." This subject matter I wanted...
Prof. Kotovsky: Have you put into writing these three subjects somewhere?
Prabhupāda: I asked... Because I could not contact him, therefore I asked the ambassador. But unfortunately they said that "We did not receive any letter like that." So you can note down if you like.
Prabhupāda: Drug is killing the whole Western nation. You will be spoiled, you will be finished with this drug habit. You are already finished. America is finished. They cannot do anything anymore. Neither industrialists nor big scholars, neither big fighter. Anything. Simply spoiled. The only shelter is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pāpi tāpi yata chilo harināme uddharilo. They can be only saved by this process. They have no other... otherwise they are going to hell. All Americans, the so-called puffed up materialist. This is a fact. So if you want to do service to your country, introduce this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the younger generation. They will be saved. You be saved and save your brothers. And otherwise this poison, this intoxication, heroin, cocaine, and LSD and this and marijuana, finished everything. But if you become steady in one life without deviating for māyā, then you make solution of all problems. That is the duty of human being . Instead of suffering this repeated birth and death, one life sacrifice. What is that sacrifice? What is inconvenience to live nicely, avoiding these four rascal habit, taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading all these nice books. Where is the difficulty? Nice life. First class life. Wherever you will go you will be respectable. Anyone will worship you.
Dr. Weir: Well, if you're silent you can hear things, but if you're making noise, you know, the message doesn't come through, and if somebody else is making a noise you've got an excuse for not getting the message. I think a lot of people again are afraid of getting the message. So with the noise they can say, "Of course I didn't hear it so you mustn't blame me." Now that sort of cheating, I think, is a very bad one. That's not what I call positive cheating. That cheating yourself which is even more dangerous than, if you cheat the other chap, if he's clever enough he can avoid the effect of it, but if you cheat yourself, you know you might try and boost yourself up by your own bootstraps. (indistinct) you can't get out of it.
Śyāmasundara: ...spread this philosophy as much as possible in this age because it's been lost by so much noise (indistinct) our message is getting through though.
Dr. Weir: The fact that it can be heard sometime even above the noise...
Prabhupāda: One noise makes liberation. One noise makes bondage. Noise must be there.
Dr. Weir: But we do have in this modern world a neurotic desire for noise and novelty. The two things together...
Śyāmasundara: There again, novelty and noise, they're sense gratification (indistinct) gratify the senses.
Dr. Weir: Well, don't you think it's also possible to, mind you, that you only have to have novelty because you are not being satisfied.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Dr. Weir: In other words, what's happening is, you're not satisfied so you have to have something to do.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. The senses can never be gratified but always the drive is there to gratify them.
Dr. Weir: If you go to a good play or see a good film or hear some good music you feel satisfied and you don't have to flash back next night because you've seen it before. You have a feeling that, you know...
Śyāmasundara: Even that, a good play or a good music is not very long lasting. When you come out of the theater you're hungry. When your hunger is satisfied then you want some sex life. Then you want to drive home fast. There's always something there to agitate the material senses.
Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.
Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: Does a devotee lose some of his individuality in that...
Prabhupāda: No, he has got full individuality, but he sacrifices individuality for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So he voluntarily surrenders. Not that he has lost his individuality. He keeps his individuality fully. But because Kṛṣṇa desires that he should surrender, he never minds. He's individual. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he was declining to fight on account of his individuality. But when he accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master, he became śiṣya. Then whatever He ordered, "Yes." That doesn't mean he lost his individuality. He voluntarily accepted, "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do it." Just as all my disciples, they have not lost their individuality, but they have surrendered their individuality. That is required. Just like if a man does not use sex, does that mean he has become impotent? If he likes he can have, thousand times sex life, but he has voluntarily avoided it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Sometimes we fast, that does mean we are diseased. We voluntarily fast. It does not mean that I am not hungry, I cannot eat. But we voluntarily fast.
Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: There are some special vegetables for the Buddhists also. Vegetable meat.
Prabhupāda: Vegetable meat?
Dai Nippon representative: Vegetable meat for Buddhists.
Prabhupāda: Oh, vegetable meat. Yes. Yes, Buddhist, I know that. They are strictly vegetarian, those who are strict followers. So now we have to go to some train?
Prabhupāda:
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
After forgetting Kṛṣṇa, one wants to lord it over the material nature, but he becomes... (break) Especially in the Western world, everywhere attracted sex life. Mini-skirt so that the other party may be attracted. So many means and ways they want to avoid the after-results of sex life, contraceptive. The center is sex life. They are giving up everything, the hippies, but sex is there. That they cannot give up. So-called giving up, but they cannot give up the real central point. So this is māyā. He's captured by this one idea, mithuna. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is attracted by this sex life. We are trying to use this sex life in different way. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa-bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They're becoming diseased in so many ways. Sex life, indulgence of sex life means you will become diseased, so many diseases. That is a medical fact. So this movement is very scientific movement, authorized. Anyone who will take to it seriously, sincerely, will be cured of this material disease and be happy.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: ...which have been slaughtered for this. Should I stop wearing leather shoes?
Prabhupāda: Well, that also you can continue. That is not... Just like we are using so many things made of skin. But as far as possible, you avoid. There are many shoes without skin, nowadays they are available. First of all try to understand the philosophy. It is very nice attitude that you have. What salary you are getting, government service?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted to deal with Value Added Tax, and I will go up from 1,400 pounds a year to 1,700 or 1,800 pounds a year. I'm not sure of my new salary because I'm starting on Monday.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That means our 150 pounds per month?
Ian Polsen: Less the tax.
Devotee: He said that the message of Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.
Jayatīrtha: You can get any kind of insurance on a building here in Los Angeles but the only kind, it's so expensive, no one can afford, is earthquake insurance. Hardly anyone will write earthquake insurance because they have such a fear that the earthquake will come at any time, and no one wants to gamble their money on someone else's building, that it will not fall apart in an earthquake. The threefold miseries are always a factor. No one can avoid them. (indistinct) asked one question. Someone sent some dust from the...
Prabhupāda: We go this way?
Jayatīrtha: Somebody sent some dust from the bhajan-kutir of the Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, and he was wondering whether it could be put on the altar in some little brass box, on Lord Caitanya's altar.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Altar is the seat of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The devotee's dust cannot go there. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The distance from...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The relative (indistinct) between the earth and the...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct), they say that this is utopian. But when they speak of "we are going to send some (indistinct) in a capsule and it will reach, and after ten thousand years it will come out," are these not utopian? They will make a station, (indistinct) station, and (indistinct). All these are practical or utopian? What is the opposite word of utopian?
Jayatīrtha: Pragmatic.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That we are discussing. That was not a very (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: The whole thing is that we're sort of at a crisis in India, in terms of our presence here. Our prestige has hit an all-time low simply because of our conduct, that's all. Not because of our teaching, or because we are white, or anything like that. It's just because of our conduct. It's been so bad. Abominable. We don't in any way compare with the Indian sannyāsīs in our conduct. So how can we expect to honor Śrīla Prabhupāda if we conduct ourselves like that? So it's part of our responsibilities as the leaders not to avoid it, not to avoid the other devotees, but to train them now, begin training them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask, "When is he coming?" (indistinct). As soon as (indistinct), immediately I ask. So there may be more (indistinct), but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is slipping, the kīrtana is going on (indistinct) morning, (indistinct) is going on. So he maybe said that if you sleep like that then you cannot do it.
Devotee: I said that to that boy previously. I told him not to do...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why you (indistinct) something, pour water on his body?
Devotee: Simply to wake him.
Prabhupāda: You should not do anything which may provoke some kind of...
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: At the present it is not...
Devotee: It's so big, it's so big.
Devotee (2): Most of the quality of people that are there less people of a higher quality in a smaller place, it would do much more good. Like I was in the Philippines by myself, all alone, but still the work would go on much quicker because I could avoid all of this. I could avoid all of this what with we're having right now, I could avoid it completely because I was, there was nobody there to cause it, all new people.
Śyāmasundara: Everybody here knows everything. (laughter)
Devotee (2): And it goes up very quickly because the people are automatically attracted. And then you teach them, you train them. So less Americans and just one or two people who want to manage and then start with the people here, the Indian people. And as they develop and become strong, then develop a center. It may take a long time but it will be solid. It will be more solid then. Just bring a bunch of Americans here and then the whole thing just falls to pieces. And then we ruin our reputation in that particular area where we want to open a...
Prabhupāda: Then what is your suggestion?
Devotee (2): That we start a small center and then you develop it gradually with less, with less inexperienced people...
Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for nearly a year, eight months.
Brahmānanda: British was finished.
Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: "Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up." They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: "They're wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?" Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. "Now we cannot rule it." How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That's a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India's weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.
Brahmānanda: The, the independence movement of Africa, they took great inspiration from Gandhi's movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Brahmānanda: If Gandhi did it, then, they say: "Oh, now we can do it."
Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.
Brahmānanda: The German scientist, he didn't want to come.
Prabhupāda: Why he avoids?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was thinking carefully and decided that he cannot defend what he has in his mind.
Prabhupāda: We are not ordinary, the so-called swamis and sādhus. We are going to give to the world something which they forgot. I told this in London airport. Yes. That was published in the papers. They asked me, "Why you have come to London?" And "Because to teach you something which you have forgotten."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it before Prabhupāda came here.
Brahmānanda: In London.
Prabhupāda: In London. Here also I told in New York, "To make you intelligent. You are all fools and rascals." Yes, they are fools and rascals because they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body." So anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," he is an ass. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Prabhupāda: Why do you take covering? You know everything will be cleared after few hours. Why do you cover?
Paramahaṁsa: It is dangerous now.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, why do you take this step to avoid this?
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: It's uncomfortable. It's not natural.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Māyāvāda theory; that everything will uncover automatically, why do you bother? That is nonsense.
Karandhara: They will not be able to be so philosophical in their next lives when they're a dog.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Karandhara: The Māyāvādīs will not be able to be so philosophical in their next lives when they're dogs or cats.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But still, you, you are not controller of the state laws.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yes, in a way I am. In a way I am.
Prabhupāda: No. Anyway, that is a different thing. But you cannot violate the state laws.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, well, we can avoid them. If there is a bad law, you can change.
Prabhupāda: Then you'll be punished. The state laws give you law that you cannot drive your car on the left.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yeah, quite right.
Prabhupāda: So if you violate, you become a criminal.
Krishna Tiwari: Right. Right.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are subordinate to the law, and the law is given by another, bigger person.
Krishna Tiwari: No bigger person. Now, now. These laws of nature...
Prabhupāda: How you say it is not bigger? Government is bigger than you.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). "He becomes free from the duality of this world, and becomes fixed-up in My service." So this is the condition, that yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. Without being sinless, nobody can understand what is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavad-bhajana. Therefore this is the beginning of sinless life: no intoxication, no illicit sex... If you can, if somebody avoids these things, he does not die. It is simply a little practice. He's practiced to all these bad habits, and if he likes, he can give it up. It is not difficult. And this is tapasya, little tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). To become advanced in spiritual life, one has to accept some tapasya, austerity. So this is a simple austerity. Therefore when we officially initiate, we get this promise from the student, that "You have to follow this." And that's all.
Prabhupāda: I want things are nice, but...
Guest (9): If we stop that one, I come to coffee and tea.
Prabhupāda: They might have gone to hell, but I am not... (laughter) I cannot offer him hellish things. Bhagavat-prasāda. We are offering our Bhagavat-prasādam. Nobody is denying. You can offer in the same way. We are not offering tea or coffee. Whatever we have got, take it. So this is artificial. We can avoid all these difficulties. There is no difficulty at all.
Guest (9): No, what I (indistinct) I take but wife takes half, and children, they didn't take it, but they want a cup of coffee. One boy wants cup of coffee, the girl wants a cup of tea and...
Prabhupāda: Well, the...
Guest (9): But the... And when the... That is the... This is the problem...
Prabhupāda: This happened in my life... This happened in my life.
Revatīnandana: Listen. Listen.
