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Artificial (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: By artificial renouncing everything, they're actually simply another form of sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Not artificial. It is a process. We have to give up this sense gratification. Go through a process to trained up. Just like sometimes in the club there is artificial swimming. Is it not? Artificial swimming. That is not swimming. But to practice something.

Hṛdayānanda: Or the...

Dayānanda: But sometimes people who renounce like that, they become very proud. What is that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.

Jagad-guru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are you pleased when your disciples do things like that?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagad-guru: Are you pleased when your disciples do things like that...?

Prabhupāda: Artificial?

Jagad-guru: Well, such things as Sharma Prabhu's doing.

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What is that? What is his question?

Devotee (2): He asked if you're pleased if your disciples do things like Sharma, if they, like, go to live in trees and do artificial renunciation?

Prabhupāda: No, he's trying. That's all. But active service is more important.

Hṛdayānanda: Hm. That is your example.

Prabhupāda: But something is better than nothing. If he goes, goes away to practice somewhere else, better give him chance to practice this. He's not doing anything bad. That is good. That is... But the better service is to be active servant, servitor.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Lokanātha: In Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are mentioning that prostitute is needed in the society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for the rascals. Otherwise they will pollute the innocent girls. The innocent girls.... That is the policy of the Western civilization, that "Let the karmīs enjoy new, new girls and be energetic to produce machine." This is the European civilization, American civilization. Because the karmīs, unless they have sufficient sex intercourse, they cannot work, so this is the policy: "Let all the girls remain open." They.... "Let them use and produce atomic bomb. Show your brain." The.... Just like the marriage.... According to Vedic civilization, marriage is allowed to the karmīs. It is not that marriage allowed to the sannyāsī or brahmacārī. The karmīs require sex. Therefore.... Why marriage is allowed to the gṛhastha? Why not to the brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsī? Why it is not recommended? Because the karmīs require that enlivenment. Therefore they are allowed to marry. So in the European civilization it is only karmīs. There is no question of brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsa. There is no such idea. Therefore they want new, new girls. And that they have kept, this artificial law.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): Were they receptive to what you...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by Professor Kotovsky to talk. On my way to Europe I stayed there. So I have studied the people. They are very good, as our Indian people, innocent masses, they are also like that. But they are being sophisticated by their new philosophy, communism, artificial thing. But they are not happy. They are being forced to accept a philosophy. People are.... I have seen from their face. They look unhappy. Everything dependent on government. You have to accept. You cannot select your food even. Whatever nonsense things the government will supply, you have to accept, even you don't like it. And for us it was a great difficulty. We could not get rice, could not get flour, neither fruit. Only milk is available and flesh, as much as you like. So on the whole, it was artificial and people are not happy.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: She bought. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Yadubara: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the single elements alone in the body do not have life. The blood does not have life, the air does not have life, and so on. How would you prove that all of them combined together don't have life? How would you prove that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We do not find in the water, in the air, in the fire the five elements, you do not find there is life. So what is this, that life force? They are trying to prove that combination of this, there is life, but actually by analytical study we don't find life. The first example is this breathing. Everyone is under the impression that breathing is life. So when the breathing is stopped, the air is stopped. Just make some artificial way of breathing, bring life.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that blessing for them.

Jayādvaita: As soon as I have five dollars, I'm thinking that "Now I have five dollars. I can..."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayādvaita: I'm thinking, "Now I have five dollars. I can purchase something. What shall I buy?"

Prabhupāda: Why? If you don't require anything, why should you purchase? Don't create artificial demand. If you require to purchase something, then purchase. That is material civilization. "I don't require it; still I want it." Atyāhāra.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari śauri: Fifth Canto describes the whole material world is a forest.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Of enjoyment.

Lokanātha: Forest of enjoyment. (break)

Prabhupāda: They go in the village for begging little food, that's all. Just like you can live in this forest. And what you will eat? Two cāpāṭi. So you can go and beg. That's all. Whole day's business finished. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Lokanātha: It's too simple to understand.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Lokanātha: It's so simple, we cannot realize how simple it is.

Akṣayānanda: But if we tried to do that, wouldn't it be sort of artificial?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. (end)

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: They don't have artificial blood. I don't think they can make artificial blood.

Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me. So why do you say, "In future I shall do it"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of these creature don't even have hearts.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But you see. I take little medicine and wash hand. But you don't learn it. You remain the same. You have to.... (microphone moving) I show example, but you don't do it. What can I do?

Hari-śauri: We're learning.

Prabhupāda: I do not know how long you'll learn.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) It's like you said in Māyāpur. It's a little artificial for us. It's very.... It's not...

Prabhupāda: Cleanliness unknown to the Western people.

Hari-śauri: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Śaucam. Satya-śaucābhyām. Śaucam means cleanliness. The Western people, they do not know what is cleanliness. And therefore brāhmaṇa's another name is śuci, always clean. Three times' bathing, three times' changing cloth. It doesn't matter, loin cloth, but cloth must be changed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Outer cloth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: First World War, yes. That was futile. Again you have started United Nation. Where is the benefit? There cannot be benefit. If you keep the dogs as dog, you bring them, "You Australian dog, come here, and American dog, come here, and European dog, come here. Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? So if you keep the human society as cats and dogs, how can you expect peace? They must be human being. Then there will be peace. So this is the training how to make human being, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now these boys, they are also Europeans, Americans. They are coming from respectable, very educated.... They'll never ask for a chair. "Sit down. That's all." The necessities of life, artificial necessities, reduced, and time is saved for understanding the value of life. Without motorcar your life will not be spoiled. You can walk. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness your life is spoiled. So how.... We recommend that "First of all understand yourself." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is your prime business. And so far necessities of body, that can be done according to the circumstances. So if we simply waste our time for increasing unnecessary necessities of life and do not try to understand the value of life, then we remain animal.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise, what is the meaning of bhakti? It comes after.

Prabhupāda: Zero, they are śūnyavādī, zero, and nirviśeṣavādī. The same thing. But we are not śūnyavādī. Whole is not zero. The anxiety.... You cannot become anxiety-less. That is artificial. If you artificially become anxiety-less, then artificially you can remain anxiety-less for some time. Again you fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Falls down. But the anxiety should be purified. That is wanted. Not anxiety-less. You are living being. You cannot be anxiety.... That means you are dead. A living being has no anxiety—that means he is dead. That is not the ideal. The anxiety should be purified from material contamination, and it should be only for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect. Here the anxiety with some designation, "I am the father of this family," this is my anxiety, how to maintain them. "I am the leader of this nation." That is my anxiety. So all these anxieties are material, upādhi. I am neither father nor leader. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I have created artificial anxieties. So therefore I have to become free from this artificial anxiety. And nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. And when he is pure servant of Kṛṣṇa, he's always anxious how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the.... The anxiety is there, and now it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), completely fresh. And then with that senses, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktiḥ. This is bhakti. Mad-bhaktim labhate.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: With artificial four hands. You know that? (laughs) That is no (indistinct). This movement is actually the real movement to raise the human society. And if we create factions, then the movement will be less strong and will not act very (indistinct). (pause) Australian dollar question is solved with you? And this check can be deposited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think it will turn out OK.

Prabhupāda: But this dealing of the bank is very...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not good. I know. I complained to the bank manager also.

Prabhupāda: So this is right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They said their hands were tied because the specimen signature on the check...

Prabhupāda: They give me writing check.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Artificial, though.

Prabhupāda: So that is artificial way of.... Unless one is prepared to.... Just like why they are inducing persons to sacrifice their accumulated wealth for the state? Why? Communistic idea that everyone should be equal. So if somebody has more than others, they want to take it away. Just like in India this policy is now growing. So everyone should give away, but now it is being done by law, by force. But that will not stay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We also agree it's a failure.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is bound to fail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you voluntarily give, it will be failure. You will try to find out ways how you can take everything.... Just like income tax. The government is trying to take more money from the public, and public is hiding them in black market. This is going on. Nobody is.... Even your Nixon, he also hidden some money from the income tax. Why? He is the head of the government. So one side, he is head of the government, try to take money from the public, but he personally himself, he is hiding. Why this defect?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say that the system encourages man's greed, whereas their system...

Prabhupāda: No, no, system.... If the.... You cannot change the mind. If you have got mind to enjoy more, by force if I try to force you not to enjoy more, give to the state, this is a struggle. This is not perfect process.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then we shall see that you have surpassed the laws of.... The laws of nature is there must be water. Nature is supplying. And you are trying to imitate. But if you say that "We can overpass the nature's law," then you produce without water. Then you'll be able. Then we shall see that you have gone above.... This, you are following the nature's. That is not surpassed. That is following little properly. Now you have arranged for water. That's very good. But if nature pours water, then you save so much labor. Do you know that, how nature will supply water profusely? You haven't got to make artificial arrangement for water. Do you know that? Ask them. We know that.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Formerly their society was very much like the Vedic culture. There was the emperor and the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it was.... The Chinese people were coming, taking knowledge from.... Everyone was coming. So now argument that "If you are.... You are following the nature's way. Nature supply water. That is a fact. Here is cloud. Nature will supply. Now, if you want to surpass nature, then you produce in the factory, without water, food grains. Then we shall understand that you can surpass. As you are producing instruments and so many other motorcars and this, that, so many, in the factory, that's all right. In the factory you produce food grains without water. Then you have surpassed nature."

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And this "making" means not.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They are trying to make.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. The classes, two classes, are there. You cannot change that. "Trying," "making," means two.

Hari-śauri: It's artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like they let the students teach the teachers.

Prabhupāda: That's right. So the teachers.... Sometimes you become teacher; sometimes I become teacher. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to create a society where there are no superior-inferior.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Classless society.

Prabhupāda: They are taking themselves the superior position to make it one.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhāvallabha: They make it out of plastic.

Prabhupāda: Even plastic, they can cover big land like this?

Rādhāvallabha: Almost this big.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They cover football fields. They can cover big areas, but it's artificial. (break) ...flowers also.

Prabhupāda: You take. (break)

Rādhāvallabha: ...shopping centers, they also make plastic trees.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: In the big shopping centers they have plastic trees growing.

Prabhupāda: Grown?

