America (Conversations 1977 Jun - Nov)

Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.

Prabhupāda: All right. But outside they can do?

Rāmeśvara: Outside they have...

Prabhupāda: There is a word, devāyatana,(?) Indian. Devāyatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America... Just like in New York there's a twelve-thirteen-story building. The temple only occupies the ground floor. They can't mortgage... Sometimes if they want to get other properties, they may want to use the asset of that building. If they have this clause, they won't be able to.

Rāmeśvara: Also sometimes we have got one property in America, and you have allowed us to sell it. Just like in Miami we had to sell the property in Coconut Grove and we bought that big farm.

Prabhupāda: Like that.

Jayapatākā: Properties in America can't be sold unless...

Rāmeśvara: We had a GBC meeting, and we made a system so that there are three GBC men assigned to every American property, and they can't even be mortgaged without the signature of these three men.

Prabhupāda: And that declaration should be taken. That you are already taking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I am in the process of getting them all, oaths of allegiance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Prabhupāda said, "In September."

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just received a telegram from America about the book selling. It is from our main warehouse in Los Angeles. They report that there has been increase this month over last month. For Back to Godhead the increase has been seventy percent.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: I'm planning to take it away from him, but I can't find him. I think by the time I return to America...

Prabhupāda: It is very convincing.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: "You may pay me six hundred dollars for fifty (indistinct)."

Rādhā-vallabha: I've been trying to find him. As soon as I find him, I'll bring you the book from him.

Prabhupāda: Still paying him money?

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Everyone admits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, when you intended to go to America, everyone was advising, "Better not go. It is too dangerous for someone of your age. Do not go." Someone even said that you may not come back.

Prabhupāda: I thought all this. I went to USA not to come back. I left here hopeless. I did not want to come back. I went with determination that "If I do this job, I will survive." So Kṛṣṇa helped me. I never desired to come back. It was 197... Er, no, 1968. You all helped, so I called you: "I want to return back. There are so many secretaries."

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, there's an article that was published in a paper in America called "Moon Hoax."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I didn't see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you that article.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Time Magazine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a weekly newspaper from Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: No, there are companies. They came to us. Your theory they'll present in a scientific way, so-called scientific way.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowadays all students, scholars, going outside means going to the States. That is the...

Prabhupāda: They give facility. No, I have got good respect for America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I'm sure that the scientists, some of the leading scientists, will accept.

Prabhupāda: I therefore say America is my fatherland. India is my motherland.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in the normal dealing also...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, very much. Because vegetarian is becoming now a very popular thing. People are thinking that it is more healthy to eat vegetarian. They call it health food. It's called health food. In fact, they have places called "health food bar." Instead of getting a whiskey, they get carrot juice, like that. People come... They comes sometimes just for one glass of juice. They'll pay dollar and a half, any price. They'll pay anything in America. If you know how to sell it, you can ask any price. Now, this month of June, now the prasādam carts will be doing more and more, all day long, because New York...

Prabhupāda: No, I have seen. They are always busy. Always.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: I remember when Rāmeśvara was here, he had mentioned that in one article you had denounced the Christians strongly, so he said he left one part out because he was afraid there would be a bad reaction from the Christians in America.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. That is possible. He should be careful. Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think in addition to Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita checking the English, that Bhakti-prema Mahārāja has to check all the Sanskrit of all of the books... He's translating now, so as he's translating, he can check. He's going, starting from the First Canto.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And everyone is what?

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Akṣayānanda: Before he went to America.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means we have to canvass vigorously to get students.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: We have to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In America there are many thousands of Indians, permanent resident.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is that at this point in America there is such a thing as permanent residency. It's a law. But in India there's no such thing existing at this time.

Prabhupāda: That I know, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to create this. That is the difficulty. They have to...

Prabhupāda: No, that means incompetent government.

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Incompetent government. America knows, "If there is a useful man, why should we not give?" I know, in Montreal there was a black man, what is called? Consulate?

Devotee (1): We have no limes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where's Bhakti-caru?

Devotee (1): At the go-down. We have got lemons but no limes. Are lemons all right?

Prabhupāda: What is that lemon?

