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Argument (Conversations 1967 - 1972)

Expressions researched:
"Argumentum baculam" |"Argumentum baculum" |"Argumentum vaculam" |"Argumentum vaculum" |"argument" |"argument's" |"argumentative" |"argumentativeness" |"arguments" |"argumentum ad baculum"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: That's in the introduction to Srimad-Bhāgavatam. Yes, I remember that. All right. There's no sense in going over that. All right. What is the outcome of this now? Final outcome?

Prabhupāda: The outcome is that Sārvabhauma was impersonalist and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was Vaisnava. Then by argument, logic, and everything, that is shortly described here, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became a disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he became a great devotee. That is the outcome. And it was a great victory on the part of Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was known as the most stubborn scholar of logic of that time and he became a devotee. By Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's becoming a devotee of Lord Caitanya, practically He became victorious in His missionary activities because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was the learned scholar in the assembly of the King of Orissa. So the King of Orissa also became a devotee. And many other scholars and big men.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So that I am doing. That I am attempting. And with this mission, I have come to your country with the hope that if the American people take it very seriously, then it will be the greatest contribution to the world. So I have already published this, my magazines and my books, in this connection. So if people take advantage of this movement, try to understand these books, they will be benefited greatly. So that is the basic principle of my teaching. It is the most perfect humanitarian work. Try to understand. We invite anyone. And take it diligently, put your arguments, logic, understanding, and you will find it is sublime. That is the basic principle of my movement.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And nowadays in the courts, they use machines. The judges also cannot remember what has been argued between the parties. So they take this tape recorder and give judgement. Because the argument is going on for two days, three days, how much he can remember? And when he gives judgement he has to take consideration of all the arguments, then give his judgement. So this machine helps.

Mālatī: If somebody had a big dollar bill the judge would remember.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mālatī: If somebody gave the judge a big dollar bill he would remember.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. There is suggestion of the scientist that there the temperature is two hundred degree below zero. I have read some paper. So if it is a fact then how you can live? You feel uncomfortable even in the Arctic region within this planet. How you can go and stay there even for a few minutes where two hundred degree...

Reporter: Yes, that's an argument based on logic,...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: ...and given the information about the degrees... But obviously, they're going ahead with plans to do so, and you have a transition period, for instance, between the part of the moon that is in sunlight and the part that is darkness.

Prabhupāda: That I've already admitted, that by modern scientific method if you can change the condition of your present body then you can go. It may be possible, but that is very remote.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhāgavata says that for economic solution... religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there.

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: I told you that I do not expect that everyone will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. But if there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient to eradicate the darkness. You don't require many stars. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If one man understands perfectly what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, he can do tremendous benefit to the other people. So you are all intelligent boys and girls. You try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with all your reason or argument. But try to understand it seriously. Don't make it a farce. That is the object of life.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Another incident during Purī... Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a great devotee. So his younger brother, he was engaged in government service, Mahārāja Pratāparudra's service. But he was a karmi and a rich man. So he misappropriated some money for sense gratification from the treasury. So this was... And he had some, what is called, competition, or rivalry, between the king's son and himself. The king's son did not like him, so he was trying to put him in some difficulty. This man... His name is... He's Rāmānanda Rāya's brother. His name is there. I can find out. So he found out some fault with him and informed his father that "Your such and such person has doing like this. He has misappropriated the money. I paid him so much money for purchasing horse, and he has purchased horse less price. He was charged so much." "Oh," the king said, "Oh, how is that? He cannot do that. Realize that money." So he got some clue. So he said that "You must pay. This is not the right price. The state cannot accept at high price this kind of horses." So he said, "All right. I shall sell somewhere and repay the price." Then there was some argument. He said, "Why you have charged so much for this horse? This is not a very good horse." He said, "Yes, it is good horse. My horse does not look like this."

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with your all reason, arguments. It will not to be accepted blindly. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kaj, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just put into your judgement the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte paibe camatkāra: "And if you scrutinizingly judge over it, you'll find it is sublime." So we are putting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement not as a force, but to the judgement of the people. Let them judge. It is not a sectarian movement. Not any religious movement. It is a science. So we put this philosophy to your judgement, and you judge it scrutinizingly with your all intellects, and you'll find it sublime.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Therefore our principle is everyone should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should follow the footprints of great authorities. That is our business. The Vedic mantra says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you simply try to argue and try to approach the Absolute, it is very difficult, simply by argument and reasoning, because our arguments and reason are limited because our senses are imperfect. (break) So tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. And scriptures, there are different kinds of scriptures. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Philosophers, every philosopher has got a different opinion, and unless a philosopher defeats other philosopher, he cannot become a big philosopher. So therefore philosophical speculation also will not make a solution. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. So it is very secret. Then how to get that secret thing? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You simply follow great personalities, how they have achieved success.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything, any way. The whole idea is manāḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet. Mind should be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. Either you go through philosophy or through arguments or through chanting. Any way. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ (BG 6.47). Of all kinds of yogis. In the... You might have read it. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. I think Maharsi has translated this Bhagavad-gītā, and in the sixth chapter...? You have read it?

