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Ascending process of acquiring knowledge

Srimad-Bhagavatam

SB Canto 3

In one sense, absolute transcendental variegatedness is meant only for the devotees, not for others, because this distinct feature of transcendental variegatedness can be understood only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord and not by mental speculation or the ascending process.
SB 3.15.47, Purport:

In the material world, any quality—goodness, passion or ignorance—is contaminated. Even the quality of goodness here in the material world is not free from tinges of passion and ignorance. But in the transcendental world, only pure goodness, without any tinge of passion or ignorance, exists; therefore the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His variegated pastimes and paraphernalia are all pure sattva-guṇa. Such variegatedness in pure goodness is exhibited eternally by the Lord for the satisfaction of the devotee. The devotee does not want to see the Supreme Personality of Absolute Truth in voidness or impersonalism. In one sense, absolute transcendental variegatedness is meant only for the devotees, not for others, because this distinct feature of transcendental variegatedness can be understood only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord and not by mental speculation or the ascending process. It is said that one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead when one is even slightly favored by Him; otherwise, without His mercy, a man may speculate for thousands of years and not understand what is actually the Absolute Truth.

SB Canto 4

The cause of all causes, the Absolute Truth, can be known from the Absolute Truth Himself, and not by our ascending process to reach Him.
SB 4.11.23, Translation and Purport:

The Absolute Truth, Transcendence, is never subject to the understanding of imperfect sensory endeavor, nor is He subject to direct experience. He is the master of varieties of energies, like the full material energy, and no one can understand His plans or actions; therefore it should be concluded that although He is the original cause of all causes, no one can know Him by mental speculation.

The question may be raised, "Since there are so many varieties of philosophers theorizing in different ways, which of them is correct?" The answer is that the Absolute Truth, Transcendence, is never subject to direct experience or mental speculation. The mental speculator may be called Dr. Frog. The story is that a frog in a three-foot well wanted to calculate the length and breadth of the Atlantic Ocean on the basis of his knowledge of his own well. But it was an impossible task for Dr. Frog. A person may be a great academician, scholar or professor, but he cannot speculate and expect to understand the Absolute Truth, for his senses are limited. The cause of all causes, the Absolute Truth, can be known from the Absolute Truth Himself, and not by our ascending process to reach Him. When the sun is not visible at night or when it is covered by a cloud in the day, it is not possible to uncover it, either by bodily or mental strength or by scientific instruments, although the sun is there in the sky. No one can say that he has discovered a torchlight so powerful that if one goes on a roof and focuses the torchlight on the night sky, the sun will then be seen. There is no such torchlight, nor is it possible.

Other Books by Srila Prabhupada

Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Studying Vedānta-sūtra by one's own efforts (the ascending process of knowledge) is another sign of foolishness.
Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 18:

As long as one is within the limited jurisdiction of fruitive activities or is involved in mental speculation, he may perhaps be eligible to study or teach the theoretical knowledge of Vedānta-sūtra, but he cannot understand the supreme, eternal, transcendental (completely liberated) vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. One who has achieved perfection in chanting the transcendental Hare Kṛṣṇa vibration does not have to separately learn the philosophy of Vedānta-sūtra. According to the teachings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the bona fide spiritual master, those who do not understand the transcendental vibration as being nondifferent from the Supreme and who try to become Māyāvādī philosophers or experts in Vedānta-sūtra are all fools. Studying Vedānta-sūtra by one's own efforts (the ascending process of knowledge) is another sign of foolishness. He who has attained a taste for chanting the transcendental vibration, however, actually attains the conclusion of Vedānta. In this connection, there are two verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam which are very instructive. The purport of the first is that even if a low caste person is engaged in chanting the transcendental vibration, it is to be understood that he has performed all types of renunciation, austerities and sacrifice and has studied all the Brahma-sūtras. Thus one can be able to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The purport of the second verse is that one who chants the two syllables Ha-ri must be considered to have studied all the Vedas: the Ṛg Veda, Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda and Sāma Veda.

The Absolute Truth must descend from the absolute platform. He is not to be understood by the ascending process.
Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 18:

In three out of the four millenniums (namely Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga and Dvāpara-yuga) people had the honor to be able to understand transcendence through the path of disciplic succession. However, in the present age, people have no interest in the disciplic succession. Instead, they have invented many paths of logic and argument. This individual attempt to understand the supreme transcendence (called the ascending process) is not approved by the Vedas. The Absolute Truth must descend from the absolute platform. He is not to be understood by the ascending process. The holy name of the Lord—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare—is a transcendental vibration because it comes from the transcendental platform, the supreme abode of Kṛṣṇa. Because there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His name, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is as pure, perfect and liberated as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Academic scholars have no entrance by means of logic and other argument into the understanding of the transcendental nature of the holy name of God. The single path in understanding the transcendental nature of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is the chanting of these names with faith and adherence. Such chanting will release one from designated conditions arising from the gross and subtle bodies.

