Therefore we have to invoke our love for Kṛṣṇa. Then our loving propensities will be actually satisfied. Otherwise we'll be frustrated. Otherwise, we'll be frustrate... That is going on. We may admit or not admit, but this frustration of love affair is going on. So if we... That same thing we repose in Kṛṣṇa. If I want to love my son, if I accept Kṛṣṇa as my son... Just like Yaśodāmayī accepted. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but by devotional service, He agrees to become a son. Just like Yaśodāmayī and Nanda Mahārāja, in their previous lives they underwent severe austerities, and their aim was that "We shall have a son like God, like Kṛṣṇa." So after their performance of austerities for many thousands of years, when Kṛṣṇa appeared before them, "What benediction you want?" so they proposed that "We want a son like You. Then we enter into family life. Otherwise not." So Kṛṣṇa said that "Why shall I get a son like Me? I shall become your son." This is the fact. Therefore, although Kṛṣṇa took His birth as the son and, sons of Devakī and Vasudeva, immediately ordered Vasudeva to transfer Him to Vṛndāvana to Yaśodā. So the pleasure of having son was enjoyed by Yaśodā and Nanda Mahārāja, not Devakī and Vasudeva, although they really gave birth to... And when Kṛṣṇa was grown up, then went to His real father, Vasudeva, and Devakī.
Agree (Lectures, Other)
Expressions researched:
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Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
These are the symptoms. They have no activity. They cannot become independent, because they are very lazy. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they have their independent life, but the śūdras, they are dependent. Therefore śūdra... Just like a dog. A dog, if he has no master, it is street dog. It has no value. It must be chained by a very big master. That is his life. And he very voluntarily agrees: "Come here." "Yes." So paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Paricaryā, to satisfy the master.
So our, this bhakti process is also the same. Sometimes we are criticized: "Slave mentality." Yes, we want voluntarily to become slave—of Kṛṣṇa. We are, at the present moment, we are slave of the senses. Kāma krodha moho mātsarya. Kāmādi. Kāmādi means kāma, desire to enjoy. And if our enjoyment, if our desire is not fulfilled, then we become krodhi, angry; lobhi, moha mātsarya.
Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he wanted to satisfy his own senses. "I shall not fight because if the other party, my brothers and grandfathers, they live, I shall be happy." So that is kāma. That is not prema. But when he agreed to fight because Kṛṣṇa wanted it... Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin. So that is prema. So Kṛṣṇa-prema can be executed in so many ways. Simply Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. That is prema. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So at the present moment, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā wanted: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna—Arjuna means everyone—that they should surrender to Kṛṣṇa and be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So people... Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, means God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing concocted. It is fact. Everyone is servant, but at the present moment he's serving māyā. So, instead of serving māyā, let him serve Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So that service, when one agrees to serve Kṛṣṇa... Because nobody's agreeable to serve Kṛṣṇa. They will... Kṛṣṇa personally came, canvassed. How many people are serving Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). "Oh, it is too much. Kṛṣṇa is asking that 'Give up everything and serve un..., unto Him.' It is too much." People are taking, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā, because they are mūḍhas. They are thinking, "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? I shall serve dog. I shall keep a dog and take him in the street. As soon as he stands, I shall stand. As soon as he passes urine..." (laughter) That is the position. If you don't serve God, then you have to serve god, dog, māyā.
They keep their individuality, but they become one in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Now everyone is working for his sense gratification, personal. When everyone becomes agreed that "We shall satisfy Kṛṣṇa," that is oneness. That is oneness. One nation. We can understand: one family. One family means they're individual persons, but they're working for the interest of the family—all of them combinedly, conjointly, working. Similarly, they're working conjointly for the society, or they're working conjointly for the community, or conjointly working for the nation. That is oneness. When we speak, "We are Indian nation, oneness," that oneness does not mean that every individual Indian has become homogeneous with other Indians.
That is national consciousness. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As there is national consciousness, community consciousness, family consciousness, so many other consciousness, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all persons agree to work for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is oneness. Oneness does not mean we lose our individuality. Sometimes, individually we fight. Just like in the legislative assembly, our representative, M.P.'s, they go and fight. There is a deliberation. But that purpose is to serve the country. Therefore, instead of the difference of opinions, they agree to work in this way. That is legislative assembly. Similarly, individuality there must be always, but when we find out a one means to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is oneness.
Jīva-loke. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). This individuality is sanātana, eternal. But when we disagree to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is asanātana, not sanātana. That is artificial.
So here in this material world, we have disagreed to serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the whole proposal is again agree to serve Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is real philosophy. We disagreed; therefore we came into this material world, and we are fighting with one another. Now again the proposal is, agree to this oneness, ekam. Then there will be peace. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchanti. These things are there.
Arjuna was considering how he could kill his kinsmen, his familymen, his nephew, his brother, his grandfather, on the other side. Actually, this killing business is not very good. It is sinful. But the same thing he committed after understanding Bhagavad-gītā. He agreed: kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes, I shall fight." So does it mean...? In the beginning he was considering about the sinful effects of his activities. Why did he engage himself in the same business although he knew this is sinful? No. If you... Even it is acted so-called sinful activities, for Kṛṣṇa, under the order of Kṛṣṇa, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then that is also devotion. It is very difficult. We should not manufacture such concoction. But the fact is that, if actually one is acting for Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of sinful reaction. That's a fact.