Prabhupāda: My wife was taking tea. So I asked her not to take tea, not to take tea. But she didn't care husband. Then I gave her final, that "Either you have to give up your tea or your husband." (laughter) So she agreed to give up husband, not tea. (laughter) So I left my home. That's all. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering. Another suffering: other living creature gives you some pains. There are so many. Some of your friends, he turns to become your enemy. He puts you in difficulty. Or there are so many animals, so many insects. They give us trouble. This is one kind of suffering. Another kind of suffering: by nature's... All of sudden, there is drought. Now, just like, all, in India there is drought. They are suffering. No rain. All of a sudden there is earthquake. That is also suffering. There is some epidemic, pestilence. You cannot check it. So in this way, either of these three, sufferings going on. But those who are sleeping, they cannot understand that this is suffering. Just like animals. They cannot understand. That is sleeping stage. And when one is awakened, he will think "I don't want all these sufferings. Why they are imposed upon me? How I can avoid?" That is intelligence.
Śrutakīrti: Are there other sins beside these four...?
Prabhupāda: These are the basic principle of sinful life. Other sinful activities come out of it. Just like illicit sex life. Illicit relationship of a man and woman, there may be many dangerous things. You see? So the basic principle is the illicit sex life. Now, it can go up to murdering and so many things. So if we avoid the basic principles, the further subsidiary sinful activities automatically stopped.
Father Tanner: But... I haven't remembered the four, but is one of those basic principles concerned with truth?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: Which one?
Prabhupāda: Because...
Father Tanner: Now, it was told... Now I've forgotten the four.
Prabhupāda: Because Veda, Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means truth. Unless you come to the knowledge of truth, your knowledge is not perfect.
Śyāmasundara: If the science is available to everyone without impediment, then there must be the proper teacher, isn't it? There must be a teacher of the science...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...where people learn. That has been a difficulty here. There's been no real teachers until...
Prabhupāda: No, everyone gives his own opinion. Everyone will say... He'll not dare to say that he's speaking right, scientifically. He'll say, "It is my opinion." To avoid any difficulty, he'll say, "In my opinion it is this." I think he's speaking of that, (that) there are so many people, and they have got so many opinions.
Śyāmasundara: How do we know, then, what is the real fact?
Prabhupāda: We have to understand it from a real man who knows it. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Find out that. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. So we have to approach the real person who has seen. Then you'll get the right goal of life.
Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas, to become king, to fight for the protection of the citizens, to become charitably disposed. Everything is described there. These are the kṣatriya's karma. These the brāhmaṇa's karma. These are the, eh, vaiśya's karma. These are the śūdra's karma. So sva-dharma means to execute the prescribed karma. That is sva-dharma. Dharma karma. Dharma means karma, but prescribed. You are brāhmaṇa, you have to act as a brāhmaṇa.
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: You are kṣatriya, you have to act as a kṣatriya. So acting means karma. How you can avoid karma? Bhakti is also karma. Bhakti is also karma. Bhakti, what is this bhakti? Just like we are engaged in devotional service. That service means karma. So they're also rising early in the morning at four 'o clock offering maṅgala-ārati, and then reading books, then chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then taking the class and taking prasādam, then going to outside for performing saṅkīrtana, to distributing books. All day, twenty-four hours karma. So therefore outsiders, they can not understand, that "They're also working like us, they're also selling books, they're going to the press, they're also eating, they're riding motorcar, they're typing, what kind of bhakti it is?" They cannot understand what is bhakti. They think bhakti means, just like "Close your eyes and make some murmuring sound, that is good." Bhakti is not like that.
Popworth: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Hm. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." I was just reading this article. "Cars, Profits and Pollution." So this one side, we make profit, another side, we make pollution. This is the material, result of material activities. Whatever you do. Anything you do material, it is same. In one side, you see, "Oh, there is so much profit," and another side, you'll see so much pollution. Therefore the remedy is to act for spiritual realization. Then you will avoid pollution. The remedy is. If you... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Third Chapter, how we can work for spiritual realization and avoid the pollution of material activities. This is the sum and substance of Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, we do not avoid the material activities, but we become free from the material pollution. This is the secret of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Popworth: How do you envisage one should act, if I may ask that?
Revatīnandana: He said, how do you envisage that one should act. How should one act? He's asking.
Prabhupāda: That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna. He was a kṣatriya, a warrior, but he acted on account of Kṛṣṇa. We are acting, but we are acting at the present moment for our sense gratification. Everyone is thinking that "If I do like this, it will give me great satisfaction." That is my sense gratification. I am acting for my satisfaction, not for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. So when we act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, that is the perfection. Then we save the material pollution. This is the secret. Arjuna is a good example. Before fighting, he was thinking in terms of his own satisfaction. But when he understood Bhagavad-gītā and he agreed to act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then he became perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we do not say immediately to stop. Just like "Cars, Profits and Pollution," the very nice description of these three things. But there is no suggestion of remedy. That he does not know. If he suggested remedy, "Now stop all cars driving," or "Stop this nonsense business," that is impossible. That is craziness. So we do not say that you stop it. But we say, purify it. Just like there is pollution. So pollution is there. You cannot stop manufacturing cars or driving cars. That is not possible. But you can purify the pollution. That is possible.
Revatīnandana: The distinction between killing a cow and cutting off a cauliflower from a plant. He said, "Both are alive." Yes, both are alive. But what is the psychological state of a cow, and what is the psychological state of a cauliflower plant? Practically speaking, he has no psychology. No senses, no mind, no ability to feel elation or suffering. But a cow is a completely different condition. Cow is very nearly to human consciousness. Practically the next birth after a cow, according to the Vedas, is a human birth. So you're putting so much suffering unnecessarily. But he had no sense, not... An intelligent man who can sense that "If I suffer, I don't like it," then when he sees another living entity put into suffering, he thinks, "How I could avoid that suffering for that living entity, because I don't like to suffer." But this gentleman had no conception. He's...
Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street. Don't touch it. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And treat all living entities as you want to be treated. If one has got these three qualifications, he is learned man. He does not say, one who has got this BAC, DAC degrees, and so on, so on, so on. No. The result of his education is to be seen by three manifestations: treating all women as mother; treating others' money, property, as garbage, as rubbish in the street; and treating all living entities as you want to be treated yourself. If one has attained these three development of knowledge, he is learned. There is no question of literary education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. So if we covet other's wife, if we eat meat, if we indulge in intoxication, if we indulge in gambling, we are polluting the whole society. So how we can expect purification unless we accept these principles? You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. As long as you maintain a slaughterhouse, then there'll be people to breed animals to supply to the house of slaughter.
Prabhupāda: It is nice.
Haṁsadūta: As soon as there's no more slaughterhouse, then the animals are free. They can go everywhere.
Popworth: I think you are avoiding the point.
Revatīnandana: No. It's the solution. If you want to stop that treatment of animals, you stop the slaughterhouse. Otherwise, first you keep them in the field to slaughter. That's already brute mentality. That brute mentality means next I think, "I could get more flesh if I didn't let this cow move. So let me keep him in a case, cage, in the dark so they have lighter meat." This is one stage of brute mentality to another stage of brute mentality. The next stage of brute mentality... They're already killing the unborn child. Now, next, the child is born. That's the next stage of brute mentality. That is predicted in the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Now, their theory is that when the child comes out of the womb, then he gets the soul. Is it not?
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not within the womb.
Yogeśvara: His point was that human beings, they think on higher platforms than animals do.
Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?
Dr. Inger: Quite. And this basis, which is the essence of everything.
Prabhupāda: Three things only.
Dr. Inger: Yes. That is one thing they want to avoid.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their nonsense.
Dr. Inger: In other words, everything else is a plan or an excuse to escape from yourself.
Prabhupāda: That means it is a association of cheaters and cheated. Somebody wants to cheat and somebody's being cheated. That's all. That is our opinion. So how the association of cheaters and cheated can do anything good to the human society? They're cheaters. They do not know how this peace has to be attained, and they're trying to attain peace in their own way. Therefore they're cheaters. You do not a subject matter, how to do it, and you're trying to do it, that means you are cheater. It may be very strong words, but the fact is there. Why should you try something which you do not know adequately? That is our protest.
Haṁsadūta: They hear some music.
Prabhupāda: Just see. That is the evidence of God. Where is in the śāstra that by pushing eyes, Kṛṣṇa showed some light, and somebody...? He never did with Arjuna like that. He showed His gigantic universal form. But He never showed some light. So what is this nonsense? So we must make some propa..., counter-propaganda. Because you spoke several things about him, but you did not make any counter-propaganda upon him. You have studied him, but you have never made any counter-propaganda.
Haṁsadūta: Well we have, whenever they come, whenever we meet them.
Prabhupāda: No, whenever you are meeting, "this rascal is going on as God. This is mistaken. What profit...?" You have to speak there. What proof is there? So consult with Bhagavān dāsa and begin this propaganda. I have no time... Therefore, I say: "I do not know this man. That's all right." To avoid. But in a meeting, and you are going saṅkīrtana. People are coming, talking with you. So you make some propaganda, counter-propaganda. Although, practically, he'll be finished, there is no doubt. Two, three years. The Maharishi Mahesh yogi, also became very... Nobody cares for him now. (end)
Prabhupāda: Well, if the danger is there, why should we accept such use?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we overcome that danger? We can try to overcome that danger.
Prabhupāda: You cannot ever overcome, because you are all weak. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Unless you are very strong, māyā is very, very stronger than you. How you can avoid it? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante. Only one is very, very strong in capturing the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he can avoid. Otherwise it is not possible. All these Villa Parle, Juhu gentlemen, they are daily coming to their city business. And is it very difficult for us?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have an office, though, in the city where they come to.
Prabhupāda: Office means their business is office. But your business is begging. Your business is not office. Your business is not... They have to direct so many things from there. That we can do. Besides that... Anyway, even they have got office, they come from in Bombay, Calcutta, even from hundred miles away. So if there is no such program, Deity worship, regulative principles, then it will be a joint mess. Hotel. Transcendental hotel. And transcendental fraud. This will go on. The business will be transcendental fraud, and life will be transcendental hotel. (Break) ...twenty, twenty-five. So these women devotees, they are given cāpāṭis by the bābājīs. Kṣurasya dhārā. Actually it is like that. A sharpened razor, A little inattention, immediately blood. Kṣurasya dhārā niśitā duratyayā durgaṁ pathas tat kavayo vadanti (?). That is the risk. Nowadays modern civilization, as we are accepting, there is jeep, there is telephone, everything is there. One can conduct his activities from anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect. Here you cannot expect everyone as brāhmaṇa, in this material world. That is not possible. Because in the material world three qualities are working. So one may be brāhmaṇa, another may be kṣatriya, another may be vaiśya, another may... So they should cooperate. Then everyone's life will be perfect. That is the program. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are creating brāhmaṇas. So others, they should cooperate. Then their life will be also perfect. Just like these people are preaching that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and refrain from sinful activities." So if people take advice from these men, simple thing... Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not difficult. Anyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And no illicit sex life. No... Even one cannot follow these restrictions, if he chants, he will be benefited. But if he chants and follows these restrictive rules, then he will be perfect in this life. And that is not difficulty. Suppose if I do not eat meat. We are not eating meat. We are not dying. We are eating so many nice things, prepared from vegetables, grains, milk. So that is not very important thing, that one has to eat meat and commit sinful life. So anyone can avoid it. They are not smoking, they are not drinking, they are not dying. So without smoking or without drinking, nobody will die.
Prabhupāda: Make note there.
Pradyumna: Translation?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once."
