Police sometimes harass us, and they become later on tired and do not do anything. (chuckles) Arresting, arresting, they become tired.
Desmond O'Grady: They become tired.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Desmond O'Grady: The system. The system gives up. That's a marvelous solution. Because I feel very tired with the system myself. So there's something wrong with the system as being. So maybe you can give me some advice how to beat the system. Because I assure you, here in Rome . . .
Prabhupāda: But you Irish people, you are never tired to fight. (laughter)
Desmond O'Grady: No. We've been fighting for three thousand years now.
Prabhupāda: I think the fighting is going on still.
Desmond O'Grady: Very much so. Very badly, very bad now, very bad. What do you do about that? And that's a serious question. Is it morally correct to be sitting here, for me to be sitting here . . .
Prabhupāda: You see, so long people will remain under the bodily concept of life that, "I am this body," "I am Irish," "I am English," "I am American," "I am Italian," so long this misconception will go on, fight will go on. You see? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu . . . (SB 10.84.13). There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like you cannot stop fighting between the dogs and cats. Why there is fighting? Because the dog is thinking, "I am dog"; the cat is thinking, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," it is the same thing. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," so if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," I am no better than the dog. So as we cannot stop the fighting between dogs, similarly, so long people will remain in bodily concept of life, the fighting cannot be stopped.
Desmond O'Grady: What was Mahatma Gandhi fighting in the House of Commons in England?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also another dogism. Because there is no difference. Just try to understand. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." Why? Because he has got the body of a dog. Similarly, if I am thinking, "I am Indian" because I have got the body in the Indian soil, where is the difference? There is no difference.
Desmond O'Grady: The Englishman thinks there's a difference.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. The bodily concept of life is animalism. When you think that, "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," then there is peace. Otherwise there cannot be any peace. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). In the Vedic literature it is described that persons who is in the bodily concept of life, he is exactly like the cow and the ass. That means animal. So people has to transcend this qualitative conception of existence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You will find this verse. (aside) Find out this verse:
- māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi-
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)