Atom (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"atom" |"atoms"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: There are many demigods. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Everything is ananta. Just like here you cannot count how many. Here, this much space, if I ask you, "Count how many grasses are there," you cannot do it. Everywhere. You count in this field how many plants are there. You cannot do it. So, similarly other planet, other, other...There are unlimited fields. You cannot count. Why you try to count it, "How many universes? How many devotees?" That is foolishness. It is not possible. Wherever you start, everything is unlimited. Can you count how many atoms are there, atomic? That is your limitation. Therefore I say "frog philosophy." The limited wants to study the unlimited. That is frog philosophy. The frog is thinking, "Eh? Three feet. All right, four feet. All right, five feet." He cannot think unlimited because he is frog. So don't imitate the frog. Take it as it is stated in the śāstra. Then it is all right. So what we are getting from this banana garden?

Jayapatāka: Banana.

Prabhupāda: Getting unlimited? (laughter) What do you do with the bananas?

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikesa: The soldiers, they start the war. One stands on one side, the other stands on the other side, and there's one shot, one shot, ten shots, ten shots, then mortars, then tanks, then atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: No, why this is? If you have improved scientifically, let two, three scientists keep flying and the handy atom bomb. As soon as war starts, "plum," finished.

Harikesa: They have that also.

Prabhupāda: Then.... Why also? That should be the only. It is waste of time. What kind of scientists they are? If you have actually improved in science for killing others by atom bomb, so keep one atom bomb very carefully. Fly in the sky. And as soon as the war-world, "plum." Finished.

Harikesa: Well, then the other will just send some boats over, and all the men will get out while they're flying in the sky, and they'll just take over the country by manual soldiers.

Prabhupāda: No. As soon as atom bomb is..., everything is finished. There will be no opportunity. That is their thinking, "Who will drop the atom bomb first, he will be winner." That's all. In Russia they are adopting this means. They are releasing all the soldiers for other work. What is the use of keeping so many men idle without any work and maintain them, high salary, occupy big, big cantonment camps?

Harikesa: In America the army builds roads and bridges and things.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Atomic theory...

Acyutānanda: The atomic theory...

Dayānanda: What is the atomic theory?

Hṛdayānanda: Atomic... That everything is constituted of different atoms, and the ultimate truth is the atomic particle, and by different combinations of these particles, different material manifestations are produced, and there's no other cause except this endless combining of atomic particles.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the atom comes?

Hṛdayānanda: The atom is the eternal fact. It is inconceivable or it's unexplainable where it has come from.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of your explaining? Then you prove yourself you are a rascal. Inexplicable? Why you are trying to explain?

Guru-kṛpā: "We're not explaining. We're just accepting it's a fact."

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?

Guru-kṛpā: Does that mean that the atom is living entity?

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jīva bhuta, and that is living entity." So two kinds of atoms are coming from Kṛṣṇa. One is the spiritual atom, and the other is the material atom. So spiritual atoms, they are many, many times greater than the material atoms. And these material atoms is this universal, innumerable universes. Some of the spiritual atoms, when they want to enjoy independently, they are given the chance of enjoying this material atom. So in the material world it is combination of material and spiritual atoms. In the spiritual world, there is no material atom; everything spirit. That is three-fourth energy, and this is one fourth. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. (break)

Guru-kṛpā: If we say that Kṛṣṇa enters even within the atom, what is His business there?

Prabhupāda: Business is to guide the rascals like you. (laughter) Do you follow or not?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-kṛpā: Well, the material atoms...

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa loves you so much that even you accept this material atom, He goes to help you. Therefore He is within. Because sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). The living entity has a..., enjoying this material world. So he has got everything. He's a person. He has got his heart. So in the heart there is Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho. You read Bhagavad-gītā. Why? Why He has..., sarvasya cāhām hṛdi sanniviṣṭho? Hmm? Who will say? Why He has...? Your question is "Why?"

Hṛdayānanda: Mattaḥ smṛtir...

Prabhupāda: Ah! Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam. He's always trying: "You rascal, why you are suffering in this way? Come back home." This is the answer. He's so kind. That is His kindness. Sarvasya cāhām hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). We are talking of this philosophy, "How?" Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence. Otherwise, how it is possible? The same thing, as we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the dictation of Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is asking, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇa—so in the atom also He's doing the same business. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Now your question is answered or not? Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: Your question is answered?

Guru-kṛpā: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa is within the atom? That is answered or not? Wherever there is the living entity, Kṛṣṇa is there as friend. Su-parna, sayujā. So, from the śāstra it is understood, as many material atoms are there, so many spiritual atoms are there. Now you can imagine how many living entities are there. (sic:) Physists, they have not been able to find out the spiritual atom. Therefore they are puzzled, and their scientific research is incomplete. But the Bhagavad-gītā gives them information, "You rascal, this is inferior. These material atoms are inferior." Apareyam. They'll not take it. Apareyam itas tu: "Besides this, there is another energy, spiritual energy." "What is that spiritual energy? We do find." "You don't find? Why don't you see jīva-bhūta, these living entities?" But they are rascals. They will not see. They cannot understand what is this living entity, and Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Here is another atom. Apareyam itas tu me viddhi prakṛtiṁ parā." But the rascal will not take it. This is their rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa is giving them information, and still, they'll not take it. This is their dog obstinacy. Solution is there. They won't have to make very difficult research work. Here is information. But they'll not take it. The atoms which you are studying, that is all right. That is material, apara, inferior. But there is another atom. And if you say, "What is that atom? We do not find," "Don't you find this living entity?" And still, they are... They say the problems are solved. Just see how foolish they are. He's seeing the living entity, and Kṛṣṇa is pointing out: "Here is the superior atom," and still they say, "We do not know." What to do with them? Eh? They cannot find out by their own research, and the information is there by Kṛṣṇa, and still they'll not take it. So, what is to do with them?

Dayānanda: We can show that they are fools by presenting your literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Acyutānanda: I couldn't follow.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda said, "What should we do with these scientists? They won't accept Kṛṣṇa's knowledge that there is a soul..."

Prabhupāda: They are find..., researching atom. They could not come to the ultimate conclusion. And we say that this atom is energy, but it is inferior, and there is another energy. So they, if they say that "We do not find anything except this atom..."