Prabhupāda: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of māyā. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Prabhupāda: That is material life. As soon as they get some opportunity, they will have sex. That is the only hope. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). Here the only happiness is sex. Otherwise they are working so hard like asses. Why? Only for that sex. The only aim is "I will enjoy sex at night." That's all. That is the only aim. Yan maithunādi. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. They are attracted with the most abominable thing, sex life. Yes. Tuccham. Tuccham means very abominable, very insignificant thing. The position of the sex, the... How nasty it is! Just like crows, they enjoy in a nasty place. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tad vāyasa-tīrtham. Vāyasa means crows. The crows, as they enjoy... (break) gṛham andha-kūpam, ātma-pātam. As soon as you fall down, you are killed. You are killed. This example is given. That is stated in Bhāgavata. When a woman comes to serve you, you must know it is covered well. As soon as you fall down, then you are finished. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Therefore in the Vedic system first brahmacārī, become brahmacārī. Learn how to avoid sex, celibacy. That is first instruction. And if you are completely unable, all right, get yourself married. Otherwise there is no need of sex life. Why one should have sex life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then how to continue the species?
Prabhupāda: Why you will continue? You finish it, this condemned world, where you are simply suffering. Why should you continue it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's eating.
Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court: "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed." Just see how rascal they are.
Prof. Wolfe: It is a question whether this "Thou shalt not kill" does not also include all our animal brothers and sisters.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prof. Wolfe: I think it should also include that. Because "Thou shalt not kill" is just not kill creatures, not only men. But apart from that, they do not even follow it where men come in. They kill. They do.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Prabhupāda: But they cannot produce. That is the difficulty. They'll speak all nonsense, but cannot produce. No experiment. Simply theoretical observation. That's all. So observation is not perfection of science. You must produce it by experiment. Then it is perfect. Two departments.
Hṛdayānanda: So if you can produce something, that means you actually understand it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it is a combination of such and such chemicals... Just like these rascals say, "Life..." Now he said that "You take the chemicals. Can you produce?" He said, "That I cannot say." You see? Avoiding the issue. This was discussed in the meeting. What is that gentleman?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Professor Stanley Miller. He's from San Diego, physicist.
Prabhupāda: Miller. Yes, he has got Nobel Prize. And his theory is that from chemicals, life has begun. So he said in the meeting that "If I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say." Just see. And he has got Nobel Prize. He has no pure idea, still he has received the Nobel Prize.
Prajāpati: Number one speculator.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: They're giving prize to the number one speculator.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Jugglery of words. That's all. Speculation means jugglery of words. Just like doctors prescribe. They give the medicine, and then water mixed. So they will never say "water" because ordinary people will understand. They'll write "aqua distillata." So ordinary man cannot understand whether it is water or medicine. But that is water. But they'll... So these scientists, they'll manufacture some word which you cannot understand... "Vyāghra mane śārdūla." One student asked the teacher, "What is the meaning of 'vyāghra' ?" He said, "Śārdūla." It is still difficult. You see ? This is going on.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prajāpati: The Māyāvādīs, they not only misunderstand the nature of the Absolute, they misunderstand the function of the jīva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When one misunderstands, he misunderstands everything. One who commits mistake, he can commit mistakes in so many ways. They want to merge into the Absolute. They think that there is no variety, to avoid this variety. Ah? Just like sometimes one is suffering from some disease, they commit suicide. He thinks, "I'm suffering. If I commit suicide, then everything will be stopped." But he does not know that by committing suicide he'll increase another set of varieties of miserable conditions of life. He'll become ghost. And becoming ghost, you cannot enjoy anything grossly. The subtle body will create disturbance. Therefore ghost creates disturbance. He hasn't got gross body to enjoy. They're ghostly haunted; therefore a male ghost haunts over woman, woman ghost haunts over man. You know that? It so happens. Ghostly haunted.
Bali Mardana: ...they are all running away.
Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home, nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. (break) You avoid death, there is no death. Viṣaya.(?) If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... No more death. Finished death. This is a fact. (break) ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition. And the changing of the body, that is momentary, that is all.
Bali Mardana: So our service is deathless.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Deathless...
Bali Mardana: Devotional service.
Prabhupāda: ...yes, this is deathless position.
Bali Mardana: But if we stop serving...
Prabhupāda: You admit or not, theologian? (devotee laughs) Eh? Eh? Or you have got anything to say? This is deathlessness.
Candanācārya: Also...
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you love children for making them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is loving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So if you help... What is our movement? Why I have come to your country? Because to make you Kṛṣṇa conscious. So there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why what is the business, I have come to you? I have no business. Because I love Kṛṣṇa, I want to see all, everybody in the world to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise why in this old age we are trying so much? Similarly, if you love your children to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children and make them. That is love of Kṛṣṇa. And if you make them cats and dogs, then one children producing is also sinful. That is also sinful. But if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children. That is Kṛṣṇa's love. The Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. "One should not become father, one should not become mother..." na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum, "...if he cannot deliver the children from the imminent hands of death." That is the condition. So if you cannot make... Death cannot be avoided unless one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if you cannot make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious and stop their death, birth and death process, then don't become a father. This is the injunction. And if you can actually do that, then become father of hundreds children. This is the condition. If you cannot make your children... If you can make, that is love of Kṛṣṇa. Because unless you love Kṛṣṇa, why you should be interested to make others Kṛṣṇa conscious? Let them go to hell. Why you should be so much working hard to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious? Unless you love Kṛṣṇa? This is the sign of love." I love Kṛṣṇa, but I do nothing for Kṛṣṇa." That is nonsense. That is nonsense. Therefore I said that our Guru Mahārāja's brother, he criticizes Guru Mahārāja. But what he has done for Kṛṣṇa? And what my Guru Mahārāja has done? Unless my Guru Mahārāja had produced me, how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going all over the world? And what he has done? Simply criticizing is no use. We want to see practical. Do you understand or not?
Candanācārya: Yes.
Bali Mardana: They say it is an accident, that the world is going to the...
Prabhupāda: They are rascals. Therefore I always say, "Kick them on their face with your shoes, so-called scientists." "Accident." There is no question of accident. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, narādhama. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. Because they got this opportunity to appreciate the work of Kṛṣṇa, but they avoid it, they are narādhama. No, they are so big, big graduate, scientists, and..." māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Their real knowledge is taken away, simply childish proposing something, so-called scientists. Real knowledge is to see everywhere Kṛṣṇa, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). The supervision of Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Not only to appreciate, but to explain it also. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will appreciate, but cannot explain how it is being done. Madhyama-adhikārī will explain. That is preacher. And uttama-adhikārī, he thinks that everyone knows, everyone knows. He does not see that somebody knows, somebody does not know. He sees everyone knows. That is uttama-adhikārī. He does not make any distinction.
Bali Mardana: He does not preach.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No. He's paramahaṁsa. Does not preach means he preaches, but he comes to the second-class platform. The first-class platform means he does not make any distinction between devotee and nondevotee. He sees everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: It's better this way.
Jayapatākā: Let's go down this side, this way.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: (break) ...body when it's old and wears out, and yet they're spending all their energy...
Prabhupāda: No, he desires. He creates his body. Just like the, sometimes the Mohammedans, they think that tiger is the best life. Sera. Sera. Wa (?) sera haya. Means to become a tiger is the perfection of..." You become sera. That's all. Kṛṣṇa gives... He is within the heart. "All right, I'll give you chance. Become a sera." But when he becomes sera, he does not eat for months. You'll never find a sera very fatty. Because he cannot eat. Every animal knows, "There is a tiger." They avoid. By chance, he can hunt out.
Viṣṇujana: Farrow.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Viṣṇujana: The farrow bird.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Viṣṇujana: He'll call.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. "You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood." All facility is—the nails, the teeth-given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that "If I could become like this, I would have been happy." So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. "All right, you become this." This is transmigration. This is transmigration. (break) ...yathāndhair upa... We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, "All right, you take this chance; you become like this." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. "You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma."
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, but they can say it is added and subtracted. They're... But they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā. Yes.
Brahmānanda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). There is no adulteration there. Very simple.
Prabhupāda: So you, all Indians, you have to do this. This is simply a plea to avoid. In Bengal, everyone knows Caitanya Mahāprabhu was for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (4): But so far, most of them, perhaps, also wanted informations regarding, full informations regarding ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: ISKCON. That is a short-cut of "International Society for Krishna Consciousness."
Guest (4): No, that I know, myself. They wanted to know, in their own language, etc... And for that I meant...
Prabhupāda: No, it is, it is...
Guest (4): ...a sort of booklet in local dialect, in the Bengali. To be more propagated.
Prabhupāda: So I can give you the hints. You prepare a leaflet immediately, and we publish.
Dr. Patel: All astronauts...
Prabhupāda: ...he was received by Nehru? Eh?
Dr. Patel: Might have. All astronauts, they have got no sex desire. All of them. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...still asiddha... So do you mean to say by avoiding sex life one becomes siddha?
Dr. Patel: That is what they do, but that is what...
Prabhupāda: That is your standard?
Dr. Patel: ...as far as sex is concerned, they are siddhas.
Prabhupāda: Then impotents are all siddhas. (laughter) All the impotent persons, they're all siddhas.
Dr. Patel: That is, in a way, they are.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dr. Patel: Niḥspṛha-cetanaṁ jagat...
Guest (1): No, those have controlled their sex intercourse are...
Prabhupāda: No. Siddhas means in spite of agitation, he's not agitated. That is siddha. That is siddha.
Prabhupāda: Pitā na sa syāt. (Hindi) Pitā na sa syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Pitā, father must be, he must be father who can deliver his son from the impending death. So one can avoid this repetition of birth and death only becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. So any father who gives chance to his children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's real father. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt... na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. (break) ...there is a verse:
- janame janame sab pitā-mātā pāya
kṛṣṇa-guru nāhi mile bhaja ei bhāi (?)
In every birth one can get father and mother, but to get the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible in every birth. That is only possible in this human form. The cats and dogs, they have got their father and mother. Therefore if we become father, mother like cats and dogs, there is no need of such... Kṛṣṇa-guru nāhi mile bhaja... The father helps the children to achieve Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is real father. (break) ...they avoid that trap, they avoid association of women. But these women are not ordinary women. They are preachers. They are preachers. They are Vaiṣṇava. By their association, one becomes a Vaiṣṇava. (end)
Dr. Patel: Yudhya means "do your activity."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But always think. Just like these people are, these, they are doing that. They are doing their duty. Somebody's going to there, somebody's going there, somebody's there... But their chanting is there. That is not avoided. That is not avoided. Sadā tad bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Then Kṛṣṇa favors, "Yes, he has done his best."
Chandobhai: Tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu... (BG 8.7).
Prabhupāda: Ah!
Dr. Patel: Yudhya ca. Yudhya ca.
Chandobhai: Mayy arpita-mano buddhir mām evaiśyasy asaṁśayaḥ (BG 8.7).
Prabhupāda: Ah! Asaṁśayaḥ. Because his mind is in Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter he's fighting. Fighting is superfluous. Real thing is mind is in Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: That is bhramara-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Bhramara-nyāya. Because the small ant... (break)
Chandobhai: ...nānya-gāminā.
Dr. Patel: Abhyāsa-yoga, by... We explained that...
Prabhupāda: One... Abhyāsa-yoga... You practice this. Therefore we say, "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." This is abhyāsa-yoga. When one becomes attached to chanting, he doesn't require to be under discipline. But so long he's not practiced, he must be under... Just like a boy. He's instructed by the teacher, "You must give me at least four pages handwriting." So four pages handwriting means writing, writing, he'll be practiced. So therefore these are the practice.
Indian man: Yes. You can recognize here. But now they are changed completely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the girl has no this covering, that means she is virgin. She is not married. In this way all the signs are there. This is prosita bhartrka. Prosita-bhartrka means one whose husband is not at home, outside. Then she will not dress, she will not take regular bath, so that people may know that her husband is not at home.
Śrīdhara: She won't take bath?
Prabhupāda: Not, take bath not with any oil. Yes. Means she wanted to avoid very good looking. Yes, that is the idea.