Renunciation Through Wisdom

Dry speculators, having been repulsed by the material phenomena in their search for knowledge of the Absolute, think that the transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also repulsive, thus clearly proving that their ascending process of acquiring knowledge is insufficient and inferior.
Renunciation Through Wisdom 2.2:

Brahman exists as the all-pervading energy in this phenomenal world. Therefore the Vedas have defined Brahman as formless, impersonal, pure, and so on. But the source of Brahman is an eternal personality who has no material form but who has a transcendental form full of spiritual potencies and all divine qualities. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the embodiment of eternity, knowledge, and bliss. He possesses all six transcendental opulences to an infinite degree, He performs superexcellent divine pastimes, and He alone is to be searched out and known in all the scriptures. The materialistic, fruitive workers make the mistake of thinking that this supreme transcendental personality is mundane, and thus they become degraded into pseudodevotees. And the dry speculators, having been repulsed by the material phenomena in their search for knowledge of the Absolute, think that the transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is also repulsive, thus clearly proving that their ascending process of acquiring knowledge is insufficient and inferior. Both these groups are in a pathetic spiritual state. Therefore, to shower His causeless mercy upon them, the Supreme Lord has revealed the truth about Himself and His transcendental potencies in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Jñāna-yoga should never be interpreted to mean the ascending process of enquiry, the inductive method.
Renunciation Through Wisdom 3.1:

Real knowledge means to discriminate between truth and illusion. Jñāna-yoga is the process by which one becomes eternally fixed on the path of transcendental devotional service to the Supreme Lord, who is the source of the Supersoul and Brahman. Jñāna-yoga should never be interpreted to mean the ascending process of enquiry, the inductive method, through which one aims only at separating reality from illusion by gradually rejecting the unreal. It is impossible to attain perfect knowledge without serving the Supreme Lord, who is full with all opulences and potencies, whose bodily luster is the Brahman effulgence, and whose partial expansion is the Supersoul. The brāhmaṇa Gopāla Cakravartī believed that jñāna, perfect knowledge, is far superior to devotional service of the Lord.

Mundane philosophers who try to attain the Supreme through the ascending process of knowledge can never achieve their goal.
Renunciation Through Wisdom 4.1:

Mundane philosophers who try to attain the Supreme through the ascending process of knowledge can never achieve their goal. The only result of such an attempt, which naturally confuses them, is that they become rooted to the misunderstanding that man is God and vice versa, thus clearing their way to hell. A few among them may have a moment's glimpse of transcendence, but end up concluding everything backwards. They fall prey to the erroneous impersonal principle.

Message of Godhead

The conception of the Absolute is never perfectly attained by an ascending process, because of its being born of imperfect, material senses.
Message of Godhead Introduction:

The philosophers and the logicians have tried to understand the intrinsic relationship of living entities with God by various conceptions and methods, on the strength of their mundane education and scholastic research. But the Absolute Truth remains above the philosophers and their acquired knowledge. The conception of the Absolute is never perfectly attained by such an ascending process, because of its being born of imperfect, material senses. These empiric philosophers and logicians cannot realize their imperfection by the vanity of material knowledge, and the ultimate conclusion of such materialistic philosophers is atheism. They deny the existence of God, who is the Supreme Person, different from all other persons. Under such a vague assumption, we remain in the same darkness as before. We are content with a conception of Godhead according to our own individual idea, without knowing the real relationship of Godhead and ourselves.

A mahātmā never tries to approach Godhead by any invented method, any inductive, ascending process.
Message of Godhead 2:

The people in general will follow what the leaders, without any transcendental knowledge, ask them to do. The leaders, therefore, must be aware of this fact for the benefit of all concerned. The leaders must know first of all how they can do good for their followers, by understanding the real method of karma-yoga, or work with transcendental results. If the physician is himself a diseased fellow, how can he endeavor to heal others? The physician must heal himself first, before treating the disease of the general public. To gratify the senses of the diseased fellow is not the business of a real physician. A good, qualified physician cannot indulge the patient by merely satisfying him, but must prescribe the real medicine, whether it satisfy the senses of the patient or not.

