Prabhupāda: Then next day, again in the same place, Nityānanda came, and He requested, "My dear brothers, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the Mādhāi, no Jagāi, Jagāi was so angry. They were drinking. So here you drink in bottles. They drink in earthen pot. So there was earthen pot. He hurled against His head and there was blood oozing out. So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not.
Association of pure devotees (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"associate"
|"associating"
|"association"
|"pure devotee"
|"pure devotees"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the remark of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. But according to others' opinion, even simply by chanting, that is sufficient. In the Bhāgavata it is stated like that. But Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has remarked that this chanting referred to the context. Immediately he remembered Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: In that same connection, the story of Ṭhākura Haridāsa and the harlot. She began to chant and told him the reason that she was a prostitute, she was no good and simply by that association she began to chant or by previous association...
Prabhupāda: No, by association. By the influence of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. For three days, three days she associated.
Himāvatī: But Professor Sanyal was putting forward his theory that in previous lives she had had association; therefore she began to chant.
Prabhupāda: Why previous lives? That's not very good reason.
Himāvatī: Subconscious, that she had subconsciously remembered.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. That is not.
Himāvatī: In one of the Back to Godhead magazines
Prabhupāda: That is not. He advocates that.(?) Direct association with Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Why previously?
Himāvatī: We want to say that previously she had done some chanting.
Prabhupāda: We don't find any such thing. Professor Sanyal was not very much advanced. He committed so many blunders.
Himāvatī: You heard about that article?
Prabhupāda: No.
Himāvatī: That was the (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Well, if that sort of remark is given it is not against the śāstra, but it was not necessarily previously. His direct association... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,
- sādhu saṅga sādhu saṅga sarva śāstra kaya
- lava mātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya
- (CC Madhya 22.54)
"Even a moment's association with a pure devotee—all success." Not necessarily that one has to acquire it previous, no. Generally it is so, but sādhu sanga has got its effect. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, lavamatra sādhu sanga sarva siddhi haya. You have not read in the Sanātana-śikṣā in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya?
Revatīnandana: Does that also apply to reading the words of a pure devotee?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Even a little association with your books has the same effect?
Prabhupāda: Effect, of course, it requires both the things. One must be very eager to take it. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and there are so many others. They are also reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit was very serious. So both things should be serious. Just like the example: the husband and wife must be potent; then there is pregnancy. Otherwise there is no pregnancy. So sewing the seed, the field also must be fertile or receptive, then the seed will fructify. It is reciprocal.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He, because he's a vaikuṇṭha person who could understand that this boy is eager to hear, so he very much appreciated. So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganeśa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupāda immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side diminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa and Prabhupāda liked it to prepare me. Śrīdhara Mahārāja lived as a...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaiṣṇava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Śrīdhara Mahārāja head. And I wanted to mix... At that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja, one of my friend's house at Sealdah... Śrīdhara Mahārāja, you may remember those things. I wanted to organize in so many ways, but somehow or other...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I had one house in Station Road belonging to Naren Mullik. (indistinct) very small (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he wanted to rent us only for ninety rupees. I told him, "You just give me the concession. He, at that time he was getting 125, but because I am his friend, "All right, I'll give you, ninety rupees." So that could not happen somehow or other. So I was trying from the very beginning after the disappearance of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once. (SB 1.10.11)"
Prabhupāda: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of māyā. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Brahmānanda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Brahmānanda: And they all contribute...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...part of their salary.
Prabhupāda: So if you make that association, that will not help you. Joint mess, dormitory. Or joint family. Just like in India. There are five brothers. They're earning. Father and mother is the leader. They're handing over the money, and the father, mother managing. That is Indian system, a joint family. So joint family or joint mess, the same thing. So if you make like that, a center, then it is no good. You must get spiritual strength. Karmī strength will not help you.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: As the karmīs, they are in the bodily concept of life. They are working day and night trying to improve the material condition of life, not only in this life, but also in the next life. They are performing different ritualistic ceremonies for being promoted to the heavenly planet, like that. So they are all karmīs. Either in this world or in the next world, they are called karmīs. So karmī means they want comfort of this body. And the yogis, they are also on the concept of this body. They are identifying this body as designated Brahman, upādhi-brahma, "Brahman with designation." But their central point is this body. That... This bodily concept of life, so long it continues in the form of karma-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, it can give him relief from the cycle of birth and death and merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahma-sāyujya-mukti, this is called, technically. The jñānīs also. But that is not final. There is still farther. Even there is brahma-sārūpya-mukti, brahma-sālokya-mukti, brahma-sarṣṭi-mukti. So generally, the yogis and the jñānīs, they aim at brahma-sāyujya-mukti, to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But that is not final. Final is bhakti-yoga. After advancing, if the yogi gets the chance of associating with pure devotee and he engages himself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, that is final perfection.
Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, in your lecture, you mentioned how in this age it's very difficult to remain chaste or free of...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting limitation on Kṛṣṇa, to say that you cannot see.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting a limitation on Kṛṣṇa if one says that He cannot be seen.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... Of course, you cannot challenge Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, if He likes, He can reveal Himself to you. Therefore, you can know God. Just like Kṛṣṇa reveals. He comes and He... (aside:) Don't... He reveals Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). So when man forgets, so He comes, reveals Himself. And He leaves behind Him the Bhagavad-gītā, knowledge about Him. So where is the difficulty? He comes when you forget Him, and He leaves behind Him the knowledge by which you can understand. Where is the difficulty?
Paramahaṁsa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam that says that one moment's association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gītā, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can associate with Kṛṣṇa by reading Bhagavad-gītā. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You've said that the Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa's mind.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His mind. Why do you say like that? This is material conception, the soul is different from body, the mind is different from soul. But Kṛṣṇa has no such difference. Therefore He's called absolute. Advaya-jñāna. His mind and Kṛṣṇa are the same. Kṛṣṇa and His name is the same. Kṛṣṇa and His words are the same. This is Kṛṣṇa understanding. Jesus Christ simply said that "Hallowed be Thy name." That means there is name. Now the question is why he did not say or utter the name? Now, there is already name. Why should he utter?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Right.
Prabhupāda: There is already name, Kṛṣṇa. So why should he utter?
Paramahaṁsa: Is that why Christ didn't utter the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, he said, "Hallowed be Thy name. Hallowed be Thy name." So there is name already. That means he gave you chance to find out the name. And as he came to India, so you come to India and you'll get the name.
Paramahaṁsa: It's also said that if you follow perfectly the rules and regulations, but don't develop love for Kṛṣṇa, then you have wasted your time.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You give him something to eat, and whatever he or she gives, you eat. Bhuṅkte bhojayate ca. And guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you try to understand his heart, and your heart be disclosed to him or her. If you follow these principles, automatically the loving propensity will awaken. It is already there. It is not artificial. It has simply to be awakened by a certain process. So that process we are prescribing, to rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, worship Deity, offer food stuff, eat prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who will follow this principle, he will become purified. There is no need of education, because the devotion is already there.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Ācāryopāsanam. That is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ācāryopāsanam. It is not self-aggrandizement. The ācāryopāsanā goes to Kṛṣṇa directly. Therefore it is needed. Not that it is a pompous thing. Ācāryopāsanā. Kṛṣṇa says. That is the way of knowledge. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23).
Pañcadraviḍa: How does that work, that if somebody has the association of a pure devotee for only a lava, one-eleventh of a second, that he attains all perfection?
Prabhupāda: If he is so sincere.... Just like dried wood immediately ignites. And if it is moist, it does not. It is the quality of the wood. One takes three hundred years; one in three minutes. That's it. (break) One is dry from the material moist of contamination, he becomes immediately ignited in spiritual...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that drying process?
Prabhupāda: Drying process is for many, many years one has tried to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, for many, many lives, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). When he actually becomes man of knowledge he surrenders unto God. Otherwise he is lost. His drying process may take three minute or three millions years.
Guru-kṛpā: But that knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is everything comes by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is already there, but if you are not able to take it...