Śrīdhara: "But although Rohiṇī's husband was away, she still dressed herself on this occasion."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...deliver each and every child to Kamsa, but in the case of Kṛṣṇa he did not do so. He did not deliver. He cheated him by changing. So to give protection to Kṛṣṇa, they had to do something, even it is not sanctioned. He violated because he promised before Kaṁsa that "I shall deliver all the children," and he did it. But when there was Kṛṣṇa, he broke the promise.
Śrīdhara: "Vasudeva continued, 'My dear friend it is very difficult...' "
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vasudeva is very jubilant that Kṛṣṇa is now alive and His birthday ceremony has been performed. Therefore he is so pleased.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to say that "Sex life is so strong that even if I see one wooden female form I become excited."
Dr. Patel: I feel the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is not unnatural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu tells this because this cannot be avoided. But by knowledge it can be avoided.
Dr. Patel: We were talking the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, by knowledge. Yes. But "Because I am excited, therefore I have to do this," that is not good.
Dr. Patel: But then I found out the solution for this. As soon as you feel excitement... (break) Then you have nothing to do with it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore knowledge.
Dr. Patel: That I have started practicing this for some time. And I feel a great solace in that.
Prabhupāda: That has been recommended by Śaṅkarācārya, that "Why you are attracted by these forms? It is only a combination of flesh and marrow. That's all."
Dr. Patel: ...maybe an African or Indian?
Prabhupāda: No, Indian.
Dr. Patel: African, after all. Americans must be first. (static interference) ...politically conscious Africans.
Prabhupāda: We have got about ten African devotees now in Nairobi branch. (break) ...to material sense enjoyment. Such persons cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...avoid the dictation of the senses. But when a man is able to dictate the senses, then he is gosvāmī.
Dr. Patel: That is?
Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī.
Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Pañcadraviḍa: Usually, though, it is the children. They gamble for cookies and candy and things like this.
Prabhupāda: No, children they learn it from their parents. Otherwise they do not know. (break) ...by memory, by mercifulness... People are not so merciful now. Suppose in your presence somebody is being killed. You avoid to stand there. No more merciful. What to speak of the animals? If a man is killed, nobody will take care. I have heard it in America that if somebody is killed or attacked, nobody will go to help. Is it not?
Mahāṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So the mercifulness has gone. And what to speak of religiosity? That is completely gone. These things will reduce: mercifulness, religiosity, memory, bodily strength, and so many, eight, eight. They are mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Religious principles.
Pañcadraviḍa: And you were writing that it is just a little bit of truthfulness is left.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You secure dhātun from the tree. Ask them. The three dhātun they gave, that is finished. (break) ...water is full, one can take bath.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and some European, one European was coming. So as soon as we face to face, so I had to get down. They forced me.
Dr. Patel: You know that way they behaved with Gandhiji in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Beaten him like anything. He would have died. (break) Fisher's, Fisherman's island. "I shall again turn them into fisherman's island."
Dr. Patel: British people is the fisherman's island.
Prabhupāda: Germany is the bitterest enemy of Britain.
Dr. Patel: Stalin.
Prabhupāda: No, Germany, whole Germany. They do not like to speak in English also. Yes, I have seen it. Even they know English, they'll not speak. In the bank they could speak a little, little English, but they avoid. Then I took... What is that boy that first went to...?
Bhāgavata: Śivānanda.
Prabhupāda: Śivānanda. Then I... Śivānanda talked in German. (break) ...two wars is due to Germany's hatred to Britain. That's all. There was always competition in colonization between France, Holland...
Dr. Patel: German. All of them.
Prabhupāda: No, not Germany. Not Germany. Germany never tried for colonization.
Prabhupāda: Or to kill the demon, that is His mercy. Both of them. It is not that materially, as we think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is taking side of this man and killing this man." No. Still, He is neutral, absolute.
Brahmānanda: The sahajiyās, they don't know that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Brahmānanda: Sahajiyās, they just go towards like the rasa-līlā, and they avoid the demon killing.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Brahmānanda: The sahajiyās.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are rascals. Kick them out. They think everything is easy.
Dr. Patel: What is sahajiyā?
Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā... Sahaj means easy. Easy-going. They will smoke cigarette at the same time they will play rasa-līlā. This is sahajiyā. This is sahajiyā. They will do all nonsense; still, they will become God, imitation of God.
Yadubara: "Nārada Muni wanted to impress upon people in general that Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. His activities such as His appearance..." (break)
Prabhupāda: He played also. (Hindi) We used to say chor chor kela: "Catch up the feet." (Hindi) (break) ...and wonderful things, as they are mentioned, they were all manufactured by the demons.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
O'Grady: Because of your physical existence...
Prabhupāda: Unavoidable, yes...
O'Grady: And your personal spiritualism as well.
Prabhupāda: But it can be avoided in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the leaf of lily. It is in the water but it does not touches the water.
O'Grady: I didn't catch that last expression, no.
Bhagavān: Lily leaf.
Yogeśvara: To show how we can live in this world but still be transcendental.
Bhagavān: There's a lily leaf that sits on the water and even though it sits on the water it doesn't get wet.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Prabhupāda is explaining we can be in this world...
O'Grady: But I don't think you can explain situations in one realm, in one area, in the terminology of situations in another one. Because if you put this element and this element together, you get salt. Now, if human nature was the same with that element in that person and that element in that person, you should also get salt. So if you've got fifty million elements and fifty million elements here you should get a mountain of salt.
Atreya Ṛṣi: If you can try to understand this example.
O'Grady: Oh, I can, understand.
Prabhupāda: What is that, salt? Salt example was... Explain.
Prabhupāda: So we forbid our students to refrain from four sinful activities: No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, and no intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee or smoking. They are also intoxicants. And no gambling. These four principles, they avoid completely. And as it is recommended in this book, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manā. "Just become My devotee. Just offer your obeisances unto Me, and just worship Me." Four principles. If you follow these four principles without any offense, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. So for remembering God, you chant always God's name on these beads.
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
(buzzer sounds) And we worship... (pause) (one man is apparently showing pictures) This is also a church?
Monsignor Verrozano: This is Japan. This is from Tibet. Also a gift of Dalai Lama.
Prabhupāda: Buddhism.
Monsignor Verrozano: Buddhist, but this is from India.
Prabhupāda: This is Hindu temple.
Yogeśvara: But people are objecting that: If we cannot get divorced, then we are forced to live with each other even if we hate each other."
Prabhupāda: But hate each other, that's all right. We say what is the use of your sexual intercourse? That is animalism. You avoid it. Our Vedic civilization is to avoid it. Therefore they remain brahmacārī, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī, no sexual intercourse in the whole life. That is perfection.
Yogeśvara: But that's not possible for the mass of people.
Prabhupāda: No, why not possible? We have got so many, just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He remained completely brahmacārī, although naked he is. He is. He doesn't require, and neither he is agitated. Just like when he was passing, the girls were taking bath. They did not take care. They knew that he is not at all affected by any woman. And when his father was going, they covered. So father inquired, Vyāsadeva, a personality like Vyāsadeva, said, "Why you covered? I am old man, and my young son he was passing naked." They said that "He is paramahaṁsa. He has no agitation of the mind. But you are gṛhastha. You live with woman. You have got distinction, man and woman." So this is civilization. What is the use of sex life? It is simply entanglement. Therefore, at the last stage, one is supposed to become sannyāsī. What is sannyāsī? Vānaprastha, sannyāsī, brahmacārī—no sex life. Out of the four different status of life, the brahmacārī has no sex life, the vānaprastha has no sex life, the sannyāsī has no sex life. Only the gṛhastha. That means it is prohibitory. It is allowed—it is simply concession to the person who cannot remain without sex life. It is simply a concession.
Dhanañjaya: Tottenham Court Road. Yes, that big one. Central Point.
Prabhupāda: Yes (laughing). His kleśada is if he keeps tenant, that is more miserable than without keeping tenant. Is it not? Yes. Therefore he keeps without. Because so much taxes will have to be paid that it will be more miserable than keeping tenants. So he is avoiding that. So while constructing, it was troublesome; now, keeping this, it is also troublesome. To find out pleasure they have manufactured so many things. But still, they cannot enjoy it. For few minutes they can enjoy; again it is nonsense. "Let us go away." (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...that I can actually become a bird or a dog because...
Prabhupāda: What are these... Wherefrom these birds and dogs are coming? Let them answer. Wherefrom they are coming?
Nitāi: Well, they would say from other birds and dogs.
Prabhupāda: Yes, other birds or these birds, wherefrom they are coming?
Satsvarūpa: But that's not my condition. I am a human being.
Prabhupāda: Occidental means eastern, er, western? Yes.
Nitāi: Western.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all western. They have taken to it. They have given up all such habits. In the beginning they were coming to me with their girlfriends, boyfriends. I said, "No, you cannot stay like that." So they agreed. I have got them married personally. They have got children. If you want to live as gṛhastha, live. If you want to live as vānaprastha or as sannyāsa... So generally, young men, young girls, I get them married. There is no harm. Married life, sex life, that is allowed in the śāstra. But not illicit sex. That is not allowed. If one remains sinful, he cannot make any progress of spiritual life. That is not possible. This is bogus, that you remain sinful and at the same time make spiritual progress. That is not possible. Otherwise, why there is distinction of sinful and pious life? You must be pious life. And the basic principle of pious life is this, avoid these four sinful life: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. They are sinful life. So one cannot make any progress in spiritual life who is habituated to act sinfully. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Reaction. Everything... Yajñārthe karmaṇo yatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Whatever you do, you are bound up by the reaction. That is nature's law. (break) ...and occasionally there will be big war, and they'll kill themselves. That's all. Now they are killing animals. That is a separate from human being. But time will come, the human beings, they will kill themselves, one another. Not only one, two, but wholesale. Daily, millions or thousands will be killed. They want to avoid war. For that reason, they invented the United Nations. Eh?
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So why they want to avoid war? What is the reason?
Bhagavān: For avoiding war?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: They want to maintain their pleasure.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why encroach upon others' pleasure? Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). Īśopaniṣad says, "Don't encroach upon others' pleasure."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It is like the people: they say that the air is very polluted. We cannot breathe it now. And they will smoke cigarettes also.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually, our preaching work is when we show people how, by avoiding Kṛṣṇa, they actually kill themselves.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Suicidal. Ātma-han. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Knowingly, I am drinking poison. Knowingly. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu.
- hari hari! bifale janama goṅāinu
manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,
- jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu
- Biṣa khāinu means drinking poison. (pause)
Paramahaṁsa: Although a devotee feels helpless in the hands of Kṛṣṇa, still, in order to execute his duty, he must be very strong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: How does he reconcile those two?
Prabhupāda: He must work for Kṛṣṇa. He is not doing anything for himself. He's doing for Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa's sake, one can take any kind of risk. Just like the karmīs, they take any kind of risk for earning some money similarly, bhakta also will take any kind of risk to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. So it is not very clean.
Haṁsadūta: His point was actually that God had no name, otherwise He would be a person. But I think you missed that point.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, I stressed that if God has no name, then why Christ said that "Hallowed be Thy name"?
Professor Durckheim: Well, he explained from his theologian point of view, when Moses was asking God, "Who is Thy name?" God didn't give a name but said only, "I am who I am." And then He explained if in the prayer one says, "Blessed be thy name," they use this in order to avoid a direct name. So just only say, "The name." But I don't understand the whole thing because the word God already is... What do you want more? And I believe that in the Christian religion, everybody just says God. They think the word God is the name and nothing more needed.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not very good sense, that president, president of America. People say " 'President' is sufficient." Then why "Mr. Nixon"? They are all fools? No, they say, "Mr. Nixon," sometimes they say, and sometimes, "the President." Rather, they say more "Mr. Nixon" than "the President." Why?
Professor Durckheim: Sure. But I only can say...
Prabhupāda: So this argument, this argument is not very sensible argument.