Acyutānanda: They cannot explain how, in the body, by eating food, it turns into...

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jīva-bhūta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jīva-bhūta is there. He is seeing jīva bhuta, living... So Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The water is also an energy of sun. Because heat is there, within the heat there is water. What is, the physists say? What is the source of water? What do they say?

Acyutānanda: They say all the energy is created from the sun, all the planets...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. The sun is heat. So the water is there from the heat. (break) ...these scientists, making research work to find out what is after atom, proton, neutron. They're searching out.

Acyutānanda: They're never satisfied with their achievements.

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot be because they did not find out what is the ultimate source. They could not. Therefore they cannot be satisfied. If... A really scientist, how he can be satisfied? The goal is not yet achieved. How they can be satisfied? But we are satisfied because we know that the goal, the cause, ultimate cause, is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...instruction is not blind. It is fact. Just like my body is there, and on account of my energy, so I am getting flesh, I am getting nail.

Acyutānanda: Yes, they cannot explain how the body transforms into...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But both of them are coming from me. So this sensation, this consciousness, is perfect when it comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is developing, in every living entity is developing. The consciousness, the sensation, is there in the tree also, but he is not developed. When the same consciousness comes to the complete perfection, then he understands, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is perfection. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: "The real source is Vasudeva." Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Then he glorifies Vasudeva. But to know Vasudeva, you make research. That is one way, going on. But if you accept... Vasudeva says, "I am everything." Then accept immediately. The whole solution is there. Two, two ways: āroha-panthā, avaroha-panthā. You are trying to search out. Go on. It will take many, many births. But if you accept... The same Vasudeva is coming kindly ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). You accept it, then the knowledge is perfect. Suppose I am making this sound (makes sound with cane). Underneath they are puzzled: "Wherefrom this sound is coming?" They are making research. And if I say, "I am making this sound," then everything, knowledge, is there. The rascal will not surrender. Ask the man who is making sound. Then the knowledge is perfect. But he'll make research: "Wherefrom the sound came?" This is rascaldom. And one man is suggesting, "It is... The sound may be like this. The sound may be due to this." They are going on, researching. But if I say, "You rascal, why you are contemplating like that? I made this sound like this (make sound with cane). That's all," So that knowledge they'll not take. Mūḍhāḥ. Therefore they are... Nābhijānati. Mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So if we call them all mūḍhas, what is the wrong? They become angry. But if we call them, all these rascals, mūḍhas, what is the wrong? They say, "Oh, you are using very strong language. You are calling us all mūḍhas." But actually you are all mūḍhas because you do not know Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...ment of atom?

Dayānanda: One ten-thousandth the tip of a hair.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no, atom, this atom. Scientists, they are studying atom. So what is the measurement of atom?

Hṛdayānanda: So small that...

Prabhupāda: "So small that..." A child can say like that.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "So small that..." A child can say like that.

Acyutānanda: They are all different sizes.

Hṛdayānanda: That a million, they say that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are two sizes. One is anu, and one is paramanu. Six anus make one paramanu. That is statement. Six anus, and combine together it becomes a paramanu. That is atom. Therefore they are dividing atom. That is already there in the Vedic literature.

Acyutānanda: So the scientists' conception of atom is wrong?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: The scientists' conception of the atom is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Everything is wrong.

Acyutānanda: But by their, even though they are, they are wrong, by their conception they are making an atomic bomb. They can utilize...

Prabhupāda: So far you can, can...

Acyutānanda: To show results.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Arrangement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bouquet, yes. That does not mean you know how the flower has come out. That is called visarga. Sarga and visarga. Just like Brahmā has created this universe, but that does not mean he is the ultimate cause. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Brahmā got knowledge from Kṛṣṇa how to do it. What is this? (break) ...āṇu-cayānthara-stham. (break) ...tejaḥ, heat, the sun, supplying heat and water, vāri and mṛt, and the earth, combination. These things are coming out. Tejo-vāri-mṛt-vinimayam. How these flowers and trees are coming out? There is sunlight, there is water, and there is earth. And there is Kṛṣṇa also, the seed. Bījo 'ham sarva-bhutanam (Bg 7.10). So without Kṛṣṇa, nothing can be... (break) ...there is spirit atom?

Yaśodānandana: Yes. The arguments are very convincing, especially this last point about how the plants are growing with the help of sunlight, earth, water and... Scientists only have very shallow explanations of how life comes about.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...such verse. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). They do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they cannot understand.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fractional. It is smaller than the atom.

Dr. Kapoor: Final measure, the smallest fraction of anything, is soul.

Prabhupāda: One ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair.

Dr. Kapoor: Sir, even that has been measured by measuring instrument. I think it is.... You can describe it. But it is smaller part, infinite smallest part of an atom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it has been measured out. How the measurement is stated? It doesn't.... When the statement is there about the measurement of the soul, it was done. Otherwise how it is described in the śāstra? (break—walk)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The last few days, as guests have been coming to greet you, practically everyone who you've had a conversation with has brought up this question, What is good and what is bad, what is sinful activity?

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems that people have great difficulty discriminating today between good and bad.

Prabhupāda: So what is your answer?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've answered very nicely that whatever the authority says is good is good, and whatever the supreme authority says is bad is bad. Independently of what our own way of thinking is, we have to ultimately answer to the supreme authority. Even that lady, she gave the example that in society certain things are good, but they've bent the law, that things which were once bad, they are now accepted as good. So you explained that whatever the authority says is good is good. So the only difference I can see is that the goodness and the badness that Kṛṣṇa has defined are eternal.

Prabhupāda: Bad is this material world, and good is spiritual world. In the material world the discrimination of good and bad is mental concoction.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And how it is that prakṛti is, I mean, interaction, interaction of...

Prabhupāda: He says, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That is stated, and also said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So therefore that is final.

Dr. Patel: That is why I say, sir, that Albert Einstein used to see mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. He used to see mayādhyakṣeṇa, God everywhere. In every atom he used to see God.

Prabhupāda: That is right conclusion.

Dr. Patel: That is Albert Einstein, and that was the grandfather of the modern scientists. So I say the scientists are not as atheist as people think.

Abhirāma(?): When Albert Einstein suggested that there must be a supreme universe, then the other scientists began to say that he was crazy. They said, "He has become too old."