George Harrison: Oh, his translation of Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Sixth chapter, he's asking.

George Harrison: Yes. I haven't read all of it. Part of it.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, if that is your version, then you have to see who are much addicted to Kṛṣṇa directly. For argument's sake. That these people are twenty-four hours chanting Kṛṣṇa, and another person who has no, not a single word Kṛṣṇa, how he can become devotee of Kṛṣṇa? How he can become representative of Kṛṣṇa, who does not utter even the name of Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is authority accepted, therefore who are directly addicted to Kṛṣṇa, they are authorities. (Kīrtanas follow, George Harrison leading) (end)

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Guest (4): But I don't know what is God, but I know man within which God is present, a part of God is present.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. That means we are, I mean to say for argument's sake. If God is everything...

Guest (4): We are the parts of God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now parts of God, just like your finger is part of your body. Suppose if you wash your finger, does it mean you are taking bath whole body?

Guest (4): No, no, no, no. No.

Prabhupāda: Then how we can serve the whole by serving the part?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Then how we can serve the whole by serving the part?

Guest (4): Well, because it is a problem today, and right now, we country...

Prabhupāda: Your argument is that service of man is service of God. That is your point. I say that if service of man is service of God, then service of God is service of man. First of all you yes or no, you say it.

Guest (4): It is one and the same but because I don't know God...

Prabhupāda: Then we serve God. You serve men. That's all.

Guest (4): I don't know God. That's why... Which is present and which is a philosophy. That's why...

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Then we serve God. You serve men. That's all.

Guest (4): I don't know God. That's why... Which is present and which is a philosophy. That's why...

Prabhupāda: Now, philosophy,... Your argument is service of man is service of God.

Guest (4): It is not my argument. It is argument of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Now you are representing Ramakrishna. You are representing Ramakrishna. That's all. I take it.

Guest (4): Because I am also in doubt about... I want to know the truth.

Prabhupāda: The truth is... The example I have given you, that service of the body means service of the stomach. Service of the body does not mean service of the finger.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say, "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means with His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc. So Back to Godhead generally deals in two stages of understanding, the, to awaken the relationship and to train them. Although our aim is... That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange, but generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage. These politicians, these scientists, these philosophers, they have no advanced knowledge except the human being. That's all. Their ultimate goal is that if they can do something, humanitarian work, welfare work to the... The Vivekananda, or the Aurobindo, or this, what is called, the Russell, or Romain Roland, and so many, they are coming. And the yogis, they are trying to be self-satisfied by meditation. But nobody is concerned with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is concerned. This is the position of the world. So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, your... I have summarized that first of all you have come to inquire from us that our standard of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the standard of perfection of knowledge, then there is possibility of our talking. Otherwise simply waste of time. Why shall we waste our time? Our standard is Kṛṣṇa. If you are agreeable to accept the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then there is possibility. Just like here is a lawyer. He goes to the lawyer. He speaks, he pleads, on the standard of the lawbooks. If somebody comes, "No, no, I don't accept this," then there is no question of argument. Both the lawyers are arguing. The central point is the lawbook. So you must have a central point on which we shall talk. If you have no central point...

Guest (1): Central point of happiness is there now.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna. It is not a theoretical, whimsical...

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): If I would be permitted, I would very humbly submit that...

Prabhupāda: You may not. You have not to surrender, you may bring some argument, but where I am preaching, they are surrendering.

Guest (1): You are doing a very wonderful work, there is no doubt about it, but the thing is that...

Prabhupāda: But you do not like that wonderful work.

Guest (1): ...judging duty of what we are doing, this is somebody else and not we ourself.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: You are not on the ātmā stage; I am not in the ātmā stage. You are in the bodily stage.

Guest (5): Both, body and soul, together...

Prabhupāda: Then if you are in the ātmā stage, then you have no argument with me. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Guest (5): But argument, you have admitted that...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no argument. That will stop. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

Guest (5): It is on arguments get down...

Prabhupāda: No. If you are... Just see. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that:

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No. If you are... Just see. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that:

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

If you are in the spiritual platform, then you will see a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, a caṇḍāla, a elephant—they are in the same stage. So there is no argument because he sees a dog and the learned brāhmaṇa, the same position.