Devotee (1): "Without envy"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
This material nature can be avoided only by one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, it is not possible. That example is given by Rāmānanda Rāya. He is touching naked woman, washing, dressing, touching, because he is not in the material world. That is the example given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In the material world, as soon as you think of woman, you will be (indistinct). In the spiritual world, you can touch even a naked, beautiful, young woman but you will be (indistinct). That is the difference. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yaśodānandana: I think he just wants to mention that it is more difficult for people who are elderly to understand, those who are more set up in their ways.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is the difficulty. They are trained up in such a way that it's very difficult to forget what they have learned. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret prajñaḥ, from the very beginning of life one should learn this art of understanding Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's plan.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, usually on saṅkīrtana I avoid old people because they just don't understand, and it's very difficult to approach them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Old people should be instructed to forget what they have learned. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. This is the formula of preaching. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he is begging to the people, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāham bravīmi: "Taking a straw in my mouth, with folded hands and flattering you hundred times, I am submitting one request." "What is that?" This is the process of approaching these rascals, old fools who have learned something and does not like to forget. So he says, he sādhavaḥ: "Oh, you are such a nice learned scholar-devotee, so my request is that whatever you have learned, please forget." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt: "Kick them out." "Then? What shall I do?" Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Please turn your attention to the teachings of Lord Caitanya." He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya: "You are very great personality. So my request to you: you forget or kick out whatever you have learned." That is the first business.
Guest (5): Suppose he is reincarnated?
Prabhupāda: No, no, "dies" means the body dies. The soul does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body annihilates... Body becomes old. Just like this cloth. I am using it, but when it will be old, no more useful, then I throw it away. I get another dress. This body is like that. Soul is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. It does not die, it does not take birth, but because he is in material condition, therefore he has to change the material body because no material thing is permanent. Therefore the aim of life should be how to avoid this material body. That is real business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is only business, how to stop acceptance of this material body. And that is very clearly and simply stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We can do that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are not going to accept any more material body. That means there is no more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more, and what is called, old age.
Guest (4): But is it possible to lead the life of a gṛhastha and at the same time think of that?
Prabhupāda: Well, Arjuna was gṛhastha and a king and a politician. If he could learn within half an hour the aim of life, then where is the difficulty for a gṛhastha? Arjuna was not a sannyāsī. So it was spoken to him only, and Kṛṣṇa selected that "You are the right person." So there is no question of gṛhastha, sannyāsī. The person must be right to understand.
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul. Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?" And we should remain in our eternal body because I am eternal, but psychologically I am simply changing different forms of body, and at the time of change of body I have to undergo so many sufferings. To remain within the womb of the mother for ten months in packed up condition, it is a very terrible punishment. But for each new birth, we have to undertake this terrible suffering. Sometimes nowadays they're being killed. So to avoid all these dangers, one should try to remain in his spiritual body so that there will be no more chance of accepting material... Find out this, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).
Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: He's saying, "What is sin, then?"
Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue. (break)
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: I'm going to translate piece by piece so I can tell you exactly what he's saying. He's saying that he understands perfectly well that a human being should look for a way for self-control and to control the physical force within him, but there's also another dimension in the human being which is a social dimension which also has to be taken care of.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the social dimension is described, cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Find out this verse.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.
Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.
Vīrabāhu: Oh, yes, that is what happens. When one starts speaking of God, they just...
Prabhupāda: So long you have not solved the four prominent miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age and disease, you cannot say there is no God. There is controller who is forcing you to accept these conditions. Therefore there is authority. How you can avoid this?
Vīrabāhu: They say, "Some day. Some day we will do."
Prabhupāda: Some day, rascal, somebody will come and kick your face with shoes. (laughter)
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, if we go back this way, we'll get back around the right time.
Prabhupāda: Why so soon?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...accept that they are controlled?
Vīrabāhu: They have many contradiction because I learned also that...
Prabhupāda: No, what is contradiction? Everyone is being controlled. Where is contradiction?
Vīrabāhu: One day they say one thing; one day they say something else.
Prabhupāda: That means rascal. That means rascal. One day something, one day..., that means the rascals. Just like yesterday or day before yesterday, "Maybe, perhaps." And "You cannot talk because you have no knowledge. You say, 'Perhaps, maybe.' What is the value of your knowledge? Don't talk."
Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: This nonsense thing has created all problems. Therefore Vedic civilization is—first teaching is brahmacārī—how to learn to avoid sex life. If one can continue without sex life he is praised, naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. If one cannot, all right you become a perfect gṛhastha. So many rules and regulations. Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāma, that is all right, but if you use sex life for sense gratification and becomes implicated in so many sinful activities, then how he'll be happy? A sinful man cannot become happy, that is not possible. All our sinful activities, the so-called scientists are helping, "Yes, you can do this." And the church is sanctioning. This is going on. The Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are now teaching, "yes, you can kill the child. You have killed cows and so many things, that is all right. Again you kill your child."
Guest (1): Swami, can I ask you a very silly question which has been asked to us a lot of times and we don't have a satisfactory answer, to whit: why is the cow sacred and not the other animals?
Prabhupāda: Because it gives milk.
Guest (1): They have been steeped in ignorance for such a long time, it will take a long time to bring them into the fold of spiritualism.
Prabhupāda: No, it has been made easy by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That you don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't commit sinful life, that's all. And sinful life we have given them, no illicit sex—we don't say, "no sex"—no illicit sex, no illicit sex, no meat eating. Suppose... They are not now eating meat, are they unhealthy? They are known now as bright-faced. So no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. This is avoiding sinful life. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you see the result? Do you see the result? Within four, five years how they have advanced. Not that they're Vedantists or they have studied all the Vedas, not that. Simple thing. Have you ever come here in the evening when they perform ārati, kīrtana? Just see how ecstatic it is. Simple thing. Don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, bas. You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi, the evidence is here, jagāi mādhāi. So not that Jagāi, Mādhāi five hundred years ago, now see at the present moment. They did not come to me after studying all the Vedas, and Vedantists. They come to me, I ask them that, "Don't commit these sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."That's all. Everyone can do, even the child can do. So you are all educated men, you study this philosophy, try to understand, also join. It is your duty, because you are Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission to the Indians.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Atreya Ṛṣi: As soon as it goes over the term, it's unapproved.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then a loan where you're paying on time, is that considered a debt?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's a loan. That has to be approved. That has to be, as much as possible, avoided. In other words, everything you're doing, more or less, on cash basis.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: You don't depend on tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.
Jayatīrtha: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.
Prabhupāda: Legal matter. So I want to protect BBT.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Legally, you will want. But, in fact, GBC is also concerned...
Prabhupāda: That you are concerned. You do this—now how to stop these complaints.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now they want to maintain from the GBC income. How this can be avoided, you consider.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It is not something we forget because it's BBT.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But these are the important problems, that the, here in India, the members are complaining. Sometimes they are sending complaining to me. So the first business is how to, how the collection from the membership is being dispersed, how the money is being dispersed. Suppose I... He is a member. I take him, 222. Then how the money is being spent? So you see first of all that...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a GBC matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is GBC matter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (aside:) Stop that also. (break) ...kṛpana bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. Otherwise, there is no need of gṛhastha life. But everything can be used to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is another thing. Actually, to become free from all responsibility and anxieties, if one remains a brahmacārī, that is very good. That is the recommendation of śāstra. But if you cannot... Because the material world is going on under sex impulse, by nature the sex impulse is there. He will agitate you. But if you can control by becoming a rigid brahmacārī, that is better. But it is difficult. Therefore this concession is given. But what is this concession? The concession is sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is an itching sensation. And after satisfying the itching sensation, there are so many responsibilities and trouble. But tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ. Those who are kṛpanāḥ, does not know how to utilize this life... So once I have taken to sex life and I am suffering so many after... Of course, now to stop the suffering, the have invented this contraceptive method. He knows there is suffering, but they, in order to avoid this suffering, they're taking this contraceptive method. And that is also suffering. That he does not know. Bhrun hatyā. Contraceptive method means killing the embryo. So that is also another sinful. He's taking so much responsibilities. So either you take contraceptive method or do not take contraceptive method... If you do not take, then the child is born. Then you have to take responsibility. Now they're killing the child, in this way becoming implicated. But if one is trained up to remain a rigid brahmacārī, there is no trouble.
Guest (2): Even Indians, the same. I...
Prabhupāda: The Indians, European, doesn't matter. The whole human society is like that.
Haṁsadūta: His idea is why should we make this sex life so cumbersome by marriage?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Avoid it.
Haṁsadūta: It's a natural thing just to have sex.
Guest (2): You are following your principles, the four principles...
Prabhupāda: Avoid it. They are regularly advertising. I have seen in Dallas, "topless, bottomless," like that.
Haṁsadūta: Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: They do not know. What can be done. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti (BG 7.25). They do not know that behind everything there is a supreme power. He'll punish. "Never mind, we shall be punished." You'll become dog. "Oh what is the wrong if I become a dog?" They say like that, "What is the wrong?" He thinks that "I'll get good facilities for sex. There will be no need of apartment. I'll save the rent. To become a dog and have sex life on the street, it is good facility." This is going on.
Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.
Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.
Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."
Prajāpati: And their answer...
Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."
Prajāpati: Their answer to such a challenge will be: "You please go across the street to the study of Hinduism."
Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."
Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...
Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?
Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?
Prajāpati: Their answer would be: "We cannot talk about God. We can simply talk about the Christian tradition of God, or the..."
Prabhupāda: Now, again you come to the Christian God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And whole city smashed.
Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to search beyond the microscopic level, microscope level. They think that the atoms have their own energy. They don't know the process of searching...
Prabhupāda: The energy is: Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). The asura's business is to avoid Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. And our business is to establish everywhere Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between them and ourself.
Rāmeśvara: There is one theory that even the atoms have intelligence because the way they combine together to form larger molecules...
Prabhupāda: That means that is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. They do not see Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand the whole philosophy because you have to preach and you have to confront so many atheist rascals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These scientists need gurus.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists need guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is not scientific. It is all rascaldom. What you are giving, that is not science, that is rascaldom. Why shall I accept it is scientific? Because you have no full knowledge. What you are giving, it is simply rascaldom. Jaya. (Bengali)
Indian: (Bengali)
Nalinī-kānta: So we say that one should live very simply, produce his own food, and chant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then avoid all problems.
Nalinī-kānta: So if we are given charge of the society, we should dismantle all this industry, all these cities...?
Prabhupāda: No. We're not going to. But we can manage how to do it. First of all give me. I'll say how to manage. (laughter) We'll not create any problem. We do not wish to destroy anything.
Nalinī-kānta: Just like we have big printing press and incense factory.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Nalinī-kānta: But it is all managed nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, śūdras. When a śūdra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.
Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.
Rūpānuga: Become immortal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that "I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years." What is this mentality?
Devotee: Back to Godhead.
Ajāta-śatru: Yes, we can go back to Godhead. (Prabhupāda enters temple, kīrtana very loud) (end)
Pañcadraviḍa: So the living entity can enjoy his desires in that field according to his past activities.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not enjoyment. It is worker, just like this field is for working, and the farmer is working. That does not mean he's enjoying. He's working. This field is given for working. But this working does not mean that he's enjoying. And because this working, working on the field is not enjoyment, therefore nobody's coming. They are going to the factory. They are going to the factory. Had it been enjoyment, then they would have come. But no, they go to the factory. And they are prepared to purchase from the farmer at any cost to avoid this working. That is the difficulty at the present moment. If you are asked that "You work here," I don't think you'll agree. It is not enjoyment. Will you take a plow and do...? No. Why? If it is enjoyment, why not?
Pañcadraviḍa: The work is too hard.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that's it. That's it.
Pañcadraviḍa: So what I meant... This body is a field.
Prabhupāda: Yes, body is field is... The example is given. Just like this field, to work with this body is not enjoyment. Everyone is suffering with body, so many people, always suffering threefold miseries. That is not enjoyment. It is enjoyment for the fools, rascals, who are covered by the illusory energy.
Brahmānanda: So as a result of the vaccine they created a worse type of influenza, and they have nothing to counteract that worse type. So now they have to invent another type.