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Material, spiritual, you do not know anything. You don't talk. Better you become silent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, specifically said, "within the heart." The.... Even a germlike, what is called, atom, less than atom, there is heart. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, hṛd-deśe?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe. Every living entity.

Prabhupāda: Eh? And you say there is no.... You are our student. You are saying there is no heart. That means you do not carefully read.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's there, but is that the heart of the soul or the heart of the gross material body?

Prabhupāda: Then.... Heart there is, as you have got heart. What you are? The same constitution.

Hariśauri: In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad it describes how they're sitting side by side.

Prabhupāda: The same constitution of the body. Otherwise there is no question of heart.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rādhāvallabha Prabhu...

Prabhupāda: Can you challenge? "Do this first. What is your science? This is rascal science. You give up the major problem; you are making research how many atoms are working. What you will do by understanding atoms are going?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because it's very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Difficult? Then you are not scientist. You cannot touch the difficult problem. Childish thing, you are bluffing children, that's all. You have no power to tackle the difficulties. You cannot give life to the dead body.

Hari-śauri: (break) But if we don't make the research, then how will we ever solve these problems?

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break)...exhibit of Bharadvāja's in the temple of the Dāmodara and Mother Yaśodā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is nicely done?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (japa) (break) ...that he is not my father, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom is the source of everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom, the little particle, is eternal, original.

Prabhupāda: But you rascal, you are not coming from atom; you are coming from your father. That is my reply. You rascal, you are coming from your father, not from the atom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you say everything comes from the atom?

Rāmeśvara: Originally, they say...

Prabhupāda: Originally, go to hell. (laughs) First of all, take your case. "Originally." You do not know your case and you are going to originally. Hele data nakhe yuce.(?) You know this philosophy? Hele, there was some water snake, they have no poison. One snake charmer, he cannot catch even that. And he's trying to catch cobra. So first of all answer your case, then go to "originally."

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is no scientific. It is all rascal revolution. If you cannot answer these questions that you are created by your father, so why there should be no original creator? You cannot say that you have dropped from the sky.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, originally, everything came, man came from the monkey, monkey came from another animal, and everything came from an atom.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Come to practical, that you are created by your father. That you have to accept. So similarly, everything we see.... This car is created by someone. Everything we see, created. So how can you say there is no creator? Within our experience we see everything is created by someone.

Rāmeśvara: Creative energy is there.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the fact is...

Rāmeśvara: Impersonal.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were painting one painting for the last volume of Seventh Canto which shows that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart of all living entities. Now, the question came up whether Kṛṣṇa.... Since Kṛṣṇa is inside every atom, are there living entities in every atom? So I said that you had already answered that, that Kṛṣṇa is never alone, so there must be some living entity within the atom. So then the question was: Is this atom one of the bodies, just like human body, and then gradually that living entity gets a higher body, higher body, or does he always remain inside the atom?

Prabhupāda: Body does not develop. He changes body. Why don't you understand this?

Rāmeśvara: He changes body.

Prabhupāda: The motorcar does not develop. I change this motorcar to another.

Rāmeśvara: But that's the question.

Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's theory. Motorcar is not developing to big motorcar. That is nonsense. Motorcar is motorcar, but I can change from this car to that car.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's what he was wondering, whether the spirit soul leaves the atom to take another higher body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is always.... Transmigration means going on, simply changing.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Is that counted as one of the 8,400,000 species? Is the atom counted among the different species?

Prabhupāda: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. (break) ...prakṛti. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). What is this? He's standing on election? (break)

Rāmeśvara: It is written in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that when Lord Caitanya entered this universe, the entire universe was blessed, or benefited. So I'm wondering how Lord Caitanya's movement is going on on other planets other than this planet. Is there some organized saṅkīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How other planetary system is going on, you do not know, but we can guess it is going on like this. Anumāna. Pratyakṣa anumāna. One thing is direct perception, another by guessing. Pratyakṣa anumāna and śabda and śruti, aitihya. There are so many evidences. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu...

Rāmeśvara: Devotees once told me you said that the demigods like this movement very much so that they're standing in line to take their birth in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They like to come here on this planet. Just like you Kṛṣṇa conscious men, you are very much enthusiastic to go to India. India has no material attraction, but why our men wanted to go to India in spite of so many difficulties? Similarly, in the higher planet, heavenly planet, they are so much engrossed with material happiness that there is no facility. But here there is facility, in this earth, Bhūrloka. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). One who is too much attached to material convenience and everything, they have no opportunity for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (2): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Knowledge of the transcendental science of the Upaniṣads can free one from the entanglement of existence in the material world, and when thus liberated, one can be elevated to the spiritual kingdom of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by advancement in spiritual life. The beginning of spiritual enlightenment is realization of impersonal Brahman. Such realization is effected by gradual negation of material variegatedness. Impersonal Brahman realization is the partial, distant experience of the Absolute Truth that one achieves through the rational approach. It is compared to one's seeing a hill from a distance and taking it to be a smoky cloud. A hill is not a smoky cloud, but it appears to be one from a distance because of our imperfect vision. In imperfect or smoky realization of the Absolute Truth, spiritual variegatedness is conspicuous by its absence. This experience is therefore called advaita-vāda, or realization of the oneness of the Absolute. The impersonal glowing effulgence of Brahman consists only of the personal bodily rays of the Supreme Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Since Śrī Gaurasundara, or Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is identical with Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, the Brahman effulgence consists of the rays of His transcendental body. Similarly, the Supersoul, which is called the Paramātmā, is a plenary representation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The antaryāmi, the Supersoul in everyone's heart, is the controller of all living entities. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, wherein Lord Kṛṣṇa says sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am situated in everyone's heart." (BG 15.15) Bhagavad-gītā also states; bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), indicating that the Supreme Lord, acting in His expansion as the Supersoul, is the proprietor of everything. Similarly, the Brahma-saṁhitā states, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham: (Bs. 5.35) the Lord is present everywhere within the heart of every living entity and within each and every atom as well. Thus by this Supersoul feature the Lord is all-pervading. Furthermore, Lord Caitanya is also the master of all wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation because He is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself. He is described as pūrṇa, or complete. In the feature of Lord Caitanya, the Lord is an ideal renouncer, just as Śrī Rāma was an ideal king. He accepted the order of sannyāsa and exemplified exceedingly wonderful principles in His own life. No one can compare to Him in the order of sannyāsa. Although in Kali-yuga acceptance of the sannyāsa order is generally forbidden, Lord Caitanya accepted it because He is complete in renunciation. Others cannot imitate Him but can only follow in His footsteps as far as possible. Those who are unfit for this order of life are strictly forbidden by the injunctions of the śāstras to accept it. Lord Caitanya, however, is complete in renunciation as well as all other opulences. He is therefore the highest principle of the Absolute Truth. By an analytical study of the truth of Lord Caitanya, one will find that He is not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa; no one is greater than or even equal to Him. In Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) 'O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me.' Thus it is here confirmed that there is no truth higher than Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. The impersonal Brahman is the goal of those who cultivate the study of books of transcendental knowledge, and the Supersoul is the goal of those who perform the yoga practices. One who knows the Supreme Personality of Godhead surpasses realization of both Brahman and Paramātmā, because Bhagavān is the ultimate platform of absolute knowledge. The Personality of Godhead is the complete form of sac-cidananda (full life, knowledge and bliss). By realization of the sat portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited existence), one realizes the impersonal Brahman of the Lord. By realization of the cit portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited knowledge) one can realize the localized aspect of the Lord, Paramātmā. But neither of these partial realizations of the Complete Whole can help one realize ānanda, or complete bliss. Without such realization of ānanda, knowledge of the Absolute Truth is incomplete. This verse of Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is confirmed by a parallel statement in the Tattva-sandarbha by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. In the Eighth Part of Tattva-sandarbha it is said that the Absolute Truth is sometimes approached as impersonal Brahman, which, although spiritual, is only a partial representation of the Absolute Truth. Nārāyaṇa, the predominating Deity in Vaikuṇṭha, is to be known as an expansion of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the object of the transcendental love of all living entities."

