Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say he is more pious than that man who has made so much charity?" The śāstra says, "Yes. Yes." Why? That is also explained in the Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That activity is considered to be the highest pious activity. The Bhāgavata does not say what kind of activity. "That activity which leads one to be a devotee of the Lord." That activity is not limited. Any activity that makes one progressing for realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is higher, the highest pious activity. That is the description. Just as military art is not a very pious activity, killing art. But because the killing art exhibited by Arjuna was leading him to this platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, so that became the highest pious activity. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro... We have to see whether by his activity he's gaining strength in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is highest.
Art (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Would you discuss your dancing with me please and explain something of it. I first saw it Tuesday evening, and I would like to know more about it.
Prabhupāda: We don't this dancing as an art. It is automatic. We dance, we cry, we chant, we laugh not by artificially learning it. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. As you begin to chant, naturally you feel for dancing. So it is not taught artificially. It comes simultaneously with development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: All right, all right. That's all...
Satsvarūpa: I have a question from the art department.
Prabhupāda: Art, yes.
Satsvarūpa: Jadurānī asks are they going too slow? She wants to know are they going too slow. They have thirty pictures ready.
Prabhupāda: Then why not ask and get her married? Yes. Then she will be fixed up. I think she requires to be married. Then she will be satisfied.
Satsvarūpa: One more question from art was...
Prabhupāda: She is here. I recommend that just ask her to get married. If she agrees, that, what is that boy?
Brahmānanda: Nayanābhirāma.
Prabhupāda: Let them marry and
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Very costly here. And even if we pay, this nature, this type of book, is very difficult to be printed in India, such nice paper, printing.
Haṁsadūta: Even on U.S. standards, these books, although they retail for eight dollars each, they are worth at least twenty dollars. If you purchase a book of this quality... Generally art books come like this, with many color illustrations, and they charge twenty dollars.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): It is to be felt.
Prabhupāda: Ah... Yes. It is to be learned, just like the electrician learns how to adjust the positive and negative wire, and as soon as it is rightly adjusted there is light. You cannot say, "No, no, why it shall be adjusted like this? It can be done like this." Oh, that will not give you light. You cannot speculate on the science. One plus... Two plus two equal to four. You cannot speculate, "Oh, can it not be three? Cannot be five?" No, that is not possible. You have to accept this two plus two equal to four. So the same example: so long it was not being adjusted to the right point, there was no light. So this adjustment... Suppose there is failure in my home. For this adjustment I have to call an experienced man. You may be a lawyer, you may be very nice thinker, but so far electricity is concerned, you have to call for a mistrī, who may not be learned like you but he knows the art, how to do it, expert. Similarly, such a vast subject to understand God, you do not require the help of an expert?
Guest (1): I did not take that...
Prabhupāda: So in our, this Vedic way of life, to accept guru is essential. Even big, big ācārya... Even Kṛṣṇa, He accepted guru, Sandipani Muni. Lord Caitanya accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. They are perfect, but still, the ways They are showing because They are ācārya. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, taking the part of the ācārya, so he is also accepting, although the fact is as soon as went to, within a few days He learned everything. That is stated in our Kṛṣṇa Book. Within a few days He became expert warrior, expert magician, expert yogi, every..., so many things, all arts. But He learned from a guru. He is perfect Himself, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education. So if one is serious about loving God, then it doesn't matter in which way he learns that art. It doesn't matter. He won't discriminate, "Oh, I must learn this art from this university." No. Any university. It doesn't matter. So our principle is that we are teaching love of God. So actually, those who are after God, they are coming. It doesn't matter whether he is in America, in Russia, in Africa, or Canada. It doesn't matter. They are coming. And method is simple. Chant the holy name of God. If you have got any name, you chant. We preach this. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got any name, God's name, then chant that.
Guest (2): Can I get one point straight? Is the Beethoven symphony all right provided it is blessed as an object and a work of art. Is it then all right? Or is it not all right because it doesn't use religious themes?
Haṁsadūta: Originally, music and art were employed only to glorify the Lord in the scripture and...
Prabhupāda: In Sāma-veda, Sāma-veda.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Anyway, there was a wrestler, he was not very strong, but he knew the trick how to defeat the strongest man.
Śyāmasundara: There is a science of equilibrium where you can study another person, if he is off equilibrium, you can move his body in such a way to defeat him every time. Japanese art.
Prabhupāda: Train. That Los Angeles, there is one Japanese...
Śyāmasundara: Behind the temple.
John Fahey: Guitar, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is for human being, art, not for the cats and dogs. So how you can go to animal life? That is not possible. (break) How do you know your father?
John Fahey: Well, I met him.
Prabhupāda: So, religion, very simple—I am talking with that man over there—religion means the laws of God. Simple definition. And one who follows the laws of God, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is Christian, whether he is Hindu, whether he is Muslim. It doesn't matter. Take, for example, your Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shalt not kill", but I think cent percent of the Christian people, they are very much engaged in killing. So there are, I mean, disobeying the laws of God. Don't you think? What is..., what is the value? And if you disobey the laws of God, then what is your religion? It is simply show. God says, or God's representative, God's son, Jesus Christ says, that "Thou shalt not kill," but the whole Christian world, the killing art is very much favored. Maintaining slaughterhouse, shooting in sports, and creating (indistinct), and so many things, simply killing. And any film shown, when it is killing film as is very much popular. Shooting film is very popular. I see in your park the soldiers killing. This, this park I was passing. What is that park?
Devotee: Prospect Park.
Prabhupāda: Everyone should take it. This is the (indistinct). But if somebody thinks that "My aim of life is different. I don't care for God," that is a different case. But our philosophy is, this human life is especially meant for developing that God consciousness or to know the art how to love God. Because the animals, they cannot. I cannot preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy amongst the animals, because their consciousness is not so developed. But still, my movement is so perfect that I can do well even to the cats and dogs—by offering prasādam, by giving him chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This vibration is transcendental. When it is chanted it is good for everyone, all living entities. Therefore we go to the street and chant so that everyone can hear the transcendental vibration.
Woman: Jodhpur.
Prabhupāda: Jodhpur? Same place. We had been in Jaipur. Great function we had. (Hindi) In whatever profession you are, you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa by your professional talent. Then your... Bhagavān is not stereotyped, that Bhagavān becomes... Just like Bhīṣma. He was great devotee, and in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra Bhīṣma was piercing the body of Kṛṣṇa by arrows and Kṛṣṇa was feeling very nice. So it is not that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied simply by throwing rose flower. Sometimes a devotee throws arrow and Kṛṣṇa becomes satisfied. So we can satisfy Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. Kṛṣṇa is varied. He is not stereotyped. But we must know the art how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful.
Guest (1): How can we realize Kṛṣṇa is satisfied?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you'll realize when you satisfy actually. You have to take direction. Just like you are engineer or business administrator. You learn the art from a teacher, and then you can know how you are satisfying your master. Just like if you eat, then you can understand that "how we are being satisfied." You haven't got to ask anybody, "Am I satisfied?" If you are eating, then you'll be satisfied. Similarly, if you serve Kṛṣṇa according to the superior direction, then you'll understand that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. First of all you have to learn how to satisfy, and then, reciprocally, you'll be aware that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with you by the result.