Rādhāvallabha: They don't need any water.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't grow. (break) ...say, though, that "We don't want to enter into a religious, philosophical discussion. Simply we are trying to improve the standard of life."

Prabhupāda: What improvement you have done? What improvement you have done? I do not wish to die. Can you help me? Then what improvement?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: That there was something (indistinct), one picture (indistinct). There was competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is (indistinct) of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings (indistinct). That one painter he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. (indistinct). So that is real life. You may paint (indistinct) expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is (indistinct). It is (indistinct). So how the mother can see it? There is (indistinct) being killed. So it is not very easy to (indistinct) cover the mother, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is (indistinct). All (indistinct) in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Sinful. They do not know what is God, they do not know (indistinct) what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, (indistinct) the instruction of Christ, (indistinct) kill Him. Is that religion? And they are showing how He was killed.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like a child had..., has faith in his parents. So that is not an artificial thing, that is fact. And parents are trustworthy to the child. There is no doubt of..., by nature. So, similarly, why could..., you should be in trust in God? Why blindly? Why not trust with knowledge? And that is our movement. Every civilized person has got some faith in God. But now, they're advanced, they should understand what is God, why you must have faith in Him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It will decompose.

Rāmeśvara: So then everything, the church, everything.

Prabhupāda: Artificially.... Gundan camas kapalethabada-masa. (?) By artificial means you can keep a thing alive for six months. But what is destiny, that will go on all the time. Baḍa māsa. Baḍa māsa: "all the year."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like that girl's body.

Prabhupāda: Gundan camas kapalethabada...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one girl that had some disease, she was unconscious for how long? A year and a half?

Rāmeśvara: She was, practically speaking, dead, but by artificial means, they kept the heart pumping.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For one and a half years.

Rāmeśvara: And they thought that "If I pull out the electrical plug on this machine, then it will be murder." She was already dead, and the doctors fixed this machine to keep her heart.... Now they were afraid of pull out the plug.

Prabhupāda: Not dead. Not dead. Dead cannot be continued by electricity. That is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine. There was no food grains available, but black market it is available. Black market means more price, but they had no money. So to get this money, they enrolled as soldiers. This was Mr. Churchill's policy.

Rādhāvallabha: That's going on now in America. Previously they had to force men to join the Army because they had such a shortage. Now, because there are so few jobs, it is harder to get into the Army. Even volunteers, there are so many volunteers just to get a job that they have too many practically.

Prabhupāda: Even in Army there is no service? They don't want?

Rādhāvallabha: Now they want because they can't get a job.

Hṛdayānanda: More selective.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: ...point out material development of civilization is artificial. It is not meant for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is patchwork.

Prabhupāda: India has been frustrated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you mention in the First Canto how it was predicted that certain different peoples, they would conquer India. This was predicted in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So these troubles they were foreseeing?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The troubles that India is going through today, they were foreseeing over five thousand years ago, that the Muslims would invade, the Turks?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Englishman would invade. That is also...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Greeks.

Prabhupāda: In the Twelfth Canto.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is your ignorance. But the beginning is dharma-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. Two parties, they, actually, the two parties... Pāṇḍavas māmakaḥ caiva kim akurvata. Every word is significant. Fighting can be executed even in dharma-kṣetre. That they cannot understand. Gandhi misunderstood. If it is dharma-kṣetre, how there can be fighting? He wanted to prove nonviolence artificially. How it is possible? Kṛṣṇa is instigating him to fight, and how can you make it nonviolent? That is artificial. And if you want to explain something artificially, how long you'll do it, it will be failure. So Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence and reading of Bhagavad-gītā went with him. Nobody is interested in that kind of explanation. And we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it is increasing. It is increasing. There is no artificial way.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Four windows on the up.

Prabhupāda: Ventilation.

Kīrtanānanda: Ventilation?

Prabhupāda: No ventilation.

Kīrtanānanda: There will be artificial ventilation, fan.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Natural ventilation is prohibited. (laughs)

Kīrtanānanda: No, these windows can open, air that way.

Prabhupāda: Nice veranda. This will be open like this?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These are rooms?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, these will be servants' quarters on this side.

Prabhupāda: This will be window?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. This will be a kitchen.

Prabhupāda: Nice, very nice. And there will be garden here?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Kṛṣṇa paints them with thought.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"—what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividaiva śrūyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comforts, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore given a simple formula-chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we don't say that fighting will stop. We are distinguishing demons and rogues, uh, demigods. If you fight, demon, I must defend myself. What can I do? If you start war, you are demon, shall I stop: "No, no, I am demigod, I'll not fight. You kill me"? Is that intelligent? I'll have to fight. But the war starts by the implication of the demons. The Kurukṣetra war, it was not started by Arjuna. It was started by Duryodhana. (long pause) All right, go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

kāmam āśritya duṣpūram
dambha-māna-madānvitāḥ
mohād gṛhītvāsad-grāhān
pravartante 'śuci-vratāḥ

"The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent." Purport. "The demoniac mentality is described here. The demons' lust is never satiated. They will go on increasing and increasing their insatiable desires for material enjoyment. Although they are always full of anxieties on account of accepting nonpermanent things, they still continue to engage in such activities out of illusion. They have no knowledge and cannot tell that they are heading the wrong way. Accepting nonpermanent things, such demoniac people create their own God, create their own hymns, and chant accordingly. The result is that they become more and more attracted to two things—sex enjoyment and accumulation of material wealth. The word aśuci-vratāḥ, 'unclean vow,' is very significant in this connection. Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women, gambling and meat-eating; those are their aśuci, unclean habits. Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions. Although such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, still, by artificial means, the world creates a false honor for them. Although they are gliding toward hell, they consider themselves very much advanced."

Prabhupāda: There are so many religious systems: "Yes, you can do whatever you like, you can eat whatever you like," and still it is religion. This is demoniac. That will be explained further. Huh? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). No, not in the beginning.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...

Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He could not avoid death.

Prabhupāda: If there was no germs, how he died? So at last he said?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He said something to the effect that "I don't know what this life was about. I think I've made a mistake." Just at the end.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it was mistake.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Everyone is envious of such persons, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They think that "Yes, he could not enjoy his wealth, but if I had that wealth I would enjoy it." But then if they get it, then they also fail.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Next, what is next?

Hari-śauri: Half past eight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Should we take your leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection to sit down here. If you want to stop, we can stop, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.

Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.

Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior. (end)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another part of this same question: if the harijanas, who constitute a sizable population amongst the Hindus, are made to feel that their very religion...

Prabhupāda: These are all artificial. The harijana word was used by Gandhi unnecessarily for a class of men who are not fit for the position. Harijana means "the men of Hari." Just like Nārada. Nārada is called harijana. Great devotee is called harijana, "the persons related with Hari." But if you select some bhangis and camaras and keep them as he is and rubberstamp it, "Here is a harijana," what will be the effect? There is no harm to pick up a low class man and to elevate him to the position of harijana. There is no impediment. You can do. But if you keep him a low class man and if you stamp him harijana, then what will be benefit? Just like we are initiating selected men. "Are you ready to follow these rules and regulation? When he says, then "Come on. Become harijana." Not that "I'll keep myself in that same abominable condition of life and I shall become harijana." So this "harijana" word has come from Gandhi. He did not try to make him real harijana. He simply rubberstamped him. So what is the value of this harijana?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Māyāvādīs, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is to remain, to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there. God and the part and parcel. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christians and the Muslims. Because both of them will die. (chuckles) And they are engaged in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism" will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question 21. "Are changes visible in Hinduism in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship as a result of Hinduism's contact with the West?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavati-bhāryaṁ dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the Viṣṇu paramaṁ padam. Viṣṇor aradhanaṁ param. The worship of Viṣṇu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Viṣṇu. And that is Vaiṣṇavism. So Vaiṣṇavism means for everyone or sanātana dharma. That I have already explained. The human.... The living entity is sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). He is sanātana. God is sanātana. The exchange between God and the living entity is called sanātana-dharma or Vaiṣṇavism. So we are teaching that. We are not teaching Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. We are teaching how to love God. That's all. There is no question of proselytization. It is the natural. We are, by nature we are lover of God. Just like father and son. The love is already there. It cannot be extinguished. The father and son may be separated for many, many years, but when they come together the affection immediately revives. So we are teaching that, that we have got eternal relationship with God and revive it. We are embarassed by establishing artificial relationship with my family, country, and society, and so-called religions. These are all artificial. Real relationship, that "God is great and I am His servant," that is real religion. So we are teaching that thing.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the teaching is the same in India as it is in the Western countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being proved. Otherwise how they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa all over the world?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This question here is "In doctrinal content and mode of individual and collective worship..." Is that to say that in your preaching in the Western countries and your preaching in India, you haven't attempted... In the Western countries where there is so many mlecchas, outcastes, so to speak.

Prabhupāda: That is accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Even one is mleccha. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). So there is no question. That is artificial. One is mleccha or one is brāhmaṇa, but that is artificial. That is skin. But within the skin of the mleccha or the brāhmaṇa the same spirit soul is there. Therefore those who are paṇḍita, those who are learned,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

One who is actually learned, he sees the same spirit soul within the brāhmaṇa, within the mleccha, within the cat. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So let them inspect. What is the wrong there? It should be open. If the inspection, there is nothing wrong, then they can do this business.

Hari-śauri: Generally, though, their inspection is when the animal is alive, they check to see that he has no disease. Then they can be killed. But if an animal dies naturally, then generally it is to be supposed that it dies from some malfunction within the body, that there may be some diseases or whatever. So then...

Prabhupāda: That is artificial.

Hari-śauri: But that is their rules and regulations they have.

Prabhupāda: They'll change. When they, by chemical analysis, they don't find any fault, then they can change. From economic point of view, why this body should be wasted? Let it be utilized. Those that are eating, let them eat. And economic point of view, we save the skin. We require it for our purpose. That is the agreement. After all, we require the skin for our khol making.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: For the farm straps?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Shoes, slippers, so many things. I think Kīrtanānanda Swami has done that with some of the cows. They have taken the hide for making things, straps.

Hari-śauri: They're not doing it now, though.

Prabhupāda: But we should not do it ourselves.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the ideas are running out. That's why now they are doing on the biological sciences mainly.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is another nonsense. Why they are checking the flow?