Pañcadravida: Then you don't even have to hear from a self-realized soul. Simply by seeing him you can become completely purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both required. The matches must be also all right, and the wood must be also. Then there is fire. If one of them is defective, then, it will not.... But when you go to the fire, you become dry. But willfully we put again water. This nonsense business makes us late. This process is already there, how to become dry. But instead of taking the process, we put water. Then how it will be ignited? The rules and regulations is the drying process. But without following the rules and regulation, if you again become a victimized by māyā, then there is water and again dry it. So this is going on, watering and drying, watering and drying. No staightforward process for drying. That will help. But difficulty is that we dry and again water.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: To a devotee it is very clear, the laws of karma. He sees how that God, Kṛṣṇa, is just.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means tattva-darśī. He has seen the real truth. Devotee means who follows Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is giving the real truth. If you take, then you are devotee. If you don't take, you are nondevotee.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the role of mercy if one takes or doesn't take?
Prabhupāda: Mercy means.... Suppose you are a devotee. Unknowingly or by some bad habit you have done something wrong. That is excused. But if you intentionally do, that "I am devotee; Kṛṣṇa will excuse me," then you are rascal.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the greatest offense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating. Cheating Kṛṣṇa. Cheating Kṛṣṇa is no business. That is to be punished. You cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa. But if by accident, knowingly or unknowingly you have done something which is not good, that is excused. Sva-pāda-mūlaṁ bhajataḥ priyasya. If you are actually, because you have given so much service to Kṛṣṇa, you have become very dear to Him, so unknowingly you have done, committed sin—excused. Bhajataḥ priyasya. This word is used. You must have to become very dear to Him. Then if you accidentally commit some sin, that is excused.
Guru dāsa: What does "unknowingly" mean, Śrīla...
Prabhupāda: Unknowingly means..., suppose you are a smoker. So now you have given up everything. But in the association of some smoker you incline, "All right, let me smoke." Then you regret, "Oh, I have done this." It can happen. So that is excused. But if you think, "Now I am a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. I can smoke like anything, and everything will be excused," then you are a rascal.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are knowing that we are so sinful and we're so rascals, but having the opportunity of association of pure devotee and Kṛṣṇa, that's also mercy...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Because we can see that we are..., our hearts are not clean, and we are constantly thinking of māyā...
Prabhupāda: Education, education.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is mercy. This is greatest mercy.
Prabhupāda: Just like you are being educated. Not that cent percent mark you are getting, but because you are trying to be educated, so that is also good. That is also good.
Devotee(1): Therefore the association is most important.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very important, so that if I commit some mistake, I'll regret: "Oh, my other associate, he is not coming to act in that..." That chance he'll get.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we pay a little attention to Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa gives us a lot of attention.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we'll give you another report later on. It's successful. That's a fact. Only these are suggestions how it can be improved. We'll speak with Svarūpa Dāmodara about it. (break) ...from the devotees in France, Bhagavān's zone. In fact, it's a four-page telegram. Should I read it? It says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our most humble obeisances at your lotus feet. Knowing how dear your book distribution is to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees in France would like to humbly offer you the results of our week-long marathon saṅkīrtana, hoping in some way to please you." Śrīla Prabhupāda? The devotees there, they went out on book distribution for twelve hours every day. All the devotees. They went out every day for seven days in a row, for twelve hours each day. And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says, "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gītās in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We usually print of a Bhāgavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gītās in one week in French, Bhagavad-gītās in French. He says, "...to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard..." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. "...who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day. "Jagad-vaśī dāsa, who distributed 1,125 big books; Ariṣṭa-nāśana dāsa, 864 books; Veśa-kīrti dāsa, 851 big books; Akhileśvara dāsa 835 big books; Kṛpā-siddha dāsa, 760 big books." Then they say, "Thank you for allowing us to assist you in preaching this message of Lord Caitanya in the Western countries. All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your humble servants, the devotees in France." Pretty big distribution. Bhagavān estimates that they collected over sixty thousand dollars in one week. It's amazing. Seems like Kṛṣṇa is giving unlimited facilities to spread His glories, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not want liberation. We want to serve the purpose of the Gosvāmīs, in association with pure devotees. To stop birth and death is not our purpose. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās, janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ.
| Page Title: | Association of pure devotees (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 14 of Mar, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=10, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 10 |