The leaders therefore must know that the real disease of the people in general is their aversion to serve the almighty Godhead, Viṣṇu. So if, instead of treating the people's inherent disease—atheism—the leaders simply show a superficial sympathy for the disease's symptoms, certainly there will be no benefit whatsoever for suffering humanity. The real remedy for this disease lies in partaking of the remnants of offerings made to Godhead; this is the ideal diet for the spiritual patient. And the medicines include hearing and chanting and remembering the glories of Godhead, worshiping the transcendental form of Godhead, offering Him transcendental service, accepting Him as one's supreme friend and, lastly, surrendering unto Him in all circumstances. The leaders should therefore arrange for this diet and these medicines—if they really want to dissipate the sufferings of humanity.

At the same time, it is pleasing to see that the veteran leader Mahatma Gandhi is trying his best to invent a method for bringing in a godly atmosphere all over the world. He is preaching restraint, toleration, moral principles, and so on. But it is not possible to reach the unlimited by any novel, invented method, which is always limited. The Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, has therefore said in the Bhagavad-gītā that after many births, learned sages eventually surrender unto Him, and that such a mahātmā who is able to connect everything that be to Vāsudeva (the plenary manifestation of Viṣṇu) is rarely to be seen. The purport is that mahātmās are everywhere, but the mahātmā who knows the real relationship between Godhead and the manifested world is very rare.

Such a mahātmā never tries to approach Godhead by any invented method, any inductive, ascending process. Rather, he accepts the standard, deductive, descending process—that is, the method that comes down directly from the Supreme Lord or through His bona fide representatives.

By the ascending process, no one can reach the Lord, even by a long-term endeavor of many, many years.
Message of Godhead 2:

By the ascending process, no one can reach the Lord, even by a long-term endeavor of many, many years. What is obtained by this ascending process, however, is imperfect, partial, impersonal knowledge, liable to be deviant from the Absolute Truth.

Sri Isopanisad

If you want to research to find out whether man is mortal, you have to study each and every man, and you may come to think that there may be some man who is not dying but you have not seen him yet. So in this way your research will never be finished. In Sanskrit this process is called āroha, the ascending process.
Sri Isopanisad Introduction:

If you want to research to find out whether man is mortal, you have to study each and every man, and you may come to think that there may be some man who is not dying but you have not seen him yet. So in this way your research will never be finished. In Sanskrit this process is called āroha, the ascending process. If you want to attain knowledge by any personal endeavor, by exercising your imperfect senses, you will never come to the right conclusions. That is not possible.

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

So if you try to understand yourself, then you can understand what is God. Or other way, if you understand God, then you understand everything. One way is ascending process, one process is descending process.
Lecture on BG 2.13 -- Mombassa, September 13, 1971:

God is suppose the lump of gold and we are a little particle of gold. So although we are little particle, by quality we are gold. God is gold, we are gold. So if you can understand your position, then you can understand God also. Just like from a bag of rice you take a few grains and see, then you can understand what is the quality of rice in the bag and you can evaluate it, price. So if you try to understand yourself, then you can understand what is God. Or other way, if you understand God, then you understand everything. One way is ascending process, one process is descending process. Just like on the roof there is some sound. Now we are here, we are not on the roof, we may conjecture or theorize what is that sound. Somebody will say some cat must be there, somebody will say that some man must be there. In this way, we can go on speculate. This is also one process. This is called ascending process. And descending process means if there is one person on the roof, he says, "This sound is due to this," then that is also perfect knowledge. So we get knowledge from the higher authorities, that is perfect knowledge and that is easier.

Our process is descending process. We are not trying to understand by the ascending process.
Lecture on BG 2.26 -- Hyderabad, November 30, 1972:

Our process is descending process. We are not trying to understand by the ascending process. Inductive or deductive. We accept the statements of the Vedas. Therefore we haven't got to make much effort to understand a thing. Veda-vacana, śruti, śruti-pramāṇa. There are three kinds of evidences: direct perception, and evidence from the Vedas, and evidence from history. Aitihya. Pratyakṣa, aitihya, śruti. Three kinds of evidences. So pratyakṣa and aitihya is neglected. According to our Vedic system, śruti-pramāṇa, if it is statement, the statement is there in the śruti, in the Vedas, then we accept.

