America (Conversations 1976 Jul - Aug)

Expressions researched:
"america" |"america's" |"americas"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the same thing. Just the child is playing, but if you say "My dear child, you please take education, otherwise you'll suffer." "Oh, I don't..." Child does not like. He wants to play. That is childish, or foolish.

Rūpānuga: He doesn't want to be educated.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for becoming educated about Brahman. They will not take it. They want to remain animals, eating and sleeping, this animal life. Eat nicely, sleep nicely, have sex life nicely, defend nicely, that's all. Nicely, according to the standard of the body. Here in America, to have a conveyance nicely like a car like this, but in Indian village, a bullock cart is nicely. So this nicely and that nicely, according to the body. You have got this American body, this is nicely. He has got Indian body, that is nicely. But the feeling of niceness is there and here. We are having sex in a very nice apartment, decorated and so on, so on, and a dog is having sex on the street. But the pleasure of sex life is both the same. But we are thinking this is nice. But that is not the fact. The niceness, the feelings of niceness, is there and here.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But they are simply interested with the pots. External. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye... (SB 7.5.31). They are thinking by changing the pot the advancement of civilization will increase. And that is going on. Just like America. You have got very big, big roads, nice cars, everything. You are changing the pot, but the eatable is the same.

Vipina: I heard a nice example given the other day about how living entities are suffering. A black widow, male and female black widow spiders, have sex life. After the sex life the female spider consumes the male spider, eats him alive.

Prabhupāda: What's that? Spider.

Vipina: Black widow. She will eat him after sex, kill him.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So we are also killing by and by, and she kills immediately. That is the difference.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Vipina: Those are melons, Prabhupāda. Watermelons, sweet melons, they are the best.

Prabhupāda: I take America as my fatherland. India is motherland, and here is fatherland. (laughs) So many fathers. My father was very affectionate to me. He would do everything for me. I lost one father, I have got so many fathers.

Vipina: Jaya. We'd like to keep it that way, Prabhupāda. If you'd let us, we'd like to keep it that way.

Vṛṣākapi: We want to take care of you forever, Prabhupāda.

Vipina: What do you say, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That, everyone appreciated that in India, that the American fathers keeping him. Just like keeping him in cotton. (laughs) They admit that. Where is salt? There are many flies here?

Vipina: Not many, and we have screens also in the windows, so there shouldn't be too much disturbance from them.

Prabhupāda: Fruits are so nice. Kṛṣṇa has given fruit. They are locally grown?

Vṛṣākapi: No, Prabhupāda. Not too many. They all come from other parts of the country.

Prabhupāda: Your country?

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is that building?

Vṛṣākapi: This is the neighborhood. It is a very rich neighborhood, Prabhupāda. Very wealthy. This is the most wealthy neighborhood, practically all of America. The builders are putting up houses all in here just like that house over there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bungalow type (?). Very good. This is very nice. Is it not? Very nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very peaceful.

Vṛṣākapi: Many senators and congressmen, they live out here.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They ever come to the Sunday feast?

Vṛṣākapi: Some do. One man does. We've been here a short time, only four months. So we have to advertise more so people will come on the Sunday feast. But I think we will have thousands.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) ...trees very long?

Vṛṣākapi: Just pine trees and oak trees. No fruit trees. (break) He was run over by a car, he was intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then? What happened, he was not identified?

Vṛṣākapi: They said that he lived in these woods back here, way back in the woods.

Prabhupāda: Oh, drunkard.

Room Conversation -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: ...Deities we have ordered. They will be arriving in two months. Also we have Prabhupāda-Bhaktisiddhānta deities. They will be coming also. We will be the first in America to have Prabhupāda, Bhaktisiddhānta and Sītā-Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Vṛṣākapi: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This rasagullā is nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not as good as Keśī dāsa.

Prabhupāda: They make it like Keśī dāsa in New Vrindaban. (long pause) Water.

Vṛṣākapi: Here, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...to purchase it? And he has to sell to us. Nobody will purchase.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Rūpānuga: They say past a certain age...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this propaganda-milk is bad—so why from the very beginning you give milk to the children?

Rūpānuga: Actually, in America they do not feed the children by the breast. They use cow's milk practically from birth.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There was an article in the newspaper about that today. Very interesting. It said in the newspaper that if women stop breast feeding their children they will have to increase the population of dairy cows tremendously. A very small percentage do now.

Prabhupāda: They have to increase?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: More and more cows to produce enough milk to feed children.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we are killing children. There is no problem, we shall kill our.... Why do you call? Let us kill, wholesale. And go to ball dance.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, as young children we used to have to put our hand over our heart and say a pledge to the flag, in America. And if one didn't say it, they were thrown out of school. They changed that law now. It's not required. It used to be.

Prabhupāda: Mental concoction will be changed. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Their only business is mental concoction: today it is good, tomorrow it is bad. That is mental concoction. If mind likes it, it is good; if mind does not like it, it is bad. No standard. (break)

Hari-śauri: They have hospitals for animals, if your animal gets sick.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly dogs and cats, birds.

Hari-śauri: The animal that was making the noise was the man on the porch. (laughs)

Vipina: Many people have horses in the neighborhood. They have horse shows, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They spend lots of money on fancy horses, and in this way, one becomes greater than another by showing his horses. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...slam the door. The door is secure or not? (break) ...trying to find out that happiness from this body, that is mistake. That happiness is there in the spirit soul, not this body. Happiness is our right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, we want happiness. Mistaking, where is the happiness. The living being, he is to enjoy happiness. But they are trying to give happiness to the body, which is dead. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). The body is dead from the very beginning, but they are trying to draw happiness from the dead matter.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Devotee (3): (indistinct) can be cured by the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. But if it's necessary that the senses be controlled and the mind be controlled to understand spiritual subject matter, how is it that a person whose mind is completely out of his control, by chanting the holy name of the Lord can become spiritually advanced? (break)

Devotee (4): We will go on ten thousands years and they are celebrating two hundred years' anniversary. Maybe they'll go on another hundred years, maybe. Already there is a big decline in their civilization. We are just coming alive, being born. We have a great future. For the Bicentennial they made a big cake five building stories high, and they brought it in big trucks.

Prabhupāda: Cake?

Devotee (4): Big cake, birthday cake for America. And then the health department came and condemned it after people had been standing three, four hours in line to get a piece, because it had gone stale.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): How is it that these men are so attractive to the Indian people?

Prabhupāda: They have become fools. Fool's paradise, they have been made.

Dr. Sukla: Because Vivekananda became very popular in America, and...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Who became popular in America?

Dr. Sukla: Vivekananda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No he didn't. That's just propaganda.

Dr. Sukla: That's propaganda, yes, but...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I never heard of Vivekananda until I went to Bengal.

Devotee (1): The Vedanta Society was formed...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the other day we spoke that... Now in Vṛndāvana, you know we have got our temple. So the Ramakrishna Mission, they have got their temple also. In our temple, thousands and thousands of these Americans came, and not a single one went here. If they had preached anything, then why these American boys and girls are not interested, "Let us see where the Ramakrishna Mission stays." They do not know even. There are many present here who went to Vṛndāvana, and none of them were interested to see. Why? lf there was any propaganda... This is practical proof. Why none of them were interested, "Oh, here is also Ramakrishna Mandir, let us go here"? Nobody. Is it practical?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called? No, another. So many. Actually, speaking for the last at least two hundred years, many swamis, people came here, but not a single person was converted to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is history. What do you think, Sukla? You have studied. So many swamis, yogis, scholars came, and they spoke on Bhagavad-gītā and other, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Well, I mean for the foreigners.

Prabhupāda: But here is grammar. Harināmāmṛta, all examples, words are harināmāmṛta. Yes, these are the list of, apart from European, America. "Cc" means Caitanya-caritāmṛta, "SB" means Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, standing order.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In addition to other works also. This is within the last few months. They just started after our Māyāpur festival.

Devotee (3): In Europe, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a very nice Hungarian boy, he's a translator. He doesn't know English expertly, but I kept talking to him, he was working on translating.

Prabhupāda: How he'll translate?

Devotee (3): He's a Hungarian and he knows Russian also.

Prabhupāda: If he does not know English, how he can translate?

Devotee (3): He knows English quite fluently, but he feels not so expert in it. He's developing his expertise for English too. (break)

Prabhupāda: Everyone is engaged in the business of sense gratification. Just like last night millions of men went to see the firework. So the firework as well as the people went to see there, the expenditure was very heavy, I think, total?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So we wanted to travel in a certain way so we require some machine, and Kṛṣṇa has given us this machine manufactured by material nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So Kṛṣṇa is within the core of heart of everyone. He knows what I want. He's giving us facilities. We wanted to enjoy this material world, and He's still giving direction, "All right, you want to get this facility, sit down on it and travel as you like." So we are getting different machines. Sometimes the human body machine, sometimes dog machine, sometimes cat machine, sometimes demigod machine. We are desiring all these things. American machine, Indian machine. When you are in Indian machine you are thinking "I am Indian. My business is to satisfy Indian interests." You Americans are thinking "This is American machine; it should be used for America's benefit." These are upādhi. Upādhi means designation. Neither I am Indian nor American nor cat nor dog. But as soon as I get a particular type of body, I think that I am cat, I am dog, I am Indian, I am America, I am black, I am white, this. This is our position. And people are struggling on this understanding, "I am this body." So long we think like that, "I am this body," we are no better than cats and dogs. He is also thinking "I am this body." Is it not? What do you think, Mr. Sukla? If I think I am this body, the dog is also thinking "I am this body," then where is the difference between the dog and me? What do you think, Mr... How shall I address you?

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This young boy guru, when they bring up this subject matter to the Indians who have come from India who are working here in America, they feel a little embarrassed, loss for words or explanation what to say, that this is their Indian culture, they feel they don't know how to represent themselves.

Mr. Deyani: How to represent the Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is my question. How to represent it? What to say to them?

Prabhupāda: What is your question? That means you do not know about him.

Mr. Deyani: We don't know about those gurus...

Prabhupāda: You say "I do not know about him," that's all. The simple truth that "I do not know about it." Why you are very serious about him? It is not very important matter.

Mr. Deyani: I even don't know who is he. (laughter) To tell you the truth, I even don't know. (laughter) My wife, she sometimes, why she watch him on the television. There was a program or something like that, that now we, I don't watch that anymore.

Prabhupāda: It is not important.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have given you spelling. Or Pradyumna can give it to you.

Rūpānuga: That is very artistic also, very nice, literature, very nice.

Prabhupāda: And in bracket you can give "In Scientific Knowledge."

Rūpānuga: "In Scientific Knowledge." In English?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (in room) Make that attempt. Then they will know, "Yes America." So these pictures are available to be seen?

Yadubara: I think today they will, by this evening, they will...

Prabhupāda: How many?

Yadubara: I took about... Well, one boy is doing it for free of charge, he's producing ten of them just to get idea. If we want more, we can get more. I took about twenty-five.

Prabhupāda: All detailed?

Yadubara: Some detail, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. Yes, you can close. (door closes) One set to Gargamuni and one set to Saurabha and one set for me, three sets. And if you like, you can keep one set for you. The negative will be with you. What is the height altogether?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And there is chance. Simply by chanting you can attract so many people.