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what kind of preaching he has done? Nobody knows him. This common sense they haven't got. And here it is advertised, "Vivekananda has converted whole America into Vedantist." (laughs) And they take money for that. (pause) Pradyumna may see me ten minutes a day. That will be simplified. He comes after week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I talked to him. I asked him, "Why don't you discuss your questions with Bhakti-prema Swami first? And then, if he cannot answer, then go ask Śrīla Prabhupāda."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He may come during my massage time daily, ten minutes.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If required, you can show this line to Mr. Koku(?). In foreign countries they are no more interested in philosophical speculation. Actually they are not, neither in America nor India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "Lord Caitanya did not let them escape, so He..."

Prabhupāda: Our books are sold not for philosophical speculation but practical solution of the problems. The philosophical classes are now being closed everywhere.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially England and America.

Prabhupāda: Canada also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Canada, yeah.

Prabhupāda: In Canada all big, big professors in university, they are Indians. In the education they are expert. That means they have got brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the Indians have the best brain.

Prabhupāda: And these shoe-makers, dentists, (indistinct) them. Technician, that's all. Phalena paricīyate. What class of work he is engaged?

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupāda: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja? Well, he's taking two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He's now paid off ten thousand. Every month he's sending regularly five thousand. He's done that regularly now. And then he's taken another loan...

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Yes, the posts will change now because it is very good man over here, new business in America and on the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: And "Get out. Get out."

Mr. Myer: This "Get out..."

Prabhupāda: And "Get out" means another ten thousand rupees. He has to go out, again come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big harassment.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like now...

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The government is not helping me even in this way. What they'll do? And...

Mr. Myer: Because Indira Gandhi had very bad relations with America. This is the problem. And she was trying to make very bad propaganda about the ISKCON in India.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Mr. Myer: Now she is gone, so everything is fine.

Prabhupāda: She was making propaganda? I...

Mr. Myer: She was trying to say that this ISKCON is cheat.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of support. It is etiquette.

Mr. Myer: It is etiquette now.

Akṣayānanda: Etiquette.

Prabhupāda: American is giving. I am permanent resident of America. If they are giving Indians permanent resident for some business, why not Americans?

Mr. Myer: Well, that is because Indira... She was prime minister, you see. She was very bad...

Prabhupāda: So that is gone.

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Alps no one can go there. There's places in the Alps. There's simply so many mountains, no one can go there. The map as the modern people show it—India, Africa, Europe, America, North America, South America—do we accept that much?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do we accept the contour of the continents? Do we accept the general continents?

Prabhupāda: We accept nothing of their theory. They are prejudiced and nonsense. Formerly they were speaking that the world is flat. Now they have changed: "It is round." So what is the value of his estimate? And you'll find in that book, "probably."

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is there, given in the book. What you are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the book, according to Bhāgavata and the picture that we have drawn, there's only one way to go from America to India.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's only one way to go from America to India, not two—at least to our vision. So far, we have not been able to explain it. That's our problem.

Prabhupāda: I do not... What...

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not... What...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'd better... I can bring our diagram.

Prabhupāda: Here is America. Here is India. If you go immediately, then one way, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only one way. But they go two ways.

Prabhupāda: Two way?

Śatadhanya: From New York or from San Francisco.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśodā-nandana: Not accepting the authority. The problem is the Pacific Ocean, according to Jambūdvīpa, for us it is the salt ocean. So the first question that Mahārāja was raising, that they will ask, how do we go between the west coast of America, which is very tiny, and Japan, as this according to their calculation we go west and we arrive around. And you keep still going further and you arrive back in America. The point about the Himalayas, that we did not raise, because that we could well understood. The Himalayas is much broader and much bigger than they think. We can fully understand it. But that point, from common-sense point of view we couldn't exactly understand. We thought of it all afternoon, and we came up with a few ideas, but we wanted to hear what Your Divine Grace...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our question was mostly coming out of how to draw what the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is saying. We're not supporting any kind of mundane argument, nor do we have any doubt in Bhāgavatam. We're simply trying to understand the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: And that is your credit.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The lobsters, I do not know. They take it from Indian foods. It is from Cochin. Cochin, South India. I do not know... Huge quantity of lobsters are there, and they are exported to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they also have them in America, Prabhupāda. There's a lot of them in the whole eastern seaboard.

Prabhupāda: But in India, they take fresh, lobster.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do that in America sometimes in the so-called high-class restaurants. You choose your lobster, and then you sit down and they boil it alive.