Prabhupāda: So is it clear? (laughs) It is not so easy. Therefore it is postgraduate.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the..., from our experience, it is quite clear though that matter, as such... For example, let's take a crystal of diamond or, that will be shown later in the slide, that there are... Actually crystal of diamond is built in very simple structures. It's a hexagon, six carbon atoms, one after another, forms a very simple structure. But on the other hand, now when life is in association with matter, if we take a simple cell, the cell is composed of so many big, big molecules like proteins and DNA's and all these giant molecules. And they are wonderfully complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what this studying of a dead man, the molecules? When a man is dead, what is the condition of the molecules?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The molecules will deteriorate to simple molecules. It will degrade from big, big molecules to small molecules. In other words, it tends to be simple. When the living entity is out of the material body, the body itself becomes very simple.

Prabhupāda: No varieties.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So nice management, there must be nice direction.

Rūpānuga: No question of chance.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Kṛṣṇa is in every atom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and He... If somebody says how the atoms are working like that, the Kṛṣṇa's..., Brahmā says, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is within the atom also, the Supreme. Therefore it is acting so nice. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim (Bs. 5.35). Whole material world is going on under His direction, and He is acting within the atom also. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. As He is directing this cosmic arrangement, similarly He is directing from the atom, within the atom also. That is omnipotency.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to develop these concepts and prove...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sadāpūta: This slide shows..., these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this. Number one, these are very..., these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together. Now the scientists customarily make the assertion that laws like this are universal, but one thing we can notice is they have no proof of that. These laws which they say are universal are only studied in certain limited experimental situations with inanimate matter, and then they extrapolate and they say that they apply to everything. But actually the equations are so hard to solve even for reasonably simple molecules that they can't actually test out their assertion. So it's actually just a bluffing statement. So in this slide we wanted to point out how limited these laws are, how limited their concept of the laws of nature is. The next slide, according to the scientist's idea, there are two things going on—these laws and also chance. So this is a calculation showing what happens if you just have chance acting to form one of these proteins that Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about, and you can calculate... Actually here you calculate, suppose you threw a protein together at chance—and here we even allow a ten percent error, you're allowing to get it wrong among ten percent of the proteins—but still chance comes out to ten minus two-hundred-and forty-fourth-power. Now the scientists are always saying if you wait for a long enough time, even something very unlikely can happen; but here we have a calculation of how long you'd have to wait, according to mathematics and the probability theory, and even if you assume an unrealistically high rate of forming proteins at random, still you'd have to wait, according to this, ten to the hundred-and-sixty-seventh-power billion years. And that's a little bit too long. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is mathematics.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained. Vāsudeva is higher. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The difficulty is that they compare Vāsudeva to themselves. They think that "I am so unintelligent and tiny, I can't even create anything, but how can one person create all of these things, down to the tiniest atom?" Such an extraordinary...

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is God. He's not dog like you, barking only and doing nothing. (Prabhupāda knocks on table or flooring) What is this stone?

Hari-śauri: Marble. It's a type of Italian marble, I think. They call it terrazzo. Something like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's very soft underneath.

Hari-śauri: They often put this on the facings of buildings, big buildings.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Comes off on the fingers, very soft stone.

Hari-śauri: In Detroit temple, that stairway that goes up, this is the same marble, marble steps.

Prabhupāda: Move this.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, nonphysical, that doesn't mean it has no measurement. It has measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So measurement... Actually, Sadāputa calculated from how much the size is. Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair, how much it is. Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part, so it (will) come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms, by calculation like that.

Prabhupāda: Two atoms?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, angstroms. Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine. It is smaller even than the hydrogen atom. So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we were wondering whether that is reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Reasonable? Yes. It is given in Upaniṣads and Padma Purāṇa, authorized.

Rūpānuga: It's just that this one ten-thousandth tip of hair has no material quality. It is nonphysical but still can be measured.

Prabhupāda: Nonphysical... Just like axiomatic truth point has no length, no breadth, but it has length and breadth. You cannot measure it.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And actually God is there with the living entity, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He particularly pointed out, "Here is God within their core of the heart." Now the yogis, they try to find out God in his body, that is called meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). This is process of the yogis, to find out God within himself. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also stated jagatvena, tat tvena (?) Find out. So God is everywhere, there is no doubt about it. Within you, within me, within the atom, everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā also, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, "I am everywhere." So God is everywhere, that is God's omnipresence, omnipotency. But still God has His actual position. Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ.