Devotee (2): Yes, I think so. They're coming already. You chanted and so many people came.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Already in the, your English vocabulary, in America, actually they use many Sanskrit vocabularies now.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they believe that (indistinct) is the chairman of religion at Emery University, he told me that in about thirty years or so this, our movement...

Prabhupāda: They're giving back toward meaning.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: You can learn so many... Sanskrit...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Our students to pick up some Sanskrit words. Ātmā, jīva, like that. He was telling me that in about thirty or forty years our ISKCON, our movement will have a great impact in the social life there.

Prabhupāda: We are giving all, all round enlightenment. Bhagavad-gītā is full of information from all standpoint. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). We are now in such a downtrodden position, the whole human... He must accept. There is... The civilization is doomed. (pause) What do they explain about so many varieties of life? How do they come?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You like our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? You know how we have got New Vrindaban here in America? We are giving protection to the cows. In New Orleans, and what other places?

Vipina: Virginia, Rūpānuga's farm.

Hari-śauri: Tennessee, Bridesville.

Indian man (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, some of Indian people, they quote Veda and say that beef-eating was recommended in Vedas, and I don't know whether it's true or not, but they quote Vedas, Atharva-veda and...

Prabhupāda: Do they give any quotation?

Indian man (1): No, they don't give any quotation, but...

Prabhupāda: Rascals. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What is this picture?

Mr. Boyd: That's just down the street from Mr. Dubhai, that's a big tree, it's an Indian tree, I don't know what it is, it grows up and down both. It happened to be in his yard. (laughter) Another highlight of the day.

Hari-śauri: Banyan tree.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have banyan trees in America. In Florida.

Mr. Boyd: Oh, is that banyan tree? You see, they are not particular to this area.

Hari-śauri: Hawaii's full of them.

Mr. Boyd: That's not what I find in the backyard. That was the first time I'd seen one. They indicated that the day before, they'd walked by there and was startled, there was an elephant standing under it. First time they'd seen one. Of course, you know, it's out of environment, if all of a sudden you see one, you don't realize it. I didn't realize it either, but in India elephants are commonplace. But it's not common for me to be in India. (laughter) I was very impressed with the cleanliness of the country, though, in that area.

Prabhupāda: Hm, very nice pictures.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We think, according to our philosophy, everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and we are all sons. So everyone has the right to use the property of the father. So that consciousness should be spread. This barrier of nationalism is against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why there should be? Actually everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). The sky, the land, the water, they are all creation of God, God's property. But we should not take more than what is allotted to us. That is real life. Otherwise, I have practically studied that there is enough land. Just like in your country, in America, there is enough land, not utilized. They can be properly utilized, and if food grains are produced, there is no question of scarcity of food all over the world. Not only in America—in Africa, in Australia. (break) If we get nourishing food, every one of us, so there is no economic problem.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is when you do not know what is the ultimate duty. Because you are thinking that you are Indian, somebody is thinking he's America, somebody is thinking he's this or that. So there the advice is try to relinquish the result of your action. Don't be attached to the resultant action of your duty. The idea is to become detached, but because you cannot do it immediately, therefore the advice is, "All right, you remain in your so-called duty, but don't be attached to the result of your actions." Then where the action will go? Suppose I am a businessman and I have earned, say, two million dollars. So mā phaleṣu kadācana, the result is already there, what shall I do it? Two millions of dollars, I shall throw it in the street? What do you think?

Dr. Sharma: Not to be attached to it.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In this country or that country, there is no such distinction. This patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, any country you can get it. You cannot say in America there is no patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, in India only. No. Everywhere it is available. Therefore this general prescription is there. Even Kṛṣṇa does not say Gaṅgā-jala. Because Gaṅgā, if you say Gaṅgā-jala, that is available in India. He says toyam, any jala, any water. Because any water, as soon as touches the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, it becomes Gaṅgā. Why Gaṅgā is so adored? Because it is coming from the toes of Kṛṣṇa. So any water touching Kṛṣṇa's toes, that becomes Gaṅgā.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But they are big, big men. What can be done? Here also Christians are not very happy also. And there, Hindus are not happy. So where shall I go? (laughter) I cannot stay here, neither in India. This is my position. Neither in my temple. This is my position. Nor India, nor America, nor Europe, nor any place. So nārada muni bhajaya vīṇā. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: No, I have no, I mean to say, grudge against. If Kṛṣṇa wants... In old age I was living a retired life in Vṛndāvana. He asked me "Get out, go to America." So I came. At the age of seventy years, actually nobody goes out of home. But Kṛṣṇa asked me, "Get out and go." So I came. And although I have got the best temple in Vṛndāvana, I cannot live there. But a fighting soldier is honored by the government. He maybe dies, he is recognized by the government, "Here is a soldier, laid down his life by fighting." So we prefer that life. We shall die fighting with māyā.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Janice Johnson: Who have you visited with while you've been here? Have you stayed here, or have you gone out and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am in the Western country for the last ten years, sometimes Europe, sometimes America. I have got more than one hundred temples all over the world, so I go and visit and instruct my disciples about this movement.

Janice Johnson: But you indicated in..., before you came here, that you were interested in meeting some leaders in the city. Have you met any of them?

Prabhupāda: Leaders?

Hari-śauri: She's wondering whether you met with any political leaders.

Prabhupāda: No. I have no interest with the political leaders because it is not a political movement. It is spiritual movement.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We have... No, we have got there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have, have got our school there. We have about seven or eight schools now all throughout America. We've actually expanded.

Janice Johnson: But wasn't that school moved to India?

Prabhupāda: No, it is maintained, not in large scale, but in small scale.

Hari-śauri: Rather than have one large central school, we have smaller.

Janice Johnson: Seven or eight schools around the U.S.? Where are they?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Around various farming communities especially.

Interviewer: How many members do you now have? How many followers?

Hari-śauri: About ten thousand.

Interviewer: Ten thousand? That is in this country or is that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It was published in the first-class place, and the first-class bookseller who was selling this, Tata Spingh(?), that was the most important bookseller in Calcutta.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Did you send copies to all the libraries?

Prabhupāda: No, they were doing everything. They might have sent to America like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We saw lots of Śrīla Prabhupāda's books, recent books, in that library. Library of Congress has those books.

Prabhupāda: Inside, inside the... Have you got the photograph of inside?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's photograph of Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And... This is not the copy that I wanted. Then Bhaktivinoda. (aside:) That is wrong, I think.

Prabhupāda: So 1944, and it is '76. Thirty-two years?

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: I don't know. Generally the bookstores, they don't take our books because our distributors are distributing on the street in front of the bookstore, they say it is competition. But the college bookstores, they all take our books. We just got a report from Satsvarūpa Mahārāja that this past month of June in America they sold seventy-five standing orders. And that is remarkable, because all the schools are closed in June, and still they sold them books. They closed for the summer, and still they are ordering your books.

Prabhupāda: In this street I think there is one library office...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's Fifty..., it's either Fifty-fifth or Fifty-third, and it's called, it's one of main sub-branches. Yes, it's a very well known one.

Prabhupāda: Free rent?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Free rent. Rent a safe deposit box for one year and we'll give you an extra six months free." But first you have to pay for one year. Chemical Bank. Huge buildings now everywhere.

Prabhupāda: This is Rockefeller?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda, now everything looks like the Rockefeller Plaza. All of the buildings are built in that same style. Very opulent. Now every day I look out the window of our building and I think when it will come that we will have one of these buildings. It won't be long. You can see how big these are, Prabhupāda. This is Sixth Avenue.

Prabhupāda: So we are between Sixth Avenue and?

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So Cyavana Mahārāja, you are making your mind fixed up?

Cyavana: Yes, I'm feeling like my old self again.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are good boy. Whatever is done is done. Now remain with Vaiṣṇavas and fix up your mind. After all, it is a struggle between māyā and Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes due to our weakness we may fall down, but we should take again strength and stand up. Do that, and combinedly push this movement in America. It is a good field. And if you can establish this movement in America, whole world will take. That is my mission. What is the length and breadth of this house area?

Ādi-keśava: I don't know exactly.

Prabhupāda: This is the..., no? The hall is very big.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, it goes around, Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: You can walk around.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can show you.

Rāmeśvara: On each floor it is like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every floor has about twenty-five to thirty rooms.

Prabhupāda: Not only this portion.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: The city of New York is the most mismanaged city in the United States. The city government has a big debt. They borrow money from the banks and they cannot pay it back. So they..., the banks were closing the debt, the loans, calling for the loan, and they had no money, so they were firing everyone and there was great unemployment, and finally the United States government had to give them a free gift of money to bail them out. It is the worst management of any city in America. One of the big reasons is because of welfare. They give away free money to so many people in New York who don't want to work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, welfare is actually waste of money. But social construction is so bad they have to give welfare. If they take our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we can stop this welfare money, let them pay.

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage all these millions of people.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage them, so they just give them free money. Also famous for its labor unions, the most powerful in America. They force the city to pay the highest wages for the garbage men, for school teachers, the highest anywhere in the country. So that's another reason they are in debt so much. (out of car, walking)

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one of our posters for our Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are doing here(?).

Rāmeśvara: The highest paid garbage men in America.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Ādi-keśava: Fiasco.

Hari-śauri: It says "God Bless America."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the title of it, "God Bless America." But who is God? He says "I am God."

Prabhupāda: No, he has taken advantage, that "So many rascals are coming from India, God, why not from the Christian league? I become God." He's taking advantage. He's intelligent man. So many gods are coming from India, why not from Korea?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's the first Korean god.

Rāmeśvara: He's very intelligent. He's big in Korea. Multimillionaire.

Hari-śauri: He makes rifles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a big factory that makes weapons.

Rāmeśvara: He hates the Communists. He hates them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why the American government likes him. A lot of big politicians in America are backing him because he's anti-Communist and he's a big man in Korea.

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he's an industrialist.

Rāmeśvara: He became famous during the Korean war with the Chinese. He fought against the Chinese, and then he became very wealthy. As a result of that war he became very wealthy. He was selling ammunition.

Prabhupāda: America was in favor of Korea?

Rāmeśvara: They were trying to prevent the Chinese from conquering.

Prabhupāda: During Truman's?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are the kind of tables we want to put on the balcony. Remember I showed you that place, our patio on the third floor. So I want to put those kind of tables in the restaurant.

Rāmeśvara: Like a snack bar. (break) ...problems in New York is in the schools they cannot control the violence. The students are very violent. They sometimes fight their teachers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was going to school, I grew up in New York, here in Manhattan, twenty years ago probably, and sometimes there would be children's gangs, and they would come in and beat the teachers.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Killed, in the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our school one teacher was killed by such a gang.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He has also come?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His group is big here. He's very popular in America.

Rādhāvallabha: Eighteen thousand disciples. He says, "It does not matter to whom one surrenders. The relevance is in the act of surrendering. But because the human mind sees things in terms of relationships, surrender to a guru is often useful. The guru is a step toward the impersonal divine, a step toward surrender to the existence."

Hari-śauri: He makes a comment about sannyāsa as well, I think.

Rādhāvallabha: He initiates sannyāsa, they call themselves neo-sannyāsa. "At initiation a sannyāsī receives a new name, an ochre robe and a mālā, a string of beads holding a locket that frames a photograph of Bhagwan."