Prabhupāda: So nothing is bad if it is engaged for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, however good it may be in the estimation of material conception, it is the cause of bondage, good or bad. It doesn't matter. So you have to learn the art, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. Then your life is perfect.
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
- tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet
- samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
- (MU 1.2.12)
So you have to learn the art from a person who is actually engaged in the service of satisfying Kṛṣṇa. Then, if you act accordingly, then your life is successful.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Or better than that is to praise the Creator.
Devotee: This sculpting is such a nice art. You're very fortunate to have such a skill.
Prabhupāda: You can... (Prabhupāda is eating) Horrible. ...carve so many pastimes of God, Kṛṣṇa's. In India, the sculptor used to do like that.
Haṁsadūta: Everywhere, all over the world, art's business was to make scenes of..., spiritual scenes.
David Wynne: There's no great art that isn't religious in the world, that isn't to do about God. Because art about man is already debased, isn't it. Yes, must be. But I feel that if one even me, even people like me, the ordinary people making ordinary things, if they're, if it is praising nature... Because nature's an aspect of God, isn't it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Wynne: Yes. Well, Queen Elizabeth the First, a gold coin, very beautiful. And I said this was a work of art, and I showed them. It's a very beautiful thing. And I said, "I could do you one like that." So they... So I got the job. But he was very annoyed.
Śyāmasundara: East India Company, it says on here.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: So the coins were given out by the East India Company.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all the Britishers went there as East India Company to have trade connection.
Mr. Wadell: Well, it is both difficult and not difficult.
Prabhupāda: No. Everything, there is a Bengali word, yanra karya tare saje, anya loke lati baje. (?) Anything, if one is practiced to do, he can do it very easily. And for others, it is just like striking with a rod. Anya loke lati baje. Suppose if there is some difficulty in electricity, I do not know anything. It will be very, very difficult task for me. But anyone who knows, immediately he connects two wires, there is light. It is simply to know the art.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mumukṣu. So this mumukṣu, they're giving up this material things, but they do not know there is connection with, ah, hari-sambandha.
Reporter: Yes, hari-sambandha.
Prabhupāda: They do not know this art.
Reporter: Kṛṣṇa connection, yes.
Yogeśvara: (from this point Yogeśvara translates some of the dialogue)
Prabhupāda: And to get help for this realization we are concerned with everything. Naturally, politics, economics, science, art, philosophy, everything is included. And that is the perfection of all other subject matter. Everything has got an objective. So any of these departmental knowledge, namely politics, economics, art, science, philosophy, religion, art, science, philosophy, religion, everything should be aimed to achieve this end, God realization.
Prabhupāda: No, suppose the United Nations is the organization of the whole human society, so if I ask the United Nations, as an organization that: "What is the purpose of this cosmic manifestation?" That is a fact. There is a cosmic manifestation. The scientists, they are also trying to understand. So there are so many scientists, philosophers, what is their answer? Suppose I am inquisitive to know something. So where shall I inquire?
Dr. Inger: Now if you were to inquire from... Because the only organization which deals with culture, therefore philosophy, therefore religion, therefore art, therefore music, is UNESCO Paris. Not New York. And if you did put such a question, you would get some kind of reply from one of the directors who says: "We, we... Such a proposal has not been made.
Ambassador: I think, Your Eminence, there's a lot in what you say, but, you know, politics is the art of the possible.
Prabhupāda: No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prajāpati: ...well you utilize your time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every second is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And our advanced Godbrothers, they've also learned this art. The vast majority of us, we haven't quite got the hang of it yet.
Prabhupāda: It is practiced. As by practicing you become a first-class drunkard, similarly by practicing you can become a first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is equal. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Abhyāsa. Practice. In association the practice is very easily done. Just like you are saying, that you are engaged. So by association you can learn also. The association is very important. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaduvara: What class does the arts and crafts come under?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Śūdra.
Yaduvara: Śūdra.
Prabhupāda: They are śūdras. Little arts and crafts can be trained up to the śūdras. They, at the present moment, they have given too much stress on the arts and crafts.
Yaduvara: Hm. Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, they'll be teachers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Droṇācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he was teaching military art to the Pāṇḍavas. General teacher class will be the brāhmaṇas. It doesn't matter what he's teaching. But teaching, perfectly teaching, how to become a military man. Arjuna's fighting was due to Droṇācārya. He learned it from Droṇācārya. He was a brāhmaṇa. But because he took the position of a teacher, he thought very perfectly. A brāhmaṇa should be expert in every kind of knowledge. If requires, he'll become teacher. This is brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Nārakī.
Nitāi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Arcye viṣṇau... (break) ...when it will teach military art, with tilaka, soldiers will, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa..." (laughter) We want that. Marching with military band, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." You maintain this idea. Is it not good?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Mr. Sar: None of the guṇas are there.
Prabhupāda: Just like an electrician. He is, by his knowledge, he is, the same box, he's turning to be a refrigerator. And again heater. He knows how, the art. So the heat and the coolness is coming from the engineer. But he's not there. He's not there.
Dr. Patel: God is with that.
Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "tataḥ-thereafter..."
Prabhupāda: Just see. Sañjaya was speaking in the room to Dhṛtarāṣṭra and he said that "Now He showed." That means he was seeing. That is another television. Another television. That television is unknown now. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. Premāñjana-churrita-bhakti-vilocanena. This is also television. The television machine is within the heart. One can see everything, provided he has learned the art how to see, that television within the heart.
Haihaya: Some people say that what make us different from the animals is that we can enjoy art and we can enjoy music and we can enjoy all type of art...
Prabhupāda: The animals... the snake also can enjoy music. Do you know that? You play very nice music. A snake will be charmed. He will stand. It will not attack you. Similarly the deers... The hunters, they play very nice music, and they assemble here, and they fight and kill them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone knows. What is this? (laughing) Even from moral point of view, a disciple is just like daughter. And this man was having sex life with his disciple. And he's a yogi. Just see. Even he has no moral sense, apart from spiritual knowledge. According to human social constitution, one should not have sex life with daughter, with mother and sister. And what is this? If one has sex life with daughter, then where is the moral life?
M. Roost: I was always interested by Buddhist Zen. I think it's a way, very strong, with a technique which is a little different as yoga. For example, one practical way is les arts martiaux, like aikido, judo, and kendo. I think the approach is very, very interesting, but very difficult to understand.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
M. Roost: It's to go through death by stop one from this sentence that people is afraid of death and is a fast program how to transcend human life, how to transcend la mort.
Prabhupāda: Then what he will do? (laughing)
Bhagavān: They should take a few out now and see if it worked.
Prabhupāda: No, that can be done. The yogic process. It is called kumbhaka. Samādhi. You stop your breathing, and you can keep yourself for thousands of years. That is the kumbhaka. But this art is known by the frogs also.