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

(BG 9.4)

So this is a great science. If we understand, then we can understand what is God, what is His position, how He is great, everything. That is His greatness. Although He is in His own abode, still, He is everywhere. That is His greatness. I am here, I am not in my bedroom, but about God it is said, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātmā-bhuto (Bs. 5.37). That is God. He is far, far away from our, this planet. There is a planet, goloka eva nivasaty. He's there, but still He is everywhere. That is His greatness.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is perplexed conditioned. In this material world, you cannot find anyone who is not perplexed. Is there anyone who is not perplexed? Can anyone say that "I am not perplexed"? (laughs) Everyone is. Therefore everyone requires guru. But a guru knows. Guru means like Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Yes?

Guest (4): Sir, you explained that Paramātmā is within everyone, every individual, human and animal alike, and you also explained that Paramātmā is within every atom, too, within the universe. Does that means that I have one Paramātmā plus about six trillion other Paramātmās in the....

Prabhupāda: No, Paramātmā is the same. Paramātmā is the same. Not the Paramātmā within yourself is different from the Paramātmā within myself. The Paramātmā is the same. Just like the sun. If you put here millions of pots with water, in each pot you'll find the sun. But the sun is one. When the sun is on the head, you just phone your friend five hundred miles or five thousand miles away, "Can you tell me where is the sun?" He will say "It is on my head." How it is possible? Everyone will say, "Now the sun is on my head." That is Paramātmā. He is one, but everyone will say "He's within me, over my head." That is Paramātmā. Paramātmā is one, but He is everywhere. That is Paramātmā. And I am ātmā, I am only here, that's all. That is the difference. He's not different. Because He is within the core of the heart of a dog and within the core of the heart of a human being, He is different? No. He is the same. Therefore, paṇḍitāḥ samaḥ darśinaḥ.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (4): What about the other atoms within me or the dog? Do you understand what I'm getting at? There are millions of atoms.

Hari-śauri: He's saying this body is comprised of atoms, so the Paramātmā is present within this body alongside the individual soul that's operating this body. But there's also millions of other atoms, and Kṛṣṇa is also within the atoms as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): I thank you.

Vipina: Mr. Deyani brought a person that he studies under one time to meet me at the temple, and he took a very remote verse out of the Bhagavad-gītā about sacrifice, and his idea is that to perform yajña is the way to purify the universe in this age of Kali-yuga, and Deyani was very supportive of him. So I was wondering maybe you could explain a little.

Prabhupāda: Now yajña means, what does it mean, "by yajña"?

Mr. Deyani: Swamiji, he says that whole Vedic religion is in five, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma-śraddhāya.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually we can use just from earth all these ninety-two elements, like silver, gold...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is in the earth. So many varieties of mixture.

Rūpānuga: Now is there an atom for each? Is there a copper atom?

Prabhupāda: That we do not take care of atoms, we take gross estimation. Must be atomic differences. Just like gold and mercury, little atomic difference. And it is suggested that tin, copper, and mercury, proportionately mixed it will become gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once you told me that in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can do that experiment. Then our poverty will be... (laughter) It is fact. There are many yogis, they prepare gold by drinking mercury. They drink mercury, overnight, next morning they pass urine and dip copper coins in it. And then after some time the copper coins put into the fire, it becomes gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's alchemist.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do that. But it is a fact that copper and tin and mercury proportionately mixed will produce gold.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we had one explanation saying that now, the way we percept knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. So actually this is a fact, but in Mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it's almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. It is just like a simple jumble(?), while Nils Bohr, studying the structure of the atom. Now he had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at morning times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. But now his theories (indistinct), he could explain things on his own, but still it's completely wrong. So similarly...

Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is their proposition?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is possible, but that's why we're claiming that. They agree that because not only there is several facts in science, that one should be (indistinct) this is true, then suddenly by some new discoveries came out all wrong.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hṛd-deśe, He is within your heart. He is within atom. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). But you have no eyes to see Him. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Therefore those who are on the first-class platform of devotional service, they see everywhere Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa-deva-sphūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). He's seeing to the tree, but he's not seeing the tree; he's seeing Kṛṣṇa. That is a different. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra sphūrti. He sees this tree, how it is Kṛṣṇa's energy, how it is acting. He studies all things as He has studied in the Bhagavad-gītā. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva, on account of his love... That is a very common sense. If you love somebody, wherever you are, you are seeing your lover, "When I shall meet him, where he is, what he is doing?" That was the gopīs' business. Kṛṣṇa was on the pasturing ground, and gopīs are crying at home that "Kṛṣṇa's foot is so soft, and He is walking in the fields barefooted. How many, these crags, pricking Him?" In this way thinking, thinking, they were crying. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purely a spiritual movement. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult to understand the activities of this movement. There are two things, material and spiritual. That is the beginning of instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa begins with this statement: that this body is not the person, the soul is the person. Asmin dehe. Within this body there is the soul. And he has explained in different ways that this body is antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18). This body is perishable, but the soul is not perishable. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that even after the destruction of the body the soul is not destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul never takes birth, never dies. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). There are so many things explained, what is the soul. So without the soul, this body is useless. That everyone can understand. Therefore the importance should be given to the soul, not to the body. Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is paṇḍita, in knowledge, he does not give any importance to the body, either living or dead. So the India's particular culture is how to elevate the soul to the highest platform of perfection. That is India's culture. The whole Vedic literature is meant for that, and Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature. And the purpose is that soul is now entrapped within this material world, and the human life is the opportunity for getting oneself out of this entrapment of material existence. So if we do not take care of this important business of human life—as it is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra-athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for understanding about the Brahman or the spirit soul. And there are two kinds of spirit soul. One is called the Supersoul, and the other is called the individual soul. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñā. This chapter. Kṣetra means this body and kṣetrajñā means one who knows about the body. You know about your body. Not fully, but at least partially, every one of us we know, "This is my body. I am.... I got this body from such father and mother. I belong.... This body belongs to such and such country." And so on. This is one knowledge. So another soul is there. That is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. He says that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is Supersoul. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everywhere within this universe, even within the atom. That is Supersoul.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The point is that... You can explain in this way, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: (BG 9.26) "Anyone offering Me in devotion patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of śāstra that although He is far, far away, within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-para... He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not... Because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a guru who knows it.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa is within us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa is without. That is Kṛṣṇa, antar bahiḥ. Antar bahiḥ. Kuntī says in her prayers that "Kṛṣṇa, You are antar bahiḥ. Still, people cannot understand. You are... Without, You are existing, and within, You are..." Still, they are so rascal, they cannot understand. Antar bahiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is without, Kṛṣṇa is within, but they cannot see. That is their misfortune. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is within the paramāṇu, atom. Can you find out Kṛṣṇa? He says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd... (BG 18.61). He is within your heart. Can you find out? Then where is your science? It is already indicated that He is here. Find out. How you can find out? The dimension of the soul is given, one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. The tip of the hair, you divide into ten thousand parts and that one part is the dimension of the soul. How can you find out? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). Everything is written there. Now you find out the measurement. You cannot find out measurement of the tip of the hair. And you have to divide into ten thousand parts. Then the measurement of the soul will come. So how can you do it? But they are described in the śāstra. So go and see ārati. (end)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Kevala-bodha-labdhaye, kliśyanti. Just to know things, if he's simply troubling, his gain is that troubling only. Śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. So jñāna... This jñāna is to understand. Just like the scientists, they are getting some knowledge, studying some features, and what do they gain more?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Just information and a memory.