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is an article called "Travels Beyond the Body: what is it that travels, and what is it that's seen?" They're talking about traveling beyond your body. Here's an advertisement, "Because I have taken the mystery out of transcendental meditation, I will teach you to master transcendental meditation in a single evening." "About the author." Then it says, "Free private mantra based on your own name, selected by the great Norbell, translated by his special Sanskrit system, so that no one else in America has the same mantra twice. No other system of transcendental meditation..."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Maharishi?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?

Hari-śauri: No, this is competition.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (2): There are many swamis coming from India nowadays, and they are trying to establish, some of them like Gaṇapati temples or the Lord Śiva temples, and so forth, and trying to confuse Westerners, especially Americans, because most of them, they do come to America. Being Indian, how we can help about this confusion?

Prabhupāda: You take Bhagavad-gītā as standard. Who is the Hindu or Indian there who can refuse the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? So you present them Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then it will not happen. I don't think any Indian or any Hindu can deny the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Is there anyone?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: Then you present them. That is, I have taken, that this is the summum bonum of Indian culture, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is accepted all over the world as the greatest book of knowledge, so take this standard and preach, and people will be enlightened, without misinterpretation.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Why upset? It has no soul. Kill it.

Hari-śauri: They cannot explain it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one story that this family came, they were touring the world, and they came to Hong Kong, and they were carrying their pet dog with them also. So they went to one restaurant and they left their dog tied up on a leash outside the restaurant, because that is the custom in America. So they told the man at the door, the doorman, they pointed to the dog, just to take care of the dog. So anyway, then they went in and they had their dinner and they came out, and the dog was gone. They said (laughter) "Where's my dog?" And the man said, "Well, you pointed to him, we have prepared him for you."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. He thought that he has pointed out this dog.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just to convince people that our, this rascal civilization is advanced.

Rāmeśvara: International conspiracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means all the nations are cooperating in this project.

Rāmeśvara: Russia and America.

Prabhupāda: All the so-called scientists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do they know that they are, are they talking with each other, or are they just...

Prabhupāda: No, they are knowing. They talk. Chauri chauri mātṛka-bhāi.(?)

Rāmeśvara: It's a conspiracy.

Prabhupāda: All thieves, they are cousin brothers, "Don't expose me and I'll not expose you. Let us keep peace." Two thieves, he knows he is a thief, but if he wants to reveal a thief, then his business will be suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are the greatest cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Chauri chauri mātṛka-bhāi.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...reason they cannot keep this park neat and clean? In other cities they keep.

Ādi-keśava: They cannot pay the workers.

Prabhupāda: How is that? In America, city, New York, they cannot pay?

Hari-śauri: New York almost went bankrupt.

Devotee (1): They have mismanaged the whole thing.

Hari-śauri: They had big strikes last year or early this year. They wouldn't clear the garbage away, and the whole city was piled up with garbage everywhere.

Devotee (2): Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says in this Kali-yuga they are all lazy, misguided.

Prabhupāda: So much drinking, they must be lazy.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So much drinking excessively. Drinking means laziness.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They'll dry. That is the nature's way. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone detached from God consciousness, he has no qualification. Manorathena. Their only qualification is mental concoction. That's all. Just see, how this... In America, such a wretched man. Willfully. Willfully.

Devotee (1): They've become useless.

Prabhupāda: This is due to excessive meat-eating, intoxication, sex. This is the result.

Devotee (1): They've wasted their brains.

Hari-śauri: Also these bums that hang around the cities, they're all alcoholics.

Prabhupāda: That is the reason.

Devotee (3): That's one reason crime is so high is because of intoxication.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: In America, millions of people have guns in their houses. Very common. They are all preparing for fighting.

Hari-śauri: You said once in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the one principle that gives the most trouble is the fearing in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: (break) (in car) So whenever the Congress tries to pass a law to control the purchasing of guns, it is always defeated. They want the people to be able to have guns. They make a lot of money, also, selling guns.

Prabhupāda: The best thing is they should be educated to become gentlemen. Keep guns, but they may not improperly use them.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...came here, Bhāradvāja and myself went to Salt Lake City to visit the church of the Mormons. The Mormon religion is a branch of Christianity, and they own the whole city of Salt Lake City. It's the capital of Utaḥ, one of the United States states. So they control the whole city, and it is planned with the temple in the center of the city. Like our Māyāpur plan. And all around the streets are named after the temple. It is well planned. And in the temple square they have a visitor center, and it costs hundreds of millions of dollars, with dioramas and movies. They even have a little planetarium. It's all for recruiting people to join their religion. So we went there to study how they did it. Actually, it's all based on a crazy philosophy. They say that after Jesus Christ was crucified in Israel, he rose, and then the next stop he came to America.

Prabhupāda: Next...?

Rāmeśvara: Next he came to America. Because Jesus, they say, is the savior of the whole world, so why just Israel?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So when did he come to America?

Rāmeśvara: Immediately afterwards.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he do here?

Rāmeśvara: He gave another Bible teaching. Again he converted people to follow, to accept him as God. So this whole religion is based on his teachings when he came to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Except for them, who accepts such a thing? No one accepts that except the Mormons.

Rāmeśvara: They say that God orders every man to get married.

Hari-śauri: They are very strong on the principle of family life.

Prabhupāda: That is a good idea.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual culture, and basically speaking the human society begins from dharma, or accepting the principle of God. Dharma begins with this acceptance of the principle of God, that human beings, their activities, have to be regulated. Just like in human society there is marriage. This is according to scripture. Every scripture regulates there must be marriage. This is dharma. It regulates certain activities that should be done, certain activities that should not be done. And basically speaking this is the beginning of human civilization; otherwise, they're simply living in a civilization of gross sense gratification which is in reality no different or no better than the society of animals. So from dharma, human society begins and generally... You can see practically that dharma generally focuses... People are taking that dharma is for the basis of economic development. This is proven practically because in pioneer times in America for example, people they were simple going to churches and synagogues, and temples and all kinds of things, what have you. And economic development was going on very nicely, in fact, economic development could not have gone on unless there was this principle of religion. People were very, practically speaking... In a pioneer situation people are very barbaric, struggle for existence—you know, you're in the country, there is no road, there's no cities—everyone is very, simply interested to maintain themselves. But by churches and things of this nature, people saw the need for a civilized give-and-take way of living—economic development. Then gradually, the ideas developed further and further, but in modern days we can see that people are having economic developments and there's no need for God, they think at least. In other words, people are no longer attending churches, synagogues, things of this nature, because they are making sufficient money without the need of religion. Therefore, the basic principle is being missed that human life is not simply meant for economic development. Human life—we analyze, we can say that...

Prabhupāda: Human life is meant for making a solution of all material problems.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the modern-day cults in America, different philosophies, they say that all of the suffering is experienced within the mind. So they try by meditation to ignore the suffering.

Prabhupāda: Or... That's all right. When there is fire you meditate, why do you call fire brigade? If you are so great meditator, then you go on meditating, why you call for fire brigade? Nonsense, all rascals. (laughter) Simply rascals. Mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha. Rascals, that's all.

Devotee: Sometimes they say it's just a dream and they say if you are bothering me, and you are just my dream; I don't have to worry about it, I'll have another dream and you'll go away.

Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Mahārāja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. In India?

Rāmeśvara: Especially in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In America.

Prabhupāda: That to pass the examination by prostitution. Whatever nonsense they may write, that's all right. This is Central Park still?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Central Park West, it's called.

Prabhupāda: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The British did that so that the weavers could not work, just to introduce their Manchester's cloth. So many things they did. It is in the history.

Rāmeśvara: In America you never hear such history, in school...

Prabhupāda: They simply killed the Red Indians, that is the only.

Rāmeśvara: But in the schools they never tell you these things.

Prabhupāda: How they will tell, shameful.

Hari-śauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-śauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: ...from our public relations firm. She's assisting us in arranging for these interviews. We were just meeting with Wanda and telling her a little bit about how you began the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement here in America.

Interviewer: Well, perhaps you could continue where they left off. Could you tell me why you came to the United States in 1965. Did you feel that this was a mission that you had to fulfill?

Prabhupāda: Yes, not only United States, but everywhere people do not know what is spiritual life. They have no knowledge how to develop spiritual life, although it is... The only business of human form of life is to understand spiritual life.

Interviewer: Are you retiring now?

Prabhupāda: I'm always retired. I began this movement in my retirement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said he was always retired, and he began... After retiring, he began this movement.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by retired life?

Interviewer: I mean are you giving up your position as spiritual leader?

Rāmeśvara: She means now you are going back to India. Does that mean you are retiring from traveling all over the world preaching?

Prabhupāda: No, she said that spiritual life... "What do you mean by spiri...?"

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: She wants to know, seeing you chose the United States to begin this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement ten years ago, now do you find that in the United States there is the most active membership financially speaking. In terms of contributing to this movement, supporting the movement, is the best field America?

Prabhupāda: No, without finance we can go on.

Rāmeśvara: Without finance we can go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Oh, we can go on?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: How?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not have any financial help, but His movement is going on. It does not depend on a..., on financial. It is independent. Spiritual movement is independent of any material help. That is spiritual movement.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda personally went to the printer in Japan. He personally made the arrangement with the printer, the first printing.

Interviewer: But how did he sell his first book in America?

Hari-śauri: On the boat to the ship's captain.

Interviewer: There was a process...

Prabhupāda: I mean to say, "What is our financial arrangement?" Why these questions are being raised? This is not interview about the movement. They are very much interested about our financial help.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda's observing that they are very interested in our financial backing.

Interviewer: What do you think about some of the other gurus, if you will, since you are yourself considered a guru? Do you study anybody else?

Prabhupāda: These answers you can give.

Bali-mardana: She said what do you think about the other gurus.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I think of other gurus?

Bali-mardana: He does not study them.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Do you think there's a difference between the various peoples of the world? In other words, do you think that Indians as opposed to Europeans have more of a tendency or are more likely to adhere to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interviewer: As?

Prabhupāda: As mother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He sees every woman as his mother.

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: When they first developed the radio, they set up a system to send out radio messages into outer space. And their idea was that if there was any intelligence on other planets they would answer by sending...

Prabhupāda: So whether your radio message reach there?

Hari-śauri: We should wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, a minute, because police over there, they may object if we walk. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...only in America (laughter). All intelligence monopolized by America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like the old British policy.

Prabhupāda: Foolish policy. Just like the deaf man, he thinks everyone is deaf. You know that? This is psychology. Deaf man will think that everyone is deaf. Broadcast radio message in the Pacific Ocean, the aquatics they do not reply, that means there is no life? Rascal theory.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That way we'll get the cooler weather and we'll get the best preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...so dismantled and constructed this building. When I was ten years before, they were dismantled. Very nice building. Just to change the fashion, they spend so much. (break) ...walking generally this. (break) ...producing company?

Devotee: Yes, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. MGM.

Prabhupāda: And this is Rockefeller Center?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: Now they have designed these buildings so that many of them have fountains and big courtyards and you can walk from one street to the other by going through the center of the building.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why do you bring Eastern religion Western religion? It is a science. Two plus two is equally important both in the East and the West.

Interviewer: Well, it originated in the East and it's not very, it hasn't been customary in the West.

Prabhupāda: That originated... Just like the sun rises in India first. That does not mean the sun in America and the sun in India is different. The sun is the same sun. It may appear first in the Eastern side but that sun does not belong either to the East or the West. Sun is sun.

Interviewer: Well do you think that the Eastern sun, meaning Hare Kṛṣṇa, is appropriate in a culture that has a different religion traditionally?