The Vedic process says, avaroha-panthā, descending process. And the material process is āroha-panthā, ascending process, research.
Lecture on BG 4.5 -- Montreal, June 10, 1968:

The Vedic process says, avaroha-panthā, descending process. And the material process is āroha-panthā, ascending process, research. This is āroha-panthā, find out whether this, what is this, what is this, neti, neti, neti, neti, analysis, dissection, and so many. This is called āroha-panthā. Trying to ascend by dint of one's material knowledge. Then spiritual knowledge, you cannot have perfect knowledge... Why spiritual knowledge? Even material knowledge. Now there are so many attempts to go to the moon planet. They are trying to go there by so many ascending processes, sputnik, airplanes, and so many things. Still, we do not know what is this planet.

Spiritual master becomes by disciplic succession, ascending process.
Lecture on BG 4.34-39 -- Los Angeles, January 12, 1969:

In the Kaṭhopaniṣad the Vedas says that "If you want to learn transcendental science, so you have to approach a bona fide spiritual master." And who is bona fide spiritual master? That is also described, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "One who has heard from his spiritual master." This is... Spiritual master becomes by disciplic succession, ascending process. Just like we learn "Man is mortal" from higher authority, from my father, from mother or any other authority.

One process is to understand by the ascending process.
Lecture on BG 6.13-15 -- Los Angeles, February 16, 1969:

One process is to understand by the ascending process. And another process is the descending process. Just like in darkness, if you try to understand what is sun by ascending process, by flying your very powerful airplane or sputniks, just go round over the sky, you cannot see. But the descending process, when the sun rises, you understand immediately.

Ascending process—my endeavor, what is called inductive process.
Lecture on BG 6.13-15 -- Los Angeles, February 16, 1969:

Ascending process—my endeavor, what is called inductive process. Inductive process. Just like my father says that man is mortal. I accept it. Now if you want to study whether man is mortal, you study, you see many thousands of men, whether he is immortal or mortal. That will take so much time. But if you take the knowledge from the superior authority, that man is mortal, your knowledge is complete.

"My dear Lord, a person who has received a little favor from You, he can understand You very quickly. And others who are trying to understand You by the ascending process, they may go on speculating for millions of years, they will never understand."
Lecture on BG 6.13-15 -- Los Angeles, February 16, 1969:

So athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta... jānāti tattvaṁ bhagavan-mahimno na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan (SB 10.14.29). Therefore it is said, "My dear Lord, a person who has received a little favor from You, he can understand You very quickly. And others who are trying to understand You by the ascending process, they may go on speculating for millions of years, they will never understand." They will never understand. They will come to the point of frustration and confusion. "Oh, God is zero." That's all, finished. If God is zero, then how from zero so many, I mean to say, figures coming out? God is zero.

You are to simply serve Him, then He will reveal. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by your ascending process.
Lecture on BG 6.13-15 -- Los Angeles, February 16, 1969:

Question: Prabhupāda, you said that Kṛṣṇa has no limbs, no eyes, no form that we can comprehend. How then are we to understand the form of Kṛṣṇa that's given to us in the pictures and the mūrtis?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained. That you are to simply serve Him, then He will reveal. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa by your ascending process. You have to serve Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa will reveal to you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find in the Tenth Chapter.

teṣām evānukampārtham
aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā
(BG 10.11)

"Those who are always engaged in My service, just to show them a special favor," teṣām evānukampārtham, aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmi. "I vanquish all kinds of darkness of ignorance by the light of knowledge." So Kṛṣṇa is within you. And when you are sincerely searching after Kṛṣṇa by the devotional process, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find in Eighteenth Chapter, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). "One can understand Me simply by this devotional process." Bhaktyā. And what is bhakti? Bhakti is this: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Simply hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu. This is the beginning of bhakti. So if you simply hear sincerely and submissively, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will reveal to you.

One process is āroha-panthā, ascending process, and another process is descending process.
Lecture on BG 8.14-15 -- New York, November 16, 1966:

God is not easily available. It is very difficult. "But for a person who is constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," the Lord says Himself, "for him, I am easily available, easily available." So why don't you take up this process? There is another nice verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā that... Just, I forget. The purport is that a person, if he tries to understand by his sensual process... This is called sensual, āroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā means trying to ascend, trying to ascend. There are two kinds of ways to understand knowledge. One process is āroha-panthā, ascending process, and another process is descending process. Descending process. What is that āroha-panthā? Āroha-panthā means that "I shall understand what is God by my own knowledge. I don't care for any authority, any books. I'll understand, I'll meditate, I'll think, I'll philosophize, and I'll understand what is God." This is called āroha-panthā. And against this, there is avaroha-panthā. Avaroha-panthā means getting knowledge from the authority.