Vipina: The water is too rough for the boats to travel, so they made this artificial canal so boats could travel without getting wrecked, and they could transport their items of sense gratification in that way. They used to have mules that pulled the boats with ropes alongside here, these pathways, pulled them through the canal.

Prabhupāda: It will grow mosquitoes, mosquito plant.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mosquitoes. When the devotees came back from India, many got malaria, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I think we got to do something next year.

Prabhupāda: Get a mosquito curtain. That's all. Get a mosquito curtain. In India everywhere there is mosquito. I think in your country also.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Manmade.

Rūpānuga: Yes, a manmade idea.

Hari-śauri: How does that fit in with the species of life, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when they combine two different species, artificial?

Prabhupāda: You can make, by arrangement, artificial, cross-breeding.

Hari-śauri: But that cannot be counted as one of the 8,400,000 forms. I was thinking last night when we were coming down this road that it's very nice and smooth, but then I thought you were saying the other morning that in the heavenly planets they are made from coral and so many different things. Here we're using tarmac.

Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.

Rūpānuga: We can't even imagine it now.

Hari-śauri: What to speak of the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Just suppose here are stones, there are pearls. You cannot imagine.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So what is progress? In India still, in so fallen condition, we have got practical experience. If there is some arrangement... Sometimes we arrange Hare Kṛṣṇa festival. Each day not less than twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people come. Although these, mostly these foreigners, they are chanting, and we are speaking in English, still, to hear the kīrtana, they come from remote villages. In Calcutta I have seen. That is natural tendency of Indians. Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in India, naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means, they are being suppressed. Just like this Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have questioned that... What they have said?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They said that there are many thinkers in India who consider that the Hinduism is fatalistic, and therefore it doesn't encourage people to make material progress.

Prabhupāda: That economic development. Our ācāryas, practically in Indian civilization, there are so many books of knowledge, but there is no recommendation for starting big, big factories for economic development. You'll find Vyāsadeva has written so many books, each book so valuable, instructive, but still he was condemned. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), he dealt with these four subject matter, but not bhakti. Therefore Nārada Muni chastised him, that "You have wasted your time, simply writing on the subject matter of dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, catur varga." Then, under his instruction, he wrote Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam simply on the glories of the Supreme Lord, without any attempt to write anything about dharma artha kāma mokṣa. In the beginning he introduces, gives introduction to his book, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra śrīmad-bhāgavate (SB 1.1.2), in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, they are all kaitavas, cheating. These things are thrown away. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2).

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Utilizer. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Extracts.

Rūpānuga: Extracts from.

Prabhupāda: Extracts.

Rūpānuga: Suppose like now, just like this Vedic injunction against artificial fertilizers in the soil, suppose, as modern farmers are doing, they use this artificial fertilizer and the soil becomes depleted in minerals.

Prabhupāda: That means artificial is the same principle. You are living entity; by artificial fertilizer you are exacting something from the earth, the same principle.

Rūpānuga: Now suppose we take so many chemicals from the earth and they may become a little depleted. Can those chemicals be replaced by the earth itself as the ongoing process of nature?

Prabhupāda: Everything is coming from the earth.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is..., Sadāpūta has an interesting point in science itself, that somebody tried to show that in the living body, when life is within matter, the ah, it doesn't follow the conservation of matter. Science, one of the basic principles of science is that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. All the living conditions are there in the matter, provided there is the living being, that's all. Just like a dead body, it is not that the living condition is finished, no. The living conditions are there. That particular soul has left that body. But the dead body is also full of ingredients of living condition. So many germs are coming out when the body is decomposed. You say decomposition, but even in that decomposed condition there is living condition. So the living conditions are already there, matter in any form. So how these rascals say there is no life in the moon planet? That is not possible. The living conditions are always there in the matter. This is the example. Now, a decomposed body, the living being has left, now it is dead matter, but still, the living beings are coming out. How it is? That means matter has always the potency to give shelter to the living entity. So it is impossible that there is no living being in the moon planet. It is bogus. We cannot accept it. Any condition there is provision for the living beings. We see actually, in the earth, in the air, in the water, in the fire, these five elements. Whatever you take, these five elements in different proportions. So the living..., just like from perspiration living entities come out. It is impossible there is no living entities. That is bogus complete. You can challenge like that.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: In ecstasy one can do anything, that is another... But artificially to do something is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if one feels like jumping, it is all right?

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial is not required.

Rūpānuga: So running back and forth is not...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that should not be an artificial.

Hari-śauri: We don't dance for show, we dance for the pleasure of the Deities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not professional dancers. "The service has become so frenetic that the almost folksy, matter of fact preaching of the Swami makes a stark contrast. 'Some people are against us because they say we teach children to smile. Well isn't that too bad. We make children smile—we are bad. We try to teach them that life should be a joyful thing, we're evil. Well that's too bad, isn't it? ' "

Devotees: Who's that? That's crazy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is theory.(?) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So he has not returned with the key?

Hari-śauri: Who? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Still more?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means yes, exchange of love between God and the individual soul.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This becomes awaking of the spiritual platform. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is gradually to purify one, because that natural loving propensity is there. Our contention, and practically we are experiencing it, is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is natural way of life. It's not artificial imposition. Rather in this present materialistic way of life, so many artificial standards and impositions have been put upon us. We can see that because culture is always changing. One year this is right to do, the next year that's right. Everything is simply mental concoction. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is eternal, it's never changed. We have history from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. For millions and millions of years people have been engaged in the very same process that we're following: of chanting the holy names, worshiping the Deity in the temple, taking prasādam, association with saintly persons. The very same process, it hasn't changed. And the very same sentiment of love of God is being awakened naturally. So our contention is that the love is simply misdirected. It simply has to be redirected towards Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, he does this. He takes our energy, our love, our intelligence, our everything and directs it towards Kṛṣṇa. And as a result, you become purified. A very natural process. Just like we have a propensity to love so rather than waste our love on the temporary forms of the material world, because they're all perishable. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). First of all we love the body, deha. And apatya, we love the family members, the sons, kalatra, we love our wife, ādiṣu we like our community, nation, so many things. But all of these things, they're temporary. They won't last, they can't endure. So all of our love practically is being wasted. It's stolen.

Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: This unemployment is to their discredit. In the karmis' society the unemployment is a great discredit, now people sitting idle.

Prabhupāda: There will be great catastrophe. The unemployment will increase, and people will be very dissatisfied with the.... Especially the black. They will create havoc. This is artificial. They are increasing the production of tire tube and lid. So who will purchase? Nobody lives in the tire tube. Therefore unemployment. So therefore reduce production. You cannot go on increasing. You very much trade this tire tube and so many artificial.... It is very artificial civilization. If you produce.... (break) Here so far milk and food grains are concerned, whatever sumptuously you want to eat, eat. Balance you can keep stock. The milk can be converted into ghee, then keep stock, and the grains can be stocked. Whenever you like, you just grind the grains and have to eat, halava.

Bhagavān: It's very ecstatic.

Prabhupāda: If you have got excess, you can distribute free prasadam. "Come on." You make friends.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: It's his nature.

Prabhupāda: No, he has to live in that way. That is his destiny. You cannot change it by artificial ways. Even if he has got all the facilities, he will have to live like that. That is nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is... So therefore there is no use of so-called improvement. And you cannot do it. This is a fact. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Find out this verse. Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary. Your standard of happiness and distress must be there because you are destined by the laws of nature. You have to suffer although you are born in America. In New York you can get very comfortable life there; still, you have lie down on the bench, lie down. Although you are born of a rich man's family, you have to become hippies, lie down here. Who can check this? What is that law. Do they know it? But there is a law. There will be a first class, second class, third class, fourth class. You cannot check it. Huh? New York City? So cared for? Nasty road, streets. And always, every moment-dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung, gu gu gu gu gu gu gu-fire. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Fire is blazing. Despite all arrangement, fire is blazing. How can you stop it? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibaniśi hiya jvale. The blazing fire of poison is always going on. Taribāre nā kāinu upāya. And one has to make ways how to get out of this fire. That is intelligence.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: The whole country could be like this if everybody was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Very peacefully you can live. In the city you go, thousands of cars are running-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror. What is called? Flyway, expressway, downway, every ten yards stop for the light. (laughter) How artificial life. And with all these things, if people would have been happy, all right. But they're not happy, in spite of all this advancement.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Simply increasing their miseries.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Problems.

Hari-śauri: The bigger the buildings, the more anxiety they're in.

Prabhupāda: Not only many cars, they construct new roads, new... Increasing business, in the hope of happiness. But there is no happiness.

Hari-śauri: Happiness is the last consideration.

Prabhupāda: They are thinking that "In this way we shall be happy."

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: They are spending so much money for entertainment in material life, but no one is becoming enlivened. But this kind of discussion is so fresh. For a show they pay five dollars, to go to one movie for one hour, two hours.

Prabhupāda: That is another artificial agitation of the mind. It has, there is no practical benefit. Just see how many varieties of flowers, colorful. Can they make such colorful? "Yes, we're trying to overcome nature. Wait millions of years." And what about not? "Now you sleep." (laughter) These rascals are misleading other rascals. And they are, "Oh, a scientist!" Very misleading civilization. We shall appreciate in every flower the craftsmanship of Kṛṣṇa, how He has done nicely. Unnecessarily puffed up by so-called advancement of knowledge, misleading themselves and misleading others. Who is that old man comes? Some old man?

Bhagavān: He's a life member from Belgium.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He has come from Belgium? In the last German war, the first attempt of attack was on Belgium. And within few hours, Belgium finished, conquered.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That means shameless. They are being chastised at every step, and they don't think it is chastisement. They are shameless fools.

Nava-yauvana: And also they blame God. They say God is unjust. Then they say God is unjust.

Prabhupāda: And when they are chastised, then God is unjust. This is their position. You cannot deny the proprietorship of God. That is not possible. If you misuse it, then you'll be chastised. You'll be chastised. Even in that park, the park is owned by the government. You cannot pluck any flower without the permission. You can use it. You can go there and sit there, enjoy it, but if it is prohibited that nobody can pluck flower, if you do it, then it is criminal. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God, so you can utilize it, God's favor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, according to His instruction. Suppose there are many persons coming in the park. You cannot prohibit anyone to come into the park. As you have entered, "Yes." But you have made laws like that. What is this immigration? Artificial prohibition. Everything is God's property. Anyone can go anywhere. Why you have made this immigration department, "Don't come here"?