Prabhupāda: Fresh.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Actually in America, when you criticize someone who is highly regarded, people are very interested to read it. That is the American spirit. So I think by purposely singling out historical figures who are considered good welfare workers and showing that actually their welfare platform failed, it will make interesting reading and will help to establish the real platform of welfare in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I also want very much to write this book on men..." And then it says here, he says, "I... We decided on a number of historical figures. Because they lacked Kṛṣṇa in their philosophy and activities, their program for welfare failed. I want to deal with the figure of Mahatma Gandhi and also with the daridra-nārāyaṇa philosophy which was taught before his time by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda." He says, "When viewed in the light of Bhāgavata philosophy, these personalities will have to be criticized for their failure to put Kṛṣṇa in their teachings. My question is whether there is any objection on your part to a book which will criticize Ramakrishna and Vivekananda."

Prabhupāda: I think that is not good. You should go positively instead of attacking some particular person. They will never admit that they have been failure.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is waste of time. Don't write such book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. He says, "In addition, I plan to write on other highly regarded welfare workers such as the American Civil Rights worker Martin Luther King." Boy, if he does that, every black person in America will hate us. It'll create many enemies. This book will be the biggest enemy-creator. We already have enough enemies.

Prabhupāda: That will be embarrassment. Yes, I said, "I do not know this." Bas. Finished. And that means it is not so important that I should know it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We take Kṛṣṇa's word. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very positive. He says, "One additional note. Our Library Party in America recently attended the annual convention of the largest organization of libraries." That's called the American Library Association. It's made up of all of the libraries in the US, and it's the most prestigious library association. "At this convention, the booth of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust won the first prize..."

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is our triumph.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "Maybe he was important here, but we never heard of him in America."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is a review. "From Books West: A magazine of the book trade, from June 1977." It says, "Readings in Vedic Literature: the Tradition Speaks for Itself, by Satsvarūpa dāsa Goswami..."

Prabhupāda: So this kind of, that "I do not know who is Vivekananda." "Oh! You do not know?" Then you can know what he is. Then he can say, "This is his philosophy." Then you criticize, "This is nonsense!" Let him present Vivekananda's philosophy and smash it. Let the other party present Gandhi's philosophy and you crush it by kicking. That is the opportunity. Otherwise it will be the same philosophy, to kill that... What is that animal?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the... He says it will help its sales in America. Then this article...

Prabhupāda: It is very thoughtful article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... This?

Prabhupāda: No. That you were reading.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's being investigated by a Congressional subcommittee in America now, Transcendental Meditation. But there's no individual parents getting angry because it doesn't change anything.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't make you change any different. Actually no one even recognizes any difference after following it. They're fools to begin with, and they come out fools at the end. It says here, it quotes Dr. Stillson Judah. Unfortunately it doesn't quote Dr. Stillson Judah right about us. It seems that Stillson Judah has also written a book about Moon.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the money is coming unless Kṛṣṇa sends? Did I go to America with some money?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty rupees.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And one tin box. (laughs) Give up this mistaken idea that "If we get some large sum of money from our father, then we shall be happy." That is not... That is wrong idea. Happiness depends on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can take advantage from your father that you may not live uncomfortably. That's all, that much. That I am making sufficient arrangement. In your present position you'll never be disturbed. Now try to become happy by advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can do. Kīrtanānanda can do. And our Satsvarūpa can do. So these three, you can give, begin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supposing someone is in America, should they simply write directly to Kīrtanānanda or Satsvarūpa?

Prabhupāda: Nearby. Jayatīrtha can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayatīrtha.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānan..., er, Bhagavān. And he can do also. Harikeśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And... Five, six men, you divide who is nearest.

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And Hṛdayānanda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. South America.

