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Argue (Conversations (1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"argue" |"argued" |"arguer" |"argues" |"arguing"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: argue or argued or argues or arguing or arguer not "may argue*"@ 5 not "might argue"@4

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: In South India there are very few Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa devotees. And what they have is from some Purāṇas, the marriage of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. They perform Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa kalyana, marriage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that bona fide, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: In the Brahma-vaivarta... So a court case appeared. One man had some property in the name of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities. So the court said, "You only have the quota for one family." So he argued that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa are not married; They are two separate families, so They should have double quota of land. So he won the case on that. But if somebody came from the south, he said, "No, They can be married also," he would have lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, there is..., you wrote...

Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...there's a ceremony where Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are, I think, married.

Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa I heard, that They were married by Brahmā in secret.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...lands are being distributed.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are big mūḍhas who are never convinced.

Dr. Patel: Like me. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, no, listen...

Dr. Patel: I will argue with you instead of.... Mahārāja, you see, I have.... Again we had a very great altercation within myself. I was a.... (break) I may tell you, I have studied the Vaiṣṇava's philosophy from various angles. The last two years I have been making a very deep study of it, and I am a student of this theologian philosophy. I think he is absolutely right, that complete surrendering to God by bhakti...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...you get complete jñāna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should never think that smṛti is an interpretation.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not inter... It is explanation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like sometimes the smārtas, they argue that if you quote smṛti, it is not as good as śruti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But smṛti... Just like the Māyāvādīs. They do not accept because their interpretation of Veda is different.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. So they say that smṛti is an interpretation.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept Bhagavad-gītā, many of them.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is our answer to such persons?

Prabhupāda: We have got our own ācāryas. If you don't accept, I don't accept you. That is my... What can be done?

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Hari-śauri: A person already has the position where he doesn't have to experience birth, death, old age, like that. So if they argue like that, "Why doesn't God give us that position where we can enjoy without God consciousness...?"

Prabhupāda: God has given, giving you the position that "You obey Me, and you get the position," but because you are rascal—you are not obeying—you are suffering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like a hog takes stool instead of sweetmeat. The hoggish mentality.

Prabhupāda: That is God's mercy that he wants to eat stool, and God has given you, "All right, you eat stool. Take this body."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not that God is not offering him sweetmeats, but the rascal won't eat them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got such a body that he does not relish sweetmeat.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: If you don't know, why say anything?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to deal with these rascals. The other day one professor came to see me from Khabudvīpa(?). He was very submissive, but still, he would argue like this, that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa is making me to do, I am doing." So I told him, "Kṛṣṇa is asking you to surrender. Why don't you surrender?" "No, when He will will, I shall surrender."

Acyutānanda: "He should make me..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see.

Acyutānanda: There's a story I tell.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Acyutānanda: So there was a man. "Oh, when he wills me to surrender, I'll surrender, and..."

Prabhupāda: But He is directly saying, "You surrender." Still, He has to will? Just see the argument.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, they say, "Why you gave me birth?" They say like that.

Sudāmā: Cursing almost. Almost.

Guru-kṛpā: Also the atheistic people sometimes argue, "What does your Kṛṣṇa do for the suffering people?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guru-kṛpā: "What does He do? Why doesn't He come down and help the poor people? They are suffering."

Acyutānanda: I tell them there's...

Guru-kṛpā: "Why doesn't He come and help them?"

Acyutānanda: In Andhra, I said, "There's so much land where they're growing tobacco. You could grow food." But in the Gītā, it says, "Once coming there, he never returns."

Prabhupāda: But if he likes, he can return.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Tuwā o pada baraṇe(?) This is required.

Acyutānanda: Serving the root.

Prabhupāda: "My only responsibility is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa"—then this very conception will save you.

Rāmeśvara: I spoke with one man who argued that "Kṛṣṇa is very cruel because He knows everything past, present and future, so He knew that we would all fall down from the spiritual sky, but still, He gave us the independence to fall down."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: "Even though He knew we would fall, because He knows everything..."

Acyutānanda: That's a common question.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish question. Unless you have got independence, what is your life? Then you are dead stone. You want to become a dead stone? That is not Kṛṣṇa's concern. Kṛṣṇa does not give such perfection, that you become a dead stone.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we agree to spread communism all over the world, and we'll give everyone equal rights.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So equal rights, why not to the animals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're not as important, they'll argue. They'll say that they're not as important. They're not so intelligent. They're just animals.

Prabhupāda: Animals, but it appears to me that there are many men like animals, so why you are giving facility to them?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they can be elevated to the point of being men again.

Prabhupāda: So elevate them to the right point. Elevate them. You are elevating them only on the platform of eating, sleeping, mating. That is there in the animal. So you have to talk this philosophy. Our philosophy is that expanded—not only human being but animals also. Our philosophy is, if there is one lizard in your room, I should see that he is not starving. This is our philosophy. Not only human being but animals, even an insect. We supply little sugar in the holes of the ant. That is our philosophy. We take any living being is the..., has the same propensity for eating, sleeping. So your economic problem is that "Supply sufficient eating, sleeping." So why not these animals? We have to speak on that platform, that our philosophy is so perfect that we do not neglect even an ant. Make this philosophy. "Why you are limiting within a country or within the human society? Expand it."

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right thing.

Revatīnandana: But why do they not follow if He is perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune.

Revatīnandana: They argue like that.

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune. Just like father says, "Child do this," but he does not do. Father says, "Don't touch fire;" he touches, so he'll suffer.

Madhudviṣa: They can also say that about their leader. They can say that according to Marx, if everyone followed Marx purely, then the Communist system would be running on...

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the purity?

Madhudviṣa: Well, the pure Communist philosophy.

Prabhupāda: What is that pure Communist philosophy? State. We state, "This is our philosophy." What is the Marx philosophy?

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And advertise publicly: "Topless, bottomless women are available here. Come here. School is open at ten o'clock at night. It goes on up to four." I have seen it. This is civilization, nightclub and topless, bottomless shop.

Rāmeśvara: The women argue, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they can be given.... If they are given a good chance, they can make equal contribution in business, in science. So they are demanding equal rights, equal employment.

Prabhupāda: So why.... Why not equal rights that you stop producing children like the man? The man does not produce. Why you are obliged to produce?

Rāmeśvara: That is their special qualification.

Prabhupāda: That is.... Similarly, everything is special. You are a different entity. You must have different engagements. That is your perfection.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Lokanātha: That means, then, woman is more potent than...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. The Āyur-vedic formula is that when there is discharge, woman's discharge, more, means girl, and man's discharge, more, means boy. This is physiological.

Rāmeśvara: The women argue that they are stronger than the men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are stronger than the man, that when there is fight, the man goes; you do not go. You are so strong. You are simply ravished in the absence of your husband. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Now.... The women are joining the Army in America now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen a police in London. So I told that "If I catch your hand and give you a slap, where is your police?" (laughter) "I am old man. If I catch your hand and give you a slap, what police action will be there?"

Pañca-draviḍa: Prabhupāda, who is that prostitute the gopīs refer to...?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: In the Kṛṣṇa book the gopīs say that "The great prostitute," I forget the name, "Pimba," or something, "says that..."

Prabhupāda: Kubjā, Kubjā, Kubjā.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by protection?

Devotee (2): Well, I mean like Arjuna was arguing that...

Prabhupāda: That was also.... That was condemned.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, that argument was not accepted.

Prabhupāda: That argument was not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (2): But I mean, then how...

Prabhupāda: He proved that "You are a rascal. One who puts this argument, he's a rascal."

Akṣayānanda: That was just an excuse to avoid fighting.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa clearly chastised him that "You are talking like a fool." Eh? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān: (BG 2.11) "Talking like a very learned man, but you are a fool. No learned man speaks like that." Why they have kept this nice road within this forest? What is the idea?

Hari-śauri: There's some village on the other side?

Akṣayānanda: I don't know.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yaśodānandana: "With the family planning program the worry is decreasing."

Prabhupāda: Decreasing?

Yaśodānandana: They will argue like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Family planning, why family planning? Family planning is already there that don't marry. Why don't you accept this? Don't have sex. This is real family planning.

Jayādvaita: "That is horrible."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: "It is horrible."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Might as well kill ourselves."

Prabhupāda: Not horrible. It is horrible for a particular person. Otherwise.... (break) Karma-bandhana. What is this?

Lokanātha: They are flowers. These are the flowers.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The context is that if you cannot separate the living force, or the soul, from the body, then you are on the same position as the dog is thinking, "I am the body. I am a big dog. I can bark very loudly." And he's showing his capacity. And if we are talking big, big assembly, and in the same conception of life, that "I am this body," then where is difference?

Mike Barron: I cannot argue against that.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. That is the point. We have to understand this point. If we want to become more than the dog, you must find out in which sense we are more than the dog. That sense is understanding.... That is.... In Sanskrit word it is said, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this matter." That is knowledge. Actually knowledge begins from that point, that "I am not this body." Just like a big 747 plane is running on, but there is the intelligent pilot. If somebody says, "There is no pilot. It is flying automatically. The machine is supported," is it a correct?

Mike Barron: No. Does Kṛṣṇa consciousness make you aware of this, though?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one understands that this big machine is useless without the pilot. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs will argue that "I am not ready to hear this yet."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs will argue, "I am not ready to hear this yet." Many people, they come and they hear this philosophy, they say, "Very nice. But I am not ready for it yet."

Prabhupāda: But why you have come here, to hear Bhagavad-gītā? Why you have come?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Generally, they come to take nice prasādam.