Pradyumna: "At the present moment groups of people are engaged in welfare activities in terms of society, community or nation. There is even an attempt in the form of the United Nations for world-help activity. But due to the shortcomings of limited national activities, such a general mass welfare program for the whole world is not practically possible. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, however, is so nice that it can render the highest benefit to the entire human race. Everyone can be attracted by this movement, and everyone can feel the result. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."
Prabhupāda: Go on.
Acyutānanda: "Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī and other learned scholars agree that a broad propaganda program for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement of devotional service all over the world is the highest humanitarian welfare activity."
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī has recommended:
- yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet
- sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ
His mission is, somehow or other, try to people..., try to engage people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they may think of Kṛṣṇa, some way or other. Then regulate them, after that. Actually our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, has attained little success on this principle. When we began this movement we never asked people that "You have to do this; you have to do that." No. "Please come and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." This was our policy. Never mind what you are. You may be Christian. You may be Jews. You may be Muhammadan or Hindu, Muslim. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter.
Pradyumna: (reading:) "In the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam..." Uh. "In the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, Sixth Chapter, 18th verse, Nārada also says to Yudhiṣṭhira, 'My dear King, it is Lord Kṛṣṇa, known as Mukunda, who is the eternal protector of the Pāṇḍavas and the Yadus. He is also your spiritual master and instructor in every respect. He is the only worshipable God for you. He is very dear and affectionate, and He is the director of all your activities, both individual and familial. And what's more, He sometimes carries out your orders as if He were your messenger! My dear King, how very fortunate you are because for others all these favors given to you by the Supreme Lord would not even be dreamt of.' The purport of this verse is that the Lord easily offers liberation, but He rarely agrees to offer a soul devotional service, because by devotional service the Lord Himself becomes purchased by the devotee."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.
Those who are very much passionate, simply wants to enjoy sense enjoyment, they are in the modes of passion. And those who are lazy, very fond of sleeping, nidrālasya, he's to be understood in the modes of ignorance. These are the symptoms. And according to the modes, they act. Therefore bhakti is not prohibited to either of them. Either in goodness or passion or ignorance—it doesn't matter. Anyone can take to devotional service, sādhana-bhakti, provided he agrees to be guided by the direction of the spiritual master. Bhakti is transcendental. It doesn't matter whether one is in goodness, passion or ignorance. Anyone can take.
Our concept is also to become one with God, but not that I become one with God; I agree with God. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). I agree, "Yes, Sir. So long I was foolishly conducted. Now I surrender unto You."
- mānasa deha geha yo kichu mora
- arpilūn tuyā pade nanda-kiśora
This is surrender. That is oneness. "Now I have surrendered to You everything." Mārabi rākhobi yaiche taṅhārā. This is oneness. "Whatever You like, You can do, You kill me or protect me." Ya icchā taṅhārā nitya dāsa prati tuyā adhikārā: "Because I am Your eternal slave, You can do whatever you like." Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā, yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo (CC Antya 20.47). "Whatever You like, You can do." Mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu... "Still You are my prāṇa-nātha." This is oneness. I keep my individuality, but I am so surrendered that I have nothing to disagree with Kṛṣṇa.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
He's always thinking, "How this business will go on? How this, maintain so many men?" So I have seen it that our printer, Dai Nippon, the president, when we, for the temporary, we stopped our business, he was full of anxiety. Yes. Now they have agreed to reduce ten percent more than any printer. Why? He was full of anxiety. (laughter) This is the fact. So don't think that very big, big businessman or one who has got enough money, he has no anxiety. Anxiety there should be. This is the place of anxiety, kuṇṭha. Prahlāda Mahārāja pointed it out that tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Here, in this material world, whoever is there... The Brahmā is also anxiety, in full of anxiety.
Similarly, every one of us, because we have got different types of body according to my desire, we are acting differently. So if we come back again to the spiritual platform, then we will not work differently. We shall work concomitantly. Everyone will agree with everyone. That is spiritual platform. But unless we come to the spiritual platform—we remain on the bodily platform—we shall speak differently. And as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, then we shall speak in one item only, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.
So those who are too much materially affected, their progress is very slow. Especially in this age. In this age the symptoms of the human beings is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ.
If you take shelter of the Supreme Prabhu, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then your life is successful. Sei baḍa dhanya. He is glorified. To become servant of God or Mahāprabhu is very prestigious. It is not very easy thing to become servant of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu or servant of Kṛṣṇa. So if anyone agrees to become the servant of the Supreme Prabhu, master, then his life is successful. Sei baḍa dhanya. He is glorified.
The Vaiṣṇava, their principle is to become, to come to the platform of eternal servitude. That is the philosophy of Vaiṣṇava philosophy: not to become the master but to become servant of the master. This is perfect philosophy.
When Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), it does not mean that I become one with Kṛṣṇa or merge into the existence of Kṛṣṇa. I keep my individuality, Kṛṣṇa keeps His individuality, but I agree to abide by His order. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna that "I have spoken to you everything. Now what is your decision?" Individual. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is forcing Arjuna. Yathecchasi tathā kuru: (BG 18.63) "Now whatever you like, can do." That is individuality.
So this is the ultimate knowledge, that, this Māyāvāda philosophy, that to become one, merge into the existence, merge into the existence means we merge into the order of Kṛṣṇa. Our individuality at the present moment is māyā, because we are planning so many things. Therefore your individuality and my individuality clashes. But when there will be no more clashing—we shall agree, "Central point is Kṛṣṇa"—that is oneness, not that we lose our individuality.
That is called materialist. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are bewildered. Nature's business is to keep you fool always. And if you can surpass the bewilderment of material nature, if you agree to be controlled by the supreme controller, then your life is successful. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta author says that "Here is the controller," ekala, "one." And Kṛṣṇa also says, mām ekam. Not that imitation Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be befooled. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.
So all the verdict of the śāstra is the same. It is simply our misfortune that we do not understand the verdict of the śāstra. In the śāstra, everything is there. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. That is the verdict of the śāstra.
That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. That is dealing between His devotee and Himself. Although nobody can become Kṛṣṇa's father, because He is the original father-aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2)—but He agrees to become the son of His devotee. This is called devotional dealing. Śānta, dāsya sākhya, vātsalya-rasa. This is the dealing of vātsalya-rasa. The father... Nobody can become father of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. He is the father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He is the original father. Then how nandātmaja? How Nanda Mahārāja can become the father of Kṛṣṇa? No. That father means he wanted to become the best servant of Kṛṣṇa. When I become father of my child, I am the best servant of the child, actually. You see the children moving, and the mother is taking care. So the mother is the best servant of the child.
The brāhmaṇa came and fell down on the feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and requested Him that "I have come to beg one thing from You. Please be kind to agree to this."
- sakala sannyāsī muñi kainu nimantraṇa
- tumi yadi āisa, pūrṇa haya mora mana
Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He was in the renounced order of life, sannyāsī, still, He was avoiding the company of the Māyāvādīs, who are impersonalists. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is personalist. So generally, that is the system still. The impersonalists, as soon as they see some personalist, they begin to attack by argument. So those who are not very highly developed, they avoid. But those who are conversant, they argue, so on. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, while He was staying at Benares, He was not very enthusiastic to mix with this Māyāvādī class of sannyāsīs. Therefore this man who invited all the sannyāsīs for a dinner, he also came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu and asked Him that "I know that You do not associate Yourself with the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs. Still, I have come to invite You. Please accept my request."
Differently, we cannot enjoy. As soon as we make our plan to enjoy life differently with Kṛṣṇa, then we fall under the clutches of māyā. We cannot do that. Therefore we have to revive our consciousness that we agree to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. That will give us ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. Just like if you want to enjoy your life, some way or other, if you can secure a very nice service in the government, oh, your life is fulfilled. But if you want to enjoy your life separately... The government is all-powerful. If you become a departmental secretary, oh, immediately you get five thousand dollars and everything is all right. Similarly, some way or other, if you can become a secretary of Kṛṣṇa, then your all problems solved. Don't try to enjoy independently. That is māyā. That is māyā.
There are many patis. Patis means proprietor, or husband. A husband is also considered a proprietor of the woman according to Vedic literature; therefore the word dāsī. A woman's surname is dāsī. She agrees to serve the man. You have observed, when we get young couples married, we get it promised: the husband promises that "I take charge of your life. Your whole life shall be dependent upon me. I take full charge of you." And the woman agrees, "Yes, I also agree to serve you the whole life." This is marriage. The... If we exploit, of course... But this is the nice arrangement. This is cooperation. A woman agrees that "I shall serve you," because the man requires woman's service in so many ways by her ser..., cooking, by her embracing, by her becoming beautiful, so many ways.
Now, if somebody comes, "Swamijī, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man," I'll never become, because I have got my bad experience. I'll never become. So if one is intelligent enough, if he has got actually the bitter taste of this material world, he'll never agree. He'll never agree. But those who have not advanced to such knowledge, oh, they think, "Oh, this material enjoyment is very nice. Let me taste it and let me do business in my sannyāsī life, and stealthily and privately, let me enjoy." These things are going on. That means they have no taste. They come to hospital-making or this philanthropy. This come again. Sthānād bhraṣṭād patanty adhaḥ. Ye 'nye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. "Those fools who are thinking that 'Simply by thinking myself, "I am God, I am Brahman, I have become liberated," ' " but ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvāt (SB 10.2.32), "but there is no knowledge about You, Kṛṣṇa," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam, "they, after performing so much austerity and penances, they rise up to the highest position, Brahman realization, but," patanty adhaḥ, "they fall down."