Prabhupāda: These rascals give trouble to the people, especially in India. They are not after the vaccine. They will catch people and force them. Just see. This is going on. (indistinct) ...others are avoiding, they are going, going this way, that way. Sometimes they fall, they do not know, and capture (indistinct) These rascals are creating havoc. Only to kick them on their face with shoes. That's all. The so-called scientists and biologists and... They do not know anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were saying that all the scientists are fools and rascals but they may challenge, "How has your knowledge benefited you?"
Prabhupāda: Your knowledge has not benefited you. Our taking your so-called science has benefited you because you are using it for Kṛṣṇa. You have worked so hard, so result is going to Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are making the best... (indistinct) ...there is chair but we don't care for the chair. We can sit down. But if it is available we don't reject it. Therefore (indistinct) ...you have made a chair and (indistinct) ...Not that I require your chair, without your chair I will, shall die. That is not my policy. You rascal, you have done something, I'm using it for your benefit. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.
Amogha: The divisions of work are naturally there. You can't avoid them.
Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs. This is mantra. How you can avoid it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My creation. How you can avoid it?" You cannot avoid anything which is created by Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. It is created by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say, "No, no. I don't want sunshine." That is foolishness. If you want to avoid, then you'll suffer. The sunshine is there, and if you go into the dark place, and cover yourself, then the sunshine is outside, that's all. The sun may not suffer—you'll suffer. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "This caste system is created by Me." If you don't accept it, then you'll suffer. Kṛṣṇa will not suffer. (leaves car) ...introducing the caste system, we are introducing a system which, you follow, you'll be happy. Not caste system. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is tapasya, that voluntarily we accept some inconvenience. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The tapasa means first brahmacarya, how to avoid sex desire. That is the first tapasa. Tapasā brahmacaryena samena vā, yamena niyamena vā, damena tyāgena satya-śaucābhyām (SB 6.1.13). The steps are there. So tapasā, tapasā... Tapasya means first brahmacarya, how to restrain this sex desire. That is first step. Where is their tapasya? "It is very difficult to do this tapasya. Oh." Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra regularly, you'll be cured. Otherwise, regular tapasya is almost impossible nowadays.
Paramahaṁsa: Is there a stage after a person becomes completely purified...?
Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?
Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.
Prabhupāda: The real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. So we are dealing with that problem. Now... Does anybody like to die?
Sister: No, I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the death is there.
Sister: Yeah, death is there. It's inevitable.
Mother: It's inevitable, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Inevitable, but you can avoid it. That we are giving. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you can avoid this problem: birth, death, old age, and disease. That is our propaganda.
Mother: But you'll always have disease and you'll always have old age.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but just like you are diseased, so all the problems are there. But when you become cured of the disease, then there is no more problem. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means training people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And as soon as he is educated to go back to home, back to Godhead, then all problems solved.
Mother: Then why there is so much human suffering?
Prabhupāda: Because he has accepted this material body.
Mother: And this is why there's so much human suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of accepting a material body. Therefore every one of us should try how to avoid this process of accepting a material body. That should be our only endeavor, not to make a temporary solution. That is not very good solution.
Mother: But the world will never all become Kṛṣṇa conscious, will they? There will always be different scriptures.
Prabhupāda: What different there may be?
Gaṇeśa: Different scriptures.
Śrutakīrti: She said everyone won't all become Kṛṣṇa conscious in the world.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So if you are serious to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you hear Kṛṣṇa, what does He say. Then you do that.
Madhudviṣa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is wanted. Live here very nicely and go back to home, back to Godhead. Why should you die like cats and dogs? Die like a human being and be freed from all these material anxieties. But their determination is that they must live in this hellish condition. They do not believe in the next life. If they believe in the next life, then it becomes horrible. They want to avoid this question. "No, no there is no life. Enjoy to the best capacity now." Enjoy. We do not say that don't enjoy, but enjoy so that you may not be implicated. There is no harm having big house, comfortable life, but keep Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Hm? Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in these big, big skyscraper buildings, what is their loss?
Madhudviṣa: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no loss, still they will not do it. We don't say that don't live in the... We are living in nice building; you also live in nice building. But see, do, see what we are doing there. Everyone can do it. Everyone can... That is Vedic culture, and everywhere Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa-śilā is worshiped. At least the higher castes, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not the śūdras. Don't eat meat, don't have intoxication, no illicit sex, have Kṛṣṇa's picture, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, make nice preparation, where is the difficulty? Take this civilization.
Paramahaṁsa: Partial devastation.
Prabhupāda: No, when volcano is in smoke, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. (break)
Devotee: Shall we sell our land, then?
Prabhupāda: What will come? Trust no future, that's all. We must be always ready for destruction. Material world is like that. Nitya anityatam. Canakya Paṇḍita has says, tyaja durjana-saṁsargam: "Avoid bad men's company." Bhaja sādhu-samāgamam: "Always try to associate with learned, what is, ādhu, with devotees. Avoid this worldly men's association and try to associate with devotees." Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam bhaja sādhu-samāgamam, and then smara nityam anityatam. "And always think that everything here in this material world is for few days." That's all. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam bhaja sādhu-samāgamam. (break) Anityatam. (break) ...be the motto of life. (break) ...associate with the materialistic person, try to associate with devotee, and always think that this world is for few days. That's all.
Ambarīṣa: This world is what?
Prabhupāda: For few days. Nityam anityatam. (break) ...other. Kuru puṇyam aho-ratram: "And act piously, day and night." This should be the motto.
Ambarīṣa: Oh, the whole building?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: Fifty million dollars.
Ambarīṣa: Fifty million.
Śrutakīrti: That is that steel boat we were looking at to get.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śrutakīrti: The white boat there...
Prabhupāda: White boat?
Śrutakīrti: Yes, the large white boat just there, that is the one we were after. That is the steet boat.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This one?
Śrutakīrti: Yes, the large one, the biggest one there.
Harikeśa: It's not so big. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...can avoid.
Śrutakīrti: Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: You also keep account?
Devotee: No, they put that ad in every day.
Siddha-svarūpa: They put in a newspaper.
Ambarīṣa: You can't avoid seeing it.
Siddha-svarūpa: No, they are always telling you.
Devotee: In front of their shop it's always there.
Siddha-svarūpa: "We have killed this many." They are also trying to connect themselves with patriotism and religion. They have, at all of their restaurants, they have the American flag flying along with the McDonald's flag. They have their own flag, McDonald's. So they fly alongside the American flag. (break)
Ambarīṣa: I heard once that human beings in the modes of goodness were coming from the cow family or from the cows mostly? If there are so many cows being killed, why aren't there more people in the modes of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Now, after the... There are three sources: cow, monkey, and lion. This is the last animal life.
Siddha-svarūpa: Okay, now park here.
Prabhupāda: Why not go a little...
Siddha-svarūpa: There's a beach park right up there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, beach park. Oh, you have to stop.
Bali-mardana: Yes, and to put stool on the sidewalk. Wherever there is dogs, there is stool all over the sidewalk.
Prabhupāda: That is the modern civilization. They are avoiding cow dung and associating dog stool. (laughs) This is modern... Cow dung is so beneficial. That they are avoiding. And they are associating dog stool. The dog mentality. The master and the servant, and the, er, dog, both of them watching. The master writes by signboard. What is that? "Keep away. Private property." And the animal also making, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Both of them are dogs. He is making "Gow! Gow!" by signboard, and he is doing it as nature, but both of them are dogs. One is two-legged dog, another is four-legged dog.
Siddha-svarūpa: Man keeps dog as an extension of his doggish mentality, as an extension of himself.
Bali-mardana: The dog... Sometimes the dog and the person, they look the same.
Siddha-svarūpa: They look alike. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Siddha-svarūpa: It's often seen that an owner of a dog looks just like that particular dog. They look very much alike, and they have similar personalities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact because the subtle body is doggish and he is going to be a dog next life. Tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Because he is always thinking of his dog, always, therefore he is going to be a dog.
Bahulāśva: These big philosophers never think of that question.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no answer.
Bahulāśva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The difficult subject matter, they set aside.
Bahulāśva: They avoid.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: But this gerontology is not a major subject in any of the universities yet.
Prabhupāda: They know, "It is not possible by us." They know it.
Bahulāśva: I was speaking with Professor Stahl about this point in Berkeley. And he also had no answers for this question. He thought that there was no such thing as eternal life.
Prabhupāda: Well, then, therefore you are a rascal. Then why you are struggling to live? Why, when you are sick, why do you call doctor, physician? Why this tendency? Why you are making research in medical science, opening hospital? Die. Why you are not willing to die? Then what is the answer? He says, "There is no such thing as eternity," but why you are struggling for eternity? Then what is the answer? Hmm?
Bahulāśva: Well, when we tell them your philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he became silent. The one... We were having a debate, and the one chairman of the debate, he then he turned to Mr. Stahl. He said, "So what do you think of this answer, Mr. Philosopher?" And Mr. Stahl just sat there very quiet. He couldn't say anything.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is trying to live. That is Darwin's theory also, "struggle for existence." So why you are trying to exist if there is no such thing?
Bahulāśva: The main problem.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, "These are your real problems: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are intelligent, then you should keep always in your front these problems."
Bahulāśva: They think that we're avoiding the real problems.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bahulāśva: They think that we're avoiding the real problems because we're not doing business.
Prabhupāda: We are not doing business? We are doing the best business. You are working hard day and night, and without working, we are living comfortably. They cannot dream of. (break) ...is their envy, that "These people, without doing anything they are living so comfortably. And we are working so hard day and night." (break) Yes, this is envious. (break) He is searching some fish? (break)
Jayatīrtha: Clams.
Bahulāśva: (break ) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have scheduled some meetings with many professors there, from this Graduate Theological Union and other places. Dr. Judah will be there and some of his associates.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Judah, he wanted to see me earlier, no?
Bahulāśva: Yes, he'll be coming here probably on Tuesday or Wednesday. He's just coming from Boston. They had a big library convention there for the theological schools in the United States. So he had to go to speak at that, and then he'll be coming back.
Prabhupāda: Did he speak anything about Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Gerson: That's right.
Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is kāraṇam, that he is associating with different modes of material nature and he is getting a suitable body. So where is that science to understand this subtle work of nature? Where is that science? Where is that education in the universities? You are not free. You cannot say "that I shall live life like this." You can live, but take the risk of next life. Therefore they avoid this question: "There is no next life." That is very horrible. But that does not mean... Just like the, what is that animal? Closes the eyes?
Jayatīrtha: Ostrich.
John Mize: That the purpose of the human existence is to improve it's moral nature, to reunite ultimately with God, to be pleasing to God. So it's similar in that sense. He apparently disagrees on the origin...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is sattva-guṇa. Good character means sattva-guṇa, to become brāhmaṇa and then love God. This is Vedic civilization.
Jayatīrtha: Does he make any description of God? Any explanation?
John Mize: His thesis is that God is an intelligent moral force. But he avoided anthropomorphism by not projecting such properties as anger onto God. But he recognized personality in God. God is a moral intelligence and powerful.
Prabhupāda: So to become angry, that is also qualification of God, to become angry.
John Mize: Is...?
Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.
John Mize: I don't understand what you last said. To be angry is...
Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.
Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.
Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization. And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out. The bird is catching a small fish, "Fut!" He knows where to find out his eatable. And that you cannot do. You also eat fish, but you jump over and take a fish. You cannot do that. But he can do that. He is more expert than you. (guests chuckle) Yes. In the troubled water, he is flying. He can see a small fish and immediately pick it up. Can you do that? So he is more advanced in civilization. (laughter) He knows his techniques. He is greater scientist than you. You cannot do this. A vulture goes seven miles up, and he can see where is a dead body. So even amongst the animals there are many expert scientists than our so-called scientists. But what that science will help? That science may help how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. That's all. And that is being done by the animals. It doesn't require any advanced scientific knowledge. Real scientific knowledge is who is God, to know. That is meant for human being, Not this where to find out a fish very expertly. That is being done by a bird. Where is the use of scientists and philosophers? Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the indication is there that "Now you have got this human form of life. Find out where is God." That is real science. That we have set aside. That we do not touch. That we have left to the sentimentalist. Why don't the scientists do not take up this work very seriously, "If there is God, where He is? Who is God?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So you are all learned scholars. You join this movement and help us. To keep people in darkness, that is not advancement of education. And education does not mean how to find out a fish expertly. That is being done by the birds. Education means to solve the problem of life. And what is the real problem? Birth, death, old age, and disease. That is real problem. So where is the remedy for this birth, death, old age, and disease? That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying, our struggle for existence means we are trying to mitigate how to avoid distress. We want happiness. And Kṛṣṇa presents that "Here is your distress, that you have to die. What you have done for this? Here is your real distress. You might have taken your birth in rich American nationality or might have very good skyscraper building and very, very, nice motor cars. But you will be kicked out at any moment, sir. What you have done for this, that you will be insured for all this enjoyment. Where is that insurance? You are so busy in these affairs, but where is your insurance that you will be allowed to enjoy this?" This is intelligence. You will be kicked out at any moment. Then all your labor is spoiled. And therefore Kṛṣṇa presents this problem first, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. We are looking after happiness, but we must find out where is permanent happiness. That is intelligence, not that I create a circumstance where I am happy for some years and then kicked out. Why don't you touch this problem first? Then you are scientist, then you are philosopher.
Jayatīrtha: Nowadays it's 99% bad. So the wars are simply between two bad elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: So it's a different thing now.
Prabhupāda: So you cannot stop war between bad elements. Make them good. Then you can avoid. You cannot stop fighting between the dogs. That is not possible. If you try to make the dogs stop fighting, it is not possible. Is it possible? Then it is useless attempt. You keep the human being as dogs, and you want stop fighting. That is not possible, impractical.
Peter: Must a person believe in Kṛṣṇa in order to chant?
Prabhupāda: You must believe somebody. You believe in God or not?
Peter: Do I believe in God?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Still they do not accept God. (break) ...ājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Everything is. (break) ...cribing the whole universal situation, Śukadeva Gosvāmī concluded, "as God has made it." He never mentioned any other demigod. "As God has made it." Yathā bhagavān kriyetām (break) ...not to accept the authority of Kṛṣṇa, misfortune. Narādhama. (break) (walking:) ...kara bhai, ara saba mithyā, palaya patha nara yo mache piche(?): "Everyone should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Remember, behind you there is the Yamarāja, death." (break) ...to avoid this horrible conception that there is death, and they avoid this, that "There is death, but there is no life again." That's all. (break) ...this dog race and what is the rat race? There is a word, rat race?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What is it?
Jayatīrtha: That describes the modern culture. Everyone runs around like rats in a maze, looking for food. It's a psychological test. They put rats in a maze and at one end of the maze they put some food. So the rats run all through the maze trying to find the food. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...this side, Hawaii?
Devotee: Yes, yes. (break)
Devotee: ...I think they're everywhere. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...coming from Hawaii, this boy?
Devotee: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...he has come, no?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Just world religions with representatives from different religions. Each would speak on their understanding. They asked him what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Gauḍīya Vaisnavism.
Prabhupāda: And who asked for the Absolute Truth, that...?
Satsvarūpa: Uttamaśloka dāsa.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, they avoided.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, they asked him... Swami Bon said, "Don't speak."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: He asked Uttamaśloka, "Don't speak. You shouldn't..."
Prabhupāda: What right he has got to say like that? It was a meeting. He did not say, "What right you have got to say me?" The president, he was president or what?
Satsvarūpa: He's a president.
Prabhupāda: No, no, in the meeting...
Satsvarūpa: No, Swami Bon was just a guest also.
Prabhupāda: So why he can, why he said like, "Don't speak"?
Yadubara: They tried to do that to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kurukṣetra. They did not want you to speak.
Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra? No.
Yadubara: They allowed you?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Mayor: No, I really don't think I do, and I think I'd like to learn more about your movement too. But I have enjoyed having to talk and listen to you and I appreciate it.
Prabhupāda: No, put it here. He'll take. Take this prasāda. They are all fruits, innocent. In your country you have got so many nice fruits.
Mayor: Yes, we do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.
Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)
Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.
Mayor: All right, thank you.
Prabhupāda: So, Jagadīśa, you give whatever... You take his... Give him some fork.
Mayor: I had some cake over at the temple on Emerson Street, so I'm being well-fed this morning. (break)
Viṣṇujana: ...park areas where a lot of young people go for their summertime. And we'll be putting on our program right there in the park. We'll be chanting with our simple instruments. We'll want to serve some simple vegetarian, like a drink and some fruit, and discuss this philosophy amongst young people. We find that very successful all over the colleges in the country. And we think that around the Great Lakes here it will be very successful.
Prabhupāda: Now, we want this house just to keep them for sometimes with our association. That is temporary, for one hour or two hours, but I wish they should come and live with us for some time. Then it will be effective, more effective. That is... Therefore I wanted a house like this.
Sudāmā: When you compare them to the animals, then they become insulted.
Prabhupāda: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?
Satsvarūpa: Many people today are willing to accept that. They say, "Yes, we're animals. We should enjoy our animal nature."
Prabhupāda: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Satsvarūpa: The human body means you have responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?
rabhupāda: ...still avoid that position. (laughter) Where is the independence? Where is the independence of woman that she has to carry the weight of the pregnancy and the man is free? What is the answer to this question? Hmm? Answer Viśakha.
Viśakha: A woman is trapped by her body. She has no choice. By her body she must.
Prabhupāda: So she is already dependent on nature's law that man is free from becoming pregnant and the woman has to take the burden. Then where is the independence, equal right? Equal right means sometimes man may become pregnant, sometimes woman may become pregnant, but why only woman should become pregnant and the man goes away and she has to take care of the children, beg from government or this and that? Is that independence? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: For them, the independence has become contraception. "I don't have to have the child," they say.
Prabhupāda: That means you commit another sinful activity. Then you become dependent on nature. You'll be punished. The punishment goes to you. In this way... And the whole thing becomes cumbrous. So where is the benefit of equal right, independence? Phalena paricīyate. We have to see the result of every action—whether the result is beneficial. If the result is not beneficial—the action is not beneficial. There is cases of rape cases. The victims are women. Why the victim is not man? Why? In every rape case the sufferer, or the victim, is woman. And why not the man?
Jagadīśa: Male means predominator, female means predominated.
Jagadīśa: Chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Both of them suffer. But irresponsible father avoids, then the both suffering comes on the woman. She suffers the pain, birth pain, and suffers to raise the children. And the man goes away. How they are going to solve this problem? What is their answer? They become dependent on the man during sex life and purchases the pain, birth pain, and accuses the husband. And then, when the child is born she has to take care. The father may go away. The mother cannot give up the care of the children. Out of affection, she is carrying two child. So these are the aftereffects. So can the woman avoid sex, which is entailed with so much sufferings? She submits. Where is the independent woman? Therefore, if one is spiritually advanced, then she becomes.
Brahmānanda: Then he becomes.
Prabhupāda: She can become equal with man. Spiritually advanced man and woman, they are equal. So long one is materially encaged, this is not possible.
Prabhupāda: That is free will, but under the point of revolver. So māyā is very strong. māyā is very strong. So when you are under the māyā's clutches, she dictates and you have to do. This is called māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14), very, very strong. So mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taran... If one is staunchly Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can avoid. Otherwise not possible.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But if someone purposefully sins, also that is māyā.
Prabhupāda: That may not be māyā. That is my discretion. But that is also māyā in another way, indirect way. So one must be strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he is not a victim of māyā.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, on the news it's talking about the hook-up of the Soviets and Americans, in their (?) capsules. And a large hook-up of these space ships in outer space for planning their moon project. And we were wondering what your feelings are and your views are on all of this.
Prabhupāda: What is he wondering? You are making plans to go to back to home, back to Godhead, and if they go to the moon planet, so your plan is bigger or his plan is bigger? (laughter) Whose plan is bigger?
Devotee: Our plan is much bigger.
Prabhupāda: Scientific... It is the most crude thing. Everyone knows. Even the animal, even the ant, they have got consciousness.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, it embarrassed them that they know everyone has consciousness but there was no way they could measure it or, according to gross science, get some factual information about it. So it embarrassed them so much, they tried to avoid the subject, hush it up, not speak about it.
Prabhupāda: That is their disease. When they cannot make any solution, they avoid it. (break) ...touch the real point, that why there is death. Nobody will touch because they cannot make any solution. Why do they not have a department?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Nowadays they're actually realizing their error and they're studying death more, trying to prepare people for death more. But the only thing they can tell them is, "Accept it." The only thing they can do is say, "You are going to die. So just accept it with a cheerful attitude."
Prabhupāda: But I do not wish to die. Why shall I be cheerful? You rascal, you say, "Become cheerful." (laughter) "Cheerfully, you become hanged." (laughter) The lawyer will say, "Never mind. You have lost the case. Now you cheerfully be hanged." (laughter)
Bahulāśva: They do that also. They have a fad now. It's called streakers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore their punishment is to become tree, to cat, dog, like that. That they cannot explain, why there is cat life, dog life, human life, rich(?) life. That they cannot do. All big questions, they have avoided. And they remain perpetually a rascal. That is their education. Mūḍha, Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha, narādhama: "Lowest of the mankind." Human life was meant for real education. They remain the same rascal and dies very happily. Mūḍhas. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: In the pictures of the ācāryas sometimes yourself and Bhaktisiddhānta has their left hand touching the ground. Is there any meaning to that?
Prabhupāda: Touching?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. There's a picture, and your hand is like this.
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Bahulāśva: Many students are here during the day. They come and set up the Deities and then do kīrtana and give out prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Do that. Continue that. They will be infected.
Bahulāśva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Infect them.
Paramahaṁsa: Coincidentally, the original purpose of the hydrogen bomb was to prevent death, to end the Second World War as soon as possible.
Prabhupāda: How they can prevent? That he does not know, how to prevent. He can accelerate. That's all. (break) ...puts before us, "Here is your problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Solve it." Where is that scientist? They avoid the real problem and take some childish problem. (break) ...not any hidden problem. It is the open problem. Kṛṣṇa puts it: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, The real seer will see to these problems. There is no answer or solution of these problems. Where is the solution of these problems? Where is the biochemist or the psychologist or the atom bombist?
Paramahaṁsa: The theory nowadays is that by the proliferation of atomic weapons, that Russia has so many weapons, China has so many weapons, the United States has so much...
Prabhupāda: Everyone now. India has also.
Paramahaṁsa: They're all afraid of using them.
Prabhupāda: They must use it. That is nature's arrangement.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, right. History.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's arrangement (chuckles) that you all die. That is nature's arrangement.
aramahaṁsa: Under the threat of nuclear warfare wouldn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness be more easy to spread?
Prabhupāda: No, threat is already there. But they are so fool that they are not afraid of the threat. Threat is already there. Everyone will die. That is the problem. So who is caring for this? They are avoiding this. They cannot take any anti measures.
Yadubara: So it will take a war to bring them to their senses a bit?
Prabhupāda: No, war is going on. But they are so senseless that they will not come to this, so rascal. Therefore they are described as mūḍha, all rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very hard to preach to these fools, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These people are so stupid, it is very difficult to preach to them.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will be...
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are hearing from you and your books that we will die, and we must learn to face these problems as you mentioned, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), but still, even as your disciples, we are not so convinced.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Because we've been brought up in a culture where we've been taught that we will never die. Particularly in America we never even see death here.
Prabhupāda: You think you will not die?
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: I know I will, but how can we realize that, come to the platform of realizing?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is dying, your father is dying, your mother is dying, your friend is dying, and still if you cannot understand, then how it will be possible to make you understand? Every day you see so many people are dying. Ahāny ahāni lokāni gacchanti yamālayam iha. Every moment, every day, we see so many animals or men are dying. Śeṣaḥ sthitam icchanti kim āścaryam... But those who are living he is thinking, "I will not die." Death is inevitable but still, he is thinking, "I will not die." Therefore that is the problem. Everyone is dying, and everyone is trying not to die. This is the problem. Nobody wants to die, but everyone is dying. That problem this rascal scientist cannot solve. Therefore they are like dogs, and to catch their tail is like that. Yes. And that is the real problem. Everyone is dying, and everyone is trying not to die.