Prabhupāda: All right, that is also kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasādam means we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa; then it is prasādam. So you have not come, but you have to come to take prasādam. This, it has got connection with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore we welcome you that at least for eating, you are coming to Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, by eating only. Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to be understood, but we are giving you facility to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam so that one day you can understand this movement. This is the policy. Actually, that is the policy. We are not poor-feeding. That is not our philosophy. Like Vivekananda. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. No, we are not after that. We are giving you prasādam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating, eating, eating, you one day will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, similarly, if somehow or other one can sell one book to a person it is good for him. Don't take how he is selling, but he's giving the book to that person and he's paying something and that is good. But big moralist, they cannot understand. They'll see, "Why the father has spoken lie to his son. He's not a good father." They'll mistake. Father is always friend. Father cannot be enemy. But for the benefit of the rascal child sometimes he has to say like that. That "If you take the medicine I'll give you cake." So those who are mundane moralist, they cannot understand this thing, because they are mundane platform. The another example is that Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. He was asked by Kṛṣṇa that "You speak lie to Dronācārya that 'Your son is dead.' " Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja refused. For this he had to see hell. He was more moralist than Kṛṣṇa. For this moral activity he had to visit hell. This philosophy cannot be understood by neophyte devotees. Our purpose is why we are pushing so much this sales of books. Because our missionary activities will be very widely known. That we want. Somehow or other let him purchase a book. That is our mission. There is no question of transgressing moral principles. Arjuna. Arjuna was arguing with Kṛṣṇa that this killing of my relatives, it is horrible, abominable. Better I beg and maintain myself than I kill my relatives and become a king. Did he not say? That is ordinary man's argument. But as Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja refused to speak lie, (break) Arjuna in spite of his conviction that it is sinful to kill my relatives, he still agreed to kill.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): These people cannot be converted.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. The dog cannot be converted. But we have to do it with stick. (break) ...that a dead child can be brought scientifically into life and he will grow, and still, they'll argue. So what is the use of argument with these rascals? When they are caught up, that "Do this," "Yes, we shall do in the future," and "What about the present?" there is no answer.

Hari-śauri: Everywhere we see millions and millions of different types of bodies are all growing, there's living force there, but still, they haven't been able to find it, and it's there all the..., everywhere, surrounding them, so what kind of scientists?

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: In relative terms.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is necessity, what is the advancement? There is dull matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Apareyam. The dull matter is inferior energy. And the anya-prakṛti, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho, the living entities, they have got necessities. Dull matter, there are no necessities. The more one is dull, his necessities are less. And those who are advanced, his necessities begin.

Hari-śauri: Well, they use.... They argue that, say like in India, where there's no great material development...

Prabhupāda: Then we shall judge the quality of necessity. That is another thing. First of all necessities, then quality.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all we have to understand that one who has no necessity, he's in the lowest status. One who has got necessity, he is in higher status.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then higher, higher, higher, higher—where's the higher status? When you necessitate Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was Satsvarūpa's question, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's question.

Prabhupāda: No, this is the answer. Kṛṣṇa's position is always the same. He knows past, present and future.

Rāmeśvara: This is Karandhara's problem, this point of philosophy. He cannot understand it. His argument is that he is having so much trouble due to his sense attraction. And Kṛṣṇa gave him the sense attraction, or Kṛṣṇa gave him senses; now he is having trouble controlling his senses. But he argues that Kṛṣṇa knows everything, so Kṛṣṇa knew that he would have trouble controlling his senses; therefore why did Kṛṣṇa give him senses?

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Rāmeśvara: He says Kṛṣṇa is playing games.

Prabhupāda: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...his position is very bad...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...compared to the innocent person, ignorant person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Rāmeśvara: But then again he argues like this, he says, "The living entity cannot do anything without the sanction of God. So I am desiring certain sinful activities, but why is Kṛṣṇa sanctioning it?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not sanction.

Rāmeśvara: Then how is it going on?

Prabhupāda: But you insist, so Kṛṣṇa, in disgust, says, "All right, do at your own risk. You rascal. You will not hear Me." That's all. I have given this example many times, that my son wanted to touch the table fan. Did I say it?

Rāmeśvara: I never heard it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so, when he was only two years old, so the table fan was running, and the child, he wants to touch it. So I am: "No, don't touch." So, and he was.... So there was another friend, he was a doctor. He said that "Slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it. So he touched, "Tung." (sound imitation) Then I said, "Touch again?" "No!" (laughter) So it is like that.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also, what is called, argumentative. Somebody says it is arbitrary arrangement.

Reporter: Hm. Laboratory.

Prabhupāda: Of course, we do not go into the details of this. My question is that why Sunday first and Monday second? Nobody can apli..., replies.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda once also argued that the dust, the dirt that they brought back, it did not reflect any light, but the moon is always reflecting light. So it was a different substance than what must be on the moon surface.

Prabhupāda: Now, according to our Vedic scripture, Moon is one of the heavenly planets.

Reporter: Are there any other Vedic scriptures that you believe speak to a situation that is greatly misunderstood today besides this?

Prabhupāda: No. Vedic understanding means there is no different Vedic version.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: Americans.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say also. That you are fortunate. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be the best nation in the world. Simply you take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Indians would argue that "Just see. The Americans are not so religious, but they have good material wealth."

Prabhupāda: No. In America, Kṛṣṇa consciousness has developed. What you have done? Why don't you say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But our forefathers have done, and just see the mess we are in because of it.

Prabhupāda: Forefathers ate ghee, so lick up your hand. My forefathers ate ghee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you have is dalda now,

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why dalda? Your forefathers had ghee. You enjoy it now.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, if we introduce ghee in America, we'll be very famous. That will make us very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They say all matter goes through the stage of development and destruction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, this is to be answered, that this child, when he was born he was very small, lying on the lap of the mother. Now he's jumping. Now that body which was lying on the lap of the mother is no more existing. He has got another body which is jumping. But the mother knows that "It is my same child." Therefore the same soul is there; the body has changed.

Rāmeśvara: But they argue that there is no soul; it is simply the changing of matter.

Prabhupāda: The changing.... When the child is born dead, why he does not grow? (laughter) Therefore they are rascals.

Mahātmā: There was one boy in Berkeley, and he worked for a company that would record facts and figures, and he said every year the Navy would pay this company something like sixty thousand dollars and would give them their theories that they knew were wrong, and this company would supply false facts and figures to coincide with the theories—make up facts that would support their false theories.

Prabhupāda: What is that false theory?

Hṛdayānanda: They want to take money, so they say "We need so many things, you have to give us money from the government to buy new weapons," this, that, so they make up false things for money.

Prabhupāda: Befool.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? He was a devotee, that's all. He never said that "I am God."

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes devotees argue that "Dhruva Mahārāja, he had a material desire, and still he became perfect. So I can keep my material desires."

Prabhupāda: No, when he gave up material desires, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varān na yāce, "I don't want anything," then he became liberated. So long he had material desires, he was not liberated. When he refused to possess anything material, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varān na yāce, then he became liberated.

Hari-śauri: But say, like Dakṣa, he saw Lord Viṣṇu and he had a desire for sex.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Dakṣa. So he was still having sex desire, but he saw Lord Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri: So then someone could argue, use that as an argument for returning.

Prabhupāda: Seeing Viṣṇu is not liberation. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was present, so many people saw Him. Does it mean that everyone became liberated?

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes, you write in the Kṛṣṇa book that the demigods can come to this planet invisible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So, if ordinary man went to some other planet through his sputnik, would he be able to see the demigods?

Prabhupāda: No, why not? Some men arguing that.... Because he did not see, it does not mean there is no life. That they cannot say. Just like in the water we don't see. Superficially.

Hṛdayānanda: Yeah, if they take a sputnik...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: If they take a camera over the water, they won't see any life.

Rāmeśvara: Or over the fire, they will not see any life on the sun...

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: ...with their camera.

Hṛdayānanda: Even over the earth, you can't see any life. They took pictures of the earth.

Prabhupāda: That, that is their defect, that their eyes are defective. They cannot go there. That they will not accept. The camera which they manufactured, that is also defective. Because you have manufactured it. You are defective. Your senses are defective. Therefore, in the Vedic literature: "Don't try to see with your eyes, but try to see by ear, śruti. " Śāstra-cakṣuṣā. You should accept as your eyes the śāstras. Not your so-called eyes. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So sleeping is waste of time. Therefore spiritual advancement means minimizing sleeping. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About the Gosvāmīs' life it is said they conquered over nidrā-āhāra. If you eat extraordinarily, then you will sleep also extraordinarily. If you eat frugally, as much minimum required, then you can conquer over sleep. Eating, sleeping. Sleeping depends on eating. Atyāhāra. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). The people in the material world.... Atyāhāra means collecting more than necessity. One, somebody has got millions of dollars; still, he is working hard day and night to increase the bank balance. Why? You have got sufficient money; now you engage your life for spiritual advancement and take little food. God has given you enough. Why you are wasting your time in collecting money and eating more? That is misuse. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Āhāra means eating, and āhāra means collecting. So these are against bhakti principles. Collecting more than necessity or eating more than necessity. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Prayāsa, things which are not done very easily, I have to endeavor very, very hard, that kind of work should be avoided. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpaḥ, and talking nonsense. No use, you are talking together for hours, what is the use? Prajalpa, it is called prajalpa. And niyamāgrahaḥ, and, without any result, following the regulative principles—or not following the regulative principles. Niyama-agrahaḥ. Agrahaḥ means not to accept. That is also bad. That is bad, actually. And simply to see the regulative principles without any result, that is also bad. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Laulyam—greediness; jana-saṅgaś ca—and associating with unwanted men, jana-saṅgaḥ. We should not try to associate with nondevotees. You waste your time talking something. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati. By these six principles one is loser in the matter of devotional service. Āhāra required. Just like we are reading this Bhāgavatam; it is proper utilization of time. Similarly, if we take some newspaper, some statement of the politics, and talk and argue and waste time, there is no need of such thing. I think in our institution there is no newspaper. That is one advantage. In the Western countries, newspaper is very popular thing, a huge bundle of newspaper. Although he'll not read, the newspapermen supplies huge bundle of newspaper. And wasting of paper, printing, unnecessarily cutting the trees, for running on the paper mill. This is sinful activity. They are not reading so many nonsense books and newspapers, but paper is required, there is demand. So paper mill requires cutting of the trees unnecessarily.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I have a question, if it's all right. This is, Prahlāda is instructing his schoolmates, but his schoolmates, I think they would argue, "That's all right, but we are young now; let us enjoy. Then later on in life we shall take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education. What do you think?