Jñānagamya: They say it is to protect the people who are here.

Prabhupāda: Then why you came here? The Americans, why they went to America and killed the Indians? And now they have become proprietor, "Don't come here."

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's right, impractical.

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? You don't accept father, where is the question of brotherhood? If there is father and we are sons, we are brothers. If there is no father, then where is the question of brotherhood?

Hari-śauri: Even the Communists are fighting amongst themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, unless you accept the father, where is the question of brother? Artificial brotherhood.

Nava-yauvana: Just look at the United Nations, how they are brothers.

Prabhupāda: You think they're united? They are all dogs barking, that's all. I said in the public. Some dogs are brought together and they are barking. That's all. Where is the unity? That is the fact. If you bring some dogs on this quarter and ask them, "Please live peacefully," will they do that? Why they cannot do it? You bring some dogs, neighborhood, and ask them, "Don't bark, live together peacefully." Will they be able to do that? What do you think?

Dayānanda: No, it is their nature.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. Their advancement of knowledge is so poor, that if the chemicals of the semina and ovum, by mixture, life can be generated, so why you wait for such accident? You can combine such chemicals. Why you are waiting for the accident or chance meeting? You can produce. That they cannot. Then how it is accident? Just like nowadays the ox, bull's semina is injected in the cow, artificial semination?

Jñānagamya: Yes, for cows they do that.

Prabhupāda: But that semina is taken from a bull. Why not chemically prepare and inject?

Jñānagamya: Also for humans sometimes, humans also.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have to take from another living being. Why not prepare the chemicals? Then postdated check: "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." The same rascaldom. And who is preparing that chemical? You have to wait for millions of years, who is preparing that chemical now?

Nava-yauvana: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: What is your answer? Who is preparing now the chemicals? You are, just like you are trying to prepare some chemical, so the chemical is already there. So somebody has prepared, you have to accept, huh? Why not?

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But you cannot create such lust.

Harikeśa: Oh, yes, I create it all the time.

Prabhupāda: Then why there is no life?

Jñānagamya: If I am a lusty scientist then I can be lusty with a woman or I can be lusty with the test tubes and the chemicals. The lust is there, so why is there no artificial semina? The same lust is there. Desire for profit, adoration, distinction is there. So they are a failure.

Harikeśa: Our proposition is nothing like this, our proposition is that lust is the creation of everything.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I charge.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we put you in a room with a lot of lust and you create a baby.

Harikeśa: No, that will happen automatically, you just, the ingredients come together automatically.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate rascals. Not only rascal, but obstinate rascal. Their only remedy is shoe. That's all. Obstinacy. There is a story about obstinacy. Two friends were talking. One friend said, "This is cut by a scissor." So another friend says, "No, it is cut by the knife." So then there was fight. So the friend who was talking of the knife, he was strong enough. So he captured him: "You accept it is scissor, otherwise I'll throw you in the water." So other, "No, it is scissor," so he threw him in the water. So when he was dying, he was doing like this. (Prabhupāda makes a hand motion like scissor) (laughter) So he is obstinate rascal. It is as good as that garden here. Rather, here there is no disturbance of outsiders, and there there are so many disturbances. It is better. Our theory is... Not theory, fact-daiva-netreṇa. These things are arranged by superior management.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: You said on account of this toothpaste... Your teeth were so rotten they want to fall out, but the toothpaste won't allow them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually my teeth have gone all bad. It is useless. But on account of this toothpaste it is still working. (laughs) Otherwise, according to dental science, it has to be extracted. It is no other remedy. If you go to a dentist, immediately he will say, "Extract all this and have a new set, artificial." That is, I know that. But I don't want to extract. As far as possible, use them and let them fall out automatically, as they have already fallen out so many. Fifty percent already fallen out, and twenty-five percent are shaking, and still I am eating. Otherwise, according to the dental science, I should not eat any salt. In Bengal there is a word that when teeth is rot, then your eating is gone. You cannot digest, you cannot eat. It is not... If the foodstuff is not properly chewed, it causes digestive disturbance. And digestive disturbance means so many diseases. This coughing is due to digestive disturbance. I know that.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) in favor of vegetarians. We are fools raising fodder and this thing and again raising animals on that and feeding on that. Why can't we directly feed on poor animals? I think the human race will survive more that way than by eating animals, but economically it is more sound.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Kṛṣṇa never said māṁsād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said. This is artificial. In the lower stage of human civilization when they cannot produce food they do not know how to do it, so the animals are killed. What can they do? But actual food is anna, food grains. Even for the animals. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Yajñād bhavati bhū... So there is no yajña. There is no yajña. So this saṅkīrtana-yajña is the only yajña in Kali-yuga. So if they perform, everything is all right. There will be cloud, there will be rain.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to... (to devotee:) Land, what is that land? You can give the description.

Devotee: It is near (indistinct) village. It has not yet been confirmed, it is under procedure, but we are trying to develop a big project there, depending on formal procedures...

Prabhupāda: Our project is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come here, live peacefully, keep your body fit, and work for yourself, you produce your own food, you produce your own cloth, don't be very much anxious for artificial necessities, and save time, and be advanced in spiritual life.

Interviewer (3): Some sort of religious epithet.

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly religious. You have taken by it because we misunderstand the meaning of religion. Religion generally understood as a kind of cult and faith. But in the Vedic literature, religion means the characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet, that is its religion. If sugar becomes pungent, that is not sugar's characteristic. Similarly, a human being must be God conscious. So that God consciousness is religion. Because in the human form of life one can understand what is God, and if he does not become, he remains an animal. Animal cannot understand. So therefore his business is how to athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is not our manufactured word, this is the Vedānta words. Atha, now we have got this human form body, based on that transmigration of the soul after millions and millions of years, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), you have got this human form of life, now it is your business to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This is the business of human life. And āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life and how to defend, that is animal business. If you remain busy with these four principles of bodily necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, then you remain on he animal platform. Beyond that, when you inquire about God, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we are trying to raise him from this animal life to human life. This is our business.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: If the soul was once a gentleman...

Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal.

Indian man: Ah. This who took the birth of this human being or animal was a gentleman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is gentleman by nature. But criminal by artificial means. As soon as...

Indian man: But even if you attain mokṣa is that eternal or just temporary and the until becomes lost, and then...

Prabhupāda: Mokṣa, there are two kinds of mokṣa. One, generally, they like that, to remain in impersonal Brahman.

Indian man: For a limited period.

Prabhupāda: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to, trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again. Similarly, you are living entity, you want enjoyment. So what enjoyment you will have in the sky? You require society, friends, love, everything. So these impersonalists, their mokṣa is temporary because they think by merging into the impersonal Brahman I shall be happy. But that he cannot. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Although they go to the impersonal Brahman, but there is no ānanda. The living entity is seeking after ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. By nature he is seeking ānanda. So you do not get any ānanda.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Kṛṣṇa? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? They haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become a Kṛṣṇa bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Kṛṣṇa, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Kṛṣṇa. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Kṛṣṇa bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used.

Prabhupāda: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Kṛṣṇa's money should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's mission, so Kṛṣṇa's mission is this, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have to bring them to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. Then the mission is there. That is Kṛṣṇa also. Kṛṣṇa says,

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ
yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ
namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā
nitya-yuktā upāsate
(BG 9.14)

You have to teach them like that. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām. As we are doing. We're always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if you manufacture in your own way, that you can do. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). That will never be successful. If you have to execute the mission of Kṛṣṇa, you have to take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and do it rigidly. Then you'll be successful. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's mission is that one must know Kṛṣṇa and surrender to Him. This is mission. Kṛṣṇa does not say that by karma-yoga one can understand Him. Kṛṣṇa says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You cannot say "We are karma-yogīs." Karma-yogī means the third-class. He's karmī and little mixed up with bhakti. Adulterated. Jñāna-yogī, he's not a bhakta. He's jñānī, but just to bring him gradually, a little bhakti. You see? And real bhakti is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). When it will be tintless of any karma and jñāna, then it is pure bhakti. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Not mixed up with jñāna, karma, yoga. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). He could have said, "Any way," as these rascals say, "Any way go, you will get Kṛṣṇa." That Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). So that tattva, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). So we have to take this. You manufacture in your own way, and still you carry out the mission of Kṛṣṇa. That is contradiction. You have to take the lesson from Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. Karma-yoga is for the third-class. They are addicted to karma, a little bhakti, that's all. That is not pure. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). When there is not a tinge of karma and jñāna, that is pure bhakti. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. So everything is there, direction is there. We can guide you, not according to our whims, but according to śāstra. And if you agree to accept, then we can also cooperate with you. But if you manufacture your own way, then how we can possibly... Kṛṣṇa's mission is this: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Except kṛṣṇa-bhakti, bhaktyā, everything is glāniḥ. All glāniḥ. And that can be awakened, kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Just like these boys are doing. That is enunciated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta-nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa—everyone has kṛṣṇa-bhakti. You have to awaken simply. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya (Cc. madhya 22.107). It is not artificial.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.

Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs that I have trained them and they are dancing. So there are so many things to be done in India but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.

Krishna Modi: Quite. Now let us, we must be active. We must be active.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for the country, for the whole nation.

Krishna Modi: And we will come Vṛndāvana also.

Prabhupāda: Please come. I am there for three weeks.

Krishna Modi: How many rupees per day for three days?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have about a thirty-room guest house in Vṛndāvana.

Paramahaṁsa: You bring eighty persons with you, make nice arrangements.