Prabhupāda: They cannot give any real position. They are studying so many molecules, so many atoms, so many this, so many... They are mixing... They are... That is already going on. How it is going on? Who has set up the machine going on? That they do not know.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. They don't know the key part of it.

Prabhupāda: Neither they can set up similar arrangement. They're simply studying.

Yogi Amrit Desai: They can study what is, but they do not know how it came about.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So where is jñāna? Ajñāna.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: One man challenged by me, a student, you know, "Sir, you said there is no God. Can you make a living cell even of a..., not of, much less animal, of a plant even?" And he looked with open mouth. "Can you make a single cell living? Cell of. Not of the whole tree." That is nature. That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntarastham. Paramāṇu. Āṇu. Then paramāṇu means smaller than the atom. Six paramāṇus makes one āṇu. Atomic dimension is the combination of six paramāṇus. So in that paramāṇu also the Lord is there.

Dr. Patel: He made it, and then He entered into it. That is what the Veda says.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Antara-stha. Yac-chakti... There is verse. The Paramātmā. Paramātmā is there. The whole human life is meant for understanding all this and glorifying the Lord. And they are wasting the life by imitating the hog. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujaṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ means stool; bhujā means eating. Yac-chaktir eṣa... What is that? There is a verse. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu... (Bs. 5.35).

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Polynesian actually.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is actually a type of Chinese people. That, our Bali-mardana's wife, belongs to that stock. But in order to elevate her she represents that "I belong to the Japanese." (laughs) but I have studied. She belongs to that Hawaii. Maybe her father or somebody was respectable or rich man in that Hawaii, but she does not belong to Japan. She is that Hawaiian-Chinese stock. So the United States, they have included this and going on nice. Their position is now secure. Nobody can invade. The Japanese tried to invade Pearl Harbor. Then finished. Atom bomb. The atom bomb was dropped on account of their attempt to invade this Pearl Harbor. In Honolulu there is Pearl Harbor.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's his... He doesn't come down. He's already there. He does not come down. Just like the sun. The sun does not come down before me, but you can see him. In this way give them enlightenment. Sun doesn't require to come down, but sun is so bright and so prominent that you can see. Similarly, God doesn't require to come down. He's already present. Simply we have to make our eyes to see Him. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). When one is competent enough by developing his love for God, he can see always. God is visible everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's everywhere. So there is no difficulty to see. But simply one has to possess such purified eyes to see Him. Otherwise He can be seen anywhere. He can be seen within the atom even. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. That is God. He is present everywhere, but we must have the purified eyes to see, we must have the purified ears to hear Him. Otherwise God is everywhere.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now some person...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...

Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They lay eggs.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How big it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know how big it is.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Affectionate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. How that can come about by this..., those pushes and pulls? That is our question. We inquire how can this be explained just in terms of atoms and molecules? If we assume that life is nothing but a manifestation of these pushes and pulls of these molecular interactions, then science has no explanation. Then we take example from Darwin himself, his own words.

Hari-śauri: Did you read this caption, Śrīla Prabhupāda, for this crocodile? 'Cause it explains how the male crocodile, he takes the egg underneath his tongue and he rolls it backwards and forwards very gently until the young crocodile hatches, and then he leaves his mouth open, and the little crocodile jumps out and swims ashore.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Hari-śauri: So the point they were making was that if it was simply a question of chemical reaction, that tendency...

Prabhupāda: How it is... How would that..., eggs.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We need to show the alternative.

Prabhupāda: No, a child can see there are two things, that what is the difference between a living man and dead man. So my father was living one moment before. Now he is dead. The something is missing. The two things are there. Where is the difficulty? And these big, big scientists, they cannot understand. How less intelligent they are. Immediately understood two things, but something is missing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somehow they have developed this false understanding that everything can be reduced to atoms and molecules.

Prabhupāda: That is still less intelligence, still less intelligence. Kartāham iti manyate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because life is something which is beyond experimental knowledge...

Prabhupāda: That means they do not know. Say that, "beyond experimental knowledge" or "beyond your capacity."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, they are hesitant to say that.

Prabhupāda: That is their poor fund of knowledge. A gentleman will accept, "Yes, we do not know." But they, in round about way, in order to keep their position, they'll bluff. That is most dangerous, bluffing.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is not the meaning. The meaning is: "Everyone is searching after Me, but they, unless they come to Me, they will search one after another position." What is the purport?

Bhavānanda: "Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have him. In the transcendental..."

Prabhupāda: Brahman... Brahman is also Kṛṣṇa, and Paramātmā is also Kṛṣṇa. So if one is attached to Brahman, he's also worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes, unlimited.