Prabhupāda: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right... That will depend on discretion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On discretion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's for first and second initiations.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī Hiraṇyagarbha and Śrī Sudarśana in jeweled thrones. This is making the top of the domes. On your Palace there's... The top domes have lotus petals coming under them. So over that will go the domes. This is very big. The devotees are making the whole thing themselves. This shows devotees. See, this is a form, and into this form they'll pour concrete and other things and make shapes like these lotus petals. It's all hand done. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." This is pictures of saṅkīrtana in Pittsburgh and Wheeling, West Virginia. "Iṣṭagoṣṭhi: Questions and answers discussed between His Holiness Kīrtanānanda Swami and members and guests of New Vrindaban." "Cow-Kathā." (laughter) Like kṛṣṇa-kathā, cow-kathā. "Seeking Refuge from the Kali-yuga." This is from your old Back to Godheads. I remember in the first printings in America this appeared-Nārada-Bhakti-Sūtra.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Upendra: The colony.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what it is. Now you can walk there, and you don't even know you're in America. All you see are devotees, devotees' homes. And it's always growing. It's ever-increasing.

Prabhupāda: "Transcendental meditation." What meditation? Fifteen minutes—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it helps you sleep better. They claim that Transcendental Meditation helps you sleep more soundly.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And life is meant for sleeping?

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To the Western karmīs, sleep is a luxury, 'cause they have no peace of mind. So anything that can give them sleep, they like 'cause they can't get to sleep. They try pills, so many things. Of course, we don't sleep much either, but that is by choice. I tried one of those balls of bread. In America we call them "cannonballs."

Prabhupāda: Which ball?

Upendra: Lakta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How do you like?

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very tasteful. In America sometimes they put either butter or honey on them also to give it a little sweet taste.

Upendra: But they cook them in the oven, and these are cooked on cow dung. These are cooked on the cow dung, khandi, khandi.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was wondering how you were able to chew them.

Prabhupāda: No, I could not.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they know the art.

Upendra: Many years ago they sold one plastic ring like this as a toy, and it became a craze all over America. Everyone bought little ones and big ones, called hoop, Hula-hoop, and they played with it, one ring, plastic ring.

Prabhupāda: There are so many things. I saw. You have to know how to make people fool. This art you have to know. Then you can have money. "Moon walk."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The government is the most expert at making people fool.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If they can find out the snake behind the earthworm, then they'll be finished. That there is. There is no case. Simply it is maneuver. Communist government wants to drive away the Americans. This is the plan. And the government is anxious to keep good relationship with America. And the Communist wants to drive them away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Now the American Consulate is also involved. That makes it very jeopardizing for the Communists. If they act the wrong way, then the Central Government will lose its position with the American Embassy. It will look very bad for the Central Government. They're not going to let the state act in any way that will jeopardize their position. The two acting together, the Central Government and the American Consulate...

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Howling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you saw so many people who were taking it in America.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent. Therefore Devānanda presented it: "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is hippies' movement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Devānanda. I remember at one initiation ceremony you asked... It was Kauśalyā. You said to her, "What are the four principles?" So she stated them. Then you said, "What is the fifth?" So she didn't know what to answer. Then you said, "No LSD."

Prabhupāda: This Kauśalyā girl was loitering in the street.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Change, change for the worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even in America things were better.

Prabhupāda: There things are changing fast.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we keep on going strong.

Prabhupāda: Every middle-class man could hold some festival, and society feast very occasionally. Now cannot, they cannot even receive a guest.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. By procession...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The early pioneers in America, they would also go in the wagons, covered wagons. Now I understand we have one wagon going in America. It's heading towards Washington under the banner of "Simple Living and High Thinking." That will be unique.

Prabhupāda: And everywhere, how they were well dressed, well fed, and rich in milk products. When called, people, the brāhmaṇas give in charity cows, not at all poor.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda's the president of the farm, and he's the sannyāsī there. And he's also in charge of the Rādhā-Dāmodara office. While Tripurāri Mahārāja travels in the field, he heads up the office. And the office is in a city right near the farm. So he goes half the week to the farm, half the week to the office to manage. Remember I mentioned, Dhṛṣṭadyumna's brother is an architect. So they're planning the farm for building it. It's called a model community. They're going to make it New Varṣāṇā Model Community. Everything will be planned out ahead of time—where the cows will be living—from the point of Vedic conception. It won't be hodgepodge. And they feel that it will gain tremendous interest amongst the prominent persons of America who want to visit a model community. Many universities and schools will send groups of students to visit and see. That's their idea.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not in the temple? Why? If he pays, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a place like Bombay where we have so many buildings, in the temple. But sometimes... Just like in America, if there's only one building with only...