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is ignorance. Why do you say...?

Interviewer: The Jewish, Biblical Christian tradition is traditional in the West, the Hindu tradition...

Prabhupāda: I never said that Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What salary he is getting?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Ah, he's getting about twelve, thirteen hundred dollars now.

Prabhupāda: Salary? Yes. He was getting in America six hundred. (laughs) Getting double.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And he will get a lot more and more. He will get a lot more. And he is..., we have our regular programs, he brings people from business, we all bring people, and the prasādam and chanting and lecture. It's very nice.

Prabhupāda: And so Nandarāṇī is also working?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She is happy. She, for a while she taught at a karmī school, from that school...

Prabhupāda: She has got experience.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: My first daughter's age is fifty-five. She was born in 1923. You were also born? (pause)

Interviewer: Prabhu, we want to ask you some questions. It's a monthly magazine we have, Trans-India. It circulates northern Indian immigrants in North America and North American, Canadian friends of ours. You know ever since Swami Vivekananda came here in 1896...

Prabhupāda: Ninety-three.

Interviewer: His first one was 1896, I think, his first visit.

Prabhupāda: No, 1893.

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization. That is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda:

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

So Indian life means para-upakāra. They are in the darkness, others, in the darkness. They have no such culture, spiritual culture. India has got that culture, this Bhagavad-gītā. So one should make his life a practically Bhagavad-gītā life. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. And preach it to the world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. And this order was not only... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu happened to be a Bengali... He appeared in Nadia district, a district in Bengal. But He does not say the Bengalis; He said the bhāratīs. Bharata-varṣa janma haila yāra. So it is India's mission to become exactly on the line of Bhagavad-gītā. That is also spoken by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that perfection of life means to understand Bhagavad-gītā. He said āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You just become a guru and deliver this country." "This country" means wherever you are living—it doesn't matter whether in India or America or anywhere else—you just deliver them. So to become guru means to save a person from the conditional life of matter. So long you become a materialistic person, that means you are under condition of material nature. So you have to get your freedom from the laws of material nature. That is your perfect life. But people in the Western countries, they do not know much of this freedom. India knew it, or some of Indians, they know it. But at the present moment they, being conquered or influenced by the Western culture, they are also losing their identity. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja ordered me to do something about the spiritual life in the Western countries. On account of this I came here.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: I am not that... I have not read all the, I have read Gandhiji's, I have read Radhakrishna's, I have.

Prabhupāda: Gandhiji has preached or Dr. Radhakrishna has written, but who has preached that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is to be worshiped? Just like we are preaching. Here in America, you have seen our temple? How they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. So Bhagavad-gītā, main purpose is that. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who has preached this? So, although they came, so many swamis, yogis, and politicians, they came, but they talked, what can I say? All irrelevant. Nobody spoke that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You worship Him." Nobody has said. This is the first time, I am saying. Do you agree or not?

Interviewer: Yes. Do you think that this is because of the Western influence under which they have gone and you are...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, they wanted to compromise with the Westerners. They did not come to teach, but they wanted to be victimized by the Western people. They had no strength to save themselves. They have no strength. They have no determination. Hodgepodge, that's all. Therefore it was not successful. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Even nowadays. Now Vivekananda is famous in India that "He preached in America, all Americans have become Vedantists," something like that. Now, practically, you have gone in Vṛndāvana?

Interviewer: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Very learned scholar in Sanskrit. Titles in Sanskrit.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...Ratha-yātrā, "No Parking. Sunday Parade."

Prabhupāda: You convince the authorities of America that my logic, andha-paṅgor nyāya. Who will explain this? Andha-paṅgor nyāya, lame and blind logic.

Hari-śauri: Ah, lame and blind.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes, I told a reporter that just a few days ago.

Prabhupāda: America is blind by money. Dhana-madāndha, when one gets too much money he becomes blind. Dhana-durmadāndha. Tasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadāndha. To get too much riches means he becomes fool and blind. He doesn't care. So this blindness of America... And we Indians, we have no money, but we have got culture. Combine together, then things will be very nicely done for the good of the whole world. Simply money is not the end; there must be culture. Take that culture, Vedic culture, and use it by American money, then the whole world will be paradise, Vaikuṇṭha. In India one paper, Sunday, they have published a nice article about us: "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Catches On."

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: In South America there was a great criticism?

Hari-śauri: South Africa.

Prabhupāda: South Africa.

Indian man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Of Satya Sai.

Hari-śauri: One man, he challenged that he could prove that Sai Baba is a fake. So he's written so many letters to Sai Baba to challenge him, but he's never received a reply. So that paper gave this article criticizing Sai Baba like that and other gurus, and then in the same paper there was a very nice article concerning our Jagannātha Cart Festival. So practically they were appreciating that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bona fide and these other people are nonsense.

Indian man: Right. In fact, several people, even in our community in Poughkeepsie, received letters from Satya Sai Baba's followers that "Here is a letter. Make ten copies and send the ten copies to ten different people. If you don't, Satya Sai Baba's thunderbolt will come and strike your family, and they'll be destroyed." Now no guru ever puts a thunderbolt on his devotee, and I said, "If that is a guru, I'll stay ten thousand miles away from him, because my guru is very kind and he'll bless me." I said, "No guru should ever put a thunderbolt on his devotee."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You can turn towards this.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very cold.

Hari-śauri: That kills them.

Bali-mardana: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There were devotees from Miami, Gainesville, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Boston, Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, Los Angeles, Vancouver, South America—all over South America, I think. A gigantic turnout of devotees. Very international group.

Bali-mardana: This could be like Lord Caitanya used to invite all His devotees to come and see Him at Ratha-yātrā...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: Similarly, if you come here, we can invite...

Prabhupāda: I'll come.

Bali-mardana: ...from all the temples.

Prabhupāda: I'll come.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.

Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.

Hari-śauri: Well, it's Sunday evening. It's a bit difficult. He has to drive around in a car till he finds somewhere.

Bali-mardana: 7-UP? You want 7-UP? I can get it.

Hari-śauri: I sent Śravaṇānanda out to get it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the Bloopie's they can get it. Rādhāvallabha got it.

Bali-mardana: Not a can, though, just in a cup.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do they get it into the cup? Buy the whole bottle.

Prabhupāda: Bottle or... Bottle or can.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that nice. "Like many other immigrant groups who preserved their forms of worship once they came to America, the Indians who watched or participated in the parade were pleased to see that they could keep the faith even in New York City." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These rascals, let them come, they become baḍa sāheb.

Bali-mardana: Become what?

Prabhupāda: Baḍa sāheb.

Hari-śauri: Baḍa sāheb, big Westerner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "While Hare Kṛṣṇa propounds doctrines of world renunciation common to other varieties of the Hindu faith, the sect, officially known as the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, was founded in 1966 by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, whose fame as a guru came only after he arrived in the United States in the same year. For most of the Indians watching the parade, however, Hare Kṛṣṇa was close enough to their brand of Hinduism to make them feel at home."

Gurudāsa: That's good. It means that we're not a light cult. It means we have a great tradition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's actually good.

Gurudāsa: They're recognizing that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'It's surprising that you find this right in New York City. It's our way of life,' said Nagan Patel, a civil engineer from Jersey City, who immigrated from Bombay. 'We love New York City and America. It's the most beautiful place in the world. No other country will give such freedom for our own ceremony.' "

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: This city, the people of this city.

Prabhupāda: America.

Rāmeśvara: New York.

Prabhupāda: New York.

Rāmeśvara: In other places they consider us to be very foreign, alien. But here there are so many foreigners, so it fits right in.

Prabhupāda: This is the Tenth Street? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Amsterdam Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ninth Avenue turns into Amsterdam Avenue.

Rāmeśvara: Next year at the Ratha-yātrā they are planning to have a press box, so that the newspapermen and television cameras can come and film the activities on stage also. They can film your lecture, they can film the play.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're also thinking to have a press box along the parade route, so that they can stay in an elevated position and take photos. We collected a total of about seven thousand dollars, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: And what you spent?

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the park. One woman who lives next to the park said "In all my years of living here I've never seen such a wonderful festival held." And one..., the official of the park, who's in charge of the park, was on CBS television, and he said that "You see? Spiritual life is still present in Washington Square Park." He made that comment. He said "We are very proud to be able to say that in our... This park was founded hundreds of years ago, when America was religious." And he said "Spiritual life is still present in Washington Square Park."

Prabhupāda: So why not ask the mayor to construct a temple there? (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think they'd...

Prabhupāda: People will come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe, but, ah, I don't think they will agree to that. They're not that spiritual.

Rāmeśvara: No, in America you have to raise your own money for temples. You cannot get the city to build it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you can't get their land either, not for a building like that. You can put a hospital maybe. Thing is, park space is so short in that area of the city that they..., I don't think they'd give it up for a building. Prabhupāda told us yesterday that we should rent a small building downtown in that area and call it Guṇḍicā, so that Lord Jagannātha will stay down there.

Prabhupāda: For one week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For one week. And we'll keep a restaurant there.

Prabhupāda: And then they'll again come in procession.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Ghanaśyāma: We were talking about the pictures, the paintings in the books. We were mentioning how professors liked the paintings and how sometimes they actually buy the books because of the nice paintings. Sometimes when we go back to see a professor or librarian a year later, we'll notice that they'll have a catalogue up on the bulletin board. Sometimes they'll take the cover of the jacket of the book and they'll put it on display. And now we're getting recognized when we go to some of the colleges. They say, "Oh, you're the man with the nice colorful books. We've seen your catalogue, we got one in the mail, we've seen your books, and they're very attractive books." And our men are getting known now that because we've been to most of the schools in America once, and they say "You're the men who don't leave until your books are in the library." Even if the school is closed, our men, now, they'll go to the professor's home and they'll get him out of bed to come to see the librarian or to write a notice or to call the librarian. So even if the school is closed, the books are still being placed, and when the students come the books are in the library. (break) (in car)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Is that what you want?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gurudāsa Mahārāja can speak very nice.

Satsvarūpa: The speaking starts in the fall, especially. That's when we could work together.

Prabhupāda: No, in our temple.(?)

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: We have got many farms all over the world. They are living very happy. Have you got some pictures?

Jayatīrtha: Of the cows?

Prabhupāda: No, of our farms, farmland. Leading very simple life, in your country, in, I mean to say, America, Europe. Very simple life. Food grains and milk. You can prepare hundreds of nice preparations, full of vitamins, nutritious. And they do not know how to live civilized life.

Jayatīrtha: Here are some nice pictures here. Some of our cows, you see this small one. And here's one of our farms in West Virginia in America. There's over a hundred and fifty cows in this farm.

Mike Robinson: Do you find the English weather cold?

Prabhupāda: Because I am old man, I'm not a young blood like you.

Mike Robinson: And you think it's more because of your age, I mean you've got used to a colder climate than India, have you?

Prabhupāda: We are accustomed to tropical climate. This.... Heat does not disturb us, but cold disturbs us. We can tolerate extreme heat, 120 degrees, but we cannot tolerate fifty degree cold.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

abhupāda: "That also distribute for me. More share for me." (laughs) Now there is drought; there is no rain. What the capitalists or communists can do in this connection? If they are able to present any program how to counteract? Then where is your progress? When there is some calamity, you both of you simply (indistinct). That's all. You cannot do anything. Then where is your progress?

Hari-śauri: The reason why the Russians were buying wheat from America...