Prabhupāda: If you want sir, that is charge. We charge.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I have seen, Gandhi wanted to organize a program, village (break) ...in the field, that this program for constructing toilet in the village, they have spent so much. You know that? The first business was toilet. To restrict them to pass stool here and there, they must have. Now in constructing that toilet paraphernalia, (indistinct), they... Therefore it failed, village organization. Not for that purpose. There were many purpose. Because they had no engagement, so why they should remain in the village? There are so many attraction in the city, and they get money. The factory-wallas, they're inviting, "Come here. You shall get twenty rupees per day." Why shall he remain in the village? So if you can organize in the villages, they are interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and getting nice prasādam, then... One must have some attachment. In the city there are so many artificial attachments. So on what ground they'll remain in the village? Mind, always remember this. Unless you have got some attachment, there is no possibility. Gandhi's program was very nice, village organize so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village. But where is that satisfaction? That is the failure.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Lokanātha: Just a propaganda.

Prabhupāda: No, they're thinking that so many people are coming to the cities, how we shall provide them? That's a problem. After all government has to supply them rations. Where is so much foodstuff? And if they are not supplied, then there will be resentment. That's a fact. What they are doing in the city, so many scooter (makes motor sound), going here and there. Actually no engagement. The girls are loitering in the street by dressing. It will become more and more problems, city life. So this is the solution, that they must go back to the village. But they are trained up to enjoy the facilities, so-called facilities, of the city. They are not going to village. But if we can introduce this hari-saṅkīrtana, and if they have little taste, that is success. It's a great program. And that taste will come-ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If he simply becomes little sober that "I want to eat, I have to sleep, I want some sense enjoyment and defense. So if I can get easily in the village, why shall I go three hundred miles away? Just keep in mind the psychology. So that simple life will be possible if one is bhakta. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Only by devotion. Not by otherwise. Not by artificial means, by manufacturing toilet. Only bhakti. If they get little attachment for Kṛṣṇa the questions will be solved automatically. And they will be happy. Undoubtedly. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's first instruction. Ceto-darpaṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they cannot explain, brainwash, mind control, charismatic, like that they use.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, he says that here, because of their own ignorance then they find fault. He goes on: "From this misunderstanding came fear then hatred and from hatred grew injustices and often atrocities. An injustice is now being perpetrated through ignorance. Are atrocities far off? This may sound like an overstatement, but for those who say, 'It can't happen here,' it already has, such as to the American Indians and to our people (of) Japanese descendant. The time to stop such action is at the beginning, now. The way to stop it is to replace ignorance with knowledge, and hatred with understanding. Sometimes people stand off at a distance and look at another person's belief and laugh at them or fear them. But as they get closer, they may come to understand how similar the observer's beliefs may be to their own beliefs. As a scientist, a psychologist, I have tried to learn about and understand the Hare Kṛṣṇa people. For nearly a year I have spent hours each week, talking with, reading about, and testing members of the movement. I have been to their temples in this country and in Europe. I have eaten in their homes and I have been to their children's schools. What I have found is a group of people trying to find God and live as closely to the way that He would like them to live. There is no place in their lives for immorality, for cruelty to other people or animals, for artificial stimulants or harmful chemicals such as alcohol, drugs, or tobacco. At first glance their approach to God may seem alien to us with their different dress, the incense, and the many statues and their unique ceremonies, but a closer look reveals similarities to our religious practices that are just the same. In Catholicism we find the holy water, chanting on the rosary, statues of saints and incense. And in Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar."

Prabhupāda: And they say, the cow's urine, they are forcing to eat. (laughter) (Bengali) ...that they are forcing the devotees to drink cow's urine. (laughter) These are the charges: brainwash, mind control, forcing cow's urine to drink. (laughter) How clever they are to find out some fictitious faults.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Artificial dependence.

Jagadīśa: ...artificial dependence, yeah. So this is...

Prabhupāda: They say that there is a tissue in the brain, they disturb with this religious idea. They say like that. And if that tissue is operated then there will be no more religion. They can do that. With a brain operation he'll forget willfully. These rascal, so-called scientists, they can do anything.

Jagadīśa: There are some psychiatrists who are on our side though. So if we can rally their support... The whole thing is so emotional and based on this strong appeal by the scientists and leaders to avoid religion because of the distraction from sense gratification, that all of the charges against us are completely baseless. There's no foundation. And if we just carefully and with calculation expose all of their nonsense accusations, it will be a great victory. Especially now it has become such a national issue that the leaders of society have to become involved, otherwise they'll become implicated. They have to come out and say whether they support the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: But they're supporting.

Jagadīśa: They must support it. Actually, I'm sure that they're astonished to find out how intelligent all the devotees are. The devotees are the most intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Then, what other letters.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Normal dress, that is standard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Or yoga pants. They can have pajamas and kurtās.

Hari-śauri: A separate woman's class? But that means, yes. That means you have to have women teachers.

Prabhupāda: These are artificial things.

Hari-śauri: Mixed class, but...

Prabhupāda: For woman there is no...

Jagadīśa: I think we should avoid women altogether. Avoid women altogether?

Prabhupāda: Women, it is only possible in our Vaiṣṇava bhakti-yoga—women and men can be given equal right. There is no other system.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: ...cannot accept anything artificial but Mr. Vijaya cannot keep up to that standard.

Prabhupāda: Vinoba Bhave is also not cent percent.

Girirāja: Oh, I know. But by chance, on this particular point...

Prabhupāda: He has written books, Bhagavad-gītā Pravacana. In his bhāṣya there is no kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So what is this Bhagavad-gītā Pravacana. Why he has avoided kṛṣṇa-bhakti? What is the reason?

Girirāja: He's envious.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi has... He's envious. The same thing. Bhagavad-gītā, he is writing essays on Bhagavad-gītā but the main principle of Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. What is that?

Girirāja: Mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me.

Prabhupāda: So where is that?

Girirāja: They don't follow.

Prabhupāda: This is their defect. Therefore they are failures. Must be failure. They do not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They mix with their false ideas. And therefore spoil, adulterate. And bhagavad-bhakti is without adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Pure. No adulteration. That is bhakti. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is not nirmalam. Sa mala it is. With mala. With mala. Mala. It cannot be. Proportionately. So where she has sent this article?

Girirāja: In some of the newspapers in Vaidore, maybe Nagpur. He's writing for about three or five copies of those original clippings.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Pālikā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature... Manu-saṁhitā says, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati: "Women should not be given independence." They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kuntī, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sītā... The father-in-law never said that "You also go with your husband." No. He requested Rāmacandra that "Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this." And Rāmacandra said that "You are not exiled." But Sītā said, "I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must..." You see? Just see, dependent.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (3): This Khorana has put out one (gene?), and if it keeps growing, it will really havoc with artificial development.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Girirāja: He says Dr. Khorana, he has made a gene.

Prabhupāda: Gene?

Guest (2): Living cell.

Prabhupāda: What it is?

Girirāja: Yes, they take it that the hereditary qualities that a person inherits is determined by these genes. So now they're thinking that if they can control the genes, they can create their own type of human being according to their own...

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You want to be a separate Kṛṣṇa. That is your ambition.

Guest (9): Initial thing is that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is initial. A servant, big man's servant... That is natural, that "If I would have become the master." So a servant, if he wants to become the master, that is artificial. A servant remains a servant—he is happy. And as soon as he tries artificially to become the master, that is the beginning of distress. So we are eternal servant of God. As soon as we try to become God, that is the beginning of our suffering.

Indian man: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The starting is there. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa bhūliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. As soon as you desire like this, that "I shall become God," so immediately there is māyā. That is māyā. So when you are entangled in māyā, then there is question of mukti. The mukti means muktir hitvā 'nyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena avasthitiḥ. This is mukti. Mukti means when we are acting differently. That is my condition. That is my bondage. And when I act according to my original position, that is mukti. So everyone is acting here to become master. So there is no question of mukti. As soon as you understand that "My real position is I am servant of God, so let me act as serv..."—then it is mukti. Hitvā 'nyathā rūpam. At the present moment we are trying to act as master.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: The American people are... They consider it backwards. Prabhupāda: That has to be educated, that backward is real life.

Rāmeśvara: They think they have achieved a higher standard of freedom by traveling all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar... What standard of...? That standard of life is still... Now that three hundred rupees is... He calculated.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they say Transcendental Meditation is going...

Hari-śauri: Six million.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's big because you don't have to give up anything. I met some of my old friends in New York, and I debated with them. And their philosophy is that this Transcendental Meditation is based on natural process of God consciousness, and our effort is all artificial. We are giving up meat, giving up sex—this is artificial. Their philosophy is that "If you continue meditating, one day automatically you'll give up these things. So why do it prematurely?"

Prabhupāda: No, but if one day you have to give it up, why not prematurely?

Rāmeśvara: Give it up when you are... By the Transcendental Meditation, twenty minutes a day, automatically you are purifying yourself naturally. Therefore that is more perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, if I can purify immediately, what is the wrong?

Rāmeśvara: He said it creates stress. By doing it artificially you create too much stress.

Prabhupāda: "No, we don't feel any... We do not feel any stress. You feel because you are unable to do it. But we don't feel it. We have given up... Since our spiritual master has said, we have given up, immediately. But you cannot do it," say.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, begged from some house.

Hari-śauri: That's what I made out from him. But this boy should be back very soon. The boy that went out to do the shopping should be back very soon. They took a van.

Rāmeśvara: There was one question I had, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You have written in the Third Volume of the First Canto different instructions for the age of Kali, how there'll be compulsory marriage and so on and so on. And you mentioned about the gold standard, that this is very bad, this artificial standard of monetary exchange.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is very bad.

Rāmeśvara: In the future this is something that we should try to correct.

Prabhupāda: You should introduce coin, real money.

Hari-śauri: Real gold coins. No paper.

Prabhupāda: Anyone has got money... It is fact. And what is this nonsense, keeping some paper and thinking he has got money? How cheating it is going on, from government's side. And therefore artificial inflation. You can print, so the price is increased. Because you haven't got to pay him real money, you print and pay him, and he will ask, "Give me this money. Then I'll supply." "All right, take." You print and pay.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: He can't increase the price of the product, and the man who got..., 'cause there's only a certain amount of money there.

Prabhupāda: But I can increase the price provided you pay me. But by printing, it is easier. But if you have to collect coins, that will be difficult, so there will be no artificial increase of...

Hari-śauri: Yes. Coins is a check...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...on charging too much.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. And these rascals, they are artificially printing paper as money. And I am a rascal; I'm demanding more because I have got customer.