So that is very dangerous position, one who does not take care. Suppose if one wants to be educated without going to school. How it is possible? If somebody says, "Oh, I don't care for any school, colleges. I'll be educated at home," this is nonsense. Is it possible? Or will anybody recognize you? Then what is the use? Waste of time. That is the disease. Everyone thinks, "Oh, I am everything. I am perfect." That is the disease, material disease. Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I am perfect. Whatever I think, oh, that is all right." This is going on. First of all, if anyone wants advancement, he must first of all think just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is pretending, that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool (CC Adi 7.71)." So one must agree to become a great fool and study these scriptures from bona fide spiritual master. Then there is hope of advancement. Yes?
He never says that "I know everything." But actually, it is not possible to know everything. That is not possible. But one... Just like Sir Isaac Newton, he agrees that people say, "I am very much learned, but I do not know how much I have learned. I am simply collecting some pebbles on the sea shore." So that is the position. If a man who is actually learned, he'll never say that "I am learned." He'll simply say, "I am the fool number one. I do not know."
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his humbleness, because actually he was a very learned and very man of position in the society, so as a matter of reciprocation, exchange of, I mean to say, etiquette, he also accepted, "No, you are not fallen. You don't be discouraged. Simply it is the duty of any learned man to place himself like that. But you are not fool."
That is not very difficult for Kṛṣṇa, if you want to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But what is the profit? There is no profit. Suppose if you are placed in the sky, in the sunshine, and if somebody asks, "Now, you remain in the sky," would you agree? Huh? Will anyone agree that "Let me remain in the sky as a small particle of the sunshine"? No. You can agree out of some sentiment, but you cannot stay there. That is not possible. Therefore, those who merge into the existence of Brahman, impersonal Brahman, they again fall down. Just like they are going moon excursion, Mars excursion. "Stay there." They cannot stay. Because, actually, whether they are going or not—that's another thing—but there is no staying place. Simply rotating in the sky is not very pleasant thing. We have got experience in the airplane. If we go five or six hours in the planes, we become suffocated. So it is not possible. Therefore those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they again fall down, because they have no engagement in Kṛṣṇa's business. They never cultivated such knowledge.
"No, I am not going to submit to anyone. I don't require." Just see. How much foolishness there is. Just like a dog, for his bread he'll submit everyone, but for his spiritual emancipation, oh, he's not agreeing to submit. Just see the foolishness. For bread, which is already settled by the nature, he'll submit to everyone. Just like dog goes from door to door and moves its tail that "Give me a bread. Give me a bread." Yes. So this application is a doggish... In the Bhāgavata it is stated that the, the brāhmaṇa, a kṣatriya, if he's poverty-stricken, he may accept something mercantile, but don't be a dog. This modern civilization is teaching people to become dog. Go door to door! (break) ...the saintly person, the representative of Kṛṣṇa, they are always trying to distribute this mercy. So if somebody by his fortune accepts this mercy then he can become, mean, aloof from these material troubles.
They are always merciful. But one has to accept them and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sādhu-śāstra-kṛpāya yadi kṛṣṇonmukha haya. And as soon as he agrees to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then his path becomes clear. He'll get rid of these material clutches and this always full life full of anxiety and problems, he'll kick. These things, sādhu, śāstra, saintly person and scripture, they have to be accepted. If you don't accept them, then there is no other way. Why there is no other way? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī (BG 7.14). He's citing again from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is the book of evidence. Lord Caitanya is citing. Because it is Vedic. Just like in the law court you have to cite section from the law book, not from your concocted mind.
Simply you have to accept, and surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa also says the same thing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), the same thing. Nitya dāsa. Unless you accept yourself as servant of Kṛṣṇa, how you can agree that "Yes, I surrender to You"? Surrender is made to somebody who is superior, not to the equal person. So Kṛṣṇa demanding that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that means that we are servant. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can order that? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving mukti immediately teaching the same thing—jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dāsa. And Kṛṣṇa also says that this understanding, that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," is realized after many, many births.
If I commit burglary? Oh." The Cāṇakya, the Cārvāka Muni replied, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "Well, when your body will be burnt into ashes, who is coming here and who is going to be responsible? Don't think all these." So this is atheistic theory. They don't believe that there is transmigration of the soul. He has to take another body and he has to take body according to his work, and there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and human body is the most benefactory. So they do not know all these things. So this is called āvaraṇātmikā, covering influence.
So covering influence and throwing influence. Out of these two influences, one can come out if he agrees to surrender unto the Supreme Lord. Otherwise there is no other way. He'll be, he'll be always covered or be thrown again.
Now you have to utilize it, develop it. The aim and objective is already there. But in the Vedic literature they are very explicitly presented. That is the difference. The Christians, they agree, "God is great." We also agree, "God is great." But how God is great, that is explained in the Vedic literature. That is the difference between... There is no difference of opinion if one is actually religious. God created this world, God is the supreme father, God is great. This is accepted by everyone, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian. There is no doubt about it. But in the Vedic literature you'll understand how God is great, how He is acting as father. That's all. Even God's name is there, God's address is there. Do you agree to this point?
That is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa, Hari... Although Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist, but he has accepted Nārāyaṇa, Hari, the Supreme Lord, as beyond this material infection. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. And he has also agreed to accept Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. It is accepted by Śaṅkarācārya. Those who are reading the commentary by Śaṅkarācārya on the Bhagavad-gītā, he will find in the beginning of that nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ. So it is also confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that harir hi nirguṇaḥ sākṣāt: "Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is beyond the touch of this material qualities." Therefore His body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is not made of this tri-guṇa. Our, this material body is made of these three guṇas:
I cannot offer my daughter to you. You are old man. You have got your son. So I cannot offer." He was bargaining. "No? Why? I shall give your daughter a palace. We shall enjoy so many years." "No. I can offer you my daughter provided if my daughter's son becomes the king after your death. Then I can offer." "Oh, that I cannot agree, because my eldest son is living. That I cannot agree." "Then I..."
So Bhīṣma understood that "My father wants to marry that girl, but the only impediment is that the father of the girl is making a condition that her son should be king, and my father is declining because I am present. I should be king." Oh, he at once approached the father of the girl: "What is your condition, sir?" "This is my condition." "All right, I shall not accept kingdom of my father. Your daughter's son will be king. I agree to this." "Oh, no. You may agree, but your son will again claim, because you are the proprietor, you are the prince." "Oh, you think so? Then I shall not marry. I shall not marry. Is that all right?"
Therefore, if one agrees to serve Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master, follows the instruction of spiritual master, and engages himself in the service of the Supreme Lord, māyā-jāla chuṭe, pāya kṛṣṇera caraṇa, then he can get out of this network of illusory energy and pāya kṛṣṇera caraṇa, and he can get the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa.
- cāri varṇāśramī yadi kṛṣṇa nāhi bhaje
- svakarma karite se raurave paḍi' maje
Cāri varṇa. Cāri varṇa means four castes, four division of human society: the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriya, the vaiśyas and the śūdras. They have got their specific duties. One who is brāhmaṇa, he has got his specific duty. Culture, cultivation of knowledge is their first and foremost duty. Similarly, kṣatriya, he has got his specific duty. The fore and foremost is to establish good administration in the state. And vaiśya, he has got also specific duty.
This was the contract between the... So that the teacher may very quickly make him qualified. So teacher agreed, "Yes. I shall make you qualified within one year. So you have to pay me five million dollars," like that, something. So when he was qualified, passed his law examination, he said, "Now you come. You practice in the court." So he said, "No. I am not going to practice." "Then pay me." "How can I pay? If I practice, then I'll pay, but I am not going to practice."
So this kind of law student, that he has learned all laws and he has become lawyer officially by his degree, but he's not going to practice... So similarly, if we simply know what is Brahman and what is not Brahman, but do not practice, it is just like that. It is useless waste of time. If you become a medical man, but if you don't practice as a medical man, then why should you take so much trouble?
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
Adurlabha ātma-bhaktau. But He is available from His devotee. If you approach a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he can deliver you Kṛṣṇa like anything: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Take." Kṛṣṇa is so nice. He becomes a doll in the hands of devotee. He agrees. Just like before Mother Yaśodā He was trembling. Mother Yaśodā showed Him the cane.
So this is Kṛṣṇa's merciful pastime, that He becomes very easily available to the devotees. Otherwise it is very difficult to find out where is Kṛṣṇa, how is Kṛṣṇa. So our process is therefore to go through the devotees, not directly. Directly one cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa... Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.33). We worship Govinda, the original Personality of Godhead. That is our business.
"First of all break your bow, then I shall tell you." "Oh, if I break my bow, then my business instrument is gone." "No, don't be afraid." "Then how shall I eat?" "Oh, I shall send you food." So then he agreed: "If you solve my food problem, then I will follow you." So Nārada said, "Yes, I shall send you all kinds of food. You give up this business, and come with me." So the hunter and his wife went with Nārada, and Nārada fixed them a place on the bank of the Ganges at Prayāga, and he said that "You sit down here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I shall send you all food that you require." "All right sir. Don't forget (laughter), because I have given up my business." (laughter)
Festival Lectures
"All right. Let them have it."
Similarly, there are two kinds of living entities: nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta, eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. You see? So for the conditioned... They will never agree to abide by God. Therefore, for them, this material world, the external energy: "All right, you do whatever you like. You do according to..." But still, there is canvassing work. Oh, God sends His son to canvass, "Oh, this is not your right engagement. Please come back to home, back to Godhead." Kṛṣṇa comes. God Himself comes. He sends His devotees. He comes as a devotee just to again reclaim, but they are so stubborn, they will not give up this habit. Even in their so-called spiritual cultivation they are thinking that "I am God. I am the mover of the sun. I am the mover of the moon. I am the supreme," in this way. That is the disease. You see? So as for the diseased person, there is a hospital. There is operation is going on. So many severe things are going on.
His example was that in spite of continuous torturing by his father, he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. This we have to follow. In spite of all kinds of inconveniences and torture by the atheist class of men, we shall never forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There were many examples. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was tortured. So he was crucified, but he never agreed that there is no God. So that should be our motto. This is following. Either you be Christian or be Hindu or be any, but be God conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means God conscious. And in any circumstances do not forget. That is called śaraṇāgati. That is surrender.
"That this worldly life, materialistic life, is self-killing just like a dark well. So one should give it up and go to the forest and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That is the best way of life." So his father became very angry. So the atheist and the theist, they will never agree. But theist also never will submit to the atheist. This is the principle. Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many troubles by his father, but he never forgot chanting namo bhagavate vāsudevāya namaḥ. He never forgot.
So we should take lessons from this story that even in dangerous position, we should not be forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will save us.
If anyone wants to understand this philosophy through philosophical angle of vision or scientific angle of vision, we have got immense volumes of books. You can read and try to understand what is this great movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But you can also, without reading books, without taking any trouble, if you simply agree to chant this mahā-mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you get the same result. Even a child can join. Actually we have experienced that a child, a dog, an animal, everyone takes part in this movement. During the Lord Caitanya's movement, when He passed through a great forest known as Jharikhaṇḍa... Central India there is a great forest. Along with Him, the tigers, the elephants, the deers, everyone danced and chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Take a grass on your mouth and immediately fall on his feet, padayor nipetya, and with folded hands, much flattering. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca. All flattering words. Ahaṁ bravīmi. So immediately he will agree, "Yes, what you say I'll hear. I'll hear." Immediately, convert to hear you at least. Just see how perfect process is. "Then what is your purpose, sir? Why you are becoming so humble, meek? And now say." "Yes sir, I'll say." What is that? He sādhavaḥ, "You are a great sādhu." Although he may be rascal number one. Still, you call him, he sādhavaḥ. "Yes, I am sādhu, yes. What is your proposal?" "Now kindly forget all nonsense, whatever you have learned. That's all. I am flattering you because I want that you forget everything, all these yogis and this and that and that and meditation.
Of course, it will take some time. I don't think you can give us so much time. The net, the result is that when Kṛṣṇa talked like this, then His father agreed not to perform the sacrifice. Because all the inhabitants of Vraja, Vṛndāvana, they are so much fond of Kṛṣṇa, whatever Kṛṣṇa will say, they will accept. So although Kṛṣṇa was a boy, He implored his father and other elderly gentlemen present there that "There is no need of performing this sacrifice." So they stopped sacrifice. As a result of this stopping, Indra became very much angry, and there was torrents of rain, incessant rain, and very vehemently. So the whole village and whole tract of land comprising the Vrajabhūmi, they became overflooded. And the cows and the animals and the people became too much afflicted. So they had no other source. They approached Kṛṣṇa, "Protect us. Kṛṣṇa, protect us." So at that time Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, I will give you protection."
Everyone knows, but he still commits theft. Why? He is dictated by the lusty desires.
So pravṛtti means we are dictated by our kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, and we should agree to be dictated by Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is intelligent. Pravṛtti, nivṛtti. Our pravṛtti is to abide by the dictation of the senses, and when we learn not to abide by the dictation of the senses but to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, then your life is successful. This teaching, this learning, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not difficult. Everyone can do it. Simply he has to change: instead of being dictated by the senses, one should be dictated by Kṛṣṇa. That requires qualification. Kṛṣṇa is there, in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61).
At that time, I argued with him that "We are dependent nation, and who is going to hear about our message?" So he defeated my argument. (aside:) There is no necessity of closing. Yes. He defeated my argument. He was learned scholar. What I was? I was still boy. So I agreed (chuckles) that I was defeated. So after finishing our visit with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, I got some impression that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's message very seriously. Now it will be preached." My friend asked my opinion, that "What is your opinion?" So I gave this opinion, that "Here is a person who has taken Lord Caitanya's movement very seriously, and now it will be preached."
Now, it is clearly stated here that what is that Absolute Truth, because as soon as you understand Absolute Truth, then there must be a process of activity, the process of activity. Just like we do sometimes business. First of all we understand each other and make an agreement. Then there will be business procedure. And then, next stage is profit. Any way you take it... Suppose a boy and a girl agrees to get themselves married. So that is called agreement: "Yes, I shall marry you. You shall become my husband." "You shall become my wife." That is agreement. Then they should live together as a husband and wife. And the result is that they get good child, very nice child, lovely child. So everything, first there is to establish relationship. The next work is to act on that relationship. And the result—then enjoy.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
You just come here in the Bowery Street, and as soon as you get some money, you purchase one bottle and lie down." That is life.
So this is the position. But still, as living representative of Kṛṣṇa, our duty is to save these fallen conditioned souls. That is our duty. One may agree to come or not come. It doesn't matter. You try your best to bring him to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness position. Then Kṛṣṇa will be happy. "Oh, this person is trying." Because it is Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa comes. He advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And we are saying the same thing, that "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Therefore we are living representative of Kṛṣṇa. We are saying nothing else. Our only business is to repeat the Kṛṣṇa's word. Therefore we are representative.