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I always thought, I always thought: "Later, later, I will. Later, later." But now I'm sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, education, everywhere, all over the world, education is given when one is young. That is the time. I think here in America there is adult education?

Hṛdayānanda: But not so much. Some. That's usually for making more money. Someone has a job and he wants further training to get a higher-paying job, but not so much for knowledge.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What is their argument?

Jayādvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that caste by birth.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact.

Jayādvaita: No.

Prabhupāda: The qualification.

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: We gave a class in a university, and the professor was an atheist. He didn't want us to speak, but he finally agreed we could speak. And after we'd spoken, he gave some argument against us. But he couldn't argue against us. His argument was for us.

Prabhupāda: What was that argument? (laughs)

Jayādvaita: He said that two fish are swimming in a tank, and one fish said to the other fish that there must be God because someone must be changing the water in the tank. So he was trying to ridicule that these fish are speculating something. But I just said to the students, "So this is a very good conversation. The fish is intelligent. There must be someone who is running the environment, nature." So he couldn't say anything against us, although he was trying to be a big atheist.

Prabhupāda: What was the point?

Jayādvaita: He was trying to show somehow that these foolish fish were speculating something just to make some story that would sound..., that this is a ridiculous thing to think. But it was a very sensible thing to think.

Prabhupāda: What is that sensible thing?

Jayādvaita: That the environment is being controlled by someone, not by us. So there is someone superior. So I just said that to his students, "So your professor is giving a good example."

Prabhupāda: In our favor.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?

Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.

Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?

Devotee: He's a sick doctor.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.

Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...

Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.

Devotee: Then how does he explain how so many devotees can live together peacefully and happily if there's no reciprocation of love? Materialists can't even live together with their wife for very long.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're simply interested in human flesh. They're not concerned about all the animal slaughter that's going on. They don't take objection to the animal slaughter, the animal flesh. But when it comes to the human flesh, because they think they can enjoy, then they take some concern.

Prabhupāda: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivore also. (break) ...Mahāprabhu said, asat eka strī-saṅgī, strī-saṅgī, those who are attached to woman, he's asat.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (3): The so-called intelligent people in this country, like the professors in universities, they sometimes argue that the progressive value of life is to search for knowledge, the quest of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is the ultimate knowledge, what is God. You do not know. You are still professing as professor, as learned scholar, but you do not know what is God. Also you write, "In God We Trust." What is this nonsense? Where is your professorship? You explain God. Suppose I am a layman. I am asking "Why you have written in the bill? Please let me know what is God." Do you know? Then where is your knowledge?

Devotee (3): But they say they are looking for it.

Prabhupāda: That means you are not in knowledge, and still you are a professor. You become a student like me. Why you are occupying the post of a professor? That means you are cheating. You are calling yourself as professor, the teacher, and you do not know? Give up this post; come to my position.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Niyataḥ. You should read Bhagavad-gītā so thoroughly for everything. That is good lawyer. Good lawyer means in the court, immediately give reference to the judge, "My Lordship, such and such law, under section...this is there." He's a good lawyer. Good lawyer means he immediately gives reference to the section on which he's talking. Immediately judgement is there. If there is previous authority and it is recorded in the lawbook, then he doesn't require to argue anymore, the evidence is there. Even in other court, if some judgement is there, they'll be accepted. This is the law. So a good lawyer means he gives references from different courts, the judgement makes easier. Instead of proceeding for a long time, he gives reference—"Here is the judgement, you see," and immediately...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

niyataḥ kuru karma tvaṁ
karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ
śarīra-yatrāpi ca te
na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ

"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to keep a set of men lazy, who cannot work. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone must work to his capacity. Prescribed duties. They accuse us that we are escaping. Huh? What is that? We do not escape. We are always busy.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Answer.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Desire for false prestige? First of all, ceto-darpana-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The heart is full of so many dirty things, and basically all of these revolve around the bodily concept of life—I think I'm this body. Therefore we're desiring honor, we don't like to be dishonored; and looking for so many gains, we don't like to lose something. So there are so many dualities that exist: respect and disrespect, honor and dishonor. So when you become purified, freed from the bodily concept of life by chanting, then naturally honor and dishonor, they are not very important; they are only in relationship to the body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now argue, whether you are satisfied with his answer. If not, say it. In this way, discuss. Are you satisfied with his answer?

Devotee (2): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Kulaśekhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it says that the Caitanya-caritāmṛta is the postgraduate study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hear him. What does he say?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the postgraduate study...

Devotees: Caitanya-caritāmṛta, postgraduate study.

Kulaśekhara: So if we're very attracted to reading Caitanya caritāmṛta now, but we haven't finished Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as yet, should we wait until we have studied Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam thoroughly?

Prabhupāda: It does not mean that one who is not postgraduate, he cannot read other books. Spiritual life is not a stereotype like that. But one who is not postgraduate, it is little difficult for him to understand the statement of... Just like in the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāj jagati para-tattvaṁ param iha, that there is no superior truth than Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you have not studied Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll not understand this statement. If you understand, "Yes, Caitanya is the supreme truth," then it is to be understood that you have graduated. And if you are not, then it will be difficult for you to understand.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: He separated body from the soul.

Rūpānuga: But after Socrates they all were like that. Socrates, you said once to me, was the last philosopher in the Western world of any value. At least, he knew the difference between body and soul. But after that they all became nonsense.

Devotee: (indistinct) arguing that rice can bring forth scorpions, he said that can happen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That... Prabhupāda said that rice can give scorpions? Something like that, scorpion comes out of rice.

Prabhupāda: Yes, taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where is this, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Is it in...?

Prabhupāda: In the Nyāya-śāstra, it is there. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Taṇḍula means rice, and vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpion coming out of the heaps of rice, so therefore rice is producing scorpion. This logic is wrong.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal. That is criminal, he is to be punished. Unlawful detention. But they do not know the laws of nature, how it is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The law of nature is working very silently, subtle. But they do not know. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascal is so fool that he thinks that "I can do everything, whatever I like." Similarly, killing of animal. "Life is eternal," one can argue, "then what is wrong? Even I kill, the soul is alive." No, the same argument that this soul was to live in a particular type of body under the laws of nature, and you have checked, and he has to take again a similar body to fulfill the duration. Therefore you have done criminality. I have got lease for live in this room for certain period. If prior to the expiry of the lease, if the landlord drives me away, that is illegal. He will be punished.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Unknown.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unknown source.

Sadāpūta: So we want to argue that this demonstrates that Supersoul is acting. These cases of these very famous musicians and scientists and such, there are many of them, they can be multiplied at great length, and they are very striking that way.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are about to make a slide of Kavirāja, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, about the, writing Caitanya-caritāmṛta on the same line, direction of Supersoul. We had... But couldn't put together. We'll make several slides along these lines proving the existence of Supersoul on the human level.

Sadāpūta: We are also thinking that this inspiration illustrated the modes of nature and the law of karma to some extent, because like the mathematician had to struggle very painfully for a very long time without getting his result, and then he got it, so that seemed more like the mode of passion and like that. But Mozart apparently just got these things without having to struggle for them, as though that was his past karma or something. Next slide. This is a summary of the basic kind of argument we wanted to make. The picture on the left, those ovals represent states of matter, configurations of matter, and they go from simple, toward the bottom, like just a chemical solution, up towards more complex as you go up, like living bodies of different kinds. The theory of evolution is sort of indicated in the left-hand one. According to that theory, you have very simple natural laws, and you start out with simple physical states, but somehow these natural laws produce a progressive increase in order, as indicated by those arrows going up. But actually we want to argue that simple natural laws don't have the power to do that, and that the situation on the right is what would happen if you just had simple natural laws, namely they would keep shoving things around on a simple level but never produce anything complex. The next slide, though, indicates that if you had natural laws with a high order of complexity, then they could manifest physical situations with a high order of complexity also, depending on how much was built into the laws. So we wanted to, in these two examples, indicate a higher and higher order of natural laws. So what we wanted to do was then combine these two things together, on the one hand that consciousness is not a physical phenomenon, and on the other hand, that in order to get...

Prabhupāda: This is physical, but subtle.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is good, because if we argue this we can always defeat this concept of evolution. Our main point is to defeat the concept of evolution.

Prabhupāda: No, no, evolution is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Evolution means material evolution, from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not evolution. The species are already there, 8,400,000. Now the living entity is changing the position. The status is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: They don't understand. That is their foolishness.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You cannot, you cannot... What is your question?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is the... They will take our idea as mythology, and we shall take their idea as most imperfect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we can argue on scientific...