Rāmeśvara: The difference between Vedic culture and..., the Kṛṣṇa conscious culture and the modern culture is very, very dramatic, very big difference. So the transforming of society...

Prabhupāda: And besides that, if we concentrate in farm project there will be no need of exchange, because I'll be satisfied with my products. That's all. There is no need of exchange. Whatever I need, I get in my farm.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And besides that, if we concentrate in farm project there will be no need of exchange, because I'll be satisfied with my products. That's all. There is no need of exchange. Whatever I need, I get in my farm.

Rāmeśvara: Weaving, cloth.

Prabhupāda: Everything I get. So I haven't got to go outside for exchange. If you are satisfied in your farm—I am satisfied—then where is question of exchange? There is no need of artificial... So this banking, "fanking," everything will collapse automatically. There is no money, who is going to keep money in the bank?

Hari-śauri: Who needs it?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So this artificial way of banking, that will be also collapsed.

Hari-śauri: This is revolutionary.

Rāmeśvara: It's very hard for the mind to...

Prabhupāda: No, simply do this.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever it may be... We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life.

Hari-śauri: But still, we're going out to attract people to come to our life-style.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: We're still going out to attract people to come and live like us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Well, even more than that, we know that we have the secret to real life, so it's our duty to actually... Just like you say...

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. That is preaching.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: The doctor must...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...save the patient. It's his duty.

Prabhupāda: No artificial dealing. Purge out.

Hari-śauri: When one actually has the power, he can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So by our preaching now, we have to try and establish a Kṛṣṇa consciousness government first through the democratic system.

Rāmeśvara: You said, "Think in terms of the whole world, not just one nation. That is our preaching." So you are training us to think very big, global.

Prabhupāda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Āpani ācārī prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Prasādam, Deity worship, devotional life... Then it will be all right.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Gandhi could never implement his program.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can do. They simply... Even... What is that? Marx? He could not. There is no real attraction. Artificial, by force. Here the real attraction is Kṛṣṇa. So other thing he doesn't mind: "Let there be little inconvenience. I don't mind."

Hari-śauri: A devotee is actually getting a higher taste. He's getting some real enjoyment, so he doesn't care for the other things.

Prabhupāda: So unless there is enjoyment he cannot stick. But that enjoyment is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Just that chanting is enough. It's just so much nectar.

Prabhupāda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kīrtana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to know where he is. Then we can give. What is his position? Then we can give him. Just like diagnosis. You have to see what is the disease. Then we give medicine.

Rāmeśvara: One of the symptoms of the disease is that all of the people are engaged in artificial work, and the whole world is interdependent. It is very complex system of world trade, world finance.

Prabhupāda: But we have nothing to do with that.

Rāmeśvara: But since the rest of the world is going on like that, then to transform it, it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, we say, "You are embarrassed. You come to us. Live with us. You get your food, and whatever service you can do, that's all right. Come here." That's all. We'll send in one of our farms or in temple. Let him be trained up. And if he is actually serious, then have engagement. There is no difficulty. "And if you want that 'I shall work in this way,' that is not possible. You have to work in our way." Then there is unlimited opportunity.

Hari-śauri: You want that verse?

Prabhupāda: Niyata.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Just now.

Prabhupāda: So what did he bring?

Rāmeśvara: So they have become completely dependent on oil.

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial, it will break. You cannot make a scheme of mental concoction. That will not endure. You take standard it will be beneficial. The whole world is in chaotic condition because they have so many artificial way of living.

Hari-śauri: You want some channa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: They brought some fresh channa. You want some of that too?

Prabhupāda: Bring separately.

Hari-śauri: With the peanuts. Separate.

Prabhupāda: The reason is: their real business they have forgotten. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to be happy by adjusting this external energy. They do not know what is happiness, what for happiness is meant for, nothing, simply manufacturing ideas which is external. Durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...the society. Eh? Father, mother, killing children, is that human society?

Rāmeśvara: No, lower than animal.

Prabhupāda: You see? And we have to tolerate this?

Rāmeśvara: Well, what about all these artificial divisions, "this nation," "that nation," "this land"?

Prabhupāda: That is also another fanaticism.

Rāmeśvara: Nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another fanaticism, gundaism. Not nationalism. Gundaism. "Everything belongs to God. We are sons of God. We must enjoy everywhere. You cannot check."

Rāmeśvara: It seems that eventually, then, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement will establish one world government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Actually that is the meaning.

Rāmeśvara: Within the period of...

Prabhupāda: We actually do. When you go to the sea, who claims "This is my sea"?

Hari-śauri: Actually they're doing that now. They have twelve-mile limits and things like that.

Prabhupāda: That is also limited. So twelve miles...

Hari-śauri: Middle of Atlantic they're not claiming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no claim.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now they are migrating. In Hawaii there are many Japanese. Many Japanese.

Hari-śauri: They're very much wanted in other countries as well. They're technicians.

Prabhupāda: So if you can educate people, they will be united. This is actually united nations movement. Actually see how these Europeans, Americans, and Africans, and others, without any artificial allurement, how we are keeping together. Nobody is dissatisfied with humble eating, humble living, humbly, plain living. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking-United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Kṛṣṇa conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity.

Hari-śauri: Just like India has so many villages. Because they are living simply, then there's enough for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No scarcity. Population increasing? You increase your food. So much land everywhere vacant, all over the world. But that they will not do. They will keep the cattles and eat. Cattle also, they want vegetables. Otherwise where you'll get cattle? But therefore in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food grains. Just like this is. How nice it is, from paddy. So you take the paddies, rice, eat, and the grass you can utilize in so many ways. Anywhere you can till the ground, you get paddy and the grass. Make your cottage. So shelter is there. And the animals also like this grass. You can make home. Where is the scarcity? Plain living, high thinking, and prepare for next life. Go back home, back to Godhead. Finish this hellish life of repeated birth and death. There is no knowledge. And when we try to give them this knowledge, they say, "You are brainwashed. You have imported some new way of life, style of life. Brainwash." So our European, American devotees, they like rice? No.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere people are simple. That is my opinion. Mass people, they are simple. The leaders spoil them.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's a fact. Most people are just... They're in ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The human psychology is the same for man, woman. That's all. Amongst the lower animals you see. The pigeons, they are the same. The sparrow, they are the same everywhere. The squirrels, the same, the same. So why men should be different?

Hari-śauri: It's artificial, the differences they've created themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: On national basis.

Prabhupāda: In Russia I have seen. The people are the same.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Common mass of people are always...

Prabhupāda: Simple.

Hari-śauri: I think I'll see what's happening with the van.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ambitious for Kṛṣṇa, everyone should be ambitious: "How I shall become a great devotee?" That is very good. Yes. Again finger problem. (laughs) So electric is not working? Just see. In the evening, we..., people want light. No light.

Jayapatākā: It works the whole day. Only in the evening it goes off.

Prabhupāda: Whole night also. Only evening, when you require it... (laughter) India's material advancement is artificial. They are not fit for it. In America, so long, no electricity every day? People would become mad. There would have been a revolution. Huh? Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes. They had a blackout in New York once for an hour or so.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that. I was that time.

Hari-śauri: Oh, you were there.

Prabhupāda: Not hour. It was four hours. And fortunately I was not out on the street. I was in my place. That accident took place just after few days of my arrival, 1965. One gentleman, he, I know, he brought me some candle. I had no candle even. Simply I was sitting in darkness. What can be done? But Kṛṣṇa sent him with some candle. Yes.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Although nonviolence is a very good word, but who can accept it? We don't say such rascal things, imagination. We introduce Kṛṣṇa, encouraging, "Fight!" Nonsense nonviolence. (chuckles) "Kṣatriya, you should fight. Don't talk nonsense." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam. "What kind of talking you are doing? You're My friend." And he wanted to introduce nonviolence. Where is nonviolence in Gītā? Artificial, all artificial.

Hari-śauri: When Arjuna wanted to stop fighting, Kṛṣṇa chastised him.

Prabhupāda: And he wants to prove nonviolence from Gītā. Just see how foolish he was. If you say publicly that he was a rascal, fool, then you become unpopular. But actually he was a rascal fool. (laughs) Artificial. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," and these rascals say, "Nonviolent." He's more than cheating. Māyāvādī.

Hari-śauri: Cheater.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheater, one must be due to ignorance. Generally one who is fool, he commits criminality. No sane man does it. Sane means he knows what is what. He does not commit mistake. But to commit mistake means he's insane, ignorant. That is not innocence-ignorance, foolish.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But why not understand this complicated machine? Can they manufacture this machine? It is machine. Bhagavad-gītā says. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). It is machine. Now understand this machine. Produce. They are trying. What is they call? Brain, artificial brain. They have no brain, and they are manufacturing brain. What is that brain? Nobody can say? They have artificial man just like...

Jayapatākā: Frankenstein.

Prabhupāda: Frankenstein.

Satsvarūpa: They themselves have no brain; they can't produce a brain.

Prabhupāda: But they are trying, such brainless. They have no brain, and they're trying to make another brain.

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara mentioned about that place he went to in that university in Boston.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But they are trying, such brainless. They have no brain, and they're trying to make another brain.

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara mentioned about that place he went to in that university in Boston.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: They have a whole department called "artificial intelligence."

Prabhupāda: Spending millions and millions in America. You know that? Where it is being done?

Hari-śauri: I think he said it was in Boston.

Prabhupāda: In M.I.T.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. And when he asked them, "What was the purpose?" they said, "Well, it's fun." He asked what the purpose was, they said, "Well, it's fun."

Prabhupāda: Fun?

Hari-śauri: Fun.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But they unnecessarily spending money. So they have spent unnecessarily for the moon expedition. Money, if you do not know, you'll spend it for unnecessary purpose. That is they are doing. So give them brain, and this money can be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have got money. Why they are trying to manufacture artificial intelligence? What is the purpose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want to be able to imitate God.