Rāmeśvara: Now, also there are many descriptions, or there are several descriptions in this verse, of the Lord's expansion as Paramātmā within the heart of every living entity and also within each atom. Now, a few years ago Bharadvāja drew this picture for Back to Godhead. We were thinking to make a painting similar to this showing that Viṣṇu is within the atom. And this will be used not only in this book, but also we were thinking to use this on the cover of Life Comes From Life.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: We can show these atomic rings?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Cause the scientists, when they draw pictures of the atom, they show these rings.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And recruit Indian scientists. Make it. It will be very nice. Let us go to Bombay and organize.

Rūpānuga: Because India now has the bomb, they are respected.

Bali-mardana: Atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: No, Indian people are more intelligent. There is no doubt about it. I... At least I see that during British period there were so many railway collisions. Now it is not there.

Bali-mardana: So many what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Railway collisions, and now there is none with the Indian drivers. Oh, yeah. We don't find... Although the roads are horrible here and there's no lights, there are very few accidents.

Prabhupāda: That I have studied already, that British period, occasionally so many railway accidents. But the Indian people, since svarāja, I see no railway accidents. And they are being managed, these railway lines, by śūdra class, less-intelligent class. So they are so intelligent.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa appreciated very much.

Hṛdayānanda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I loved that lecture.

Hṛdayānanda: It was wonderful last night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told Prabhupāda the lecture was like atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He told like that.

Hṛdayānanda: Said the atheistic leaders are like animals, stronger animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, big animal.

Hṛdayānanda: They especially liked your idea of American money and Indian culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: They applauded for that.

Prabhupāda: That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke, ten lakhs of rupees. Who brings?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: I think that science should be limited to people who have got Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Would you agree to that? You see in the beginning, when you select people for science, should you make it a prerequisite for admission that they should be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Maybe they will become better scientists, maybe they will not, you know, make atom bombs and destructive things if they were Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: I say to the scientists (indistinct) who as they say, life comes from chemicals. And I say that take some small egg. You can see, there are some substances like yellow substance and white substance. Analyze the chemicals and combine them and put in the incubator. You get one chicken. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, they say that life comes from chemicals. What is the answer?

Devotee: They say it is too complicated.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know, and you are passing your remark that life comes from chemicals. Such a rascal you are. You do not know what is the thing, and still, you are declaring your knowledge. You are misleading people. And you are captured, you say, "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it by trying." What is this nonsense? All post-dated check. So these rascals should be stopped. Speaking all lies, propaganda. Let him go to hell, I don't mind. But why they are misleading others? That is the greatest harm they have done. We attack them only for this reason. Otherwise, individually, you go to hell. Who cares for you? But in the name of science and becoming a scientist, you are misleading others. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. You are blind rascal, and you are leading other blind men. Why you are doing these harmful activities? You are admitting that you are blindly believing. So you are blind. You remain blind if you don't accept knowledge. Why you are trying to lead other blind men? Let them have knowledge. They have got the opportunity, this human form of life. This is the opportunity to get knowledge. And you are keeping them in darkness. Is that service to the human?

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.

Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that she will again become the prime...

Prabhupāda: Any moment she can become. It is a question of maneuvering.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Can we find the one in ourselves?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Self is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That one Lord is there within your heart. Where is the difficulty? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). All living entities—not only you, me-cats, dogs, everyone, even ants... Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. He is within the atom also. So there is no denying, He is everywhere.

eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.35)

So Īśvara, this, the Supreme, is living with you as Supersoul. So there is no doubt about it. You are also within the body, and He is also within the body. Find out this verse, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata, kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam (BG 13.3). You are individual soul, and He is also living as individual soul, but sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: He is living everywhere; you are living within your body. That is the difference.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I meant... And execute this.

Prabhupāda: All right, you do it. Don't delay. (break) Life is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stham. That life in due course of time, it comes out through the water. All of a sudden there is bubble coming down, coming down. That is the beginning of generation. What do you think, that? Jalajā. Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They are elevated very high planetary system. Again, after reminiscing, they come down. That is described in the śāstra, fall down through rains. Again, like bubbles, come out. (break) Where? The bottom of the earth, giving life. That is already done. In favorable circumstances, due course of time, it comes out. (aside:) You keep. (break) Lots of money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) In due course, in favorable circumstances, it is to be found out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That jīva comes along with the rain?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That jīva, the ātmā, comes...

Prabhupāda: Comes from. Yes.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll do it after. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So why don't you develop?

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Even within the atom there is living entity. Just like within the seed there is living entity, and when the seed gets favorable circumstances, the life is there. It fructifies. Different seeds, different life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is true only, though, in the earth planet. In the earth.

Prabhupāda: Earth?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this planet.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Everywhere there is water and there is... That's all.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Everywhere there is water and there is... That's all.

Brahmānanda: But there is not water on every planet.

Prabhupāda: That is rascals' theory, all rascal. Wherever there is planet, there is water, there is everything. If there is no water, where from the sand comes? Scientifically? What is the sand? Hm?

Brahmānanda: The composition of sand?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Composition is silica.

Prabhupāda: Silica. What is silica?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Silica contains one atom of silicon and two atoms of oxygen, but in the case of an acid, it contains two atoms of hydrogen.

Prabhupāda: Acid is liquid.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Silicic acid?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Water?

Prabhupāda: The rainfall. With the rainfall, those who are fallen souls, they are coming down. Then takes shelter within the atom. Then again grows.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's interesting that science says also that in the beginning there was only hydrogen. So actually water is... Its main composition of two parts of hydrogen...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One part of oxygen. So if the soul is coming through this water, through rain from higher planetary system...

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They elevate, again fall down. This is going on. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). But when they go to Kṛṣṇaloka, then they are... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That also corresponds with another theory, a scientific theory, is that the origin of life comes from other planets. That is one theory, not Darwin. This is not Darwin.

Prabhupāda: Darwin... Grand rascal. All speculation. Transportation I told.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think in our student there was some Kundu. The same?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He looks like in his sixties.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then... May or may not. It doesn't matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were discussing about life, and he was talking about the idea that Kṛṣṇa is within the atom.

Prabhupāda: Atom is matter. And within atom there is God. That is God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the point was...

Prabhupāda: They have not fully analyzed within the atom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aṇḍāntarastha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the point was that there is life within the atom. But that life is not... The consciousness is not developing to the extent that...