Yogeśvara: By the frogs?
Prabhupāda: Yes, and the grains are put within it and they are all smashed. But one grain who takes shelter of the center, the pivot, it is not smashed. Similarly the modern civilization is such that everyone will be smashed. And one takes the central point shelter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will not be. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So best thing is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and save yourself. Save means... This is saving, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma... Kṛṣṇa appears, disappears. Kṛṣṇa works here also, in the battlefield or in other field. Kṛṣṇa has a whole activity. You study Kṛṣṇa Book, beginning from the birth up to the point of His leaving this world. Full of activities. Not that because He is God, He is sitting one place. No. Full of activities in all different spheres of life. Art, philosophy, politics, sociology, military arts—everything complete. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord.
Yogeśvara: Where?
Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation.
Prabhupāda: They are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So by uttering the word Kṛṣṇa, immediately you think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. It is not difficult at all. And you can always think of, just like these boys have been taught, walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... Just like we have got this. I am talking with you, but two minutes I talk with you, as soon as I stop, I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... What is the difficulty? It is simply practice. No difficulty. And simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, everyone can see how these young boys and girls, they are not very old, they have taken to it quite young, but they have forgotten everything. They do not go to cinema, do not go to hotel, no dancing. Dancing they have got—Kṛṣṇa dancing, always. Painting they have got, singing they have got, arts, literature
Devotee (3): Everyone thinks in terms of their own relative position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even an insignificant bird, because he knows swimming, he knows swimming, so he can (indistinct). Because you do not know swimming, you cannot say like that. Even insignificant bird, just see how nicely he is swimming. He knows the art. Everyone, cent percent of the modern people, they do not believe in God and they do not know what is religion. That is the position. They think religion is sentiment, anyone can manufacture his own sentiment, there is no God. This is going on. So we are in fault. It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. The whole world is under this conception; therefore we are at fault, we are preaching God consciousness.
Paramahaṁsa: There's a promenade around the fountain.
Prabhupāda: So they have made this art. Suppose a real man and woman stands here. Will it be considered as art or criminal?
Paramahaṁsa: It would be considered criminal to them.
Prabhupāda: Then? Their art is criminal.
Prabhupāda: We don't glorify the body of... Who glorifies the body of man? We say it is dead body. Dead body means that does not need glorification. It is condemned. We say dead body, decoration of the dead body. We don't say art.
Paramahaṁsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body. Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.
Prabhupāda: That is called bhūtejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, that is the prominent thing, bhūtejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause, break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?
Bhagavān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is French art, to make naked?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.
Lady: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (some guests leave) So now we have come to Germany. You cooperate and make it a great success for the general benefit of the whole humanity. We have got arts, music, literature, culture, food, everything.
Prof. Pater Porsch: I think it will also help to quite a considerable extent for the removing of prejudices and for a better understanding of...
Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum... That was... Just like Jarāsandha and Bhīma. They, they wanted that "We want to fight with you..." (Break) Unless one of the kings died... (Break) ...a strong flavor, and it is continually, continues. So long it is alive, the flavor is there. So where is that art, where is that science? When you have... Where is that scientist amongst the human society? They are very much proud of their scientific advancement. Everything see, the flowers and leaves, so artistically, beautifully manufactured that simply by seeing them you'll feel pleased. How the man can manufacture it? And still, they are denying the existence of God and taking all the credit. How foolish they are. Mūḍha. (laughter) Yes.
Prabhupāda: When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Whatever talent one has got... These talents are also acquired after austerity. It is not ordinary thing. So everything should be employed to describe Uttamaśloka, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is Uttamaśloka. So we have got so many Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's pastime. We can overflood. Just like you can overflood with this literature, we can overflood... This is art. Art, music, everything we can utilize. In any way one is addicted—let him eat only, let him sing only, let him paint only, let him dance only—we have got everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let him do business also. Yes. Engineering-construct temple. It is so all-perfect movement, Kṛṣṇa... That is Kṛṣṇa, all-attractive. Everyone can be attracted and give up everything. He will be attracted by Kṛṣṇa in such a way that he'll give up all nonsense. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No more other enga... Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11).
Guest (1): If I am satisfied? Can I rely that much on myself?
Prabhupāda: Anyone can do, provided he knows the art how to do it. It is a technique also. You cannot make experiment as a crude man. You must be expert. But it is... In our Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find that there is a statement, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just try to make an experiment on the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte pabe camatkāra: "When you make an experiment, then you'll be awe-full 'Oh, it is so nice.' " So it is not to be accepted blindly.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that not all knowledge is so objective. For example, in the matter of understanding society, the communists have their theory, the capitalists have their theory, and there's millions of theories and so...
Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge; that is art. Just like electrician. He knows how to mix the two wires and bring the current. That is not knowledge; that is a business or art for temporary recreation. And because he knows the art how to bring the current, it does not mean that he knows the Absolute Truth. So people are taking at the present moment electrician as the knower of the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.
Prabhupāda: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. (break) To live in cottage means to save time.
Hṛdayānanda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? (break) Karmīs, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jñānīs, they are living that "This is mithyā," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithyā, false? Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmīs, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Rūpānuga: But still, they are thinking because they can do, make the background a little...
Prabhupāda: Just like if you paint a picture, rose, you are a painter, not that you know the knowledge. A painter is not a man of knowledge. Man of knowledge means he knows how things are being done. That is man of knowledge. Painter imitates some painting, that's all. He may be a good painter, but a painter is never taken as man of knowledge. I think, therefore, two departments, art and science. So this knowledge, this technical knowledge... Suppose one man has created an aeroplane. That is an art; that is not knowledge.
Rūpānuga: So if they create some synthetic, that is an art.
Prabhupāda: That is an art.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apart from science, we have very nice philosophy and literature, studying art.
Prabhupāda: That is real science. Science we admit, but your science is not. You are trying to go against the laws of nature.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about our art and literature which just shows that...
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say "Why...?" Many people I meet in the university they're not involved with science very much. Their main dealings are with culture, literature, arts, philosophy, music. They say... He feels we have very wonderful, beautiful things to study so why should we take up studying what you have to offer. There's so much to study with what we're doing. Why should we join your movement? Why should we give up studying such beautiful music and art and literature?
Prabhupāda: Because you'll like it. And there is beautiful sounds, you'll hear it. Even animals hear it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like some people may express God by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa but we can also express God through our musical talent. (break)
Prabhupāda: You decorate God so nicely (indistinct) ...art painting, everything. They, putting art, so many thing, (indistinct). There's no scarcity of art painting.
Paramahaṁsa: Australian, he says.