Prabhupāda: This is the position. Now you try to argue, but they will take everything we propose as mythology, and we will take, "Because you are rascal, whatever you say, it is all rascaldom," that's all. This is the position. "You are imperfect, rascals. So whatever you say it is all rascaldom." That is our position. And as soon as we say from śāstra, they will say it is all mythology. Then how you'll meet? This is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now we can argue that mythology is not so serious. I think we can argue on very sound logic, pointing out that their measurement of the ages are also based not on very scientific background, but there are many mistakes, and in fact there are several reports that... (end)

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: There is also a small Vedanta Society here in Washington. I had one of our Indian associates, whom I hope you will be able to meet, go there, and he said they could not even discuss the topics of Bhagavad-gītā. They had no conclusions, they were arguing in their own meeting, and no one had any idea what Bhagavad-gītā was, and so many technical points.

Prabhupāda: The meat-eaters are the most sinful. They cannot understand. Vinā paśughnāt, nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt (SB 10.1.4). They will have no access.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there must be a fundamental mistake in their outlook.

Prabhupāda: Their life is a mistake, because they are sinful. Their life is a mistake, misguided.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This fellow is a chemist, and actually he's very intelligent and he has read all the Gītās and he has studied many thoughts on Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to talk with them about this, "What is life?" Then they will talk. If they are on the bodily conception of life, they are animals, which is not. First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform, "What is life." Identification.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Look down?

Hari-śauri: They think they are superior.

Prabhupāda: But you did not talk with him and argue?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I argued.

Prabhupāda: What is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, ultimately he has to accept that, our philosophy.

Prabhupāda: They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This man, there's a Professor Mitra, he's in Emory University in Department of Sociology. They claim he's a Vedantist, and they have a group. And this Das, actually his name was Das, he told me that he has Śrīla Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and worships it, he recites every day. And he told me that he praises very much, that it's the best Gītā he has seen. So although he's involved in something else, but still he's taking Śrīla Prabhupāda's.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any man who is reasonable, he'll come. If he's animal, he cannot come. That is the difference. The first charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he's animal. First of all, refute. If you are thinking that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," then you are animal. This is our first charge. What they will answer? What is the difference? If a dog is thinking "I am dog," and I am thinking "I am Indian" or "American," what is the difference? What is the difference between the dog and the man? That first charge should be answered.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is not your laboratory children. That is God's children. That is another thing. That is not your laboratory children. You want to produce children in laboratory? Then do that. That is our challenge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this, one of our arguments now, we argue that these molecules that (indistinct) for example DNA, even if they make it, still it just... It means it's a molecule. It is not going to function normally, as we find in a living cell, in a living body. So this has nothing to do with the life processes. The molecules they make, they may do so many reactions, but still there is a fundamental difference in the living body and this simple, that... To determine that it's never possible to create life in the test tube. The have timetables, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in about fifty years, that's about the turn of the century, that about 2001 we are going to make such and such bodies and...

Prabhupāda: All imagination.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So many strange things. They even said it that this, we have these five fingers, they said this isn't enough, so we must make six, so the six...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in this way they're cheating.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: Excuse me, one thing is you should address your questions to the authority. This discussion that you are having will get you nowhere. Unless you apply your questions to the authority, then you will never understand anything. So the authority is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta is teaching on that authority. So if you have come here, then you should try to address your questions to His Divine Grace rather than arguing among yourselves, because you will not find any satisfaction in your argument. If you want information, then you must go to the authority.

Guest: Still, the argument was an aspect of the occasion, and it came out of the wisdom that he's here.

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge. That one has to accept. So we take authority, the Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted authority by all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in the śāstra also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. So our authority is confirmed. So if we take conclusion from the authority, then we benefit. Otherwise, with our limited knowledge, if we go on arguing, then we cannot understand the conclusion. That is not possible.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Eugene Thoreau: You mentioned understanding, you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question. Can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding—not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts. What suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Vipina: They show pictures and it was on the TV.

Prabhupāda: That is also, you have made picture. I have not gone and seen that. How can I believe you? The same argument. You say that you have gone to moon planet, but I have not seen that you have gone there. How can I believe you?

Vipina: Is there some other way we can argue with them, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no, let us, now just answer this question that you say you have not seen. I say, yes that's all right, because you did not see, therefore you don't believe. But I did not see you also that you have gone to moon planet. How can I believe you?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: How is it possible to deceive so many people?

Prabhupāda: Whether it is not possible or possible, but if you put this argument, that I have not seen, I can say that I have... (end)

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That will take millions of years. By that time he'll be finished. (laughter)

Jayādvaita: Sometimes people say that although the body changes, the genes are the same, therefore it's not the soul that continues in the body, but these genes. So they argue that we're this body.

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...that by genetics they can develop the higher qualities in man, and they can arrange at birth to develop the finest qualities, strength, different talents also, like artistic talents, musical talents, better intelligence, all by chemistry.

Prabhupāda: So how much chemical he has devoured for becoming so intelligent? That man who is proposing chemicals, so how much quantity of chemical he has eaten to speak all this nonsense?

Bali-mardana: One of their programs is selective breeding. Only let the so-called intelligent people have children and let all the unintelligent people not have any children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then who will clean up the park if they do that?

Rādhāvallabha: No one does it anyway.

Rāmeśvara: They are thinking that in the future they can make...

Prabhupāda: All future. (dog barking) Future, however pleasant. Post-dated check. Future, millions of years after, you'll get payment, take this check.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So everything is given with logic and argument. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). First of all He's grouped among the incarnations, but Kṛṣṇa is not incarnation. He's bhagavān svayam.

Indian man: He comes original.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you argue against the authority of Bhāgavatam, then that argument has no value.

Indian man: That's where the problem in India is. Everyone is saying God is Mahā-Viṣṇu, and Kṛṣṇa and Rāma are only avatāras, and that's where the big argument came in. In fact, I talked to so many...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise why Sūta Gosvāmī, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28)? And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So how one can say like that? That means less intelligent. If Kṛṣṇa... If one accepts the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Then how they falsely say? Aham ādir hi devānām. Find out this verse.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhas.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: (laughs) Mūḍhas, yes. So I understand... Some of the friends said it was a big feast and all that, but there was nothing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They never talk about the Lord. They were simply arguing each other, "I think so." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: This is their business.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Big, big professor from the university, from Glasgow, so many professors. Big pamphlet came to me. They all sent to... They sent it to this place here. I don't know from where they get the address or the name all that, and they sent, many, many of these new societies. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many visitors here. One time that church come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Hari-śauri: We argued for a half hour against going to India, but in the end, you decided that you wanted to go to Bombay immediately.

Bhagavān: But I mean, if you have to risk that eight-hour plane ride, that's much more difficult than going to the farm. The farm is only three hours in a comfortable car.

Hari-śauri: It's not just that. It's the problem that you have to fly from France to somewhere else and then from somewhere else back to India. I said the main problem is that if you do go to France, then it means a great deal more traveling than would be involved in simply flying to India, because you'd have to travel back and forth to the Paris farm. Then you would also have to stay in Tehran, up and down like that in the plane, and then again fly to Bombay.

Bhagavān: But he doesn't have to stay in the farm for just nine days. He can stay there for long time.

Prabhupāda: If the health suits, I can stay there. If the health improves, I can stay.

Pṛthu-putra: Air India is direct from Geneva.

Prabhupāda: I shall not stay...

Pṛthu-putra: I came back from Bombay to Geneva by direct plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is plane.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Don't take it as a sectarian religious system. It is very scientific understanding for spiritual life.

Harikeśa: But, ah, "Beware of the undefeatable reasoning and logic of the Hare Kṛṣṇas, who will steal away your children." (laughs) Because we argue so nicely because Śrīla Prabhupāda has trained us up very perfectly, because he also is the perfect teacher of this. Therefore the students can learn that way. So when we argue people become afraid, because it makes so much sense.

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: No...No, I have no objection. What is that? They'll work that side; I'll sit down here.

Jayatīrtha: They should come now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our program is solid, but if we have to argue with animals, that is a different thing. Otherwise any human being, they will accept. But the modern civilization means to keep the people in general in animal platform, that's all, and cheat them.

Bhagavān: Most of the people who..., they are becoming attracted to this communist philosophy. They have no idea how to practically apply it. All they are saying is "It is an opportunity to take from the rich and give me to enjoy." But they are not seeing any scope of community cooperation. This is all impractical. They are saying, "I will get money from my boss. I will take his wealth and distribute." They are simply materialists.

Prabhupāda: "That also distribute for me. More share for me." (laughs) Now there is drought; there is no rain. What the capitalists or communists can do in this connection? If they are able to present any program how to counteract? Then where is your progress? When there is some calamity, you both of you simply (indistinct). That's all. You cannot do anything. Then where is your progress?

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are some. They are not all. Even they criticize that "You cannot see Kṛṣṇa." So similar argument can be, "You do not see Lenin. Why you are worshiping?" That's it. "Is Lenin present before you? So why you are worshiping?" You'll see. You have got, in Moscow got, every street corner a big picture.

Harikeśa: They're trying to replace everybody's desire to worship some greater authority.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, but if you or somebody argues, "Where is Lenin? You are.... Why you are worshiping? You cannot see Lenin..." Because they say, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? You are worshiping a statue," so we can say the same thing, "Where is your Lenin? The statue, it is?" In the airport station, street crossing and everywhere there is picture. And they go to worship Lenin's tomb every day. Many other fools also go there, tourists, that Red Square. They tried in India for Jawaharlal Nehru's tomb, for Gandhi's tomb. So in the beginning there was little crowd. Now nobody goes. But Vṛndāvana, Govindaji's temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple? Without invitation-crowd. This is culture.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: Then they can take responsibility themselves.

Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do. I cannot teach anybody to do it. That is not intelligence. Intelligence is that employ others to help you. That is intelligence. Not that "Oh, I was busy, I could not do it." Why? What about your assistant? Train assistant so that in your absence things can be done. So the elderly students, they could be... Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. When He was sixteen years old he could argue with Keśava Kāśmīrī, because He was practiced. In this way, stage after stage, everyone should be expert. Everyone should be teacher and student.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: They say the chemicals are giving off gases when they are feeding(?) the earth. They take the ground from Mars.

Prabhupāda: Just see so many bogus words they manufacture to make believe. Because they are scientist, they'll talk all big, big words which we cannot understand. So you cannot argue. (talks gibberish) Like that. By common sense question, that they are simply finding out rocks and sand, and again they are saying somebody has bombed. The first... (coughing) If there is bomb, then there is fight; so if there is fight, there must be human being.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Harikeśa: "The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, 'You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned—one who knows what is body and what is soul—does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Then?

Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That depends on him. If one is determined that "I shall only act according to the advice of my Guru Mahārāja," then he's perfect. One has to submit like Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). Otherwise he'll argue.

Devotee: Even nitya-siddha has guru.

Yaśomatīnandana: Even the liberated soul, nitya-siddha.

Prabhupāda: Liberated soul never says that "I am liberated." As soon as he says "liberated," he's a rascal. A liberated soul will never say that "I am liberated." That is liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God—guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan (CC Adi 7.71). "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He's God. This is the example. If one remains always a servant ever-lastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Guru more mūrkha dekhi'. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mūrkha? Why He's posing Himself that mūrkha? "I am fool number one." That means that is liberation. You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If the real subject matter of study you neglect, that is your negligence, your misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Now how to rectify this...

Prabhupāda: You can take it now. You are simply arguing. Why don't you take it? That means you don't want to take it. There is the thing, but if you want, you can take it. But if you don't want, then how we can help you?

Interviewer (5): On you return from West do you feel..., do you think your movement in India has gained ground or created consciousness...

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in any particular country. This is meant for the whole human society. As you think "India" or "America," we do not think like that. We take the opportunity wherever it is possible to introduce more and more we take that opportunity.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So at the present moment, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it doesn't matter what kind of state it is, but it should follow the principle of yajña. Yajñārthe karmaṇa. Otherwise, we shall be responsible. Just like, for example, a military man, what is his business? His business is killing. So by the government order he is killing, and the more number of enemies he kills, he gets medal, reward. But the same man, if he kills one man, he'll be hanged—for his own sense gratification. He cannot argue that "In the military camp I have killed so many men and I was rewarded, and now I have killed one man and I am going to be hanged. Why?" The question may be raised. No foolish man will raise the question. That means that killing is under the superior order, and this killing is for your sense gratification. So if you do anything for our sense gratification then it will be stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). He is punishable. But if we execute the supreme order, then you are rewarded. The same action. We are requesting therefore everywhere, not only in India, all over the world, that act according to the order of the supreme, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And gradually they are accepting the principle. So why not in India? In India, the Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in India.
Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord Kṛṣṇa in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. Yāmunācārya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession from Rāmānujācārya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection. He says, 'My dear Lord, devotees like Vyāsadeva and Nārada know You to be the Personality of Godhead. By understanding different Vedic literatures, one can come to know Your characteristics, Your form and Your activities, and one can thus understand that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing Vedānta and the Upaniṣads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead.' In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Personality of Godhead cannot be understood simply by study of the Vedānta literature. Only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord can the Personality of the Supreme be known. Therefore in this verse it is clearly stated that not only the worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent, but those nondevotees who are engaged in Vedānta and speculation on Vedic literature..."

Prabhupāda: You can give up to that Yāmunācārya's quotation. What you have written.

Pradyumna: So far? Everything? Or just... Only, is one's word only...

Prabhupāda: What you have written.

Pradyumna: "Dear Sai Baba, just recently..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...brainwash.

Hari-śauri: But how can they take it that what we're doing is a bad thing. If we're training people how to avoid intoxication, how to avoid illicit sex, abortion, contraception.

Prabhupāda: They say, "Why you should avoid? This is life. Why you are brainwashing?" One boy was there in the beginning. What was his name? Ranchor, his name, I gave him. So his father argued, "Why you are avoiding illicit sex? This is life! Why you are afraid? I'll give you car. I'll give you girls. You enjoy. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy." His father was arguing. I think everyone's father argues like that. Lord Roland said, he said, "Why you are prohibiting this thing? This is our life. It is impossible."

Hari-śauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians.

Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, it doesn't matter. Understand the idea?

Jagadīśa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: To attract them to really nice prasādam, palatable food, we shall spend. And we shall argue (?) also by literature produced, and they're learning. Where is the difficulty? We shall take contribution from rich persons. We shall earn ourself, and spend it, to give them very nice prasādam. Gradually when they come, when you engage them in producing their own food, own shelter, own cloth... This should be organized. And they'll be glad. As soon as they understand, they will be glad to do. And they will stop all this nonsense: illicit sex, and meat eating. Then their life will be purified. And they'll make more and more advancement in this path. That is perfection. That you want. Is it clear or not?

Jagadīśa: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you." This is the first instance (instruction?). That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14).

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

Indian man: But in these areas they don't require such intelligent preachers. Intelligence is required in cities where people are full of logic and want to argue right or wrong. And where they're determined to prove that "You are wrong, I am right," there you require...

Prabhupāda: That will not help. That is my propaganda. If they are induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Indian man: That's all. But for that very big preaching is not required. Sincerity is required.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man: It is the personal sincere influence which one...

Prabhupāda: America, I simply began this chanting and few minutes speaking.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to... I'm not there all the time. They come to his house to...

Prabhupāda: No, you argue with weapon. Beat them. We shall see. Go to the police that "This is nonsense."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we've done that.

Prabhupāda: So how is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At the present moment he's okay; he's quiet.

Prabhupāda: No, we should beat them. If somebody, atatayi...(?) You unnecessarily attack me; I must first kill you. That is my duty. Just like you have done here, Setterji. "I'll bring my revolver." So that is argumentum baculum. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: "All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver." He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice. Take that spirit. And in meantime apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we're not going to pay tax.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is... How you'll get the equal rights?

Dr. Patel: No woman smaller than Kuntī could have produced an Arjuna.

Prabhupāda: You can produce. That is another thing. A cook can produce foodstuff suitable for rich man, but that does not mean he is rich man.

Dr. Patel: You argue. (laughs)

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you told one story about the animals having a meeting and trying to become free from the control of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Our śāstras say (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Everyone is (Sanskrit). That is according to his position. That does not mean equal. Kṛṣṇa Himself worshiped Sudāmā Vipra. That does not mean Sudāmā Vipra is as good as the Personality of Godhead. When Nārada was coming in Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa immediately got down and... Nārada was smiling, "Just see the fun." But etiquette. Nārada never said that "I am better than Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa." Never said.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and if you stop me to think of Kṛṣṇa, is it not going against my thought? Bhagavad-gītā, it is recommended, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. So this is a standard thing. So I thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you should stop me? Is it not infringement my freedom?

Rāmeśvara: They argue that they are not stopping you from thinking about Kṛṣṇa. They want to stop you from being a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Why? If I have to think of Kṛṣṇa, I must be member of the society. Otherwise how can I think of? Suppose if I have to do business, share business, I have to become a member of the share market.

Rāmeśvara: They say that the way the society is managed...

Prabhupāda: You can say. But this is the system. If you have got some thought, you must mix with such similar thoughtful men. That is everywhere. The scholars, they associate; the medical men, they associate. How can you stop it?

Rāmeśvara: They don't think it's healthy.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... The significance is sādhu-saṅga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like śaṅkha. Śaṅkha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the śaṅkha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this śaṅkha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-praṇihito dharmaḥ. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Everything is there. Can you find out this verse from the Sixth Canto?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, at least it is expected they will read: "What is this book I have purchased? Let me see." Reading, of course, meant for intelligent class.

Hari-śauri: Well, just like this radio show, there were so many things said, but at the end, even the man who was blaspheming said, "Well, I guess we'll just have to read your books and find out what it's about." So if people hear a (sic:) controvity and we're arguing one way, they argue another way, then if the book's there, they'll naturally want to read it just to see actually what's the fact.

Rāmeśvara: We are starting a new radio show again in America. Formerly we had a show called "The Kṛṣṇa Show." So we're starting it again, and it will be nationwide. And there will be a lot of controversy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to take advantage of the modern medium of publicity.

Rāmeśvara: Radio and even television.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No argument! This is fact!

Rāmeśvara: Yes, this is fact.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument.

Rāmeśvara: No. He's not arguing that.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do. You are so poor that you are afraid to marry because you have to take so much responsibility.

Rāmeśvara: He wants to know, then, why didn't Jesus Christ say all these things about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Jesus may be fool. That doesn't mean everyone should be fool.

Rāmeśvara: They believe Jesus came to this world to teach people about God.

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you. Therefore he... Even ordinary moral principles, you could not, what to speak of other things." Actually that is the fact. Actually that is the fact. He had to deal with rascals and fools. Is that civilization, that first of all argue, "Thou shall not kill"? That means you were all rascals engaged in killing business. Is that civilized men? Why he said like that? Is that very good philosophy? Mean they were so low class that they had to be stopped first of all, these sinful activities. That also, they could not. This is their position. And for the last two thousand years they could not. Such nice brain. They could not understand even one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are proud of becoming Christian, rascals. "You do not know what is Christianity, what is Jesus Christ. You are all rascals." Tell them like that. What do you think?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: When we argue like that, they cannot say anything.