If anyone traverses on the path of ascending process with the velocity of mind and air... And if he makes progress not only for one day, two days, three days, one month—millions and millions of years, if he goes in that speed... Vāyu. Vāyu means air. By the airplane or sputnik, or by the speed of the mind, if he makes progress... And not very ordinary man, but muni-puṅgava. Muni-puṅgava means the highest thoughtful. Puṅgava means the greatest, and a muni means thoughtful, thinker. If he goes on for millions of years in the speed of mind and speed of air, still, he will find still not knowable, not knowable. Still the subject matter remains inconceivable, inconceivable, not definite.
Lecture on BG 8.14-15 -- New York, November 16, 1966:

There are two processes. Now, out of these two processes, the āroha-panthā, one who is trying to understand the Supreme by his own limited knowledge, for him, it is said in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo
vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām
so 'py asti yat prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.34)

Now, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ. By the ascending process, if anyone makes progress with the speed of mind and speed of air... You, you know the speed of mind, how it is powerful. You are sitting here, and you can think of thousands and thousands and thousands of miles away immediately. Just see the speed of mind. Similarly, the velocity of air is very thousands of miles in a second, velocity of air. So the example is given here that if anyone traverses on the path of ascending process with the velocity of mind and air... Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vat... And if he makes progress not only for one day, two days, three days, one month—koṭi-śata-vatsara, millions and millions of years, if he goes in that speed... Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manasaḥ (Bs. 5.34). Vāyu. Vāyu means air. By the airplane or sputnik, or by the speed of the mind, if he makes progress... Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām. And not very ordinary man, but muni-puṅgava. Muni-puṅgava means the highest thoughtful. Puṅgava means the greatest, and a muni means thoughtful, thinker. If he goes on for millions of years in the speed of mind and speed of air, still, he will find still not knowable, not knowable. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti yat prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). Still the subject matter remains inconceivable, inconceivable, not definite.

Vedic process is hearing, descending process.
Lecture on BG 9.15 -- New York, December 1, 1966:

Even in the warfield, you can hear from the authoritative source. So that was the process of acquiring knowledge, hearing. Hearing means receiving the knowledge, not manufacturing. There are two process of knowledge. There are some persons who think, "Oh, why shall I hear from him? Oh, I can think. I can speculate. I can manufacture something new of my own group." These are nonsense. This is not Vedic process. Vedic process is hearing, ascending process, er, not..., descending process. There are two processes of knowledge: ascending and descending. Ascending means trying to go high by your strength, and descending means the pure knowledge which comes from up, you receive it. Inductive and deductive process.

So ascending process is not recommended in the Vedic process of knowledge.
Lecture on BG 9.15 -- New York, December 1, 1966:

So ascending process is not recommended in the Vedic process of knowledge. Vedic way of receiving knowledge—by aural reception, by submissive aural reception from the spiritual master to the student. This is the way. It is coming. As we have read in the Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2): "In this way, traditionally, from the spiritual master to the student, this knowledge was imparted." The Lord said that "I imparted this knowledge first of all to the sun-god, and the sun-god imparted this knowledge to his son, Manu, and Manu imparted this knowledge to his son, Ikṣvāku." Ikṣvāku was the king of this planet. So from Ikṣvāku, this knowledge is coming down from the master, or from the father to the son, or from the master to the disciple. It is coming on. And because that disciplic succession was broken, therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking again that old system of knowledge to you, Arjuna, because you are My devotee, you are My dear friend." We have already studied this fact. So this is the way.

This process, you should give up. Jñāne prayāsam. Attempt to know the Supreme by ascending process. "Oh, I shall know. I'll manufacture my own way." This is the way going on nowadays.
Lecture on BG 9.15 -- New York, December 1, 1966:

Śravaṇam means hearing. Hearing is the first stage. And hearing is so powerful that simply by hearing from authoritative source, you can become completely perfect, simply by hearing. Submissive hearing, of course. Submissive. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. This is a verse from Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva. Don't be upstart. Don't try to understand the supreme knowledge, the Absolute Truth, by your strength. You are very poor. Your senses are imperfect. You cannot understand. This, this process, you should give up. Jñāne prayāsam. Attempt to know the Supreme by ascending process. "Oh, I shall know. I'll manufacture my own way." This is the way going on nowadays. Everyone is thinking that "Why shall I accept any authority? I shall think myself what I am and what is my duty." This is going on. But this is not the Vedic process. The Vedic process is to śravaṇam. So simply if we give up this foolish process of understanding the Absolute Truth by my own attempt, we, if we give up and we become submissive... Yes. Submissive means we must know our imperfectness.