Guest (3): That is the correct position.

Prabhupāda: That is correct position. But if you find that "Swamiji is not on the standard," that means you are not in the posit..., sama-darśinaḥ even.

Guest (3): You mean if a person commits a murder, a sinner...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very high stage. That is very high stage, sama-darśinaḥ.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Guest: What about the argument, not (indistinct), but India we see that every great saint personality has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, even Mahatma Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no.

Guest: He was also taking his...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't say like that. Surrender of Kṛṣṇa is different. Then you have to understand what is surrender. Mahatma never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He surrendered to yourself; therefore you killed him. (Indian laughs) He surrendered to his countrymen, and his countrymen killed him. He was working for his countrymen. That's all. He never worked for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: But the Gītā was always with him.

Prabhupāda: But, but, no but. You see from the action.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Handloom. And there was very good business. So many charkas and that handloom was sold in the shops because everyone was purchasing and purchasing. And they were stacked and thrown away some time after. So... Because Mahatma Gandhi asked, everyone did. You see? So he also asked our maṭha people that "Are you spinning a charka?" They said, "No, sir." "Then I am not going." He refused the invitation. Does it mean he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa? He surrendered to charka. That's all. (laughter) And if you say, "Charka is also Kṛṣṇa," oh, there will be no more argument. (laughter)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So suppose we accept such statement without any argument. That is the way of Vedic understanding. Vedic understanding means you have to accept whatever is stated in the Vedas without any argument.

Prof. Kotovsky: So forget about Vedas. Our approach is we don't believe in anything without argument. We can believe only on anything based on argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that...

Prof. Kotovsky: Here is the basic...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is allowed.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: That is allowed. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34), paripraśnena sevayā.Paripraṣna, argument, is allowed, but not with a challenging spirit. With a spirit to rightly understand. Praṇipātena paripraśnena. That... Argument is not denied. But so far Vedic statements are there, they are infallible, infallible, and the followers of the Vedas, they accept in that way. For example, just like cow dung.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas. So my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Vedas, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa. There are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statement is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know. The Vedas are known as Śrutis.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Try once more. You are right. And also nobody would believe in anything without argument.

Prabhupāda: No, arguments are allowed.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, arguments. Nobody would believe because it was written in this or other script. Evidence, evidence and evidence has to be given to believe. And may I put one question to you? Have you many branches of your society everywhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: Where is your main center, and where are the branches?

Prabhupāda: Main center...

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got already many books. You have not seen?

Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. I have almost all of your printed, but I'm trying to (indistinct)... Ramakrishna, they have big library and bookstore, and this is where goes most of their income. I was wondering. And many..., they have so many scholars for this movement because they are for a variety of religions. And one argument I always receive from some teacher, they say this movement insists on the chanting and they are not trying to open all the other doors for other religions. And I have no answer to them.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Mohsin Hassan: They tell me that..., the Ramakrishna Mission, they offer all kinds variety of books about every religion.

Prabhupāda: We have got varieties of books.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: So you wouldn't accept the prime mover either?

Dr. Weir: Well, it's not an argument, it's a postulate. I don't accept it. I mean, you have to accept it if you're going to... You know the (indistinct), so to speak. You can't have it half way.

Prabhupāda: This word positive and negative. Just like the sun—the backside is the negative and the front side is the positive, light and darkness.

Dr. Weir: Well the sun doesn't have a backside of darkness. It's light all round.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So far I remember, I was also a student of philosophy, Dr. Urquhart, he said the philosophy is science of sciences. The science, there, I mean theory, begins from philosophy. Philosophy is the science of sciences. But according to Vedic verses, a philosopher is not a philosopher if he has not a different opinion from another philosopher, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Therefore, through the philosopher you cannot come to the right conclusion. Tarkeṇa aprāptaś ca. If you simply go on arguing that will also not help you. If you simply read scriptures that will also not help you. Because there are different scriptures. Bible is different from Vedas and Vedas is different from Koran. So tarka... by argument you cannot come to the conclusion, by simply reading scriptures you cannot come to the conclusion. By following the philosophers you cannot come to the conclusion. Therefore the truth is very confidential. Dharmasyārtha... guhyam. It is kept very confidential. Then how to have it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You have to follow the great personalities who have actually realized God. That is the conclusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: It's is easier for them though. It's easier for the simple person because he doesn't have all these mental, complicated doubts and, you know, arguments with himself.

Mensa Member: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: It's said that as one progresses more in spiritual life he becomes simpler and more innocent, but in the beginning he may have had to comprehend it on some verbal level in order to (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I often used say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of. Whereas complicated things he may find quite easy.

Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So we have to go down there now...

Mensa Member: (indistinct) great argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall talk more...

Dr. Weir: Well, I've enjoyed it very much. It was very kind of you. Where are you going on Wednesday? Where are you going?

Prabhupāda: I'm going to Mombassa.

Dr. Weir: Really. That should be interesting. One of my greatest pleasures was to be able to entertain the Dalai Llama's secretary in the luncheon hall in the (indistinct) just near here.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is easy. It is easy. Suppose I say, you say that "I have never seen Lalaji," and if I say, "Here is Lalaji. Why don't you see?" and if he accepts, that is... That's all right. What is the difficulty? If you say, "No, I cannot believe you. I don't think that he is Lalaji. Lalaji, why he is walking on the street? He must be in a big, nice car." But if you put all this argument, then it is very difficult for you. But if you believe me that "Here is Lalaji," then the matter is very simple.

Reporter: The question is faith versus the...

Prabhupāda: It is not faith. It is not Lala... When I speak "Here is Lalaji," it is not faith. It is fact.

Reporter: I guess because you have...

Prabhupāda: But you don't believe me.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Vasudeva, you just, you can read the whole thing. It is imagination. Tattva... (break) ...imagine yourself, that "My lover will be like this, like this, like that." In this way he will reach to the reality. Do you think it is very nice argument?

Guest: (Hindi conversation with Prabhupāda) He is not a bhakta.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Huh?

Guest: He is not a bhakta, he is a scholar.

Prabhupāda: What is the nonsense scholar (laughter) if he does not know the truth? (Hindi) Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Scholar maybe superficially, but real knowledge is taken away by māyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (Hindi) māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If people hear him, then for good he will be lost in bewilderedness. (Hindi conversation) Why do you think you are sinner? (Hindi) Our theory is not that. Kṛṣṇa is fighting, He is inducing fight against irreligiosity.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul. So if... (end)

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Because he is not fit to get it, so God does not supply it. So we do not take anything as chance. We take everything as plan. But because God's omnipotency is so subtle, we cannot see how things happen. Therefore we say "It is a chance, chance of physical arrangement." Just like in the airport, as soon as I step on the door it becomes opened. It is not chance. A child will see it is a chance: "Oh, how it is? I wanted to go and the door is already open." He takes it a chance. That is poor fund of knowledge. There is arrangement, nice arrangement, electrical arrangement. So to a poor fund of knowledge it becomes a chance, and to the sober mind it is not chance; it is arranged by higher authority. Another opposite point is nobody wants to die. Why the chance of death comes? Nobody wants to die. If that argument is taken, necessity—I want to die, and the death comes—then it is applicable. But I do not want to die. Why death comes? There is no necessity of my death, but why the death comes? Then where this argument will be?

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is a question of chance and necessity. Nobody feels the necessity of death. Why death comes unless it is planned?

Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: Their argument is that physical necessity creates a chance, and we take advantage of the chance. But here there is no necessity. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants disease. Why these chances are coming to us without any necessity?

Śyāmasundara: If, for instance, in nature they saw a tree growing, they would say that by necessity this tree must die in order to replenish the soil so more trees can grow.