Prabhupāda: We must. "No, you have taken Dr. Radhakrishnan authority. Has he commented on Bible? Why not? That is not even worth commenting on." You have to attack like that.

Hari-śauri: If President Nixon had written a commentary on the Bible, no one in America would accept it. Then why should they accept Radhakrishnan's?

Prabhupāda: No, Radhakrishnan may say so, but who has accepted? You are, because you are a fool. Same argument, that people have passed urine on his face, and they are worshiping. They have not stopped Kṛṣṇa worshiping because Radhakrishnan has said, restriction. (?) Who cares for him? Vṛndāvana, there are five thousand temples. Every day thousands of people are coming. We have started Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple very recently, and thousands of men are coming. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? Daye mane nāpa ni more (?) "Nobody cares for him; he becomes leader." What is the value of such leader? If somebody cares for that person, then he's leader. Nobody cares for him? He's leader for you because you are a rascal. You do not know anything. So he may be leader for men like you, but India... Nobody cares for him. Is it not? Who cares for Radhakrishnan?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Therefore it is mentioned.

Rāmeśvara: Now, one of their arguments is... Their main thing is to try to pretend that it is not a question of religion.

Prabhupāda: So, one thing is that if you have proved a swine, what is the value of your arguments? You have proved that you are a swine. So better stop arguing. What I say, you accept. That is good for you. Because you are descendants of swine, and actually you are doing that.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, on one television show they directly accused Your Divine Grace. They said that you have got us going out every day collecting money, and we have to send all this money to India, to Māyāpur, to build one temple so that you will become famous. And ultimately we will worship you as God.

Prabhupāda: Well, already famous. What is that famous?

Rāmeśvara: That was their argument.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. A famous man must be famous. He cannot be famous, famous. What you have done that you'll be famous? You are swine. You cannot be famous.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: They... They...

Rāmeśvara: Very fat, white beard. Christians got very angry. They think that Santa Claus is Christian, so we are impersonating to take advantage. But we were arguing that "This Santa Claus is not Christian or Jewish. He is devotee of God." Originally Santa Claus is a saint, Saint Nicholas. So we were arguing, "How can you claim exclusive property of Christian? He is a servant of God. You are using this Santa Claus..."

Prabhupāda: Even Americans use also.

Rāmeśvara: "...to sell liquor and sell cigarettes." If you watch the TV, you see that they have commercials, and Santa Claus is encouraging people, "Buy liquor," "Buy cigarettes." But we are using Santa Claus, encouraging people to...

Prabhupāda: Read book.

Rāmeśvara: ...read book. Anyway, there was some controversy, and they had this one cartoon, I sent it, outside the place where Lord Jesus was born, and the father of Jesus is seeing outside. There are three Hare Kṛṣṇas playing mṛdaṅga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Sir, He is not infinite.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you have to understand, that although He is person, He is infinite. That you have to understand. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): Sir, in Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: He! One man. If you argue in that way, many people, then there will be no answer. You should know the etiquette. How can I answer so many person at a time? So this infinite is explained, infiniteness. Kṛṣṇa says, māyā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am infinitely everywhere." māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtina (BG 9.4). Just like here in this room, do you think there is no government in this room? Do you think there is no government within this room?

Guest (1): Yes, I think there is some government.

Prabhupāda: There is. But that... It is not... There is no representative of government, but still, we are under the government. This is avyakta. The government is there, but it doesn't mean that the prime minister or the president is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but He says, māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: On that tape where you are arguing with that man, you asked him, "Did you read Bhagavad-gītā?" He was criticizing, but then he asked him, "Did you read Bhagavad-gītā?" He said, "No."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such... They have created this Vivekananda and Cinmayanandas, rascals, so many rascals. They have created such situation that Indian people are mostly in darkness, although God appears here in India. They have executed such thankless task, this Vivekananda, Cinmayananda and so many Māyāvādīs. "Ramakrishna is Bhagavān." And what is his certificate that he is Bhagavān? "He said." No. He said "I am the same Rāma. I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So he is taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa to prove his Godhead. So why not go to original Godhead? Why shall I take the imitation? He is maintaining his position that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." "So then same Kṛṣṇa is authority. So why shall I not go to same Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I go to you? Your authority is also Kṛṣṇa. So why shall I give up original Kṛṣṇa and take to an imitation Kṛṣṇa? You may be the same, but I am not a very intelligent man. Why shall I go to the imitation? I shall go to the original." Hm? Is it not? "I am not so expert to understand whether you are actual or not. You are saying. There is no proof in the śāstra. So let me go to the original." Is that all right, argument? "Why shall I take you? You are supporting, trying to maintain yourself." Everyone says that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God." So India, we have to fight little. There are so many atheists. But mass of people, they are all right.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: I gave him good thrashing. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: That is their mercy, that you even bothered to talk to them.

Prabhupāda: But they could not argue. I stopped them arguing. One man, one boy, he asked me, "Why God has created this world?" And "Why don't you ask your father why he has created you? Then you'll understand." I told him like that. "Go and ask your father why he has created you."

Rāmeśvara: Of course, nowadays that is an accident, not planned. If you ask a father, "Why you have made your son?" he will say, "By mistake. I did not want him. I was simply wanting sex."

Prabhupāda: But God cannot make mistake. Then He becomes imper... He cannot be good. And not all fathers... According to Vedic civilization, the father creates the son purposefully with some ceremony, garbhādāna ceremony. It is not secret job. Putrethi kriyate bharyā: "One is married to create a good son." That is the purpose. And Bhagavad-gītā says, dharmāviruddha. "Aviruddha, which is not against religion, that kind of lust I am." So how it can be accident? If there is garbhādāna ceremony and son is essential, then how it can be accident?

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "What benefit you have got from Vivekananda?" You did not ask? What bene...?

Gargamuni: No. I told him "Actually Prabhupāda, he has done more work than Vivekananda in helping to spread India's dharma all over the world." I had to very careful because there were many other people sitting around, including the manager, and I didn't want to start a fight. So I said, "Actually Prabhupāda has done greater work." He said (in shocked tone), "What have you said? You have said that your guru is greater than Vivekananda?" I said, "He has done more work." And he started, "No. You cannot say that." Then two other men who were sitting there stood up and said, "No! He has done more work. I was at the Olympic games, and I heard the whole thing was chanting in Montreal. Last year I was at the Olympic games, and I saw them all chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has done more work." Two men, they came. So I just sat there and let those two men argue.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Gargamuni: Yes. He was very nice man. He was glorifying you. He said, "I have read their magazine."

Rāmeśvara: We were selling books and having kīrtana at the Montreal Olympics.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: All right, bring it

Guest (1): (Bengali or Oriya:) Sorry if Prabhupāda was taxed by that man. He did not understand...

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (1): ...and started arguing. He's not in a mood to understand.

Prabhupāda: Where is dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, in Bhagavad-gītā? Mamaivāṁśo (BG 15.7). Aṁśaṁśi-dvaita. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Pitā-putra, dvaitavāda. Bahūni, janma, janmāni tava cārjuna. Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa-dvaitavāda.

Guest (1): Virudāvalī should also be translated.

Prabhupāda: Virudāvalī, Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana's?

Guest (1): No, Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Rūpa Gosvāmī, yes.

Guest (1): (quotes long Sanskrit verses from Virudāvalī)

Prabhupāda: Very good. These are for higher devotees, not for the neophytes. For neophytes we have translated Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion. You have seen our books?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: There's no way.

Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are unperceivable by you, don't argue. Take the statement of the authority. So everything imperceptible, even this material world... You do not know what are these planets. Many hundred thousand millions are glittering. You do not know anything. Neither you can know it. Similarly, you cannot know. You have not done it, to manufacture life. How do you rascals say that "It is like this. It is like this. It is chemical combination"? You cannot manufacture even egg, little chemical. But the chemical is coming from within the body of the chicken. It is being perfectly done, but you cannot do it. So what is your knowledge? Why you are so much proud of this knowledge? It is so imperfect.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: They usually argue that "Well, you see we have made so many big machines and done so many material wonders."

Prabhupāda: What is wonder? This is wonder for you, rascal. We see you are as good as dog. The dog with his four legs is running. He has no looseness. But your machine is now loose. Now you cannot go. This is your progress. A dog with four legs, he will immediately, immediately go, and now you have to wait. This is your progress, less than the dog. When there is dog race... We are going in the car, and dog is running after. We see sometimes. We see, "Oh, dog is running. You cannot have a car." Dog is free to run. You are not free to run, rascal. As soon as there is little looseness, dog will go hundred miles away from you. And you'll sit down here and cry. This is your progress. That race, you know? Tortoise?

Hari-śauri: The tortoise and the hare.

Prabhupāda: Tortoise and?

Satsvarūpa: Rabbit.

Prabhupāda: Rabbit. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: At least you should take our books, that "This is our statement. Defense is. You first of all read this; then give your judgment."

Satsvarūpa: One of their biggest charges is that we don't...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. All charges are replied in these books. So you read these books and argue on this. Finish this. Then give judgment. Make this. Make a firm. Bring all these eighty-four books. That is legal! From law point, it is legal. What I have to say, you have to hear. So we have said everything there.

Gargamuni: Instead of spending for these lawyers, let us bring your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Gargamuni: That is the testimony.

Prabhupāda: And read them and argue on them. "Finish this argument; then give the judgment." Why don't you do it? Make an experiment?

Gurukṛpā: We've done that.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: "These are our statements, sir." That... You have piled this book. You have one photograph, like a mountain. You remember that picture?

Hari-śauri: Yes. On the back of the BTG there's a big stack of books.