Prabhupāda: No, America also... Just like Los Angeles we have got.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. There there are apartments.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to arrange like that. They should not live completely independent. That will be future danger.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Temple, he can take one room, pay for it. He wants to pay. That is also payment. And further, if he can pay, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America, supposing a householder family pays for a room in our temple building. So they can have their sex life and family life?

Prabhupāda: If they can pay for prasādam also, it is nice. Sex... Husband-wife living, there must be sex, so who can...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can that be in the same building as the brahmacārī ashram?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, so many other gṛhastha tenants.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wherever there is scarcity, that is the system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America that is not there.

Prabhupāda: America, enough places.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have paying a few months' rent, but not pagri.

Prabhupāda: There are so many houses. Why they should pay?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's true.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America they have similar game, but the different points are properties. It's all business. They made a very involved business game.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same principle. If you get on the wrong spot, you have to go to jail. That's what they have. They put you in jail. Different culture. Demoniac culture.

Prabhupāda: Just see practically. Indira Gandhi, she came to a point, and then falls again. Is it not? The same golo dhana(?). She was all-in-all powerful, and once again finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In terms of time? You mean flight time instead of stopping in New York, what is the benefit of flying direct? Just the landing time in New York you save. The flight is pretty much the same. You save at least an hour to an hour and a half, two hours. Because when the flight goes from London to New York, when it first hits America, it hits America north of Canada practically, and then they go down the eastern seaboard. It hits Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and then it goes south down Massachusetts, like that, Connecticut, and then to New York.

Prabhupāda: But it does not stop.

Prabhupāda: ...Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, if we celebrate... If you're in America for Janmāṣṭamī or Vyāsa-pūjā day, all the devotees in the whole country will come to wherever you are. Thousand, two thousand will come. It will be the most fantastic...

Prabhupāda: Śrī Kṛṣṇa caitanya rādhā kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya wants that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) And for Kṛṣṇa's grace. This new building, it may not divert attention from Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: Why not? Oh, yes. America's money collect and send. So that is my proposal, American money and give this culture. They are squandering so much money. Channelize to spend through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Their money will be properly utilized and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be spread.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "People say they have never had such wonderful tasty food. If we can get money from Food Relief, it should be sent directly here."

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: American (indistinct) is nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The Society's founder is A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. He left India at an advanced age aboard the merchant ship Jaladuta with only seven dollars and a trunk containing scriptures he had translated into English. The ship's captain became Śrīla Prabhupāda's friend and purchased the first books distributed in the US. Śrīla Prabhupāda had been instructed by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, his spiritual preceptor, to broadcast Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the English language. That request was made in 1922. In the years that followed Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote an English commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā and started an English magazine in 1944, which he wrote, printed and distributed himself. He arrived in America in September 1965, and by July of '66 he had formed ISKCON Incorporated. Historically this corporation is part of the spiritual tradition whose followers preserve the pure teachings of the scriptures such as Vedas, Upaniṣads and Purāṇas." He goes on and on. Should I read on?

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Prabhupāda: No, we are the first publisher in the world. That is already recognized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At that recent library convention in the United States, four hundred publishers in America participated, every major publisher. And our booth was awarded the first place amongst all of the publishers' booths.

Dr. Kapoor: Where? In the quality of printing or amount of sales?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, generally they give it based on different factors. The quality of the printing, the sales, and the booth appearance, presentation.

Dr. Kapoor: This is solid work.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It advertises all your books. Plus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I had signed a contract with the biggest mail-order house in India, called Mail Order Sales. And this week their full-page advertisement on the Bhagavad-gītā is reaching 25,000 households. Their ad wasn't ready, but they are sending it to me in few days. It's a very beautiful ad. They have a monthly newspaper called Mail Order News, and that they've given a whole page. But they pay for it. We give them a straight commission on sales. Just like in America you have Book of the Month Club and selling books by mail. This is very big. Plus we are now doing the Bhaktivedanta Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge. We are preparing a brochure just like this. This is a Brittanica Encyclopedia advertisement. So we're going to have your nineteen or twenty Bhāgavatams here. The artists are working on it and this is going to be sent to about thirty thousand households. These are just for households, not libraries or anyone, just as selling to businessmen and executives.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's going to do this?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mail Order Sales. It's a company that specializes in mail orders. This will be very good.