Prabhupāda: Australian, that's nice. Learn this art and preach. There is good potency in your country. You are also not poverty. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣi means very rich, kings. He never said, "All the bungees understood it. All the wretched class understood it." He never taught. It is meant for the leaders of the society, opulent kings and leaders. It is meant for them. Poverty-stricken man cannot under... But there is no bar, there is no hindrance. But this is especially meant for the opulent person. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ? And He instructed first to the sun-god. He is not ordinary person. He instructed later on to Arjuna. He is not ordinary person. Because one important person learns the science, he will preach it all over the earth. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has directly said they are not ordinary persons. So unless one is materially not ordinary, he cannot preach. All the Gosvāmīs, they were coming from respectable... And where Gauḍīya Maṭha came? These are third-class men, no position in their past life.
Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?
Indian boy: Yes, there is...
Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: But the schoolteachers, and the church leaders, and my parents, and grandparents, they all seem to think that it's all right what we're doing, so...
Prabhupāda: But because they are all rascals. Therefore we say all rascals. They may think like that, but our conclusion is anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. He may be my teacher or father or anyone. He is a rascal. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "One who cannot save me from the impending danger of birth, death, old age, and disease, he is not my father, he is not my teacher, he is not my guru, he is not my kinsman, he is not my wife, he is not my husband." So many list. So who has got this knowledge, how to save one from the cycle of birth, death, and old age? It is only we, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. We are teaching. Stop your this cycle of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Come to eternal life and blissful life. So we are the only friends. All are enemies even in the shape of friend or father or teacher-enemies. They do not know the art.
Dr. Gerson: I'm trying to learn.
Prabhupāda: So first of all learn it. Otherwise you will be cheating. If you do not know the art and if you want to do some benefit to the others, then that is cheating. Suppose a physician, he does not know what is the medical science and if he wants to become a physician, that is cheating. Quack. (laughter)
Dr. Gerson: I hope through the study that I'm doing with the devotees and the book that comes out of it that it will help them not be cheated any longer and show them the right way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, it is possibility. Just like you have got this religious section, similarly, we can have Vedic theological section. That's all. It is a section department.
Dr. Judah: The idea of the college that you have in mind, is this going to be an all-around college, in other words teaching not only, you might say, Vaiṣṇavism, but also English and the other subjects?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Judah: In other words, a liberal arts college with a religious section in it.
Sandy Nixon: And also sociologically or cultu... Can he work better in the community?
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But if you put in a body, though they cannot be mixed, but they can stay together. Like in a chemical laboratory we take a test tube. In the test tube I can mix two solutions like, for example, mercury and water and oil. They will not mix, but they will stay in the same test tube. But a man who knows about the art of separating those three mixtures can do it very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, soul does not mix with the matter and by this art, transcendental knowledge, you can become out of it.
Prabhupāda: Naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. He sees his brother at home, but he cannot see on the stage. Everything requires qualification. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for qualifying you to see God twenty-four hours. This is sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you learn this art, then you will see God twenty-four hours, without any stop. And that is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, that yoginām api... "He is first class who has learned to see God always in his..." Yogi means that. Yogi does not mean to play some magic. Magician also can play some magic. A devotee is not interested to show any magic, but he is interested to see the magician, supreme, who is playing so much magic.
Prabhupāda: One must know how to put the variety to look very (indistinct). If all the vases have only rose flowers it would not have been so beautiful. Rose is costly, but the leaves are not costly. But the leaves and the rose fit together, it becomes very good variety. That art is required, how to keep varieties together for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and look very beautiful. This art is known to the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, not to the fools and rascals. Why Kṛṣṇa has made varieties? Why you should try to change? That is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When Kṛṣṇa has made so many varieties there is some purpose. That one should understand. That is intelligence. You can organize these farms very nicely. Then this devil's workshop will stop.
Nityānanda: What will stop?
Prabhupāda: The devil's workshop, without proper engagement there is devil's workshop.
Mādhavānanda: Everyone thinks in terms of their own relative position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Even an insignificant bird, because he knows swimming, he knows swimming, so he can challenge, and because you do not know swimming, you cannot say like that. Even insignificant bird, just see how nicely he is swimming. He knows the art. (break) ...one, cent percent of the modern people, they do not believe in God, and they do not know what is religion. That is the position. They think, "Religion is sentiment. Anyone can manufacture his own sentiment. There is no God." This is the position. So we are in fault. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is under this conception. Therefore we are at fault. We are preaching God consciousness.
Brahmānanda: In this area? (break) ...in the Kṛṣṇa book are like this. (break)
Dhanañjaya: It's a colony of birds.
Prabhupāda: Babui(?). They create such nest, hanging nest. It is very nice fiber, fabricated. They know the art, simply by beaks. They have no hands. They want... They work only with the beaks, and you see the workmanship. Is our men going?
Prabhupāda: Ah, fumigation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When the termites get into the wood they eat up the wood and they hide in nests underneath the house. So the way that they try to kill the termites is by gassing them. They cover their house with a tent, and then they gas, and it goes into the nests and kills all the termites. They are perfecting this art of killing. You said that in Calcutta in a very expensive cloth shop... Your father's brother used to have cloth shop?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That when there was rats and they would eat the cloth that he would simply put some prasādam in the room.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...big building.
Haṁsadūta: Some kind of auditorium.
Harisauri: (break) Art.
Prabhupāda: Art. Some art. Art, music
Harikeśa: It's very enjoyable to hear music.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) So why don't you come here?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Haryana?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Next to our temple there's so many kalākendras.
Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Kalā has another meaning of "art."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...people engage in academic kalākendra, and the price of rice is rising. No rice. Rice kalā. "My dear kalākendra, can you supply me rice?" "No." (laughter)
Tejas: It's increasing actually.
Prabhupāda: Nature's law you cannot check. It must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Bhāgavata says, "Don't try to improve all these things, it is not possible. Improve your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be benefit for your life." (sees another sign) Sangeet (indistinct). Means you can dance. And when our men dance, what do they call? Crazy, crazy. (reads signs) Śrī Rāma. Śrī Rāma for art and culture. So arrange dancing in this Sangeet dance, here. (laughter) They'll not allow? Hm?
Haṁsadūta: Their idea of dancing is different to...
Dr. Patel: Acchā. Celo.
Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)
Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...
Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I, we are not that...
Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market. Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery. (laughing) (Hindi conversation with man about Kṛṣṇa's name) Ajāmila spoke "Nārāyaṇa." You may speak in the name of your father, that his called name. Heḥ?
Prabhupāda: That is a chance; that is not...
Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.
Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.
Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47).
Prabhupāda: So, my problem, there is no problem, because as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa, śrīr, vibhūtir, victory, everything is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we have got everything, but I am not a yogi. We must believe in the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ tatra śrīr vibhūtir vijayo. Everything is there. That art we have to learn, that let us become dependent like Arjuna on Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: It must have been Harikeśa.
Prabhupāda: The Mohammedans say. In the Koran it is written there, "From this day, no sex life with mother." In the modern philosophy they say, "What is the wrong? Why there should be discrimination?" John Lennon was follower of this. "Sex anyone. It doesn't matter. It is a bodily necessity. That's all." They learn this art from the hogs, hog philosophy.
Prabhupāda: You know this Ravi Shankar?