Prabhupāda: According to... Oh, the statement must be read, argued, then judgment. Point to point.

Hari-śauri: No, we can defeat them on every point.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Now the question "Why he shall give up?" "Yes, you must give up." Then argument. Go on for three years. Then whole thing will come—what is God, what is creation, what is your position, why you should you surrender, and so on, so on, so on.

Hari-śauri: Everything. All the arguments you've been giving us, now this is a good opportunity to use them all.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the judgment was given Shylock, the Jew. When he was persistent that "I shall take one pound flesh from the chest," no, he said, "No, I cannot touch that." Then the judgment was, "Yes, you can take, only one pound. If it is one hundredth part of an ounce, it is more, then you'll be hanged. Or even it is less, you'll be hanged. Exactly one pound you have."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: And only flesh. No blood.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then he was trapped. So we have to do like that. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) If the other party is tricky, you should be also tricky. Why you should be so plain? And this is quite legal, that "This is our statement, these eighty-four books. We have got others also, but some of them are here. So, my lord, you read this statement. Let us argue." Then it will be read. They have to. They cannot say, "No, I am not going to take any..." That is illegal. Whatever I say, he has to take. Then there is argument. First of all statement. The court procedure is: I have charged you with something. Court will ask you, "What you have got to say against these charges?" So you'll submit your statement. Then both the statements, the court's duty is to study and give the judgment. This is the law. So they have charged us with something. We give our statement. "Now you study and argue, and then give your judgment." Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: We should introduce the books as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Yes, the court, before the case can decide, they must read all the books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And argue line by line.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We can show them that they're actually the criminals.

Prabhupāda: Take this. Immediately write. Then it will be our preaching. In the court the books will be read, and we shall put our argument to support it. Let all the scientists, philosopher, come there. Make like that. So we have to go there now? No. Not yet.

Hari-śauri: In a few minutes.

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them the strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Why not? You just consider, yourself. You are three GBCs. And give your opinion. This is my suggestion. The same suggestion as Dr. Rajaveri(?) Ghosh said, "Yes, my lord, I have brought the whole library to teach you law."

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpā: What was that story of Caesar?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Tell him.

Satsvarūpa: Scissors. Two men were arguing...

Gurukṛpā: Oh, the scissors.

Prabhupāda: Scissor logic.

Devotee: What is that?

Satsvarūpa: One man said a knife was used...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and the other said, "No, it was a scissor that was used." And they began arguing back and forth, and finally one man who held that it was a knife, he threw the other man in the river...

Prabhupāda: That "You accept that it is done by scissor." So he said, "No, I won't tolerate." Then he pushed him in the water. Then he was doing like this. (laughter) Scissor logic.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as you become puffed-up, then lost.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's what scientists are. They say they'll be able to understand everything by their experimental knowledge. We say, "No, Let's think about it. Let's be honest. There are so many things which are beyond our experimental knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Avan(?) mānasa-gocara. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yoja... Which is beyond your knowledge, you don't argue. Accept the authority.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is approach. Then we bring bhakti-yoga...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...saying these things.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning, submission. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). That is the beginning of bhakti-yoga. And if you remain just like the scissor man, then you'll never learn.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And once we bring this bhakti-yoga, we can prove very easily that the Supreme Being, must be a person.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This professor of mine, he was very much against at the beginning of the theory. Then, when I gave this lecture, he invited me for home, in his home, and his wife supported our theory, so he came around, saying that "Yes, science says earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and there are so many defects. So they have to accept that "No, we cannot be correct." So people are coming around slowly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Don't bring now scripture. We are talking in common language, common sense, that within... You cannot understand it. Therefore where is your brain? The dog also cannot understand. He's simply identifying with this body, and you also doing that. So where is your brain? Man is rational animal. Where is your rationality? If (you) avoid rationality, you are as good as dog. Where is your brain? Argue on this point. Dog... If one big dog thinking, "I am greyhound " or "this big body I am..." The lion also thinking, "I am so powerful. I am this body." So I am also thinking like that: "I am American, very rich." But both of them—no understanding that how you are powerful, why you are powerful, what is that active principle. Then where is your brain? Why man is important than the animal? It is common sense. So it is not brainwashing, but it is giving brain, this movement. They have no brain at all. So argue on this point. Our challenge is that "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash? You cannot understand the simple thing, which is important."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But then they could argue that actually the dream is just imagination. When the man wakes up, then he's back in reality.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is acting on him. You cannot see how it is acting. That is not possible. You cannot see how it is acting, but it is acting.

Ādi-keśava: So that proves there must be something beyond the gross plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But your conclusion—"I cannot see"—that is brainless. That is brainless proposal. You depend on your seeing, but you cannot see. So many things are happening. That, your proposal, is brainless. That means you have no sufficient brain to see things as they are. Take this point and consider. Place in the court. It will be very interesting. Case will prolong, and we can disclose our all philosophy. Is it not?

Tripurāri: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They used that as one legal argument. They said that one of our devotees should be put in the mental hospital for his own protection, because otherwise he would go and kill himself. And the court said, "Why is that?" They said, "Well, because in their books it says that if a devotee hears someone blaspheming the spiritual master or Kṛṣṇa, then they have to commit suicide."

Prabhupāda: No, they will argue on so many things.

Ādi-keśava: "Or cut their tongue out." They said, "Either they will cut my tongue out or they will kill themself. So either way, they should be put in a mental hospital."

Prabhupāda: No, or you go away from that place.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So how he's father? What is the purport?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Read the purport.

Pradyumna: "There are many spiritual masters, but Ṛṣabhadeva..." (break)

Prabhupāda: And who is father according to that definition? This is our formula.

Ādi-keśava: They argue sometimes. They say, "You are saying that you guru..."

Prabhupāda: You are argue your point, but our argument is here. You are arguing from your point of view, and we shall argue from our point of view. Unless the father releases the son from the cycle of birth and death, he's not father. This is our formula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In order to accept this, they will have to rewrite the laws.

Prabhupāda: This is the actual... Now, apart from the scriptural injunction, if one comes to the argument, then such kind of father is there in the animal society also. Cats and dogs, they also beget children, but they cannot relieve the child from the cycle of birth and death. And Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you have to see what is the actual distress in this material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So in this life you are my father, and next time I become a cat or dog, so who cares for this father? I get another father. So who knows this law? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). The laws of nature is going on, and everything is happening. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are getting a type of body according to karma.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Shadow. The shadow has no power to move. Chāyeva. How nice example. Although Durgā, the material nature, is so powerful, she is powerful in that way, as much the shadow is powerful. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. Again explained, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate. "Whatever she is doing, she is doing according to the desire of the Supreme..." Govindam ādi-puruṣam. "O Govinda, You are the Supreme." Everything is there. Everything is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā. Ultimately, govindam ādi-puruṣam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in the court cases that we've had against our society, they only question our method of preaching. But this is the first case where they are questioning what we are preaching. It's the first time I have seen it. Usually they're simply arguing over "You should distribute books like this or not like this." But now they are questioning what is in the books.

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, where is brain? "Show. You are manufacturing so many machines." Challenge this, "Where is this machine?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their conception of what intelligence is is completely different than our conception.

Prabhupāda: And that means they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They would argue...

Prabhupāda: Just like a child's conception is different from the father. That means he has not developed the brain. That is only answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept that God consciousness is...

Prabhupāda: So then... They may not accept, but the fact is there. You can challenge this, that body's machine. Apart from what is the energy that is moving the machine, but it is machine, we accept. So you prepare a machine like that. Where is that machine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "You have blasphemed our society and our president all over the papers." Oh, our movement has suffered. We can claim damages for sure. A perfect example, we had a man working for us in charge of our boiler room. So as soon as this case came out, he quit the job. He had been working in the building for thirty-four years. He quit the job because he did not want to be associated with our society due to the bad publicity. So in this way so many people, we can argue, have stopped coming to our temple. So many things we have suffered. Lawsuit.

Prabhupāda: Same position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the traditional system. After you win the case, then you turn around and sue them. We may not get, because we're suing the city. Anyway, then we can get more opportunity for furthering our propaganda if we file another suit. Tomorrow will you go on a walk, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I can go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you be walking on the roof or down below? Which do you prefer?

Prabhupāda: I can go down very well.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So thousands of men reading our Bhāgavata. No, many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If numbers is proof, we have more.

Prabhupāda: This is no argument.

Hari-śauri: But they'll argue that "We're building the rocket ships, and we're sending... We watch them go off..."

Prabhupāda: What you have done? You could not go and live there. You say the atmosphere is different. We deny this. Atmosphere cannot be different. It is within this material world. We can see. Why atmosphere should be different? If the atmosphere is different, how you can see a solid, very bright thing? I can see. Why there is a bright thing? Why it should be different?

Hari-śauri: Well, it's just got no atmosphere, that's all.

Prabhupāda: That is your statement. I don't believe it. I don't accept your statement. I use my common sense. Why the atmosphere? I can see the bright thing, light. If I see this light, I can see that light. Why they should differ?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that just like when you go up on top of the mountain, the oxygen is rarified, the atmosphere is more rarified.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But that does not mean on the top of the hill there is no life.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It will be very nice.

Ādi-keśava: Because otherwise it is costing so much money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately.

Ādi-keśava: One other thing that is sometimes arising is that when we are arguing the case in the court...

Prabhupāda: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?

Ādi-keśava: Some are willing to help us. This one man Din Agnihotri from Southern University Law School, he helped us make the basis of the case. But most of the Indian lawyers, they will not help us.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: It shows that they have a big organization. See, they have all these committees. And there's a lot of money involved. There are a lot of people with big money. Starting at the top, they've made a national organization. I know all these men. I've spoken to all these people. They're big demons, but they have a lot of money, so they're fighting us in all the different courts. But so far they have not taken it beyond the lower courts. When we take it to the higher courts we always win. For instance, just before I left, we took two cases to the Federal Court. Immediately we won. In one day they gave us the case. My case is in a very low court. If it goes to a high-court we will win. So we are wanting to do this, but that means again that if we were to do it, only certain lawyers can enter into the Federal Court. Not just any lawyer can argue there, because you have to have some...

Prabhupāda: So you have to pay. What can be done?

Ādi-keśava: So if you're willing to do that, I will do it.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Ādi-keśava: I'm hoping that if we can organize some legal office for the society, then we will be able to do this more effectively.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Ādi-keśava: This is that book we made for the conference, the ACLU conference in New York.

Prabhupāda: Who he is?

Ādi-keśava: He is one of the guṇḍās.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So revive it.

Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.

Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lady.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Indira Bhai Bhaga,(?) the sheriff of Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lady sheriff. Strange combination. (end)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no honesty all over the world. It is a forgotten. "These are primitive," they say, "Now, the honesty, to become pious, to become religious. These are simply primitive idea." We have to open this. That is a specific subject matter of that... But we have to write very nicely. Everything is based on tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that... The materialists argue that we're being cheated.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.

Prabhupāda: We are not discussing that, but you are cheating—that is practical. You are cheating. Your government is cheating, giving a piece of paper, cheating me that "You get hundred rupees."

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anthology. So in that book they have given quotation from my books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It's just come out.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Dr. Sharma: One day they removed the professor the department of Russian, for arguing in favor (?) of Indian yoga, and he was practicing it and teaching the people. And they got rid of it.

Prabhupāda: So when they get the information...

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

There is book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the book, Words of the World Religions, and on the part, the section is entitled "Kṛṣṇa," and on the part "Kṛṣṇa," "From Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." Very nice.

Dr. Sharma: This publication is from States or Russia?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is published from the United States.

Prabhupāda: Anthology of Religions of the World.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)

Indian man (3): There are two.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (3): Historical judgment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was expecting to fight that case at least for some years, but by Kṛṣṇa's grace he has given on the first day the judgment.

Indian man (3): Was it argued on also?

Prabhupāda: No. Simply we presented our statement. I advised them that "You take my eighty-four books and present before the judge that 'Our statements are here. First of all you read these books. Then you give your judgment.' "

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda's judgment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So (laughs) Kṛṣṇa has given him sense that from the ordinary statement he has understood the whole thing, and he has given judgment immediately. I never... This is all Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everyone's heart, so He has dictated that "You give judgment like this." So he... Otherwise it was impossible. And that is... In many courts... We have been harassed in Australia, many, many, because they are afraid of... Now Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is advancing. The some... One politician has said that "This movement is increasing like epidemic. If we do not check it, within ten years they'll take our government." (laughter) Yes, in America one politician... So actually that is happening. In spite of so much obstacles, we are increasing. Our books are selling. They are advancing. We are getting more devotees. Our movement is not checked. It is... (break) But you do not know. We are dropping from the sky? Our main movement is Europe, America.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Na jāyate na mriyate. He never said. Cannot create. They want to create life. Rascal, you cannot do. Not at all. You have got sanity?

Śatadhanya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can you sleep? It's time.

Prabhupāda: I can give you idea. Now you develop. Whatever ideas I am giving, it is nonrefutable idea, final.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also makes difficult for others to argue.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but when you become a dog next life, then what is your gain? You are not going to use this airplane. You have to make a rest in this car, in this seat. What you are going to do that about? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Kṛṣṇa says most authoritative statement and giving the example, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). So how you can check this dehāntara?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They argue that "We are getting people to live longer now than they used to live."

Prabhupāda: After all, you'll have to change. In a false platform, to live longer, is that very great profit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, as we improve material life...

Prabhupāda: No, where is improved? You are going to be a dog, suppose. Where is your improvement?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's an illusion.

Prabhupāda: They lose.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Adhokṣaje. Yato bhaktiḥ. When you become a devotee, then you'll go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is required.

Prabhupāda: That is the aim of life. So everything is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And then these unfortunate rascals, they are distorting. What can I do? How to stop it?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "Why should we accept that there will be a next life?"

Prabhupāda: Rascal, why you are accepting old age? You are young man. You have to accept, become. Why you are accepting, rascal? Answer this.

Devotee (3): I don't know.

Prabhupāda: So then why do you talk nonsense? "Why shall I accept?" You have to accept, nonsense. That is the law of nature. Do you think you'll not become an old man like me? "I'll not accept." You have to accept. So what is the use of saying like that, foolish rascals?

Devotee (3): So they must accept that...

Prabhupāda: They must accept. They have to accept.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are all young men. Who wants to become an invalid man like me? With three men I have to walk. Nobody wants. But you have to accept. I did not like. But you have to accept, compulsory. What is the use of saying, "Why shall I accept?" You... "Why?" There is no question of "Why?" You have to. That is the control.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might argue that...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."

Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."

Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotee (3): They must become a little humble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They must know that every knowledge-acquiring process requires certain conditions to be fulfilled in order to understand it, that those conditions have to be acquired. Otherwise it's not possible.

Prabhupāda: So that is the difficulty at the present... A rascal is arguing. What is the meaning of his argument? He's a rascal. It has no meaning.

Devotee (3): All procrastination.

Prabhupāda: So read Bhāgavatam very seriously. Then your rascaldom will go. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata... All rascals, for their knowledge the Bhāgavata was written. Mūḍho nābhijānāti, mohito nābhijānāti. The difficulty is a rascal is thinking himself as very advanced in knowledge. That is the difficulty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the trouble with the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are creating greatest trouble.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Both are saying the same thing. Obvious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is correct? Who will decide? I accuse you, you accuse me. But who is correct? Who will decide? That is śāstra. There is no question of argument. That is called pratiṣṭhā. You will never come to any conclusion by arguing. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Somebody must decide. Judge. And that is śāstra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the use of arguing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's better to take the fruit and offer it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's right. We take it as accepted, mahā-muni kṛte. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām (SB 1.1.2).

Bhakti-prema: Vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam, śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt.

Prabhupāda: Śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt. There is no other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a very good lesson, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You do not require to be puffed-up with your so-called education. It has no value. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Four hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm arguing this point with Bhavānanda Mahārāja, but he insists that he knows, so I'm accepting his statement. Three to four hours.

Bhavānanda: Because the road is...

Bhakti-caru: Yes, it's not so good now.

Bhavānanda: So if you go too fast, then it's too bumpy. If you go slow, then it's reasonable.

Prabhupāda: So let us go. And keep me in the open air. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing is that we must present it to the kavirāja that we are depending on his care. If you actually feel this kavirāja to be good and helpful, then we must present it in such a way that "We fully depend upon your treatment. Therefore, as you... We cannot depend on any junior man, because there may be complications at any time. Therefore, when you feel Prabhupāda is ready, you take us to Māyāpur. And if your other business in Calcutta is so pressing, then take us now." And in that way he'll be forced to feel responsible, because he'll see that we are going on his account.

Prabhupāda: Talk like that.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Don't bother to come here, then.

Brahmānanda: But they treated you with much respect, though. They said that they had wanted Your Divine Grace to come because you are also a member of their steering committee. (indistinct) They also had a proposal to produce a series of different books, small books, pamphlets, forty, fifty pages, comprising selections from the Bhagavad-gītā. And these would be for specific types of persons. The books would be Bhagavad-gītā for students, Bhagavad-gītā for businessmen, Bhagavad-gītā for scientists, like that. So they want us to produce the book for the scientists, taking various quotes from Bhagavad-gītā with a short explanation of the verse. So I said one problem is that all the different groups who are assembled here will all have different interpretations of the verses. What about this? And they said, "No, no, we shouldn't interpret." I said, "Well, one reason that the young people are not taking up this Bhagavad-gītā is because they see that everyone is giving a different interpretation. Nobody is presenting it as it is, so they're confused." I was in Kashmir, I was speaking with some young boys. They were telling me they're confused by religion. They don't respect the paṇḍitas in the temples—they're all simply after money. They have no respect for religion, Hindu religion. So I mentioned this to all of them. They are all Māyāvādīs. And they argued with me. I presented arguments. They would not accept it.

Prabhupāda: They want to avoid criticism.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: I argued right back with them. I said, "You..." They were saying that we shouldn't interpret Bhagavad-gītā. I said, "Then why are you saying that Kṛṣṇa means 'divine consciousness'? Where does Kṛṣṇa say 'divine consciousness'? He says, mām, aham. He doesn't say 'divine consciousness.' He says 'to Me.' "

Prabhupāda: And all the ācāryas say. We have to follow the ācāryas. Very good. They do not answer. And they... Is it not?

Brahmānanda: But they don't listen to you. We tell them the truth, but they don't want to hear it. They just want to come and become important by their attending this meeting, become puffed up and speak their own ideas and think that they're accomplishing some real...

Prabhupāda: That may be (indistinct).

Brahmānanda: One of the delegates, he is sitting there, and he was spinning thread on a hand spinner. Then afterwards he stopped and even he fell asleep during the meeting. We were arguing about personalism and impersonalism, and Mr. Bajaj, he interrupted that "Now, you shouldn't... The purpose of this meeting is not to discuss Bhagavad-gītā but just to discuss how to promote Bhagavad-gītā."

Prabhupāda: No idea of... He has no authorized.

Page Title:Argue (Conversations (1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:06 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0
No. of Quotes:114