So one should not adopt the means of ascending process.
Lecture on BG 9.15 -- New York, December 1, 1966:

So therefore our attempt to understand the Absolute Truth by our faulty senses and experience is futile. We must hear. Śravaṇam. That is the Vedic process. The student used to go to the master and gurukula. It was known as gurukula. Every brāhmaṇa, every self-realized soul, every vipra, or expert in the knowledge of Vedic literature, he would be provided with some brahmacārīs, group of brahmacārīs. They will follow the rules and regulation of brahmacārī life and live with the spiritual master, and the spiritual master will teach them, from Vedic literature, real knowledge. That is the process. This is called śravaṇam. So one should not adopt the means of ascending process. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya. Udapāsya means "Give it up." And namanta eva: "And be submissive." Namanta eva jīvanti san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. In this way, if one lives and hears, san-mukharitām, from the realized soul... Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa, from the perfect person, san-mukharitām. Kṛṣṇa or His representative. His representative is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is just like... Arjuna. Arjuna was made representative of Kṛṣṇa. How? Because Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si: "You are My devotee." So nobody can become representative of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without becoming His devotee. One who thinks that "I am God," he cannot become the representative of God. Suppose some of your representatives... You are a businessman.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

I want to understand the Absolute Truth by exercising my mental power—that is called ascending process or inductive process.
Lecture on SB 1.2.10 -- Bombay, December 28, 1972:

Our process is avaroha panthā, descending process, and the Māyāvādī philosopher's policy or system is ascending policy. I want to understand the Absolute Truth by exercising my mental power—that is called ascending process or inductive process. But our process is deductive process. We, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). We take it, we immediately take it, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We are not going to search out who is the Supreme. Because we are hearing from the Supreme, Kṛṣṇa, then our business is finished: "Here is the Supreme." So this is very natural.

Āroha-panthā means inductive process. To know from here, from the lower status to the higher status, speculative method, or ascending process.
Lecture on SB 1.5.14 -- New Vrindaban, June 18, 1969:

Prabhupāda:

tato 'nyathā kiñcana yad vivakṣataḥ
pṛthag dṛśas tat-kṛta-rūpa-nāmabhiḥ
na karhicit kvāpi ca duḥsthitā matir
labheta vātāhata-naur ivāspadam
(SB 1.5.14)

Now we are discussing instruction of Nārada to his disciple, Vyāsadeva. Such a learned scholar, Vyāsadeva. He's known as Vedavyāsa, the authority on all Vedic literature. And he's supposed to be incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, exalted position. Still, he requires the instruction of a spiritual master. That is the way of Vedic way. Avaroha-panthā, āroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā means inductive process. To know from here, from the lower status to the higher status, speculative method, or ascending process. And avaroha-panthā is deductive process, getting knowledge from higher authorities. So our Vedic understanding is to receive knowledge from the authorities. That is perfect knowledge.

The modern method is ascending process. The knowledge is there, but still, they are trying to understand it by āroha-panthā, ascending process.
Lecture on SB 1.16.12 -- Los Angeles, January 9, 1974:

The modern method is ascending process. The knowledge is there, but still, they are trying to understand it by āroha-panthā, ascending process. It is called inductive knowledge. Inductive knowledge means that... Suppose a man is mortal. So the so-called scientists, they are trying to discover the law, why man is mortal. They are studying, "This man is mortal, this man is mortal, this man is mortal. Therefore it is concluded that all men are mortal. Nobody is immortal." But another man will argue that "You have not studied all the human society. How you can conclude? Therefore we must study." So this study will go on for life after life. They will never come to a person who is immortal. But they will protest that "We cannot accept." But our process is deductive. We say that man is mortal, first of all. Therefore John is a man. He is also mortal. This is deductive process. First of all we accept, man is mortal. The inductive process is that "Why shall I accept man is mortal? I may not have seen a person who is immortal." So that argument can be given.

But we accept this Vedic knowledge, the first premises, accept, accepted.

Āroha-panthā means to know something by your dint of knowledge, ascending process.
Lecture on SB 2.1.1 -- Paris, June 9, 1974:

There are two ways: āroha-panthā, avaroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā means to know something by your dint of knowledge, ascending process, ascending process.

So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, or His abode by the speculative, ascending process.
Lecture on SB 2.1.1 -- Paris, June 9, 1974:

So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, or His abode by the speculative, ascending process. That is not possible. You have to inquire from. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "What is my duty now I am going to die?"