Brahmānanda: They were selling one gulabjamin for seventy-five cents.
Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active. (indistinct) Tamo-guṇa means sleeping and laziness. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa. Every saintly man can avoid these two things—laziness and sleeping. Of course, as much you require, sleeping allowed, not more than... And keep everyone active, man or woman-all. Then it will be ideal society.
Prabhupāda: So Upendra has not come?
Brahmānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Brahmānanda: He said he had to take a laxative last night.
Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick. (break)
Trivikrama: ...sixteen rounds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let him go to hell. What can be done? (break) So his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is drinking." "Oh, he will go to hell." "My mother is also drinking." "Oh, she will go." Then brother, sister... "Then where is hell? We are going all there. If we can live together, where is hell? Let us go to hell. Doesn't matter." So your argument is that. "Because everyone is being cheated, then where is fault? I have been cheated. That's all. It is not hell. It is heaven." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: The other worker, he is seeing that "This rascal has engaged us in hard work and he is enjoying. So drive him out. Kill him." This is communism. Everyone wants that, comfort, peacefully living. Therefore this civilization, to work hard, is condemned. If hard work is desirable why the capitalists avoiding? Hm? What is answer?
Upendra: They say they worked hard to get there.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Upendra: They worked hard to get there.
Prabhupāda: "To get there" means?
Upendra: To get to their position they worked hard.
Prabhupāda: What is their position?
Upendra: Of relaxation.
Prabhupāda: Relaxing. I am relaxing. Why you are inducing me? I am relaxing. Then why you are inducing me to work hard? I am already relaxing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take little prasāda. That's all. Why you are inducing me to work hard?
Brahmānanda: They say you have to earn your relaxation.
Prabhupāda: But earn or not earn, I am enjoying relaxation.
Prabhupāda: Cutting the tail of the jackal. (Bengali) "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. (pause) That is practical. The world is working so hard but where is the peace and happiness?
Brahmānanda: It's coming.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) When it will come? That is unknown.
Brahmānanda: Maybe at the end of this century.
Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy. You'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.
Indian man (1): It is evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.
Prabhupāda: That must be because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. Karmana daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1). There is superior power to supervise how you are working.
Indian man (2): Karmana baddhyate jantur vidyaya...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmana baddhyate. They do not know. Poor fund of knowledge. Rascals. Mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa comes to inform these rascals, "You are all duṣkṛtina, mūḍha." That is Kṛṣṇa's declaration. Na maṁ duṣkṛtino mū... "Therefore surrender unto Me." This is the whole purpose.
Cyavana: They have so many doubts.
Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt, that "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left. Rāyarāma left: "Oh, Swamiji is denying the preliminary necessities of life." This is the preliminary necessities of life: illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. They cannot think that a man can live without these things. Therefore people are wonderful, that "How he is turning these Europeans, Americans to this standard?" That is their wonder. Nobody can think of, that these things can be given up and one can avoid it. It is dream. Your government, American government, is also surprised that "We have spent so much money for stopping this LSD, and this man by saying his disciples, they are giving up." Judah has also mentioned that. That is their surprise—"How these things can be given up? It is impossible."
uṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is it better if someone argues against our philosophy or if someone doesn't argue at all and simply doesn't accept it either?
Prabhupāda: No, if he argues... If you can understand that by argument, if you come to conclusion, they will accept, then talk with them. If they remain dog, what is the use of talking with a dog? Dog will never accept any argument. It will remain dog. So better avoid that.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's very difficult to give good instruction to a dog. It simply barks.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I say, they should be neglected.
Harikeśa: Just give them prasādam and kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: That's all, yes. No argument. "Please come and take prasādam." That much mercy should be shown to them.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are displaying their cannon. They are displaying weapons.
Prabhupāda: That is their only asset. And when they are kicked out by the cannon of nature, they tolerate. That's all. They are showing their cannon, but ask them, "Can you defend yourself from the cannon of nature when he kicks out, 'Get out'?" You may be very big commander and captain or leader, but when death comes can you avoid it? Then what is your leadership? What will your cannon do? You kill nature by your cannon and live. That you cannot do. Then where is the value of your cannon? Eh? Why you are so much proud of showing your cannon? What you can do with this cannon?
Devotee (2): They know how to destroy everything, but they can't create anything nice.
Prabhupāda: No question of creating. They have destroyed themselves. Save yourself from destruction. Then you talk of destruction. You destroy. That's all right. But you will be destroyed by some other greater power. What you are going to do that? What you have done for that purpose? You destroy. That is going on, nature's way. I am killing somebody, somebody is killing me. That is nature's way. So what is your special credit? There is no credit. There is no credit. You save yourself not to be destroyed by others. "I can destroy others but nobody can destroy me"—that Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. But that is not possible. Ultimately he was destroyed. That's all.
Reporter: Your Grace, a great many of South Africa's church leaders from some of the big churches are fearful that South Africa is going to find itself in a situation, or find... What message would you give this country in terms of avoiding any...
Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea. This is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, the first teaching is,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
This is the first instruction. Just like in the body of a child the spirit soul is there. Therefore the child is becoming a boy, and the boy is becoming a young man. Young man is becoming old man. Then what is the next? Then the old man must have next body. This is very simple logic. Now... But I am the same. I was also a baby. I was a boy. I remember. But the body is no longer existing. I am existing. I know that I had such and such body. So therefore the conclusion is that after annihilation of this body, I will exist in another body.
Prabhupāda: There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.
Dr. Patel: You must tell any other good messages, how actually a marriage is, can be for production of good progeny...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Putrārthe kriyate bharyā putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This, the first, piṇḍa-dāna for maintaining family. But nowadays nobody wants offspring. They want to kill to avoid botheration.
Dr. Patel: First they prevent, and if by accident it happens, then they kill it. And the medical profession help them.
Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: I am against it, no doubt. Once upon a time I used to be the doctor of all these so-called cinema actors and actresses, and you know their profession. And they are always falling prey of these sort of things, and they would come to me for relief, and I would refuse. So today I have none of them as my patient.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot relieve them.
Dr. Patel: No, I have taken a vow not to do wrong things. That is why I am here in your company. Otherwise I would be somewhere in... That is very common in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Not only Bombay, all over the world. Now it is imported in India also, to get relief of pregnancy.
Brahmānanda: Sevonmukhe...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jihvādau, yes. Chant means you must vibrate your tongue. That is chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is never said, "You chant within the mind." Where it is said? These are their manufacture to avoid. That's all.
Yaśomatīnandana: Then, when we get into deep discussion, then they say, "Whatever I am working is for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa." So ultimately they admit that actually it is not the person Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. In bhakti...
Yaśomatīnandana: But they are thinking themselves Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is not bhakti. Everything is going on for Kṛṣṇa. That is fact. But that is not bhakti. Bhakti is different thing. Bhakti is anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Never says, "Whatever you do, it is everything is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is all right." Never said. anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam. What Kṛṣṇa accepts, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa accepts... Everyone is thinking... That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So "Everything is Kṛṣṇa," that is all right, but when you think particularly of Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa...
Indian man (4): Now it may say everybody had.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Things should be thought scientifically.
Prabhupāda: What is the scientifically if you cannot say how many movements are there?
Dr. Patel: All the movements that the heavenly stars and other things are going on in a particular way.
Prabhupāda: No, you do not know what are the movements. You therefore say there are several movements, but you do not know what are these movements. That is not scientific. To avoid the explanation, if the scientist says that there are several movements... But you explain what is that movement? According to our śāstra there is no individual movement. The whole system is moving, making center the polestar. That we can see at night. They have... Star and planet, they have no separate movement. They are fixed up. Just like this tree. There are so many leaves. The tree is moving, so the leaves and twigs, they are moving, not that the leaf is moving.
Dr. Patel: This is a question of relativity, sir.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that we can see, this...
Dr. Patel: Now, the earth moves round the sun and the moon moves round the earth...
Prabhupāda: No, no...
Dr. Patel: And the rate of movement is different on either side. And the axis or ground on which it moves also differs. So when all of them collide or sort of a thing, then eclipse comes. That is the modern understanding.
Prabhupāda: And the... When Brahmānanda was speaking that word yesterday, I refuted your argument?
Brahmānanda: You were asking, "Why is it Sunday, Monday..." So I explained that the sun is the center of the universe; therefore the sun comes first.
Dr. Patel: No, various suns are there. All the stars are the suns of various universes.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept that. No. Sun is one.
Harikeśa: In South India I think a lot of the Rāmānuja followers are.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Akṣayānanda: If everything was void, then there would be no hope for living. So might as well die.
Prabhupāda: No. By combination, permutation, you create, and if you don't want it, then avoid this combination. (break) Even in four o'clock time, visiting, if he comes at four o'clock, you let him come in. (break) ...Gurukula we require teachers for teaching the small children. So our, these girls, they cannot take this charge of teaching?
Akṣayānanda: Yes, one is already teaching now. One is already teaching children now, one girl.
Prabhupāda: Who is he?
Akṣayānanda: Her name is Ruth. She's English. Every afternoon she teaches the children.
Prabhupāda: Indian?
Akṣayānanda: No, English.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's also one in Bombay. She used to be a public school teacher in England. After the school is open she can come over here. And there's one in Māyāpur, but she's teaching in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, other girls, they can take up this.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...our guest. Because somebody is guest, paying guest, therefore we shall admit anyone in any kind of dress?
Akṣayānanda: No.
Akṣayānanda: Sometimes I think our big building is too much Westernized. Disturbs the atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Akṣayānanda: Like you wrote in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that when Caitanya Mahāprabhu had many disciples behind him, He was criticized that He should not take them to Vṛndāvana. It might disturb the nice atmosphere. We have to be careful that we don't disturb with our big buildings and things. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...transform into a nice park this space. (break)
Akṣayānanda: Did Giridhārīlal see you last night, from the Mathurā Janmasthān? (break) ...influence Dalmia, but I don't know. We haven't seen any results yet regarding the gośālā. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sandy. We want to avoid this sandy.
Harikesa: We should go back up, then. (break)
Devotee: The people here say that this is the Raman Reti. This is the place, the most sacred spot where Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma would come.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...panot. (loud squawking of birds)
Harikesa: (break)...and went back to civilized life. (Hindi) (end)
Indian man (3): But in that case, sir, material duties, they are forgotten.
Prabhupāda: No.
Indian man (3): Then how can you avoid that, because conflict takes place.
Prabhupāda: No, it will be, there will be no more material duty. When you wash the shoes of your son, that is love, that is not a shoe washer; you don't remain a shoe washer. You remain in love with your child. Hm? A mother takes care of the child, washes, when he passes stool, that does not mean she becomes maṭharāṇī (sweeper woman). Maṭharāṇī is material. But when the mother out of love washes the child, she is not maṭharāṇī, she is Rādhārāṇī. (everyone laughs) And if you conclude, "Ah, she is washing the stool of the son. She is maṭharānī," that is your mistake. She remains Rādhārāṇī. Just like Mother Yaśodā is binding Kṛṣṇa, that does not mean that His supremacy is lost. The Mother Yaśodā is binding; He still remains the supreme. Therefore Mother Yaśodā became exhausted to try to bind Him. (laughs) And when Kṛṣṇa saw that "My mother is perspiring now, she is exhausted," "All right, let Me agree to be bound up by her." (pause) That's not a fact, otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who is engaged in My devotional service, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26)." So this is a mistake to say that devotional service is saguṇa. (indistinct) Huh? These are one gentleman came to talk with me?
Saurabha: About the apartment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)
| Page Title: | Avoid (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 04 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=128, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 128 |