Guru-kṛpā: Umm hmm.
Prabhupāda: His elder brother, Udar Shankar, he became very famous man as a dancer, all over the world. Udar Shankar. And by imitating his brother, the Ravi Shankar also tried to become first-class sitarist. So family.... (break) ...was a little famous for artistic.... So that Udar Shankar was dancing in the Indian way, and there are many sculpture of dancing. Like that. That was his art. So he became famous.
Prabhupāda: Very simply thing. Just like the art of the material nature. Everything is coming out of the material nature, beginning from the grass to the highest intellectual human being or more than that. Wherefrom they are coming? From this material nature: ether, earth, water, fire. This element, some material nature. Let us see from the ground, the grass is coming, the vegetable is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, all the ants are coming, the germs are coming. Then, after eating that vegetable, the animals are coming. In this way everything is coming, generated from the earth, from the material nature. Is it not a fact?
Reporter: Mmm!
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Whatever it may be, I can present some literature, but you have nothing. You rascal. (laughs) Whatever it may be, I have got something, but you have nothing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember studying in college about this, that we were studying Indian art, and they showed pictures of people on other planets and all these things, the demigods, and the teacher said "These are mythologies of India."
Bharadraja: This is all kaitava-dharma.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, kaitava. You do not get any more benefit. After practicing yoga for ten years, twenty years, if you learn this art how to walk over water, so you can show the magic to the foolish man. But intelligent man will say, "It is a question of four annas. I can walk. Why shall I waste my time, twenty years, for learning this art?"
Prabhupāda: A brahmacārī is advised to go begging alms door to door, addressing all women as mother, and whatever he collects goes to the benefit of the guru. In this way he learns how to control his senses and sacrifice everything for the guru. When he is fully trained, if he likes he is allowed to marry. Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
Interviewer: Where did you get these paintings?
Prabhupāda: Paintings? Our students did.
Rāmeśvara: Our art studios are here in Los Angeles.
Interviewer: What happens when that inevitable time comes when a successor is needed?
Rāmeśvara: He is asking about the future, who will guide the movement in the future.
Prabhupāda: They will guide. I am training them.
Prabhupāda: In everywhere, every center.
Hṛdayānanda: Museum, library...
Rāmeśvara: Then, eventually, Bharadvāja wants to have big museum in the city, not necessarily in our building, because the building may not have enough space. Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think it will be more prestigious if we use the art paintings to be displayed in museums or art galleries.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: That way, wealthy, upper-class people will get a chance to appreciate. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...said that beef-eating is the cause of cancer.
Mādhavānanda: We have good facility here for it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The clay is soft here?
Mādhavānanda: Well, usually they purchase clay, don't they? Bharadvāja's? Usually they purchase art clay in America.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Fuller's earth. That is wanted, Fuller's earth.
Prabhupāda: So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Purification of one's existence."
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process. Go on.
Prabhupāda: So therefore our test is, whether he's a bona fide guru, whether he's talking what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then he's guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all, finished. Why should we bother? This is the test. If he's speaking, repeating the same thing, what Kṛṣṇa said, then he's guru. If he's talking something else, then he's rascal. Immediately take it. If you know this art, how to detect the rascal and guru, the test is already there. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Guru will say "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." He'll never say that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. You simply surrender to me." To surrender to Kṛṣṇa means surrender to guru also. You'll learn it. So "Kṛṣṇa is now dead; now I have become Kṛṣṇa."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.
Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.
Prabhupāda: So the conclusion is that the observer must be something nonphysical. He's not actually part of that physical body at all. So that's actually basic in quantum mechanics. So we wanted to present that. Now this slide... There's another line of evidence here. It's the inspiration, and Śrīla Prabhupāda has said that intelligence is the form direction of Supersoul. So it's interesting, it's really striking to observe how various people create things in mathematics and science and art, like that. It's very striking. So we made two examples here. This one is a mathematician names Gauss. He lived in the nineteenth century, and his concern was to solve mathematical problems.
Indian man: Going back to this sense question, where do you think the scheme of art fits into Kṛṣṇa conscious life?
Prabhupāda: Art?
Indian man: Yes, like painting, or music, or literature, poetry, like that. Because the problem is that they, if one devotes oneself to these things, they are full-time things, they take all your energy and time. And so...
Prabhupāda: Devotion means to engage your energy and time for Kṛṣṇa. Anyway you do that, that is utilized. Sarvopādhi-vinir... tat-paratvena. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). So if you can serve Kṛṣṇa by your hand, by painting about Kṛṣṇa, that is service. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you hear the chanting, that is also service. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu, about Lord Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of pleasure, ānandamayo 'byāsāt. So these things are producing ānanda. If it is in connection with Kṛṣṇa, then it is service. (aside:) So, Pālikā, you can take these fruits, cut into pieces and distribute it.
Guest (3): But how do I know that I am thinking properly?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?
Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.
Prabhupāda: Not proper leader. What is this building?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the, ah...
Rāmeśvara: Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Metropolitan Museum of Art. Very famous art museum.
Prabhupāda: Saw fireworks in Washington.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's the Empire State Building, Prabhupāda, straight ahead.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: I think one day our art paintings will also be in these museums. Because our artists are becoming as expert as anyone.
Prabhupāda: Must be.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, I had him in L.A. painting by brush.
Prabhupāda: What is this building?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't recognize it. Oh, the Fritt Collection, it's an art museum. This whole street is full of art museums.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one gentleman named Fritt.
Rāmeśvara: This taxi driver is saying Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Our Jayānanda was driving taxi and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and one day (laughter) he brought to me five thousand dollars.
Mr. Kallman: Very quick.
Prabhupāda: In this way, they become very, very big. They know how to use this art, these Marwaris. If you are going in India, you'll see Marwaris are very quickly, they will come. They know how to do business.
Mr. Kallman: Volume.
rabhupāda: If they are selling, you can sell these pictures.
Rāmeśvara: I think they will sell. (break) ...popular is that at colleges they like to have art shows come where they display the paintings and then they move on to another college. So we can do that with some of our art paintings also. They will give us one hall just to hang the paintings for some time.
Prabhupāda: So many trees have come. (break) ...from stone there is grass.
Prabhupāda: In Bengali it is called pare mukhe jhalma(?). Somebody says "Oh, it is very hot!" "Oh, it is very hot!" (laughter) He did not taste, but the other man says "Oh, it is very hot!" So he says "Oh, it is very hot!" Pare mukhe jhalma.
Rāmeśvara: The city pays these artists hundreds of thousands of dollars to make these forms. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...it is constructed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Metropolitan Museum of Art extension.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)
Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.
Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)
Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...
Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.
Prabhupāda: "Afro-American Art." What is this?
Hṛdayānanda: I think it means art by American black persons.
Rāmeśvara: Afro-American means people with dark-skinned bodies, they have painted these paintings.
Rāmeśvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art.
Prabhupāda: Afro-American, why not Indo-American?
Bali-mardana: There is an Indian exhibition at a different museum right now. This museum also has Indian exhibitions sometimes.
Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.
Prabhupāda: Actually that is.... Dancing? Singing? What is this nonsense? For a respectable family? It is meant for the low-class professional. Pay them, they will dance. Or go to some prostitute. She will dance. So he said that "We have got some taste for dancing, but not that our family members should do that. We pay for that outside." So this art.... And among the theatrical, Girish Chandra Ghosh could not get a single response from any respectable family. Then he had to seek some young girl from the prostitute class. They became later on famous artists, Kusumakali Dāsī, this Dāsī.... Nowadays it has become a fashion that aristocratic family should join this cinema and spoil their character. Otherwise it was meant for the.... No respectable man.... You find the Bhāgavata description, especially for the brāhmaṇas, the professional who would come. They'll take their reward.
Prabhupāda: Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed. Who will pay them? Hayagriva told me. He's not getting any job. There is another, Mr., Dr. Henderson. He's also not getting any job. He's selling insurance. And Bon Mahārāja, his institute is suffering from the very beginning till now, simply begging, begging and paying, paying the professor. No student. First of all he started Vaiṣṇava philosophy, so doctorate, Ph.D. So especially in India, who is going to take Ph.D. in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and starve? So this is failure. It is already failure, but he is persistent.
Prabhupāda: Once Sarasvatī said that "We have no sex with woman." (laughter) So, innocent, she does not know. That is, if they are kept separate, they remain innocent. And they are taught that all women should be addressed as mother. Whatever self-control. And female children should be taught how to become faithful to the husband, and to learn the arts of cooking, arts of painting—that should be their subject matter.
Jyotirmāyī: Painting?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixty-four arts, Rādhārāṇī did. Then She could control Kṛṣṇa.
Jyotirmāyī: So after they have learned all the academics, reading, writing, all these.
Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.
Bhagavān: The boys, they should learn how also to cook?
Prabhupāda: Huh? I never said that. Why you are bringing that question? I said the girls should be. Cooking is not boy's business. But cooking is not a very difficult art. If they want, the boys can... (coughs) There are so many, in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta sindhu it is stated, how Rādhārāṇī was qualified. So these things should be taught to the girls. If the girls are taught to give service to the husband to the greatest satisfaction, there will be no disagreement.
Guest (5): Don't say "mythology," I mean to say, my meaning was that they are distorting all our religious... They are making films, putting something, unusual things and cheap things. We can reform them and bring...
Prabhupāda: No, unless (indistinct) it will not to the art.
Guest (5): You can bring these (indistinct) into the art.
Prabhupāda: No, that you can use your art.
Guest (7): Very well, she has done.
Prabhupāda: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Kṛṣṇa's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Kṛṣṇa is saying, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Kṛṣṇa is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto.
Prabhupāda: That is not advancement.
Hari-śauri: They can't see any use for philosophy and fine arts any more.
Prabhupāda: Because they do not know what is soul. They do not know what is missing. Why the body is useless. They do not cultivate... The most important thing they do not cultivate. This man was so important one second before. Now the whole body is useless. It has to be thrown away. They do not give attention even to this. How he becomes... Second before he was Mr. Churchill or Mr. such and such, very important man. All men showing respect. And now he is useless. If somebody kicks on his face nobody will say. Out of sentiment they protest, but the man will not protest.
Devotee: And if she's not trained up.
Prabhupāda: She must be trained up. Just like Rādhārāṇī, She was trained up in sixty-four arts. Do you think to captivate Kṛṣṇa is easy thing? How much qualified She must have been so that Kṛṣṇa was attracted. (loud laughing in background) What is this?
Indian man (3): Laughing is also exercise.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. Because there is no guarantee. Suppose you are learning some art to serve Kṛṣṇa. In the meantime if death takes place...
Hari-śauri: Then no service.
Prabhupāda: Then if you could not learn the art, at the same time you miss Kṛṣṇa's service. So that is not our principle. We want to serve Kṛṣṇa, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. Whatever work you already expert, you do that. Just like he is doing. Whatever he knows, he is giving service. He's not going for sewing cloth. Because he does not know that. Why should he waste time? He knows this art, let him do. That is service. Whatever you know, Kṛṣṇa can accept any service. Kṛṣṇa is not one-sided. Because He is everything, so he can accept every service, anything. That is stated, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya.
Devotee: Long time ago you wrote a letter to Jadurāṇī to do that. Jadurāṇī, she wants to do service.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I thought that when she first came I saw that here she has got a little tendency for painting. So I engaged immediately, that you go on painting, whatever you can. So in the beginning she was not good painter. But still I said, "Anyway, you paint Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda. And whatever you paint, it is accepted." It is not the art, but it is the service.
Haṁsadūta: I've written him that Prabhupāda suggested he might come and do it.
Prabhupāda: He knows the art, how to do it. (break) ...unique, American. What is this American? I could not reach. (?) (break) ...conditioner, to keep the air conditioner. There was (indistinct).
Haṁsadūta: In some temples which are built like this with a courtyard, they put a screen over the top so that the birds don't come in. Can we do that or is that because...
Prabhupāda: No, monkeys.
Devotee (4): The devotees staying here, living here, they may make some pottery, set of potter's wheel, make clay pots.
Prabhupāda: What? What you'll use, pots? Here pottery is very cheap. We are not for arts. We are simply bare necessities of life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (7): Tirupati, they have these Veṅkateśvarams, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and blowing on the loud speaker every day. One... You can hear for miles. So we can also do some Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Malhotra: You know one thing I have found that there is spotless cleanliness in the centers. Whereas in our temples here in India, even when we go to Hardwar and Hrishikesh and all these, the temples, the outer cleanliness, not proper emphasis is given by the management.
Prabhupāda: I stress on this cleanliness very much. If they keep unclean, I chastise them like anything. (laughing) They have learned this art. I always say, "Cleanliness is next to godliness."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Girirāja: Billiards?
Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather. And they were feasting, first-class food. In this way spending, spending, spending... And then prostitute, aristocracy. In this way one property and one property lost, everything. At last I saw him going by rickshaw. One day it was raining, and I saw that he was sitting in a rickshaw, and no friend asked him that, "Haren Babu, why you are...? You come to my car," so many. And he was friendly to so many zamindars, kings, and very intimate with... But they lost of everything, and nobody cares. His sons, they are of our age. I do not know whether living or not. But most probably they are not living. They became professional singers, coming of such aristocratic father. His father, that Mr. R. N. Singh, was a very good singer. That also was another aristocratic that aristocrat family—art, some art: painter, singer, poets. Just like Rabindranath Tagore.
Dr. Patel: No, he did only on the Western thought.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Western philosophy... We have learned this art, manufacturing. Just like Vinoba Bhave's has proposed, "I want mukti not in the traditional way." He'll manufacture his own way. This is his intelligence after eighty-two years or eighty-one years. "Not in the traditional, not in the religious way." Just see. He's still hovering in darkness, and he's going to get mukti. This is the position.
Devotee: Chipped rice.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakāra. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Upadrutāḥ, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvaneśvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?
Hari-śauri: It's described here. It says, "Kuvera gave Him a pot for begging alms, and mother Bhagavati, the wife of Lord Śiva and most chaste mother of the entire universe, gave Him His first alms."
Prabhupāda: Bhikṣa-mātā. Bhikṣa means giving alms. At least every woman becomes a bhikṣa-mātā, alms-giving mother. This is system. My mother was bhikṣa-mātā to one brāhmaṇa. He is the son of our priest. Family priest, family guru, vipra-mātā, still in Hindu family, the system is still going on, brāhmaṇa visiting daily, informing, "Today is this tithi. The duty is this, the sunrise at this time is..." This is brāhmaṇa's duty, to go to the neighboring householders, and whatever they give, take. That is brāhmaṇa's art. At the same time, they keep some medicine. Every house there is some ailments. They'll give some medicine. Still. Now it is not so... In our childhood every day some brāhmaṇa visitor would come. So I will take massage like yesterday, early.
Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.
Rāmeśvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kurukṣetra, and then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.
Rāmeśvara: Eight hours.
Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.
Kramaḥ means gradual evolution. So you have to take that gradual evolution. But it will be done if you remain with the associate. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. They are giving this opportunity. Come here in our association and learn the art. I have seen in Bombay. The other day I went to a gentleman's apartment. He is.... The gentleman is earning two thousand, and the wife is earning seven hundred. But they are living in an apartment of this size. Within this, there is bedroom, and there is kitchen, and there is toilet, and everything is there. And if we say people, "Please come here. Take a room like this and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they'll not come. They'll prefer to remain in that tiny apartment. Am I right or not? Manda-bhāgyā. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has declared, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. They are rotting or rotating within this universe in different species of life. But if by chance he becomes fortunate, then take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Rāmeśvara: This is something that has been constant for many hundreds of years, the idea that a man is learned when he is well-learned, when he is educated in many different fields-literature, art, music.
Prabhupāda: That does not mean the original culture will be lost. That is not culture.
Rāmeśvara: No. But this is their argument, that the standard in America is that you become learned in different fields: science, music, art, literature. But in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement we are isolating all these things and simply reading one set of literature-Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: And therefore our people cannot speak about art, music.
rabhupāda: Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād.
Rāmeśvara: It's like you say. It's a new culture. Our art paintings one day will be seen all over the world. Just like now they hang art paintings in all government buildings.
Prabhupāda: It was written for this purpose. People are suffering by their concocted culture, suffering. And Guru Mahārāja wanted this. Actually it is his mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But I am... I have tried sincerely. I am not qualified, but only qualification is that I tried to do the best.
Prabhupāda: No, in the Western country also. Western country, now this higher English, higher mathematics, higher philosophy is no student admission. Nobody's going. They're going to close.
Hari-śauri: Yeah. Philosophy and all the arts.
Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.
Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's plan.
Rāmeśvara: ...effect. By just your coming to America, the whole place is transformed. Sometimes we think that when you look at these dates that Lord Caitanya came to the world, it coincides with a period in the Western world called the Renaissance. During this period of the Renaissance there was the highest development of art and literature and so many other cultural things. So we sometimes wonder there must be some...
Prabhupāda: Does it mean that before that, the Europeans were uncivilized?
Rāmeśvara: They were, actually considered themselves to be in the Dark Ages. They call it the Dark Ages. And then, all of a sudden, there was what they call the Renaissance, where man's intelligence became greater, expanded. He became interested in finer things.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: So it seems all over the world there was a greater interest in education, in art, and in India at the time when Lord Caitanya appeared.
Hari-śauri: The church was its strongest as well in Europe at that time, religion, very strong.
Prabhupāda: Christ also went, came to India.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he has... He has remarked many important things for us also, especially in his autobiography. We are quoting some of his words saying that when he was young, in his childhood, he was very fascinated by works of art like reading literature, like works of Shakespeare and poets like Byron, Keats, and Shelley. He said he was very fascinated in his childhood.
Prabhupāda: No, he was a thoughtful man, undoubtedly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And our mathematician is very good. He's also got some good artistic ideas. He told me that he started some arts.
Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. He advertises sex for..., yoga for two. He has a special price that a couple can come and learn tantra-yoga in America. And then Guru Maharaj-ji, he married.
Prabhupāda: Tantra-yoga means they will have sex, and he will be able not to discharge. That is tantra-yoga. The woman likes a man who does not easily discharge. This is tantra-yoga. So he is teaching that art or science. They will prove their tantric success that while sex there is no discharge.
Yugadharma: Yes. I would like to do this in Laguna Beach on the highway.
Prabhupāda: And if you do this, it will be great service, great service. They can take Gaura-Nitāi at home. So let them offer vegetarian food to Gaura-Nitāi and then take it. If you can introduce home to home, it will be great service.
Yugadharma: Because it is a very arty community. They are very interested in art there and bogus impersonalism. There seems to be a lack of enthusiasm in the gṛhasthas in Laguna Beach.
Prabhupāda: No if they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra...
Ādi-keśava: They say, "We have art. We have science."
Prabhupāda: Whatever you may have, but you cannot answer the ultimate question. They have got also science, art. A dog can understand that a foreigner is coming, and he begins to bark, "Yow! Yow! Yow!" and the master understands that somebody unknown is coming. You have got that science, that from mile or some, some distant place you can understand that some unknown person is coming. But dog can understand. He has got this art. He is better intelligent than you. Everyone has got some particular. That does not mean there is brain. Brain means to understand the problem of life. That is brain.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. He wants sense gratification this way, that way, that way, that way. So He gives him facility: "All right." And all facility. He wants to become a tiger, "All fixed." Nails, jaws, fangs—"Become a tiger." Yantra. The body is yantra, perfect yantra. That is supplied by māyā. Māyā. Daiva-netreṇa. He wants this, to give up this body. This machine is dead. Now you simply think of a tiger, and you are carried to the womb of the tiger. And the mother gives the body of a tiger. He comes out, enjoys. This is transmigration. The art is so fine. (hammering sound) What is this sound?
Jayapatākā: The electric cable from the generator, they're putting clamps on the building.
Hari-śauri: And they can't supply the pilot either.
Prabhupāda: Yes. With pilot the body is there. And he knows the art, how to bite you instantly. He immediately injects his, that little fiber within the hole of the hair. Immediately
Pradyumna: Oh, that's how they do it. When there's a hair hole? They put it there.
Hari-śauri: Tapomaya's always down there.
Prabhupāda: This kitchen management is a great art. That attracts men. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saṁsāre, kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, swa-prasād. Give varieties of prasāda. That is required. That is the art.
Hari-śauri: We're going to need some very expert cooks for our Bombay center.
Prabhupāda: I asked Bhogilal. He sent, but they cancelled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing. I once arranged for Shantilal's brother, and they cancelled. The thing is there's an art of dealing with these servants. You have to know how to handle them. Otherwise... They have to be treated like the children in the family.
Prabhupāda: No, not... Treat them as master-servant tactfully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was there also?
Prabhupāda: Cooking means if you have no appetite, it will create appetite. That is cooking, not that simply some ghee and masalā and cook it. No. It is a great art.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you went to Hyderabad did you stay with Mr. Pithi again?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: What is that new style?
Rāmeśvara: Well, the cover art has changed a little so you can read the titles, and it fits in the series. And also the captions are on one side; the pictures are on the other side.
Prabhupāda: Part One. That is this...
Rādhā-vallabha: This is Naimiṣāraṇya.
Prabhupāda: And one who is learned scholar, then "śāstrī," "bhakti-śāstrī."
Harikeśa: In other words, you want "ārādhana-kovida" instead of "pūjā-kovida."
Prabhupāda: Hm. This is like Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science, like that. Ārādhana-kovida. A.K. (laughter) Instead of B.A., A.K. Make nice paper, nice script, and the titles should be written in handwriting so that he can frame it and keep it.
Hari-śauri: Sudāmā's men, they also know how to do that. They also know how to do mime. That Lohitākṣa used to do that.
Prabhupāda: That is the latest art. The same man can play in any country, and it is explained, different languages. How many men, they come?
Hari-śauri: I didn't see.
Prabhupāda: From local village?
Hari-śauri: Yes. It's very nice. Wonderful kīrtana. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. WHO. Geneva.
Prabhupāda: A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there, everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every... Let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is a city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. You don't take it as insignificant thing. Very important thing. I am talking of this Māyāpur. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya. Why He's stressing bhārata-bhūmi? Yes. It's a fact. Real knowledge is here, Bhagavad-gītā. Speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?
Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.
Gargamuni: Yeah, I did. I told him. Even your old Bhāgavatams, we looked in the back. One boy looked in the back where they have the check-outs, and they were heavily used for many years. At least thirty times they were taken out in last few years. The old Bhāgavatams. (break)
Prabhupāda: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement... Art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. If you have got Nārāyaṇa background, then what is the cause of being afraid?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.
Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "3) There will be a BBT budget meeting every week in L.A. at which all Press expenditures will be discussed and approved by Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, and a monthly financial statement detailing the Press expenditures will be sent to all the trustees."
Prabhupāda: This unnecessary expenditures like Sanskrit department and art department, this should be curtailed. We require money for Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Mr. Rajda: Instead of rejecting, it would be correct to say that we have locked it up.
Prabhupāda: That means we don't take any importance. But now, if you want to do something, then you maintain this institution rigidly, follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require many men. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient. You don't require millions of stars, twinkling. So let there be an institution, and it is open to everyone. There is no question of "secular" and particular.... Let them learn this art. That is wanted. Not blindly, but apply your consideration and take it after mature judgment. No, what is that? Everything is there. There is no difficulty. Why you are neglecting this important business of India? Do you think it is right?
Prabhupāda: That's all. Rākṣasa. (Hindi) Learn the art, how to kill Kṛṣṇa and read Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) Moghāśāḥ, finished. (Hindi) Mogha-karmāṇaḥ. (Hindi) Mogha-jñānāḥ. Vicetasaḥ. Why? Rākṣasa. (Hindi) Whether you are prepared to cooperate with me on this line? Are you ready?
Mr. Dwivedi: We also believe in unadulterated Gītā, (laughs) unadulterated Gītā.
Prabhupāda: This is the line of action. (Hindi) Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). Asaṁśaya. (Hindi) Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).
Prabhupāda: So this is good.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll use this print, then.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Of course, because they are paragraphs, I've also counted this. Otherwise, normally, there would be one line here. So this is better, eh? We're using better art paper, so now, with the reproduction, it will come out better. So this is your decision?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: I think you can work out.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Print there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: In America. The art pages?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, everything.
Rāmeśvara: Everything? It will be more expensive because in India they print on cheap paper. If we use the same cheap paper, they'll still have to pay more because it has to be shipped back to India. But I can check.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) So?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Without condition, kīrtana should go on. And that is the panacea of all troubles. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given, jāy sakal bipod, bhaktivinod bole, jakhon o-nām gāi. This is a fact. If you always continue kīrtana, there is no danger. You are above all danger. Our Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja knows very well. He has no danger. He's sticking to that New Vrindaban program, improving, very good example. They eat first-class, nutritious food, and in Philadelphia also.
Prabhupāda: As soon as they allow young girl to mix with young boys—finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This coeducation is very bad.
Prabhupāda: And in the Western countries it is openly allowed, dating. "Please learn this art." (pause) And if you keep woman chaste, then nice children will come, no hippies.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, just like that boy, Dapni, Dapni's(?) grandson. Nice boy.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, previously we painted in the art department... Just like Varāha lifted the earth, and the earth was a globe, and we showed also a globe of the earth. How does that relate to this? Previously, when we painted, we showed the earth a ball. So now the artists will be very confused. How it fell in the Garbha Ocean as a ball?
Yaśodānandana: It depends on what we mean by earth. The Western conception of earth is just five continents and a few oceans, but according to Bhāgavatam, earth means Jambūdvīpa, because earth is connected with Jambūdvīpa.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Puṣkara, he did the...
Puṣkara: I made the mess. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He'll do something wonderful in arts. Kṛṣṇa will be... No complaint. All right. Jaya.
Devotees: (obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Vedic planetarium.
Prabhupāda: And they know the art.
Upendra: Many years ago they sold one plastic ring like this as a toy, and it became a craze all over America. Everyone bought little ones and big ones, called hoop, Hula-hoop, and they played with it, one ring, plastic ring.
Prabhupāda: There are so many things. I saw. You have to know how to make people fool. This art you have to know. Then you can have money. "Moon walk."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lalitā, Viśākhā. Those are just, I think, temporary dresses to give an idea. Day dresses. Here is the Deity of Kṛṣṇa without clothing so you can see. Look at this material.
Prabhupāda: Indian art and American artist. I want this combination. It is coming. Gradually develop.
Bhāgavatāśraya: The result is good each time. It is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Lalitā-Viśākhā.
Prabhupāda: Gradually they are becoming very expert.
Prabhupāda: So he said for a man of your position he could not even say for sure. He said that definitely the hand of Kṛṣṇa would be involved. So like this, he seemed to have a very sober idea. And he was hopeful that the blue sapphire would have some beneficial effect, at least to relieve you to some degree. He thought that by now you should have noticed a little bit at least. (break) ...besides the gem, there is a good Ayurvedic physician. He can also relieve the effects. That they know the art if you can find the proper man. I inquired if there is a proper man in this district. He said he didn't know anyone in this area. He knows of a man in Delhi. I took his address, and I tried to contact him, but I have not yet contacted him. He was not available. However, we have contacted a man... We read the report to you the other night. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa read you when we were upstairs? He was suggesting the pearl and the oxidized gold and bark of Arjuna tree.
| Page Title: | Art (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Mayapur |
| Created: | 24 of Jul, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=155, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 155 |