Prabhupāda: That is very natural. Just like in a child there is life. But it is not... Consciousness is not developed. That does not mean there is no life. That you can see, daily affair. The same child, when he's grown up or changed body, his activities will change. So where is the difference? Difference—when he was a childish body, the consciousness was not developed, and when he's transferred in another body, his consciousness will develop. This is the point. The ant, there is life.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's life in any material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to avoid that...

Prabhupāda: In the physical combination of atoms is combination of life also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to make a distinction between that life and the matter, especially to the material scientific community, we were thinking of presenting in the manner that matter, though in the spiritual sense there is nothing like matter, but still, there is matter...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no... Matter means matter develops on spirit. Without spirit there is no existence of matter. Just like spirit means consciousness. You see in this finger. Here is consciousness, and little after, there is no consciousness, this nail. But the nail has grown from the skin. So therefore, from consciousness, unconsciousness... Not that from unconsciousness, consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good example.

Prabhupāda: Unconsciousness means absence of consciousness.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Current scientific theory holds that life is a product of molecular interaction." (break)

Dr. Kapoor: I think they should attack the very basic concept of science.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kapoor: The very basic concept of science should be attacked, the molecules and the atoms. They say life comes out of molecules. But what, according to modern science, are molecules themselves? You see, before... (break) ...molecules disappear. As a matter of fact, particle disappears, you see. What remains...

Prabhupāda: Oh, they knew... They have written... That they have denied. It is not chemical-physical.

Dr. Kapoor: The scientists themselves admit that what remains in the last analysis is something akin to consciousness, and not what we call matter or particle. Even supposing life comes out of molecules...

Prabhupāda: So he has met many scientists.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.' Everyone knows that the first thing scientists did when discovering atomic energy was to manufacture the atom bomb and promptly drop two of them on Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, thus annihilating millions of innocent victims in a flash. It is certainly marvelous. (Prabhupāda and Tamāla chuckling) At the expense of untold billions of dollars and years of research and hard labor, scientists have gone to the moon, snapped a few blurry photos, and brought back a handful of rocks, declared to the world that 'There was nothing there, so now we will try to go to Mars.' What is so marvelous about this? It is completely lunacy, if anything. On our earthly planet, millions of people are without food, shelter, and simple education. Instead of spending billions of dollars to bring rocks from the moon, science would be more credible if they would rather spend the hard-earned taxpayer's money for improving his own lot on earth. Rocks are rocks, whether from the Moon, from Mars or from China. Or is it that science can turn the rocks into bread and cheese by applying some chemicals? Now, to get to the main article, in answer to Kovoor's question of what objective evidence I have made the fantastic statement that life comes from life and matter also comes from life, and that there is soul, rebirth of the soul, and Supreme Soul, God, they say fight fire with fire, and so I have taken advantage of three scientists who happen to be members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and, I dare say, more qualified than the so-called Dr. Kovoor, who is only an honorary doctor..."

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So? How things are going on?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Things are going nicely, though we didn't have too many guests today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. A little more than fifty came. Most of them will be coming tomorrow, and Sunday will be all full. 'Cause today is still Friday, and in Delhi all the schools are still open. But we came, quite a few interesting scientists from Delhi. And one had only one question. Otherwise nobody had anything. I spoke for about two hours on the difference between life and matter, and we showed that the science, modern science, actually does not study life. They only study inanimate matter, atoms and molecules. So they think that life could also be just atoms and molecules. But we showed that that is wrong, and they shouldn't propagate this false idea. Especially in India, I especially made a request to all the scholars, saying that "You should take this very seriously, and should try to expose this in genuine spirit of knowledge all over the world, because the Western science and technology, we tend to think that everything is the absolute truth because science is coming from the West, but we're saying that that is too narrow-minded. We should be a little broad-minded and we should also consider other possible alternatives." And we demonstrated that modern science actually cannot explain about the nature of life. So we requested that in the coming two days we'll establish this on a more scientific basis, that this is not just religious dogma; it is based on complete, genuine, scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So where they are staying?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're staying all in the guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: And their food?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Prasādam is served in that big hall where we were planning to have the bank? No, the garage. It is very clean. It is all decorated. And we have tables and chairs. We have in a buffet style. Also devotees have been serving.

Prabhupāda: And where the conference is being held?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Conference is held in that bank room.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Can't read it? Okay. Is there a flashlight? The heading, Śrīla Prabhupāda, says, "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." Nonphysical view. "Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957. But the challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' " The challengers don't accept it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Our... Our. O.B.L. Kapoor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Godbrother.

Guest (2): What does he say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says life comes from atoms and molecules, Dr. Kapoor. This is his conclusion after all these years reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. He said like that in the conference.

Guest (2): He said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, something like that, very vague. Complete misunderstanding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his point in the conference?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was saying there is nothing like table. He was sitting on a table. So it is just an imagination. There's nothing like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says it's illusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he said it's illusion.

Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa instructs, but he does not take. He wants to remain in māyā and at the same time claim that he is liberated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, modern science tries to compromise... I'm sorry: Māyāvādīs try to compromise with modern science.

Prabhupāda: There is no other way. They cannot make a solution, so they must try to make a compromise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Just like when we say that spiritual atom or ātmā is innumerable in numbers, they immediately come up.

Prabhupāda: Sa anantyāya kalpate. As there are many molecules in the sunshine, similarly-yasya prabhā (Bs. 5.40)—by..., in the effulgence of God there are so many molecules, or spiritual spark.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, even it makes stronger now, that within the atom, if there is a jīva or life which is not developed, so it will be many more, innumerable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). That is the difficulty. They do not want to take śāstra as it is.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a science conference here in Gurukula just about a little more than a week ago.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Here in this new building?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the same building, at the same hall that you're going to hold your conference. I invited several scholars, scientists around Delhi and Agra. Also Śrīla Prabhupāda's disciples, scientist disciples, came from around the world. The basic theme was to show that life is coming from the supreme life. In other words everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. But modern science says that we are just product of atoms and molecules.

Haṁsadūta: This is an article which was published in The Statesman, October 22nd, which covers this meeting. It says, "The Nonphysical View on the Origin of Species. Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group life is..." (break)

(Bhakti-caru and kavirāja-Bengali to end)