Prabhupāda: Everything you do, it is... Now, utilize. So one book has come only.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I told England to take five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere they have made colonies. So I am getting very good news, book distribution, from Europe and America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Rāmeśvara Swami told me the book distribution has doubled in America.

Prabhupāda: And Communist country wonderfully.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you that letter that I got from Russia inviting us to come to the...

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. They have sold at least thirty to forty lakhs' worth Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gujarati. Gujarati you can send anywhere. It will be... Any outside, in outside, outside India, any country, Gujaratis are there—Africa, Europe, America. Africa is Gujarati country. England. England also. All the guests we receive from pandals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Patels.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: San Francisco too.

Prabhupāda: Eighty percent, they're from Gujarat.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. This should not...

Governor: The difficulty because of not ours, but what happened in our Madras state, there is that Pondicherry. Pondicherry has made one Auroville. Auroville is international town. There are more than four to five hundred foreigners from various countries of Europe and America. Families also. Now they and those Aurobindo society people, they are going on always, some disputes. And that they have developed so much that physical violence, traffic obstruction... And law and order is not there. So I receive complaints from both that "You send your police. Help us. Help us," like that. So that has come to the notice of government of India. And so they are worried that we must have some restriction on so many foreigners living here and creating disturbance.

Prabhupāda: No, these foreigners...

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But you can consider our situation, that such big, big establishment and Deity... Here is a big establishment. In Māyāpur there is Deity also. They are trained up. They are helping me. So kindly... At least we have submitted some list. So give them either permanent residence or citizenship. In America I have got permanent residency, so why not here? If there is no such arrangement, give them citizenship. They have nothing...

Governor: I am meeting the Home Minister tomorrow also. I will also talk to him, Charan Singh. The meeting is. He's mainly going.

Prabhupāda: That means they condemned. They tried for the last, at least, hundred years to expand them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It didn't work.

Prabhupāda: They dared to attack America even in that Pearl Harbor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like that was crazy, craziness. How they could have thought to attack America? Like a mosquito trying to kill an elephant.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Apad kare viparīta-buddhi.(?)

Bhakti-caru: Some say that it was framed, because that way only got America involved in the war. And American generals knew about that attack on Pearl Harbor.

Prabhupāda: And why they should attack? If they wanted to live there, they're welcome. Why should they attack? Viparīta-buddhi. Many Chinese people were living in America peacefully. They could also live, go. America would have welcomed them. They're very intelligent, artisans. Why attack? That's all right. Naturally it will be September.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Naturally it will be September? (Hindi in background)

Prabhupāda: Yes, because... Who are they? Our men? Talking?

Prabhupāda: You take this opportunity to give force(?) there. It is great movement. If impartial inquiry is made by the Central Government, everything will be complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And in the meantime, regarding America, he knows how we are. He can give report about what we are like in America. He's visited there.

Prabhupāda: He can give. Everyone can write very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I mean he's very favorable towards us, so let him tell what we've done in America. We have wonderful temples. He knows this, the ambassador.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is a... There was a great Bengali poet. He was very rich man, Micheal, Madhusūdana Datta. So he went to England, and because he was extravagant, he spent all his money. So he was in difficulty. He begged some money from his countrymen, help him. But nobody gave him. Only there was a big paṇḍita, Isvaracandra Vidyasagar. He gave him the money. He thought that "Such a big man is in need of money. Let me... He may pay or not." So after receiving that money, he thanked Isvaracandra Vidyasagar, that "You have got courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother." He was poet, so he gave these two examples: the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. So you are Englishman. You are famous for your forefathers' courage to expand British Empire. The America is also your creation.

Prabhupāda: That we can spare. Arrange for that, and make a stronghold there with the cooperation of government officials. I'll pay six hundred dollars. You'll get. I'll pay or anyone. I have got some money in London, also in America. So you have some bank account, and I shall advise Lloyd's Bank will send.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might like that. He's British, and the money will come from England.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a new twist. Usually they're always seeing our money coming from America, but his money will come from England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have got six thousand pounds.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good amount.

Prabhupāda: At least for few months I can continue. This is first business. Do it. And another point, that formerly the Britishers expanded empire. Now we have got better service. They... You expand the empire of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is also the same view, but it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa has given you the ability. Do it enthusiastically with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother.