Dr. Patel: That type of stool which goes and manures the crop, that is good, evidently.
Prabhupāda: No, no, after all, stool, this side or that side.... The whole conclusion is that unless one is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he remains in darkness.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: And a scientist trying to unearth the secret of nature means Kṛṣṇa. He is doing work for Kṛṣṇa, and he cannot be...
Prabhupāda: No, no, everyone has to work for Kṛṣṇa. Just like a prisoner in the prison house. He is also working for government, but he is forced to do it. Then nobody can escape Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: Right, sir. But the scientist is not forced to do it. He freely does it.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. Why scientist? Even cats and dogs, they are also doing for Kṛṣṇa. You cannot.... Nobody can say...
Dr. Patel: But scientist willingly does it to unearth the secret. Don't call him a rascal. The scientist does it.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say. Kṛṣṇa says.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa says those people are rascal who does not believe in Him.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, that is the test. If you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, you are rascal. That's all. We are simple child, and Kṛṣṇa has said that anyone who does not surrendered, he's a rascal. So we say, "Are you surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?" "No." "You are a rascal." (laughter) No. Our test is very simple.
Dr. Patel: And what do you mean by surrendering, sir?
Prabhupāda: He does not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. He knows everything...
Dr. Patel: Surrendering means by mental process if I do through my mind. This is my definition. My mental process in the...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: Everything happening is.... By Kṛṣṇa's grace he's surrendering to...
Prabhupāda: Not mental. No mental concoction. Factual. Factual.
Dr. Patel: That is factual. That everything is...
Prabhupāda: No, mental concoction is not factual.