Generally, the Western philosophers, they try to understand the Absolute Truth by the ascending process.
Lecture on SB 3.25.31 -- Bombay, December 1, 1974:

So this Kapila, Devahūti, son of Devahūti Kapila, His sāṅkhya-yoga means bhakti-vitāna-yogam, how bhakti, devotional service to the Lord, is expanded. That is sāṅkhya-yoga. And how it is received, that is also stated here, tattva āmnāyaṁ yad pravadanti sāṅkhyam. Āmnāyam, by disciplic succession. No philosophical speculation, but as it is received by predecessor, by tradition, āmnāyam. Tattva āmnāyam. We cannot manufacture tattva. That is improper way of understanding the truth. Generally, the Western philosophers, they try to understand the Absolute Truth by the ascending process.

There are two processes of understanding the Absolute Truth. One is called ascending process, or inductive logic, and another process is descending process, or deductive logic.
Lecture on SB 3.25.31 -- Bombay, December 1, 1974:

There are two processes of understanding the Absolute Truth. One is called ascending process, or inductive logic, and another process is descending process, or deductive logic.

So ascending process is based on speculation, and descending process is based on fact.
Lecture on SB 3.25.31 -- Bombay, December 1, 1974:

So ascending process is based on speculation, and descending process is based on fact.

The impersonalists, by their ascending process they realize brahmajyoti and they think, "This is end."
Lecture on SB 6.1.32 -- Surat, December 16, 1970:

Govinda's bodily rays is brahmajyoti. The impersonalists, by their ascending process they realize brahmajyoti and they think, "This is end." No. You have to go further, further. Brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the," what is called, "reservoir, or the background of this brahmajyoti." Background. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore brahmajyoti is there. You'll find always in Kṛṣṇa's picture there is a auri. It is called auri?

Haṁsadūta: Aura.

Prabhupāda: Aura.

General Lectures

The knowledge coming from the supreme source, that is called avaroha-panthā, and the knowledge which is being sought after by using our imperfect senses, that is called āroha-panthā. Ascending process and descending process.
Lecture -- Montreal, June 26, 1968:

So either you call perfect knowledge or you call happiness, anything, what you call, if you want to know the ultimate goal of your life perfectly, you have to follow a different method. A different method. That method is called avaroha-panthā. There are... All methods of acquiring knowledge can be divided into two groups. One group is called āroha-panthā, or research, inductive process. And another method is called deductive process, or avaroha-panthā. The knowledge coming from the supreme source, that is called avaroha-panthā, and the knowledge which is being sought after by using our imperfect senses, that is called āroha-panthā. Ascending process and descending process.

So by ascending process, we can never come to the real knowledge.
Lecture -- Montreal, June 26, 1968:

So by ascending process, we can never come to the real knowledge. That is not possible, because our senses are imperfect. How we can ascend? Just like people are trying to ascend to the higher planetary system, but the instrument, sputnik itself, is imperfect. How you can go there? You can go 25,000 miles, again come back. Punar mūṣiko bhava. So this is going on. Because we are imperfect in every respect, so therefore we have to receive knowledge from the perfect. That is the process, real process.

"My position is like this. I have got so much bank balance," that is the way. This is the way of understanding. It is called descending process. And there is another process, which is called ascending process. I.
Address to Rotary Club -- Chandigarh, October 17, 1976:

"My dear Pārtha, Arjuna, in order to know Me, God, asaṁśayam, without any doubt, and samagram," means in completeness, "as you can know Me, I am personally speaking to you." That means if you want to know God, you can know Him when He explains Himself. Otherwise, you cannot speculate. God is unlimited, and your speculative power is limited. So you cannot understand God without the mercy of God. That is the verdict of the Vedic literature. It is very easy to understand. Suppose here is a big man, rich man, learned man. You want to know about him. So you cannot understand him by speculation: "He may be of this standard. He may be like this. He may have so much money." You suggest; another friend suggests. In this way the study of that particular man is not complete. But if the same person kindly speaks and explains about himself that "Sir, I am like this." (aside:) Water. "My position is like this. I have got so much bank balance," that is the way. This is the way of understanding. It is called descending process. And there is another process, which is called ascending process. In Sanskrit it is called āroha-panthā, avaroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā... You want to go, to know about the sun planet or any other. Just like they are trying. They are trying to go there, Mars planet, Moon planet, by rising on the sky by their aeroplanes, sputniks. But they have not been able to understand what is the position of these planets. This is called āroha-panthā. But if somebody comes from the planet and explains everything, then you know it very easily. Similarly, God has come to explain Himself. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Philosophy Discussions

Ascending process and descending process. So we say that descending process is perfect.
Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

Prabhupāda: What is that synthesis?

Śyāmasundara: The synthesis would be perhaps that man's body is mortal and he's immortal.

Prabhupāda: Perhaps. There is no certainty.

Śyāmasundara: Man's body is mortal and he's immortal.

Prabhupāda: What is this conclusion?

Śyāmasundara: I'm only using it as an example. You said that... You gave a proposal that man is immortal, that John is a man, therefore John is immortal. That's Aristotelian logic, Aristotle's logic.

Prabhupāda: That means his business is to defeat Aristotle's philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that that kind of reasoning is static, that it...

Prabhupāda: That means he... All right, there are two processes. One is inductive and one is deductive. This is deductive process.

Śyāmasundara: It's a syllogism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: It deals with the "isness" of something.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And there is another process, inductive. Now let us see whether man is mortal or immortal. So go and study. So there are two processes. We say in our Sanskrit language, avaroha panthā, āroha panthā, knowledge coming from up, and knowledge for trying to go up. Ascending process and descending process. So we say that descending process is perfect.

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Ascending process means trying to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of one's limited knowledge.
Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Yes, but so have all of the great teachers been concerned with consciousness. It's a question of whether or not it's achieved. I presume that's why you work at this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But thing is that there are two processes for understanding the Absolute Truth. One is ascending process, and one is descending process. We accept that descending process. Ascending process means trying to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of one's limited knowledge. Our knowledge... However I may be great, my senses are imperfect. You see? I cannot understand the sun, although I see every day sun, without understanding the sun as it is from authoritative books. Simply by seeing, by, simply by sense perception, we cannot understand. Now, this machine, simply by seeing, I cannot understand. But if I hear from authorities that "This is this; this is that," that understanding is right. Similarly, Absolute Truth cannot be understood by mental speculation, however a great thinker he may be. It must be understood from the authorities. So that... We follow that principle. We try to understand Absolute Truth from the lips of the Absolute Truth, not otherwise. That is the difference.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process.
Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this? Father, what is this?" And mother informs him, "My dear child, this is is. This is this." So he is acquiring knowledge by descending process. And if the child wants to get knowledge independently, that is not knowledge. He'll touch the fire. Mother: "Don't touch, don't touch, my dear child!" But he does not know. He's thinking the fire as something eatable.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

We have to receive knowledge from the perfect, not by ascending process, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, not like that. That will take long time.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: A child is imperfect, but because he gets the knowledge from the perfect father who knows what it is, when he speaks "a microphone," he speaks rightly. This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Or you get knowledge from Jesus Christ, that is also perfect, because source is perfect. I am taking knowledge from God and you are taking the knowledge from the son of God who has come directly from him, the same. So, but we have to receive knowledge from the perfect, not by ascending process, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, not like that. That will take long time. But if you actually want to be perfect, just approach the perfect, take knowledge from him and you become perfect. That is the injunction.

Correspondence

1970 Correspondence

George is still not convinced that there is not something beyond the form or body of Krishna. He is thinking that beyond Krishna there is an unmanifest God. These are all vague questions. I think by unmanifest God he means impersonal Brahman. This is quite natural for persons who try to understand God by their own endeavor. God cannot be understand by such ascending process of speculation.
Letter to Syamasundara -- Los Angeles 24 April, 1970:

I am glad to learn that George is chanting now Hare Krishna with you, and that will make him advanced. You write to say that George is still not convinced that there is not something beyond the form or body of Krishna. He is thinking that beyond Krishna there is an unmanifest God. These are all vague questions. I think by unmanifest God he means impersonal Brahman. This is quite natural for persons who try to understand God by their own endeavor.

God cannot be understand by such ascending process of speculation. You can give a common example how God cannot be understood by ascending process. Take for example that there was one Mr. John who was the great-grandfather of the great-grandfather of George. So if George wants to know about this Mr. John, his forefather, is it possible for him to know about Mr. John by speculation? He has to know about Mr. John by family history spoken by his father or grandfather. Similarly, God is the Supreme Father, so if anyone wants to know about God, he must try to understand Him through the history of creation. This is called Parampara system. This Bhagavad-gita is spoken by God Himself, and that is the best source of knowing about God. He cannot be known by our limited exercise of the senses. The difficulty of understanding God as person is that as soon as there is conception of person we think of God as a person like us. Therefore, in the Vedas, the personality of God is described in different ways which are distinct from our personalities.

Page Title:Ascending process of acquiring knowledge
Compiler:Serene, MadhuGopaldas, Labangalatika
Created:10 of Dec, 2008
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=2, CC=0, OB=9, Lec=27, Con=3, Let=1
No. of Quotes:42