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Hari-śauri: ...was because they had no rain. All their crops failed.

Jayatīrtha: Not only that, people aren't inclined to work very hard. The farmers are not very enthusiastic to work very hard, because they work very hard, but they have to give all the fruit away. So because they are karmīs, they want the fruit. The state is taking the fruit; therefore they don't want to work.

Prabhupāda: Why they shall work?

Jayatīrtha: They have no incentive.

Prabhupāda: "I'll work and you'll enjoy." Why shall they work? That is natural tendency. This can be possible only for Kṛṣṇa. "I'll work; Kṛṣṇa will enjoy." That's all. That is only possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: While waiting for the cows to die.

Prabhupāda: Yes, cats and dogs they are eating. Yes. Hong Kong. they are eating. Who said that one gentleman came to Hong Kong hotel? Eh?

Hari-śauri: One of the devotees in America. Some man came with his pet dog. So in America they tie up the dogs outside the restaurant, so he did that and he went in. And then he pointed, he showed the doorman his dog, meaning that he was liable to look after him. So after he'd eaten his meal he went out and his dog was gone. So after some inquiry they found out that when he showed the doorman the dog, he misunderstood and thought that he wanted to eat it, that he was bringing his lunch with him, so he took the dog and killed it and served him. He ate his dog.

Jayatīrtha: A local policeman said that in England there are more laws protecting the dogs than there are protecting the children. If you beat your children, then no problem. If you beat your dog, immediately they'll come arrest you.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Bhagavān: I've seen in India, they are bringing foreign dogs.

Jayatīrtha: Even that one gosvāmī in Vṛndāvana, he has got French dogs.

Prabhupāda: That poodles. He's rascal. And such a fool, "Jagat-guru." So you go.

Jayatīrtha: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Now I have given the ideas, the philosophy, in the books. So it is your business to develop all over the world. You are very intelligent, Europeans and Americans. Give it a shape, for the world prosperity. Give it a practical.... It is practical. There is no difficulty. So much land. Very good fertile land in Africa, Australia, in America. All of them can be utilized for the happiness of the whole world. The portal(?) has come or not?

Yogeśvara: I haven't seen any new devotees come from London, so probably not.

Harikeśa: No, it was air-freighted, it's sitting in the Paris airport.

Yogeśvara: It is? How do you know?

Harikeśa: Portal's in Paris airport, no?

Hari-śauri: Well, it was there at ten o'clock this morning. Did they pick it up?

Prabhupāda: That don't mind labor. You try to grow portal here. You have got greenhouse.

Devotee: Some bitter melons. Some karelā melons.

Prabhupāda: Everything. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 7.10). The pitā is there. Properly put it into the womb of mother earth. That is the process. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Nowadays people are not interested in cultural societies. They are simply for belly. How to earn money, that's all. Śūdra mentality. The brāhmaṇa mentality is gone. In America also. People are not joining cultural classes of philosophy. Hayagrīva said that he has no job because nobody's taking English as literary study. Nobody's interested. They are taking to technology.

Bhūgarbha: Science.

Prabhupāda: Science means how to make the motorcar wheel, that's all. This is their science.

Bhūgarbha: In America, the professors complain to us. When we try to sell them personal books, they should take books themselves, they say that the salary of a college professor in America is the same as the salary of a waiter in some hotel. That is the respect they are given.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are called churchmouse. Churchmouse. A mouse in the church, what he'll eat? He's in a householder's place, a mouse is there, he can eat something. But church, nobody's eating there. Simply dust, that's all. (laughter) Churchmouse. Any new mail?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: What is the basic? What you will know by that? Biology is going on, whether you study or not study. You are eating, it is transforming into blood, everyone knows. And how he's transforming into blood? What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying they should learn geography and history, just for general knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is because you have to go from America to India. You must know. (laughter) You have to calculate two plus two equal to four, a little mathematics. But this biology and this "logy," they are useless. There is no necessity. What you'll gain by understanding biology? Even one who knows biology, the medical man, he gives a tablet, "Perhaps it may help you." "Perhaps." He's not sure. So what is the use? First of all, he'll take one ounce of blood from you, and they send, this station, that station, now making a chart, then he'll give you a tablet, "Perhaps it may help." This is going on. Even the biggest pathologist, medical man, cannot guarantee that whatever medicine... (break)

Yogeśvara: ...some group doctors? Some portion of the devotees medical knowledge?

Prabhupāda: There is no harm, but when medical men are available by paying something, why should you waste your time? There are so many things we purchase, you pay for them. Not that we have to learn everything. So many things we have to do. Does it mean that you have to learn everything?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That may be, you may be a teacher, but you'll remain only a worker. That is another thing. Just like Dronācārya, he taught, he remained a teacher. So we can become a teacher of a particular subject matter, but that does not mean you should be worker. Still, there are many professors, they are teacher, they are not worker. But if the teachers are available, why you should become a teacher? Let them teach. We have to save our time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, this, in the modern world they have invented so many varieties of occupations unnecessarily, to develop economic condition. Is it not? But our philosophy is that you cannot develop your economic condition than you are destined to suffer or enjoy. So one should not waste his time for so-called development of economic condition. He should utilize his time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was not possible in any other form of life. When we had cat's and dog's life, tree's life, we could not do that, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we have got human form of life, we should fully utilize it for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should we waste our time for economic development? Economic development is not possible. Then every work, every city, they are trying to develop this economic condition, but they're struggling. Why they word it of "struggle for existence" is there? It is not possible. Why there are varieties of social position? Everyone could come on the same standard. That is not possible. Anywhere you go, the three classes of men, upper class, middle class and lower class, is there. Is there any country where there is not these three classes, only the upper class? Is there any country? Then what is the use? Anywhere you'll go, you'll find this upper class, middle class and lower class. In the beginning, I thought that America, everyone is richer class. So when I came I saw the three classes are already there. The lower class, although the country has good facilities not to become lower class, still, voluntarily they are hippies, lower class. They are lying on the street. Although he has got very good opportunity to become first class, but he is lying on the street. Why? What is answer? British Empire, London, one is lying on the bench. New York, lying on the bench. There is no sufficient clothing? Why? Actually, he can live very comfortably, but why he's living in that condition? What is answer?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: It's his nature.

Prabhupāda: No, he has to live in that way. That is his destiny. You cannot change it by artificial ways. Even if he has got all the facilities, he will have to live like that. That is nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is... So therefore there is no use of so-called improvement. And you cannot do it. This is a fact. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Find out this verse. Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary. Your standard of happiness and distress must be there because you are destined by the laws of nature. You have to suffer although you are born in America. In New York you can get very comfortable life there; still, you have lie down on the bench, lie down. Although you are born of a rich man's family, you have to become hippies, lie down here. Who can check this? What is that law. Do they know it? But there is a law. There will be a first class, second class, third class, fourth class. You cannot check it. Huh? New York City? So cared for? Nasty road, streets. And always, every moment-dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung, gu gu gu gu gu gu gu-fire. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Fire is blazing. Despite all arrangement, fire is blazing. How can you stop it? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibaniśi hiya jvale. The blazing fire of poison is always going on. Taribāre nā kāinu upāya. And one has to make ways how to get out of this fire. That is intelligence. Read that.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: One time you said that they criticized you when you were going to America because you did not know about the knife and the fork?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bon Mahārāja. And the book English Etiquette. Very big book. How to sit, how to laugh, how to smile, how to pass water, how to this... (laughter) And they would learn it and waste time. (pause) So, if you grow more, and offer fruits to the Deity in the evening, and this will be very nice. You can distribute that.

Bhagavān: Would you like to go for a walk soon? I'll get everything ready. The palanquin was nice?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is nice. In the morning also you give me fresh fruit and that milk and medicine, that's all. And when I'm (indistinct), someday we can take puri and... (end)

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Chick peas very nutritious. If you simply boil soft, oh, it is very nutritious. A little, so much, is as good as full meal. Next time, if possible, I shall come in June-June, July, August.

Bhagavān: Yes, these are nice months, best months.

Prabhupāda: It is not difficult. To come to Paris it takes eight or nine hours from Bombay.

Hari-śauri: But you might already be in America at that time. (laughs) You're always in America at that time.

Prabhupāda: Now this place is very nice. The outside, so pleasing, the outdoors.

Bhagavān: I think you are feeling a little better?

Prabhupāda: Yes, little. This facility is nowhere in America, outdoors.

Hari-śauri: Well, we have one or two places that are just developing, like Miami.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- August 4, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's their only qualification.

Prabhupāda: If I cheat somebody and get some money, you are very expert.

Hari-śauri: Top-class businessman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: First-class scientist. And the best politician. Just like in America, once they'd found Nixon was cheating, now they're investigating one man after another, and every one, they're finding all the same.

Prabhupāda: America, cheating is a policy. How a real estate man, lawyer, they're simply planning how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: The lawyers are the worst because they know the law. So they know how to cheat in such a way that they can stay within the law. They said Ambarīṣa's lawyer cheated us out of so many things when we got that Detroit property. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: The idea is, suppose I am in France. I do not know French language, but there is fire in my room, and I have to call my neighbors. So somehow or other I call and take their help. (laughter)

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique wishes to know whether we cannot do one very small pocketbook edition that will sell very inexpensively. Something like I think in India they have done.

Hari-śauri: Like the abridged version in America they did?

Yogeśvara: No, something like this, very small.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. It is nice proposal.

Hari-śauri: Like that Chinese one? First six chapters.

Prabhupāda: Where is that Chinese?

Bhūgarbha: He feels that if we bring out a very small, compact edition, it will sell very nicely.

Prabhupāda: First of all, we printed seven hundred copies. And now we are going to print five thousand.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: These are all local fruits? Or imported?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Most of them local. Now we have a lot of local fruits.

Prabhupāda: You grow banana?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, the banana is imported.

Parivrājakācārya: From South America, they bring bananas.

Prabhupāda: Grapes? Grapes you have got.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Grapes, apple. Where is your eldest child?

Nandarāṇī: This is Candramukhī.

Prabhupāda: Oh. I saw you in Los Angeles?

Nandarāṇī: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have got two or three girls?

Nandarāṇī: Just two.

Prabhupāda: Two. Is there arrangement for preparing khicuḍi with green peas?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: They do not want to upset the illusion that they are God, that they are the only ones in the universe. So if they find out there is life on another planet, they will not like it. If there is higher life somewhere else, they will not like that. They are always in competition.

Prabhupāda: And all the higher lifes are in Europe and America. Especially in America, eh? That is their mania. They do not like that there may be higher lifes, you said. They like it that there may not be any higher life. That is their preconception.

Jñānagamya: Yes, this is the highest here, there cannot be any higher. They will not accept.

Prabhupāda: Just see how much biased they are.

Jñānagamya: They cannot accept another philosophy, they will not accept philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā because it is from another country. They do not like that.

Prabhupāda: Ah, nobody can see their attitude.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: So it is very good. On the abridged Bhagavad-gītā we have Americans, Emerson and Thoreau saying this is a wonderful book. That is very good, that is very impressive to Americans. They will accept if some great Americans have said.

Prabhupāda: That was my policy from the very beginning, that if the Americans accept, then my mission will be successful. And that is being done gradually, and I am insisting that, preach in America vigorously. If America accepts, then whole world will accept. That's a fact. Anywhere, although America may be fallen, the ideal is American, everywhere. Because they have got money. Kali-yuga means money. If you have got money, then you have got culture, you have got education, you have got everything. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, they were attached, family, aristocracy, culture, education. Nowadays there is no such thing. Get money and you get everything. It is not? Somehow or other, if you have got control over money then you have got everything. Bring that black Bhāgavatam. What is that sound coming? There is goat?

Parivrājakācārya: I think a lamb, sheep.

Prabhupāda: Lamb.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Let me ask. We may have little bit.

Prabhupāda: No, here they prepare puffed rice?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, from India or from America. We don't...

Prabhupāda: You get imported.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Would you like me to ask?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You bring.

Hari-śauri: We brought some flat rice, kṣira.

Prabhupāda: No, don't, I shall not take it.

Jñānagamya: Did he see that in the store now? I'm asking if he saw it in the store.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, it is not here, we got it.

Prabhupāda: What is that? No. Don't take trouble. I'll not take. Atreya Ṛṣi: No trouble.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They make very nice puffed rice in Melbourne.

Atreya Ṛṣi: How do they make it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Not difficult. The paddy, they are boiled. And then again baked in the sunshine. Again boil, then again baked in the sunshine. Then the skin is taken out by that dekhi, what is called? That rice...

Pradyumna: Thresher?

Prabhupāda: Dekhi, husking, the skin is taken away. Then mixed with salt and make it heated. Then when it is prepared, then they heat sand, and in that heated sand you put the rice and immediately puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff-puff. Like that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In America they probably have a short-cut process.

Prabhupāda: Maybe, what method?

Pradyumna: We used to have for breakfast. (end)

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: If we distribute your books and prasāda, then that is as good as them coming to meet you personally.

Prabhupāda: No, personally also, you can do. If they come, you instruct them. But the prasādam and book distribution, very important line. If he's intelligent, by reading books will help him. In Europe and America, you have got intelligence. By reading books, they are coming to the sense. And in this part of the world they are not so intelligent.

Nandarāṇī: We find only a very small percentage of the Iranians that can speak English well enough to understand even Īśopaniṣad, which is very simple English, and I give Bhagavad-gītās, I distribute Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.

Nandarāṇī: Any book. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.

Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...about Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: This Indira Gandhi?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, Mahatma Gandhi. When I was in America three months ago, this was in a magazine, a new study. And it was very interesting because it showed that how subconsciously this man was very much, very much affected by sex, influenced. After I read it, I understood your comments a lot better, because it was a very frank study of details of his life and...

Prabhupāda: You sit down, I'll show you.

Nava-yauvana: I should sit in front here.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, you stand and do it. Do it but do it strongly. Or you can do it like this, just comfortable. Comfortable. He was used to getting massage from woman.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is known. He used to have women devotees who...

Prabhupāda: No, it was known to everyone. And that was remarked that his granddaughter, I mean granddaughter-in-law, he was always accompanied, resting his head on their shoulder, he was walking. That was remarked by...

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: And the purpose of śāstra is to direct this minute independence so that it is not misused?

Prabhupāda: Just like in your state, you are independent citizen, but you must be guided by the laws. If you violate the laws, immediately you will be prisoner. The śāstra is like that, law. You have little independence, you can utilize it fully, under the laws. As soon as you violate, you are immediately put into suffering. Because you are a citizen of an independent country, America, doesn't mean that you can do whatever you like. But you do according to the laws of the country.

Dayānanda: You were talking the other morning on the walk about dharma and dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2).

Prabhupāda: Dharma means what God says, that is dharma. But you have created your own dharma. You give up that.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He's bringing it.

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect favorable situation. It is not possible. When I came in America, I never expected any favorable situation. I wrote that poetry in disappointment, that "Who will accept this?" That is the position. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, gradually it will become a favorable situation, but don't expect any favorable situation. You have to handle unfavorable situation and make favorable situation to preach. That is preaching. Any business. (to devotee fanning:) Just on the head. Just see, there is flies. So Nityānanda Prabhu, He went to preach to Jagāi-Mādhāi. There was no favorable situation. They were drunkards. They caused injury on the body of Nityānanda Prabhu. So this is preaching with only unfavorable situation. You cannot expect favorable situation. And still you have to preach. That is preaching. They will speak like madmen, so many things. They are mad, after all. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). They have no sense. All materialistic persons are madmen. Still, by the order of superior, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we have to do this preaching work. Actually, the American boys are fighting against so many unfavorable situations. They are sometimes beaten in the airport, you know that? Still they are preaching; that is preaching, that is preaching. "The unfavorable situation, so let me give it up," that is not preaching. Yes, we must know that there is unfavorable situation, still I have to. That depends on your brain, how to tackle. You cannot expect favorable situation.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: In a film can we talk about these things that we...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't talk of film. You are very much in favor of film. You better stop that idea.

Jñānagamya: It is very potent, though, for preaching. No?

Prabhupāda: Some of them may be preaching. In North America.(?) What favorable film will do? You can show our activities, that film may be for our advertisement. Otherwise, in which way, by showing film, film, and film. There are so many films. They see, they see.

Jñānagamya: Devotees are interested.

Prabhupāda: Devotees are devotees. If you want to preach to the public, what impression they'll have? Some of our documentary film, just like we are feeding the poor, or we are working, making such things, that may be favorable. Say we're doing something in America, the Indians may appreciate, or we are doing something in India. That's all right. There is little effect of course, but not very much.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is... How they can change?

Jñānagamya: Great books have done this. Uncle Tom's Cabin started a whole war against slavery in the United states. Books and films are very potent. They can make public opinion.

Prabhupāda: Books are different thing, we are publishing.

Jñānagamya: In America the Negro situation was very bad, and they made many films showing heroic Negroes and now the situation is much better. The people are not so much agitated by seeing Negroes. They think "Oh, now a Negro has some good qualities." Because of these films they have come to appreciate. So like that, if a devotee is a hero they will also appreciate.

Prabhupāda: Do they? I don't appreciate. I don't think the Negro question is solved.

Jñānagamya: No, it's not, but it is making steps to that end.

Prabhupāda: The whites, they do not like the Negroes still. Wherever there are Negroes, in that quarter the whites do not go in. So is it not? They do not go. Although they have been given equal right, but at heart the whites, they do not like it. Is there any improvement? I don't think. Officially, "Yes, yes, you are good, I am good."

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, by their advertisement, the effect is the church is being closed. Eh? Is it not?

Jñānagamya: But there is also a movement in America, in Christianity, but they do not want to go to church. They want to be Christians, but not go to church.

Prabhupāda: That means it has no effect. Now talk about something substantial. Yesterday we were talking about the proprietorship of God. So if people are interested to talk like gentlemen, how they can refute the proprietorship of God of everything? Talk on this point.

Jñānagamya: They say God has given us everything for our pleasure, that God is not worried about whether He owns it or not, He simply wants to give to us.

Prabhupāda: That is your idea, but if I am proprietor of something, I must keep my right. It is not that... Suppose I am proprietor of this house, and there is a nice garden. I allow my friends and relatives or family to use it. But when they misuse it, shall I remain silent? If I am proprietor, when things are being misused, shall I remain silent? When you misuse it and if I chastise you, how you can say that "You have given to us, whatever we like we can do. Why you are protesting?" Can they say like that? You say that God has given us, so we can do, there is no need of God. That is your argument, is it not? What that argument?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: They say it is to protect the people who are here.

Prabhupāda: Then why you came here? The Americans, why they went to America and killed the Indians? And now they have become proprietor, "Don't come here."

Jñānagamya: They allow some and then they differentiate, they try to see who is going to be...

Prabhupāda: That means you are violate the laws of God. Every place is God's place, so you're all God's sons. You can go anywhere. Unless I do something harm, you cannot check me. In the airport, everyone is checked. That means everyone is dishonest. Nowadays everyone is checked. So in the airport, the passengers, at least it is to be supposed they are paying so much fare, they are all respectable gentlemen. But nobody is to be trusted. They are all dishonest. This is your position. Even though you are outwardly respectable gentlemen, the airport authorities accept you as dishonest, to be checked. This is the effect of your education, everyone is dishonest. (lamb crying in background) Why the lamb is crying? Eh? The lamb?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Guest: (general discussion about land purchasing) But now, you know, people are taking advantage. The one who is selling now, he is going to America. He says, "Let me pack this two lakhs of dollars and go and buy in America." Why should (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: So American immigration?

Guest: Yes, he must have taken immigration. Then he is going to America. His son or daughter must be there. All Iranians have daughters and sons in America or Europe. So...

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Guest: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here, and the government needed people to get educated. So they gave a lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Guest: Yes. So everybody who could have some money or he could afford it, he sends his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Very huge (indistinct). But they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are four places where everybody... In London you can walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. (Bengali) (long pause)

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've gone round the world fifteen times within ten years. Naturally more than once in a year. And we have got branches all over the world.

Guest: I think the temples are increasing, particularly in Germany, England, and I suppose in America as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America we have got forty branches. Our philosophy is simple. We educate people to understand that there is God. This is a godless civilization. So we say that there is God. Try to understand, and love Him, that's all. This is our philosophy. Then you'll be happy. And so long you do not love God, you simply love dog, you'll never be happy. That is our philosophy. You have diverted your loving spirit to the dog. You change it. Instead of loving dog, you love God. Then dog will be loved and everyone will be loved. If you simply love dog, then your love will be simply in dog. But if you love God, then you'll love God and dog also. Just like you are eating. So the eatable is going to the stomach. If you distribute this eatable to the eyes, to the ears, to the nose—there are nine holes—it will be uselessly spoiled. And if you give this foodstuff to the stomach, the energy will be immediately distributed to the ears, to the eyes, to the nose, to the... Similarly, if you have got a propensity to love, you love God, your love will be distributed everywhere. And if you fix your love to the dog, then it is uselessly spoiled. That is going on. They have manufactured love for country, for this, that, so many things. But without love of God. Therefore the disturbance is going on. However big nationalist you may be, you cannot make happy anyone. That is not possible. Take for example our Mahatma Gandhi. He's recognized nationally, but he was killed by his countrymen. That's a fact. That means he could not make happy anyone. So we have got some loving propensity. If we love... That is our natural position. If we love God, then our love for others will automatically be done. And on account of loving God, our life will be perfect. What do you think of this philosophy? What do you think of this philosophy?

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He wanted to go to Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Detroit, everyone is trying to take some advantage.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Everybody thinks America is everything. A heavenly planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for India it is heavenly planet, certainly.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I'm sure there is always a lot of people who gather around American devotees.

Prabhupāda: To exploit.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They want money, they want this, they want benefit, some sort of, this I can see.

Prabhupāda: What is the price of this bread?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Five rials, it's about half a rupee.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Sannimitan bharam tyaga vinasena isati(?). Money will be spent, and if it is spent for good cause, that is the proper utilization.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All the community people here in this room have donated as much as they can. They have helped us.

Prabhupāda: In America we have got the facility for selling books. Contribution there is, but our main source of income by selling books. We are selling books to the extent of sixty...?

Harikeśa: Sixty thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Sixty thousand dollars daily. Sixty thousand dollars daily. America and Europe. Europe we have got other language publication. Have you got the German?

Jñānagamya: We had French books, Bhagavad-gītā, Prabhupāda, it was sold. We had one German Bhagavad-gītā too.