Prabhupāda: Then God is there. (laughs) You have to accept. If you want to imitate God, then God is there. That is our propaganda, not his.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they say artificial intelligence, it means that there is a real intelligence. And if they're trying to make artificial intelligence, someone must have made real intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Real intelligence you see in the flower. How intelligently colorful it is made. Every nature study. Study this machine, how intelligent. And just the hand, coming up, this finger, because we have to capture something, the nail is required. If it would have been all skin, you could not capture. How... And every machine is coming automatically. You study your body. And if the same machine, you producing a machine like that, automatically coming out, one thing, male machine, one female machine, and they'll bring another machine. Where is that? And here God has made such a nice machine. He says, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). That is also not made by God. It is made by God's agent, māyā. Now, see how God is intelligent. God's servant māyā, God says, "Give him a machine like that." Immediately she gives, supplies. Clearly says, bhrāmayan sar... "He wants to still travel in this material world, bhrāmayan. He wants to go there. Then all right, give him a machine." He's so kind. He's sitting within your heart. You want to do something. And He's so kind, because you are son, beloved, He says, "These are not required. Better come back. Live peacefully." You'll not hear. "No. I..." Just like naughty child. "All right, Māyā, give him. Give him." This is meaning.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll take that as an insult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We want they should be finished. (laughs)

Ādi-keśava: Right. Sometimes Mukunda, for instance, was saying that we should make an alliance, and then we can have more strength. But I said, "No. When we do that... We are pure, we are genuine, and they are artificial."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We should keep our purity.

Ādi-keśava: So we are always to emphasize that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: ...that we are separate.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa's our strength. They have no strength.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will save us. But the asylum in India with the government help, that will be very nice.

Ādi-keśava: So we'll investigate more in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Immediately, first duty.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Jayatīrtha: None.

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Mahāṁśa: You two were working together?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mahāṁśa: Yourself and Gandhi were together for some time?

Prabhupāda: In the beginning I was, 1920. No, everyone, every young man joined. (someone yelling in background) What is that? So ārati you can join, yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu (Bs. 5.38). Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).

Dr. Sharma: Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about these..., the artificial hearts that they are making?

Prabhupāda: Artificial heart and this real heart the same thing—it is material. Where is the difference? There is no difference.

Dr. Sharma: Just like they are trying to produce babies in the test-tube. They are never going to be successful. But they can keep on trying. I recently went to Houston, and there I have read that they cannot keep somebody alive even more than five, six hours. So far away from such a thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this heart transplant?

Dr. Sharma: Well, the heart transplants actually have been given up everywhere except one place, that's in Stanford Medical Center. And they are doing it because they are the one who initially started it, so they are emotionally stable about it. But actually I have gone and seen there, and they do it... The people are, you know, the recipient patient is very unhappy after the heart transplant. He's very restless, and he has nightmares and he is extremely unhappy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Has Dr. Barnard of South Africa stopped it now?

Dr. Sharma: Well, he has stopped after doing nine, but Stanford people, they have done about almost over a hundred, and they can keep somebody alive another six months or a year or at the most two years. But the man, the man's existence is very miserable. He has to take so many drugs, and he is bloated like a balloon, and he cannot even do the simple duties like taking walks or going to bathroom. He has to be very careful. If he just slips, it will develop the fracture of his ventricle, and that's all. It is very, very unnatural, and I don't think they can solve this problem at all. It is just man's struggle (for) life.(?) And I know they are saying they will do only in people with proper insurance because the hospital bill is $70,000 for a heart transplant.

Prabhupāda: All rascals, they...

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.

Mr. Koshi: But you yourself were involved in some of the movements.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are fortunate, they will accept it. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Find out this verse. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but we are neglecting. Allah... We are getting photograph(?) in Bhagavad-gītā. This is... Actually understand Bhagavad-gītā and distribute the knowledge. That is our aim.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then that television speech must be out in the paper.

Girirāja: Yes, it must have been reported this morning. I mean he is representing a return to the more traditional standards of morality and culture of India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that they are going to replace this family planning with yoga. Instead of using artificial means, they're going to teach yoga.

Prabhupāda: To become brahmacārī.

Girirāja: The minister of health and family planning, he said, he denied, that "This name should be changed to just minister of health, because this type of family planning is against the traditional values of India."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is totally against it. It's Western, the whole Western conception.

Girirāja: Actually, a short time ago, everyone knew that these things were wrong, but now they are trying to pretend that it is not wrong. They are trying to forget.

Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: About the land and cows, this is Bhagavad-gītā, mentioned, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Never recommends factory. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So there is no question of giving protection to the cows if it gives milk only. No. Go-rakṣya. There must be protection to the cow. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even the cows pass urine and stool, that is beneficial. And if it gives milk, then there is no question. Hm. What is that?

Lokanātha: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the war fields at the whims of a particular man?

It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should man not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which, combined together, can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes. Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The King at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity and nonviolence?

Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man.

We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and for men, by the grace of the Father Almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the Almighty Father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India. We have to simply take it and practically apply it, bas. (Hindi) We are not sentimental (laughs) religious group. Everything practical. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not like that, sentiment. Everything scientific, practical, for the good of the whole human society. Therefore I require that this must be pushed on for the whole human society, and naturally India also. (aside:) The prasādam arrangement is...? You give each item, one each... No, no, give me, give me, give... This is... Each item, you give one. I have got this ambition that Indian culture should be spread, and otherwise what can I do wherever...?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If not equal quality...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least...

Prabhupāda: So we have to touch all these. Then poverty... And "Drive away poverty. Give them more money." More money means cheating. You are employing; I am employed. Begins from government. More money and printing, they are coming. If I have got power to print paper and distribute it as money, you are dissatisfied, getting hundred rupees, you want two hundred, so what is to me? I print and give you. This is artificial inflation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More money means printing more bills.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but you haven't increased the...

Prabhupāda: And your enemy country, they're actually happy. They print exactly money like this. They come and purchase goods and give you fortune, anybody. I know. Then what is the difficulty? Suppose this American dollar, is it very difficult to print? So the Chinese, they are America's enemy, they can print, bring millions of dollars and purchase from your country and export to his country and give you some paper. You are... What you can do?

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning I have said it is childish, 1958. I am not scientist. I have no... No, there are so many incidences. I never agreed, "It may be they have gone." They did not go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has very elaborately described how they faked everything. He gave in great detail how each part of the hoax was perpetrated. The thing is...

Prabhupāda: The Apollo, they were dying. They prayed to God. This is also artificial. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our conclusion was that those three men who died were killed, that they never knew that there was a hoax while they were in training. Then, at the time when the spacecraft was going to take off they were told, "Now you're not going anywhere. This is only a hoax, so you have to act like this," and probably they did not want to. They refused. Therefore they were killed. We were discussing this yesterday, Gargamuni, Śrīdhara Mahārāja, Bali-mardana and myself. That was our conclusion, that those men must have been killed by the government.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise they'll disclose.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They distribute pills. I have seen the boys and girls dancing together, embracing, in the school film. That ruins the career. Both of them are ruined. That is very regrettable. Then you shall require this sterilization, pills, another big program. They are creating animal civilization, and when the animals are disturbing, they are trying to find out some other means. This is their program. First of all create animals. Then, when the animals behave like animals, then another program. Why do you create animal? Woman brahmacāriṇī, this is artificial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our centers, though, there are so many brahmacāriṇīs, and even sometimes they're encouraged to remain brahmacāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: That they cannot. As soon as they will find opportunity, they will become vyabhicāriṇī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll become what?

Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't advocate this remaining sing..., these women remaining brahmacāriṇīs.

Prabhupāda: Therefore polygamy was allowed. Let them be taken care of, one husband, three wives. Therefore the kṣatriyas were taking hundreds of women. They had money.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Risky.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Under the circumstances... Oh.

Upendra: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Upendra:) Yeah, I'll be back. Tell him it'll be ready tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: What is the...? (break) ...already a artificial kidney.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. For two years.

Prabhupāda: So it is not working.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not sufficiently, no. How can it work? How can an artificial kidney be expected to work like a real kidney? I mean, they want to hold back time.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think that they can defeat the time...

Prabhupāda: Nature. Nature's way.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): Hm.

Prabhupāda: This is the normal condition, that he fully surrenders and acts according to the dictation of Kṛṣṇa. This is surrender. He says also, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65)—four things. It doesn't require any... It is very easy. If you like, you can think of Kṛṣṇa always-man-manāḥ. And unless you love Kṛṣṇa, how you'll think of Him? Mad-bhaktaḥ. And bhakta will worship-mad-yājī. And worshiping means offering obeisances-māṁ namaskuru. These four things can do, any... Even a child can do. But they'll manufacture and ultimately come to the conclusion-void, finished. So our request is that life is not zero. It is a fact. Don't spoil it. Take His instruction from Bhagavad-gītā and become perfect. This is our request. And we have no difficulty. The authority is there, Bhagavad-gītā. We haven't got to manufacture anything, some artificial rules. The standard of knowledge is there. What is the difficulty? Why should you manufacture knowledge? They are imperfect. Whatever you manufacture, that is imperfect.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakha or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya... That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order... He was not even human being, animal, (indistinct), not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta. So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakta. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world, immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is the... (Hindi) ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse. They'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service of the Lord are called (sic:) bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mail boxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box or an imitation which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arcā-vigraha. This arcā-vigraha is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. God will accept service through that form. The Lord is omnipotent and all-powerful. Therefore, by His incarnation as arcā-vigraha, He can accept the service of the devotee just to make it convenient for the man in conditioned life. So for a devotee, there is no difficulty in approaching the Supreme immediately and directly, but for those who are following the impersonal way to spiritual realization, the path is difficult. They have to understand the unmanifested representation of the Supreme through such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, and they have to learn the language, understand the nonperceptual feeling, and they have to realize all these processes..."

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Upaniṣads it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ: "He sees, but He has no eyes." So what is that? How we can think of, one is seeing without eye? Aiye. There are so many. Śṛṇoty akarṇaḥ: "He has no ears..." So both things are there. When it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ... Mean cakṣuḥ, eyes, as soon we think of eyes, we think of our eyes, own eyes, and therefore it is forbidden, "Not like your eyes." Paśyati. He can see everywhere. Therefore we have to discuss śāstra. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti (Bs. 5.32). The aṅga, the different parts of the body of Kṛṣṇa, has got all the qualities of other aṅga. Just like we can see with eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can speak also with eyes. He can eat also with eyes. That is difference. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. So paśyaty acakṣuḥ means He has different type of eyes, not like our eyes. When there is nirākāra... Nirākāra means He hasn't got a ākāra, a form, like ours. That is nirākāra. But He has his form. And Kṛṣṇa says... So dehino 'smin yathā dehe: (BG 2.13) "Within this body the owner of the body is there." But if the owner of the body has no form, how the material form has come into existence? Just like this shirt has got hand. Because I am the owner of the shirt—I have got hand-therefore the shirt has got also hand. I have got my leg; therefore the pant has got leg. If you say, "The pant has got leg, the shirt has got hand, but the owner of the shirt has no leg, no...," is it possible? And this external body described as dress... Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Vāsa, dress. Dress cannot show any hand and leg unless the man who is dressed, he has got his hand and leg. So how He is nirākāra?