Prabhupāda: Then there is plan. As soon as you say that more trees can grow, that means there is plan. You cannot say chance.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi, these two brothers, Gaura and Nitāi. There are Pañca-tattva: Śrī Caitanya, Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, five tattvas. So rādhā kṛṣṇa bol bol, bolo re sobāi, ei śikhā diyā: "This is the teaching of Lord Caitanya." And he says, jay sakal bipod: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, the composer of this song, he says that "you get out of all kinds of dangers," jay sakal bipod, gāi bhaktivinod, jakhon o nām gāi. "If you simply take to chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." And at last he says, rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo sañge calo: "Please cooperate with Me," Lord Caitanya says, "and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ei mātra bhikhā: "I am asking all this. I am begging." So our mission is like that. The same thing. We are asking people without any argument or political purpose or social or... No. Simply we are asking that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Wherever we are opening our branches, it is our only business that we are requesting people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Just see how Kṛṣṇa's creation, wonderful creation. And they defy, "Oh, what nonsense they are." There is no brain in creating such nice flower, flavor? "It is automatic, nature, nature." What is this nature? Rascal. Nature means rascaldom. Nature. What do you mean by nature? Just see how foolish they are. They cannot explain what is this nature. Simply say. I'm simply sorry that the so-called institution education simply making people all fools and rascals. That is my grief only. I am therefore trying to give them some intelligence. The whole program is to create some fools and rascals, that's all. Any philosopher, any scientist comes, I can say that "You are simply creating fools and rascals because you are also fools and rascals." I can say, challenge. Then let us come to argument. "You are such a fool and rascal and you are creating fools and rascals, that's all. That is your business." And that is going on as the advancement of education.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact. We are Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā's sampradāya. So, Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā is giving. Just like last evening we were reading about Brahmā's thought. He is posing, "Yes, here is, You are God." Although He was child, "He appears to be a child, but You are God." That is Brahmā (indistinct). He is giving support on that point. So if you follow Brahmā then there is no question, here is God.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Here is the God. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nasti. (indistinct). "There is no more superior truth than Me, I am the origin of everthing." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything comes from Him. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so Absolute Truth is there, which is the original source of everything." So, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the original source of everything." The Vedānta says the Absolute Truth means the original source of everything. Brahmā confirms it and you must also understand (indistinct). So you must spread your conviction by your literature, by your argument, by your preaching, by facing opposing elements. That is the process. What do you think, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, in order to become very dear to Kṛṣṇa... Actually that is the position. So we must preach in that way—by our literature, by our magazine, by our books, by our speech, by our arrangements. Of course, very peacefully, we are not very (indistinct), becoming violent (indistinct). But by argument, by words, by our methods, by our preaching, we have to convince. So selected fifteen men, not twelve (indistinct). It may increase more. Now we have got very many centers, but the duty is very responsible. So as, so far the center is concerned, the local president is (indistinct) man. The GBC can supervise that things are going on. The first management is that each and every member in the temple is chanting sixteen rounds regularly and following the regulations, that's all. Otherwise we have no... That is our spiritual strength. That must be executed. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, such exalted personality, such advanced, still he is numerical counting even up to the point of his death.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's just the conditioning of the mind, the trouble of the mind.

Prabhupāda: That is different. That is different. Manodhara. Manodhara means those who are conditioned by the mind, their statement is not accepted according to our philosophy. Because he has no value.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Crazy.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: In other life may not, but he is associating at the present. That's a fact.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: When you first came, Śrīla Prabhupāda, a lot of people probably presented you arguments such as If you call the movement God consciousness you'll be more successful. If you not wear tilaka and do not shave your head and do not wear robes and do not go on saṅkīrtana, you will be more successful. And people still tell us things like this, that You tell us the philosophy, we like the philosophy, but why do you go on saṅkīrtana? So what were some of the arguments you presented to these type of people?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: This is the same argument, ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). You cut the mouth of the chicken because it eats, it is expensive, and keep the back side because it lays down egg. You see? Intelligent man said, I am getting every day one egg. So that side, the back side, is very good. But this side is expensive, eats. Cut it. So he does not know, he is such a foolish, that if I cut the head, then the egg-giving business will also stop. Similarly, if you accept this philosophy, then you must accept this also.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, that is difference...

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily, false argument. Even Jesus Christ ate meat, you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, our best, I have found that the best argument is, you practice. Proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I shall go? No.

Devotee: A few minutes, I think, 'cause they are still packing.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of these religions have produced a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of them. A person who is detatched from material life.

Jayādvaita: I was reading in the Bible...

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: You should insert articles. It is reality. It is not speculation. Nothing, our activity, is speculation or imaginary. Everything is fact. We should present in that way. Either picture or philosophy, anything. They are all facts. People may not take it as something imagination. That argument will be there. Just like here there is a picture, Dakṣa is with a goat head. But they may not take it as imagination. That is possible. It is fact.

Devotee (9): So the..., our business is to present it in such a way that people will...

Prabhupāda: Yes, people will understand it is reality, not sentiment or fictitious. Because they have been instructed by rascals that all these Vedic literatures, they are allegories. Or, how do they call it?

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Śyāmasundara: Where we went to that television show today, that was Fort Worth. That's another city. They have more slaughterhouses.

Guest (2): I had some arguments about this. Some people won't eat cow. They say, "It's not Indian cow, so we can eat it." (laughs) All kinds of intelligent arguments.

Prabhupāda: Indian people say like that?

Guest (2): Some of them, not all. It's not said, anybody. It's just argument of people that... Even Americans. People, they say, "We are not killing your sacred cow because your sacred cow is in your country." It was long ago, I remember. During lunch break we had some argument.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I say that I don't serve. That is not possible. That being our constitutional position then, just like my finger, it is serving, always, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that. The finger's business is to serve. As part and parcel of my body, the finger's business is to serve the whole body. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Our essential business is to serve God. How do you find this argument? Do you refute this argument?

Mrs. Keating: You serve and you share.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: You serve...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Page Title:Argument (Conversations 1967 - 1972)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:10 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=51, Let=0
No. of Quotes:51