Prabhupāda: We have published Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Bring it. It is translated by one Chinese student. Give it to Mr....

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why piece? Take big land. Make something gorgeous. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Although He likes to live in the village, but He is Dvārakādhīśa also.

Mr. Patel: It should be big land for the...

Mr. Sahani: Here the land prices are five times what they are in America.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Eh? There?

Mr. Sahani: The price of land here in Tehran is five times what it is in New York.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter)

Mrs. Sahani: Highest, most highest in the world, next to probably Tokyo.

Mr. Sahani: The house which you have seen today is worth two lakhs of dollars. In two lakhs of dollars you can have palace in America.

Prabhupāda: No, not that...

Mr. Sahani: But two lakhs here, you have to have all two lakhs completely in your hand before you can step into this house. Over there with two lakhs you step into the house, a palace of one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayānanda, you know?

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I don't think that will happen.

Mr. Patel: No, it won't happen. Price will never become down.

Mr. Sahani: Now, you know, people are taking the advantage. One who is selling now, he's going to America. He said "Let me collect this two lakhs of dollars, go and buy in America."

Prabhupāda: They, in America, they immigration?

Mr. Sahani: He must have taken immigration. His family is going to America. His son and daughter must be there. All Iranians have sons or daughters in America or Europe. So...

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Mr. Sahani: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here. And the government needed people to get educated. So they gave lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Mr. Sahani: Yes. So everybody who could have some money if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne, even Switzerland, but they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody... In London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsāhān dhairyāt...

Nava-yauvana: So we are here, if we work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then there we will get a temple. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?

Prabhupāda: Seven dollars.

Nava-yauvana: Seven dollars.

Dayānanda: I think you got that from selling Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is sufficient. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there seven dollars. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Well, my problem is that I have to have somewhere to live and I have to get something to eat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that Kṛṣṇa's solves. Yes, Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) produce food grains. You have to work because it is material world. You cannot sit idly. Even if you are a very strong tiger, you don't expect that animals will come and enter your mouth. You have to work for it. This is the world. Na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. Suppose a lion... He's the king of the forest. And if he says, "It is my order, I'll sleep here and all the animals may come in my mouth." The animals will urine on his face. "Yes, we shall pass urine on your face. We are not going to accept your order." You have to work. Practical, everyone has to work. This is the third nature. Avidyā karma-saṅga. Because here everyone is under ignorance, the punishment is he has to work for his living condition. Work is not very pleasing. It is very troublesome. But he has to. Avidyā karma-saṅga. You have to work. Therefore we see practically that countries who are working very diligently, they are materially prosperous. Europe, America, they work very diligently, hard, and they have got material prosperity. And the Eastern countries, they are not working, intelligent. From material point of view. From spiritual point of view that is another thing.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Monthly, no year.

Harikeśa: Those traveler's checks there?

Prabhupāda: Traveler's check I'll keep now. It may be required.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And monthly to India or to America?

Prabhupāda: India or America.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Because America is cheaper, because if I send it to India, if small amounts go...

Prabhupāda: So you send to America.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To America is all right? I send it every month to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles, yes. For deposit in account number I will give you.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We will go and we will take care of all this this afternoon.

Prabhupāda: All right, keep it now, we are going. We shall come back and then later on. After coming back we shall give him. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yat dadāsi tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam. (break)

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Godless civilization, sinful activities. The reaction will increase, no rainfall, scarcity of foodgrains, and government taxes. These are written in Bhāgavata. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa... Government will exact tax more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a scientific study done by the CIA in America, this study done by the CIA on world weather conditions. And they concluded that the world weather conditions only get worse and worse. There's going to be drought every three, four years, and so there will not be food production.

Prabhupāda: It is predicted in the Bhāgavata five thousand years ago.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're having earthquakes in China now.

Hari-śauri: Yes, big ones. They say a million people died in the last one.

Prabhupāda: You have got the keys for that?

Hari-śauri: I think they're... That last set that I gave you, Śrīla Prabhupāda? These, yes.

Prabhupāda: Print books many, as good as possible. Let us do our duty.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

rabhupāda: Yes. And all of them are successful. This time I installed Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Deity in France.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Paris, near Paris.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Near Orleans.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I am thinking of going again on a world tour for my business, because we want to start some export business. So I'll start with Iran, then some other countries in Middle East, then Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Mauritius, and Seychelles. I've got friends all over the places, so they will come here, and we have some export business, cloth...

Prabhupāda: Mauritius is not developed. Fiji is good. Mauritius a poor country. Fiji well-to-do, more business, many Gujaratis. Mostly Gujaratis.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I've got somebody in New Zealand also. They are...

Prabhupāda: Fiji and New Zealand...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Are very prosperous.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got good dealings, purchase and sell.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Each item. In Ahmedabad there is a very religious person who was not becoming life member at all. Without seeing the balance sheet and this and that. And I told him, "What do you mean by balance sheet? Only money matters? If ten thousand foreigners are being converted and they are following this religion and this culture, everything, is it not part of the balance sheet? Only rupees and paisas you want to see, then that's a different matter. Here the people are chanting every day sixteen rounds, they have left so many bad vices, they are propagating all over the world." Then he immediately signed up. He has gone to... He might have met you in New York. Chandrakanti Ravaiwala. He was to come on 8th July in New York. He has gone to America to see his son there.

Prabhupāda: In America, in New York, they have got a very...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very good temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami wrote to me, my friend was also there. Mr. Patetas has met you I think.

Prabhupāda: It is twelve...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Twelve stories.

Prabhupāda: In the middle of downtown.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī, attached to this home from which he'll be kicked out. Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll take it out, everything." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I come before you as death and take everything, whatever you have got." That's a fact. Everyone is accumulating, but at the time of death he'll be forced to give it up. He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Because he does not know what is self-interest he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on. And leaders-andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind leaders, they are encouraging, "Yes, kick yourself. You live here as nationalist. This is your interest. And fight between one nation to one nation, one man to one man." And they have taken this is value. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Next verse you read.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Fortunate vṛṣṭi. Still India fortunate. I'm coming from London, Paris, and Tehran. All fields yellow. And Europe, so much scorching heat and sunshine, I never seen. Especially in London. This time I saw everything has become yellow. Greenness gone.

Dr. Patel: The non-monsoon countries can produce more food than the monsoon countries. The monsoon comes only three months in a year. Those people get rain all year 'round, they can grow better crops. This is how so many parts of North America and Europe, they can have sufficient crops all the year. We can't have it here.

Prabhupāda: No, there is scarcity of water also. They are killing the animal premature. They cannot do it. It has come to this point.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) in favor of vegetarians. We are fools raising fodder and this thing and again raising animals on that and feeding on that. Why can't we directly feed on poor animals? I think the human race will survive more that way than by eating animals, but economically it is more sound.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Kṛṣṇa never said māṁsād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said. This is artificial. In the lower stage of human civilization when they cannot produce food they do not know how to do it, so the animals are killed. What can they do? But actual food is anna, food grains. Even for the animals. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Yajñād bhavati bhū... So there is no yajña. There is no yajña. So this saṅkīrtana-yajña is the only yajña in Kali-yuga. So if they perform, everything is all right. There will be cloud, there will be rain.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Those cows we have in the Pennsylvania farm, the two best ones, they're the two best pedigree cows in the whole of America. They have their pedigree traced back two hundred and fifty years to when the first cows came to America. Purebreds.

Prabhupāda: In our Philadelphia farm we are selling fifteen hundred dollars extra milk. Fifteen hundred dollars per month. So if cow is properly protected, it can supply immense milk.

Dr. Patel: It was Mr. Nehru, he said that we cannot prohibit cow slaughter. Therefore he made so many wrong things. (break) (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is māyā. We are...

Dr. Patel: We are praying to end rebirths by kṛṣṇa-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...

Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9).

Dr. Patel: Mām eti so'rjuna.

Prabhupāda: That is perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gītā, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: Mathematics?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.

Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing, nobody. And Sanskrit practically nil.

Prabhupāda: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think "What is the use of speculation?"

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in any particular country. This is meant for the whole human society. As you think "India" or "America," we do not think like that. We take the opportunity wherever it is possible to introduce more and more we take that opportunity.

Interviewer (5): What is the response in India?

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, we have mentioned headquarters Bombay?

Jayapatākā: We just said offices.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: They think that Los Angeles is our headquarters.

Prabhupāda: That is for America.

Gargamuni: We explain like that.

Prabhupāda: But real headquarter here.

Gargamuni: I think if one letter is given that "We are purely Indian, that I am ācārya and they are simply helping me, they are not..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: There's no customers. We have a huge stock...

Prabhupāda: You send immediately to America. They will pay.

Gargamuni: we sent a newsletter to get people to buy cloth the cloth because we have a huge stock of it.

Prabhupāda: Now, you ask Bhagavān. He is very clever. He's expert.

Jayapatākā: We are worried that now we're getting good men to join, they're doing good work, then how...

Prabhupāda: I think if you prepare according to the order of our foreign centers, then you won't be... They will all give. You can make fine cloth?

Jayapatākā: We can make up to eighty count. Eighty count we can make now.

Prabhupāda: They are purchasing cloth, shirt, and everything.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You can bring so many men and keep everyone in charge of such places, and it will develop. Money, there is no scarcity. But the difficulty is as soon as we establish, the immigration, "You go away." This is... What is this? You say the MLA and this Tarun Kanti." This is our difficulty. Otherwise there is no difficulty. We can take all the charge and develop them very nicely." So if one man is kept in charge, and after few months he's advised, "Go away," then all his training goes to hell and we have to spend another ten thousand rupees. This is the difficulty. What... We are not... Not a single case there is that we have taken any part in politics. So give us some facility. We can take charge of everything. Tell them that actually that is fact, that there is no scarcity of money. We can bring money from America and develop. There is no difficulty at all. The difficulty is the immigration department. You can say that "Prabhupāda has put this philosophy, andha..." What is that? Paṅgu. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Blind and... Depends on this... Blind and... I think you have already know. Blind man, lame man. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both of them are useless. But when they combine, the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man gives direction to the blind man, "Go this way. Go this way." So he walks. So both of them are benefited. So America has got money but blind. And India has got culture but lame. So let us combine. Then things will be done very nice. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Just like I am the same man. I was finding difficulty to start this mission in India, very, very difficult. With great hardship I published three books. But as soon as I went America, the andha-paṅgu-nyāya became successful. So this is the the position. So instead of becoming envious from political... We have nothing to do with... To the Americans unnecessarily thinking that "CIA, CIA..." Let American money and India's culture combine together, and the whole world will be benefited. America has got enough money; they can spend. Either they give me as the price of my book or anything, money is there like anything. India has got culture. So Indian culture, Vedic culture, Bhagavad-gītā culture, pushed through American money, the whole world will be benefited. Convince them. It is not the question of India, America, here... It is a cultural movement for the benefit of the whole world. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) It is cultural movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is aiming pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi. So Tarun Babu, you are such a devotee of Caitanya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants it. Pṛthivīte āche yata... Why don't you help us? Your family is devotee of Lord Caitanya, and this is spreading Caitanya's mission. You should give up everything and join this movement, if you are actually a devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Prabhupāda says that he knows at your heart you want that Caitanya's movement is spread all over the world, so far he has studied you. So let us join together. Why we should unnecessarily be biased, American and Indian and this way and that way. Let us join together and spread Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement all over the... They'll be happy. Everyone they'll be happy. Will be happy. It is such a nice... India will be glorified. America will be glorified." If we... You came here. You have got so much strength. If you work continually, the whole world will be... So those who are offering, take. Take those places. Let us begin. If anyone wants some property, we should take immediately. You said there is already building costing fifty thousand? So that's a property. So if they are offering, you take it and develop. These are historical places. Haridaspur is also historical, I think. Hm?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: After her death.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Kurgeon's plan... Lord Kurgeon wanted that let there be asking of India from the family of Victoria. He gave this plan. But this Parliament did not want that Englishman shall make India home. Then his interest will be in India. Just like America. Englishmen, as they made America their home, they declared independence. Australia. As soon as you make a home, then the more interest will be in India. Washington was Englishman. Was he not? Washington.