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty times?

Prabhupāda: That was in 1936. Rice has increased after 1940.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least it was twenty thousand rupees' value now.

Prabhupāda: All of a sudden rice has increased in 1942 by Churchill's artificial increasing his bribe to recruit soldiers. I have seen. Within two hours the price of rice, from six rupees it came to fifty rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Completely artificial.

Prabhupāda: I was in the grocer's shop purchasing, and all of a sudden the grocer says, "No, no, I am not going to sell any more." He got some information. So that time, six rupees per mound, first class...

Bhavānanda: Mound.

Prabhupāda: Per mound. Very first class rice. So he was not going to sell. A few hours after, I went to purchase-fifty rupees. From six rupees. Government appointed agents to purchase it and stock it. So people, being harassed, they'll come to military. This was Churchill's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those British were very clever.

Prabhupāda: Artificially created a famine in India. I have seen.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have no other business. We want to see people live, eating very nicely nutritious food, keeping good health. But unnecessarily artificial things, bothering, that we don't want. Keep your health very nice, live for as many years as possible, and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, next life, you go back to home, back to Godhead, permanent life. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). This we want to give. There is no cheating. There is no politics, no personal ambition fulfilling. This is our mission. Try to convince them. There is not a little tinge of personal sense gratification. This is our... Now can you point out, any one of them, that "Here is the point, the personal sense gratification"? We are talking amongst ourselves, so if there is any flaw, you can point out. Can anyone? That "Here is the point, personal sense gratification"? There is no such things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. Our only ambition is we live among devotees and execute the mission of our predecessors, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa. This is our ambition.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees (indistinct) a week. They have got cheap money. Print note and give him forty rupees. What is that? "You want forty rupees? Eh, take forty rupees." This is artificial inflation. They have got power to print notes. "Pay gold forty rupees." "No, that is illegal. Take paper." Means a cheating business from the government. He's giving him piece of paper, and the rascal is thinking, "I am making one thousand rupees." Formerly, in our childhood, we have seen a currency. They will offer, "What you want, gold, silver, or currency?" These three things were offered. If you want gold coins, take gold coins. If you want silver coins, take silver. And if you want currency, you take. We have seen it.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: (reading) "Regulative rains not only help ample production of food grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people want cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial, materialist's life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally?"

Prabhupāda: Like hog. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: Why don't you still take advantage?

Prabhupāda: Still you can take advantage of it. What you are doing? Here is this nice statement. Here is the thought.

Yaśomatīnandana: Another, Home Minister, also is saying these same things, discourage the factories and industrialization...

Prabhupāda: This is ruination. Factory means ruination. Factory means destruction. And agriculture means construction. The father is going to the factory, and the children are starving-destruction. Go on reading.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: England, nonsense number one. Worst false prestige, England. In that respect, other countries are better. They had a British Empire. They are still puffed up. And they will stay there to continue British Empire. Now they are earning money for eating, showing British Parliament House. Now there is no business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They make money by tour of the Parliament House.

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeepers' nation." The Parliament has become a shop. Artificially they're maintaining an atmosphere of aristocracy. There is not... I talked with some of their Lords. Artificial. The have lost all prestige. Still, "I belong to the Lords' House." The priestly order, the Lord family, I talked with them. Simply artificial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you gave it up as useless. To talk with those priestly orders, I remember, you concluded, "This is a waste of time." They're not at all priestly.

Prabhupāda: They have no intelligence. Anyway, do something.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to clarify a point. The other day I was discussing with this Professor Kundu...

Prabhupāda: Professor Kundu is a famous man, I think.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda..." This is a black devotee. "Please forgive me for my countless offenses against you and the entire Vaiṣṇava community. In desperation I beg that you accept my apology for being such an artificial devotee. My humble obeisances I quickly offer to you. I am simply praying every day for you to force me to become a true disciple. Otherwise I will be doomed."

Prabhupāda: How humble he is!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Spiritual life means to please the Gurudeva..."

Prabhupāda: He was a principal somewhere?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This boy was the top of his class in Yale University. He's the president of the class, top man in the entire graduating class. (continues reading letter describing preaching activities and book distribution in Communist Yugoslavia) Sometimes my life is being threatened or sought after by the authorities. Still..."

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous work.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, activity will give appetite.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it has to. Change of atmosphere gives appetite also.

Prabhupāda: So let us artificial activity. I think this is a nice arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra and I could see it for the last... (break)

Prabhupāda: And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become ṛttvik and act on my charge. People are becoming sympathetic there. The place is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "The introduction of Bhagavad-gītā has been translated into Tamil, and I will have the second chapter done next. Then publish a small booklet for immediate distribution."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says here that "These great Nobel Prize-winners have made protoplasm from inert substances simulating the conditions that prevailed in the primitive atmosphere of the earth. Do they know that human egg and sperm cells can be fertilized in test tubes and the fetus developed in an artificial womb or in the womb of a hired woman? Among animals that evolved on this planet..."

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they can do it.

Gurukṛpa: They haven't done it yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Among animals that evolved on this planet, man is the only animal that has progressed in all his activities. This he achieved through his knowledge in science. While all organisms continue to live even today as their forebears did millions of years ago, man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are uncivilized men. Without any knowledge they can produce children. Do they have any scientific knowledge? How they are producing children? The same man, the same woman, the same child. What is the difference?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is good. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people will come to this community to see how it is done. I think it will become very, very important in many different respects—for farmers, for people who are interested in designing ideal communities, for so many people who would like to live an ideal life, for people who want to come and see a unique place to visit, because there will be a temple of Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna there, a doll exhibit. I think it can be a wonderful preaching opportunity. And most wonderful of all is if we can exhibit self-sufficiency, that simply by farming the land, we can get enough grains, and taking care of the cows, we can get enough good foods to keep the body healthy. We can produce our own clothing. This is very much needed in this age. It's a positive alternative to artificial civilization. And the center will be Kṛṣṇa. All of the different activities and varṇas will be demonstrated, and all the different āśramas will be ideally being lived by the different devotees. People will see everything that they're doing is here but in its pure form and everyone working happily and cooperatively together. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order for it to really work you have to come there, to be very honest. I know it will never be there unless you come and stay with us there and just show us and teach us. 'Cause I've seen practically that although everything is already written, Your Divine Grace has had to come and show personally a little bit, "Do like this; do like that." As the ācārya, you have adjusted everything perfectly to suit the situation of the present day and age. No one else could do that, none of your Godbrothers. No one in India could ever do that except you. So you are required. Everything is there, but you are also..., you have to be there. Otherwise I don't know if it's actually possible. And it's very important. You have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're prepared to stay with you—all of the devotees feel this way—to encourage you to get better. Our plans are there, we're there, but we need you. You have to be there with us to guide us. I think that this disease is simply Kṛṣṇa testing our actual..., our love for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so that we will learn that we fully need you, 'cause actually we do. Everything we've done in this movement you've guided us with. We're realizing that you have to continue to guide us. We're not self-realized. We simply are able to carry out your instructions. So we have nothing else to do but to be with you here until you get healthy again and then lead us. This is our business now—to be with you. It seems like there are so many opportunities now that are beginning to present themselves. When you first went to the West there was nothing at all, and you created a whole world of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And now the public is beginning to actually take a real interest in our movement and people, respectable people from all over the world, are coming forward to want to help our movement. So there's a great facility that's available now even more than ten years ago. So if we've made so much progress in ten years, in another ten years there's no way to measure how much our movement can be expanded. And we're all just ready to follow each one of your directions. You don't have to tax yourself by... You can just talk to us and tell us, and we'll act. And we're very happy. In the meantime, we will give you the medicine of hari-nāma.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: But that will only come from renewal of strength. And renewal of strength will only come from appetite, when you start eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's not artificial.

Prabhupāda: Eating only juice.

Bhakti-caru: Milk... (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Juice is for maintaining. It's not for improving the condition. Juice you can maintain one's life, but to actually get strength you have to take something more substantial than juice. Milk is one thing, of course.

Bhakti-caru: Kavirāja is stressing on milk and barley.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The kavirāja said he had some cough medicine to put in the milk.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Yes. He gave it to me yesterday. But last night I didn't want to give the milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what about now?

Bhakti-caru: Milk hasn't come. Next I will give. Say after about an hour. Now I will feed him the orange juice and...

Bhavānanda: Maybe after parikrama.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) How many plane go from Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a... Delhi, there's two flights.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I had some stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Earlier today. That also, I see by the writing, was good color. Actually that's a good sign, that it's being passed naturally, without any artificial means. You may be feeling relief from that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The stool which I was proposing came out by juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Came out naturally.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Did Prabhupāda have barley and milk tonight?

Bhakti-caru: No, I got it ready. I just came to ask. Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Hm. Now you can go.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will continue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if the treatment is continuing, if the treatment is working, why not continue it under the guidance of this kavirāja for some time? His point is this. This is what I've seen, Śrīla Prabhupāda, being your secretary all these months, that whenever you took milk you would get cough. For the first time I see there's no cough coming. Another problem, you couldn't pass urine. Now there's double the amount of urine. Another thing, you couldn't pass stool. Now it comes normally. At least it comes without any artificial means. So the one thing that has not yet come is strength, and kavirāja is suggesting what you yourself had always said, "If I can drink milk, I will get stronger." So if the kavirāja's treatment... To my feeling it has worked. At least symptoms... The symptoms have been better under his treatment than any doctor so far.

Prabhupāda: That will work.

Page Title:Artificial (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:06 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=113, Let=0
No. of Quotes:113