Śyāmasundara: Yes. So this Samuel Alexander says that our consciousness of an object is a mere perspective on something, but it's a real portion of that object and not just a mental image. In other words, if I see a table, I am actually reacting with that table. It is a real perspective. It's not just a mental image, but I'm actually reacting to that table. My senses are reacting with the table. It's an objective reality.
Prabhupāda: Where is the table?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Some philosophers think that if I see the table, it's merely a mental idea in my mind, that table. He says that no, there is a real objective relationship between my senses and the table, reality of the table. Is that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is right.
Śyāmasundara: That's right?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It's not just a mental image.
Prabhupāda: No, not mental. If the table is thrown upon me, I will fall. Then we cannot say that it is mental image. And it hurts me and blood oozes out; then it is not mental.
Śyāmasundara: He says that even illusions are genuinely real objects which are uncreated by the human mind. In other words, if I think I see a snake and it is actually a piece of rope, but if I think it is a snake, then it really is a snake.
Prabhupāda: That is reality of a snake; otherwise how this imagination comes to me? I have got an idea of snake. Now, in darkness there is a rope. So I may falsely take it as snake. That's doesn't matter. But snake is there. That is our argument.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind never creates anything new. It simply rearranges things. Everything already exists...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...but the mind, and the mind merely arranges it. It doesn't create anything new.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the economic law says that you cannot create anything. You simply transform. Just like this table is nothing but wood. So wood is not my creation. Wood is there, but I have transformed the wood into a state which is called a table.
Śyāmasundara: So that newness or novelty is merely rearranging. Something new, they say, "Oh, he has created something new." But it is merely a rearrangement of previously existing things.
Prabhupāda: That is that English proverb, "Necessity is the cause of invention." I require something to sit down, leaning back side, so I create a chair which is called armchair. So I sense first of all a necessity that "I must sit down very comfortably leaning towards the back." So under such spirit I make this chair, and this is called armchair. So necessity is the mother of invention.
Śyāmasundara: So all new things are created out of necessity?
Prabhupāda: New things means I create a necessity, and then, according to the plan of the necessity, the thing is there. Just like dictaphone. I feel inconvenience to dictate or the secretary has no time to take my dictation. So I may feel that "If I keep record of my dictation, the secretary will take it later on according to his convenience." So therefore the invention of a dictaphone.
Śyāmasundara: Yet many philosophers would say that this is the reason that religion has come about, that man feels a necessity for God, so he invents God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not invents. He knows God. This is natural. Just like if a sane man is there, so who is the original father? Huh? Just like I have got a father. Everyone knows. My father has a father. His father's father's father... Then who is the original father?
Śyāmasundara: So he can invent his original father.
Prabhupāda: No. He can simply know by this philosophical research who is the original father. And the Vedānta-sūtra also says, "God is He who is the original father of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
Śyāmasundara: In a sense, the man is not really inventing a chair either. There is already an idea of chair previously existing. He's just discovering it, something which already exists. Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in that sense, that I am feeling the necessity of armchair. My predecessors, they might have felt that chair, they invented. But at the present moment, my predecessor is also gone, the chair is also gone. So invention means the things which I create that was not in existence. That is called invention?
Śyāmasundara: Hm.
Prabhupāda: And discovery: The thing is already there; I simply find it out. So invention and discovery practically convey the same idea.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Because actually nothing is new. If I...
Prabhupāda: That is discovery.
Śyāmasundara: If I invent something...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, in case of God, it is discovery. It is not invention. It is discovery.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like the idea of a chair is already there in nature. Nature provides a chair.
Prabhupāda: Nature provides a sitting place. Just like when there is a slab of stone anywhere, I wish to sit down on it. Psychology. Then the next proposal is, "Why not invent something at my home? It is here in a... I cannot take it." You can say the idea was there already, to sit down on a high place comfortably. So I come home and make a chair according to that idea.