Jayapatākā: Yes. Well, everyone came from England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not from England. But ordinary... So Englishman, why he declared war against the English?

Jayapatākā: Their interest was in America more than England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. So as soon as you make home, your interest will be at home. So that was their policy. In those days no Englishman was allowed to purchase property in India. All his income, money, should go to England. So the Mohammedan Moguls, they made their home in India. Therefore they stayed for eight hundred years. They would not have gone. Indians did not like to finish the Mohammedan kingdom. No, never. It is the Englishmen. They penetrated and finished them, not the Indians. Indians were not against the Mohammedans. They are going on. Little bit discrepancies were there, especially during the time of Auranzeb. He was bigot Mohammedan. He hated the Hindus. Not hated, but he was a, was is called, bigot, Mohammedan? He did not hate. That was not his qualification. Auranzeb gave many contributions to the Vṛndāvana temples. Yes. And Auranzeb's grandfather, Jahangir, he gave so many temples to many brāhmaṇas. There is one village just opposite Vṛndāvana, Keśīghāṭa, Jahangipura. This village was given to a brāhmaṇa. From the income he was maintaining a temple. And Auranzeb... You know Sringarpat Goswami?

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is after your design.

Saurabha: Yes. But I haven't been in Hyderabad for at least eight months.

Prabhupāda: They have done nice.

Saurabha: Yes. Mahāṁśa Swami has done very nice. There's many good workers also in the south of India. We have a lot of difficulty in getting those men from Vṛndāvana sent to America for Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Is he anxious to get them?

Saurabha: Well, simply because they didn't speak English they delayed so much.

Prabhupāda: Now, Kīrtanānanda did not show any anxiety for that. He did not show any anxiety like that, he requires that. So why it is?

Saurabha: Well, at that time they wanted.

Prabhupāda: That time wanted? That is finished now. Don't bother.

Saurabha: All right. Because I spent a lot of time in trying to arrange that.

Prabhupāda: That was not successful. That's all right.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That, we shall go in October. We shall go. So when Saurabha has seen, that is my seeing. You give me a site plan. And we shall take it and develop it.

Gargamuni: So many of our men get ill health. They can go there...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gargamuni: ...and then come back. Then we don't have to send them to America...

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: ...because of being sick.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: We need a place-health.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wrote, he wrote that to me last year, to get a Hill Station...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Mahabaleswar(?) is well known. Yes.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: They just put things to make it seem like we're... (laughing) What is the... Everyone is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the barbed wire is there. No Blitz editor can go there. (laughter) No rogues and Blitz editors allowed. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard... Ācārya was telling me when he came from America first in the Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, that Blitz editor...

Prabhupāda: You write this. The barbed wire is there to keep away the dogs and Blitz editor.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) Okay.

Pradyumna: "Then point: At Vṛndāvana, the famed Kṛṣṇa spot, they are on a building spree. Already rupees twelve lakhs have been spent on an unfinished temple."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is bogus.

Prabhupāda: Let them say(?) unfinished. When it was finished it was more than twenty lakhs...Fifty lakhs. And the temple was opened by the governor of U.P.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: "The Indian government has been rather slow in picking up the ISKCON signals. One reason being that the genuine Kṛṣṇa devotees in the administration had been mighty pleased in the beginning with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa consciousness to America."

Prabhupāda: Genuine?

Hari-śauri: That means the genuine ones are here in India, and they were pleased with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa to America. So that means that the ones in America are not genuine.

Prabhupāda: So "You are not genuine. Therefore we are not appreciating." Genuine they appreciate. "But you are not genuine. Therefore we are criticizing you."

Pradyumna: "As far back as 1971 the Maharastra government had taken action against the foreign devotees who had chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere."

Gargamuni: That isn't true. Their action was to allow us to build our Bombay center.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's not true.

Pradyumna: "In mid 1975 the Union Home Ministry took, however, a lenient view and allowed the immigrants to stay for long periods on the specious plea that the mastering of Vaiṣṇava literature, the spiritual diet of the cultists, was not like learning shorthand." Then heading: "Contrary Pulls in Government." "Lately, of course, the center has become wise, though contrary pulls in the thinking process still persist. This was quite evident at the Raj..."

Prabhupāda: This article no sane man will take notice of it. No sane man will like. It is not very important article.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. That chief minister said.

Gargamuni: Yes. "It is a reversal of history."

Prabhupāda: So that was my policy, that I shall go America, and if the Americans become devotees then these rascals will be automatically. Here they could not appreciate. When I started, wanted to start this movement, they refused to give their son.

Hari-śauri: They always say a preacher is never appreciated in his home town.

Prabhupāda: "Swamiji, what benefit there will be by becoming brāhmaṇa, by devotee? They have to earn their livelihood." Spiritual culture is in India practically rejected. They are convinced with the idea that for spiritual culture we are so much behind this material. That is their full conviction.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhā Viṣṇu: It's a sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Victoria's time.

Hari-śauri: Even before that, though, because they were going out in the ships and... America and all.

Prabhupāda: During the first Elizabeth's time. That was the beginning.

Hari-śauri: Queen Elizabeth the First.

Maṇihāra: They went to America at that time. Pilgrim.

Prabhupāda: So what is the time of Elizabeth?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: 1600-1700, that's four hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: So within four hundred years everything finished. (laughs) Everything built up and everything finished.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: You said before it was all propaganda.

Maṇihāra: Now the Indians are coming from India, setting up big business in England. They're controlling big factories, business, so many mills, everything. In Manchester, where I come from...

Prabhupāda: There is agitation to drive away the Indians.

Maṇihāra: Now they are trying to drive away. Because they know they have money. They are taking over.

Prabhupāda: Money and intelligence also. They can organize the English very nicely. And they're not extravagant. European and American, as soon as they get money they spend it. And Indians know how to save something. I saw in London almost all Indians have got their own house. Maybe small house, it doesn't matter. But they have got their own quarters. Every Indian. And they're living very comfortably. Englishmen, local men, renting.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: Nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"? Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindaban there are many places.

Hari-śauri: Both our... Pennsylvania farm has 100 acres of woods.

Prabhupāda: Especially in America. There is enough place. And England also. There is enough place. They are not being utilized.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Kṛṣṇa? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? They haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become a Kṛṣṇa bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Kṛṣṇa, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Kṛṣṇa. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Kṛṣṇa bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabhārata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Kṛṣṇa's formula is there. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Produce sufficient quantity of anna. Everyone will be satisfied.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Indian man: These children, they are coming from which place?

Hari-śauri: France and...

Prabhupāda: The smaller one from France and the bigger one from America. International.

Indian man: And their parents also there.

Prabhupāda: They are also here. We are a society, so the gṛhasthas are there, brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, vānaprastha. All status of life. Missionaries, they have got only sannyāsīs. We have got all.

Indian man: The other missionaries?

Prabhupāda: Just like Ramakrishna Mission. They have got only sannyāsīs. No gṛhasthas. But we have got gṛhasthas also.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: No. Yesterday. Because yesterday I was to come here. But I was called by Mr. Brahmānanda and he told me that you have come here (indistinct) so that I want to know something (indistinct). One question was put up in Rājya-sabhā and he's (indistinct) there. I told him that he's full of (indistinct). There are some gentlemen of er..., labor minister and from (indistinct) Andhra Pradesh. They were also there. (indistinct) Mr. D. D. Desai is also there. (indistinct) And we have discussed at length. And we have told them and there is no restriction (indistinct) the size and to everybody. And you see then it is in Indian history, it is first time that something has been done. All people are saying that they have done in America, they have done in so many centers all over the world and then we are, something like that, it is shameful.

Prabhupāda: It is Indian culture.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also should we give you what Indian professors wrote? Like this "Dr. Mahesh Mehta at the University of (indistinct). Some of the Indian professors in America are very..." Indians in India and Indians abroad.

Krishna Modi: Indians, all Indians abroad. Abroad and also Communist countries if anybody. Give us any report. Russia, like that you should give us in a file, make a file. And one thing is this. Now second is that when we are...

Prabhupāda: This is a good book advertisement. (laughs) "Andhra government falls for Kṛṣṇa..."

Krishna Modi: (laughs) No, he has not written anything. It is only it seems that... What can be said about...

Prabhupāda: Whole government is supporting.

Krishna Modi: Supporting. His meaning is this, that this Congress government is also doing all these mischiefs, so that they will... (laughs)... That his main idea, and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also victimized by this Kṛṣṇa cult.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...

Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.

Krishna Modi: And in the comparison of India?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in some respects I found them even lower than India. You'll be amazed... I visited all the leading libraries of Russia and Leningrad. Moscow University Library, all the big libraries. These libraries don't have any foreign exchange for ordering these books. They all want to order... They were begging me for free books. They said, "Why don't you give us a donation or exchange." They have a book exchange that if they give their books then we give our books. Each library gets such little foreign exchange allowance to buy books from abroad.

Prabhupāda: A taxi driver, he was asking some bhakshish.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What is the percentage?

Krishna Modi: Before that the percentage is 97 but last year, is 1976, in the March they have reduced the income tax from 97 to 65. 67.

Prabhupāda: In America it is 25.

Krishna Modi: No, not 25, that is 45... But there is a system in West Germany that if you earn more, the tax will be less. That is their system. If people will earn 200 crores, then the tax percentage will be lower. Lower.

Prabhupāda: That is good. That is good. The psychology is that if you earn more and government will tax more, then the impetus for earning more is cut.

Krishna Modi: Therefore they have got no black money. And here the system is different. If you will earn more then you will have to pay more. It means people are not as interested in earning.

Prabhupāda: Therefore what is the use of earning? What is the use of earning?

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And a professional dancer is going and the government is paying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'd like you to take this because this also has an article at length about our Gurukula system in America.

Prabhupāda: Unless they are appreciating this culture, how they are accepting?

Krishna Modi: It is perfectly right. But they must do it like that.

Prabhupāda: Who will do. Do it... We can give you all information.

Krishna Modi: That I will speak each and every thing. I will give a speech about all these things in any way. I have got...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is later. Just came. This is a new sample copy that we have.

Krishna Modi: And what is your program, sir?

Prabhupāda: My program is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and write books. That's all.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: In America.

Prabhupāda: In America, in Europe. They have got facilities, full facilities. And government appreciates. Some of the governments they have given public holiday of the Ratha-yātrā.

Paramahaṁsa: This is from the Mayor of San Francisco proclaiming that Ratha-yātrā is a public holiday.

Krishna Modi: In America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.

Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs that I have trained them and they are dancing. So there are so many things to be done in India but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.

Krishna Modi: Ah, what is politics?

Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.