This is the instruction we get from Bhagavad-gītā, how Arjuna in the beginning was declining to serve Kṛṣṇa on consideration of his bodily attachment, but at the end he decided, "No, it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa, not to serve my senses." And that is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Similarly, when we actually become self-realized and agree to serve the Supreme Lord... The another point is that Lord is perfect. He doesn't require our service, but if we are engaged in His service, that is our healthy condition. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Now I am asking this finger, "Keep like this. Move like this." This is healthy condition of the finger. But if I want to take service from the finger in some way but if the finger cannot serve me, this means unhealthy condition. Similarly, when we do not serve God, that is our unhealthy condition. That is material condition.
There was a house, very small house, one part of this space-25 feet by one 100 feet. So they wanted $100,000. So I wrote one rich friend in India, industrialist—perhaps you know him, that Kanpurwalla, Singaniya. So he agreed to pay me, but the government did not allow. The Indian government did not allow to transfer money from India to here. Then I approached the, what is that? Salvation Army, the chief man. I offered him that "You are spending money in India. So I have got a friend, he'll pay you, you pay me here." So he asked me "What is the rate you want to pay me?" So I told him, "The present rate is five dollars..., five rupees, one dollar." So he remained silent. That means he wanted more. In this way I had no place. What to speak of temple, I had no residential place even.
So Bhagīratha said, "My mother, don't hesitate. When a holy man will take bath in your water, then all the sins he will assimilate." Then she agreed. "Yes. That's..." So if we become holy man, actually, then immune. There is no difference. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. These are bogus, that "I do not go out of Vṛndāvana." They are making Vṛndāvana limited. Vṛndāvana is not limited. Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, wherever there is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, that is Vṛndāvana. That is Vṛndāvana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He, once only, He went to Vṛndāvana. Does it mean He was not in Vṛndāvana? So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that preaching must go on in hell and heaven.
Initiation Lectures
What are these? Niṣiddhācāra. These are injunction by Lord Caitanya, that no illicit sex life, no intoxication, no, I mean to say, nonvegetarian dishes, and no gambling. These four principles. So they agree, and he is given initiation for chanting beads, Hare Kṛṣṇa, at least sixteen rounds daily. So if one follows the rules and regulation rigidly...
And the next initiation is this dvijatvam. Dvijatvam means twice-born. Twice-born one becomes immediately when he approaches a spiritual master, but the sacred thread is offered as the symbol that he has a spiritual master. Just like there is some phase, there is some degree. So this sacred thread is offered after one year. One who has followed strictly the rules and regulation and chanted sixteen rounds Hare Kṛṣṇa at least, so he is given the second chance.
So when they surrendered to Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu with confession, "My Lord, we have committed so many sinful activities. Please save us," that Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked them that "Yes, I will accept you and I'll save you, provided you promise that no more you shall commit such sinful activities." So they agreed, "Yes. Whatever we have done, that's all right. No more we are going to do it." Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted them and they became great devotee and their life was successful.
The same process is here also. This initiation means that you should, everyone should remember that whatever sinful activities one might have done in his past life, that is now account closed. Debit and credit closed. Now, from this day, no more sinful activities. What are those sinful activities? That is simple.
He said that "I have learned this mystic power; I can walk on the water." This is called laghimā-siddhi, to become so light that one can fly in the air or one can walk on the water. So everyone became inquisitive. "Oh, please show me. Please show us one day." So he agreed, "All right. I shall show on that day." Then one old man said, "My dear friend, you have been so long with the yogis, but you have learned only two-cent-worth power." "What is that?" "Now you will walk over the water, and I shall pay two cent to the boatman. He will take me to the other side. (laughter) So what you have gained? You have so much labored, but you have gained only two-cent-worth thing." You see? So these yogis are after two cent. (laughter) Even they are perfection. There is no... If they are perfect... Without being perfect, they are nothing, simply rascals.
So long you are rendering service to the state properly, your independence as citizen is there. But as soon as you rebel against the state, your independence is gone. Similarly, our, this conditional life is due to our rebellious condition towards God. As soon as we agree surrender and be one with Him by transcendental loving service, the whole thing becomes adjusted. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach people and to give them practical suggestion and help to... (end)
Student: Are there any formal rules that they agree to accept at this stage? Over and above the earlier...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Only form is that the mantra which will be given to him, he has to chant that mantra three times a day, morning, early in the morning, and in the noon, and in the evening. Tri-sandhya. Tri-sandhya means three times, junction of different moments. Morning, day and night, evening, day and night, junction, and the noon, afternoon and before noon. Three times.
Student: Does taking the initiation create a permanent bond between disciple and guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is already done. When they were initiated hari-nāma, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that acceptance of... Tasmāt guruṁ prapadyeta. Just like one has to enter himself into some educational institution for being educated more and more, similarly, one has to first of all accept a bona fide spiritual master.
Yogamāyā: No meat-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication.
Prabhupāda: So you agree?
Yogamāyā: (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: All right. Come on. Next. (japa) (break)
Aravinda: Chāyadevī dāsī.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Aravinda: Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī.
Prabhupāda: Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī. Chāyadevī means material nature. That is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Acts according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Come on. You know the rules and regulation? All right.
Aravinda: Kaumadakī.
Śyāmasundara: Now you change places.
Prabhupāda: So you have agreed that there is no question of divorce in your life? In any circumstances you cannot separate. Is that all right? You also agree? You cannot separate. There is no question of divorce. Even if you fight, you can remain in one temple, he can remain, but there is no question of divorce. So take in mind. That's all. Now have this...
Śyāmasundara: Er, the Hanumān sannyāsa...
Prabhupāda: After this yajña. After this.
It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Now, this boy is very tender age. He has renounced this material life. He has got young wife, but still, he has given up with mutual consent. The wife also has agreed that "You take sannyāsa for the service of Kṛṣṇa." So this is actually renouncement. Young boy, young man, everyone wants young wife, enjoy this material life. But he has renounced everything. This is great sacrifice. Instead, in spite of presence of young wife and facilities for material enjoyment, one who renounces for the sake of serving Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. He is called sannyāsa. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). For better service he ceases to act materially. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. That is sannyāsī. He is therefore called gosvāmī. His name is, from this day, Sudāmā das Gosvāmī.
Cornerstone Ceremonies
When I was on the Commonwealth Jetty, Pier, yes, I was thinking that "Who will hear me? As soon as I shall say to these people that 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication and no gambling,' immediately they will say, 'Please go home. Don't talk here.' " Because I know that. This is their daily life. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa they agreed. All these students, all these disciples... I do not accept anyone as my disciple that "You can do whatever you like." No. My first condition is that "You must be sinless."
Wedding Ceremonies
Because I want to see them properly progress towards spiritual life. Therefore, although it is not the business of a sannyāsī to take part in marriage ceremony, in this country, just to save my students, both boys and girls, from sinful activities, I am personally taking interest that they may become good gentleman and lady by marriage. So I am very happy that those boys and girls who have agreed, and they are now married and getting children, and they are feeling very happy. Many of them are present in this meeting. From their face, from their activities, it appears that they are very happy. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we have got this program that if some boy or girl wants to get married, I help. So this marriage ceremony is today arranged on that principle. But the present bride and bridegroom must know it certainly that this marriage is not for sense gratification. This marriage is for purification of life. So there is no question of divorce.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them come also.
Satyabhāmā: (aside:) Would you like to sit on cushions?
Prabhupāda: So both the parents agree in this marriage.
Satyabhāmā's father: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. Now those who are initiated, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on your beads. (devotees chant japa) (break) (recitation of fire sacrifice prayers)
Prabhupāda: Now, you are father?
Satyabhāmā's father: Yes.
Paramānanda: Yes, I accept.
Prabhupāda: And you say, "Yes, I agree."
Paramānanda's father: Yes, I agree.
Prabhupāda: Now you say that "My dear such and such, I agree to serve you throughout my life."
Satyabhāmā: Paramānanda, I agree to serve you throughout my life.
Prabhupāda: And you say, "My dear such and such, I take your charge of life throughout without hesitation."
Kṛṣṇa says, "anyone who goes back to Godhead, then he does not require to come back again to this place, which is full of miseries." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Duḥkhālayam means it is a place of misery, this material world. And aśāśvatam. Aśāśvatam means temporary. Even if I agree, "All right, it is a miserable place. Let me live here perpetually," no. That also will not be allowed. As soon as there will be order, "Please get out," you have no power to remain. Suppose... We are Indian. We are poverty-stricken or we are not very happy materially. You American people, you are very happy. But the nature of law is stringent both for the Indians and Americans equally. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is particularly to go back to Godhead, giving up this material world, which is full of miserable life. It is actually full of miseries, but those who are thinking that "I am happy," or "We are happy," they are under illusion, māyā. That is called māyā. Actually, there is no happiness, because the Supreme Personality of Godhead says it is a place of misery. How you can make it comfortable place?
That is eternal. Similarly, this girl also met me in San Francisco, and she is very faithfully living with this society. She is very mild. So I have selected, "Śyāma dāsī, you should marry Hayagrīva." So they have agreed. And there is no separation. Our relationship is eternal. There is no separation. And this marriage is primarily for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bodily relationship is secondary. That is not a very important thing. Our first engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in this happy ceremony, I have got my heartfelt blessings upon you. You be happy. Our parents are present here. It is a very nice arrangement. And forget... In any circumstances... This material world we have to pass through many circumstances, but sometimes, even it is intolerable, we have to tolerate.
So in this age, as we find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, marriage can be performed simply by agreement. Svīkāram eva hi udvāhe. That is sufficient. And actually it is being carried on in every country. The boys and girls go to a magistrate and give their statement and agree. That is marriage. Here also the same principle will be carried under some Vaiṣṇava rites, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and offering prayers to the ācāryas and Deities.
So we have got all the Vedic arrangement, varṇāśrama-dharma, but our only aim is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether one is householder or a sannyāsī or a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or a vaiśya, śūdra. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.46). Everyone should engage his energy to satisfy the Supreme Lord.
General Lectures
Because constitutionally we are servants. We cannot do without serving. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting is a servant. Now, these boys who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have agreed to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So their problem is solved. But others, who are thinking that "Why shall I become the servant of God or servant of Swamijī? I shall become the master..." But actually, he cannot become the master. He's the servant of his senses, that's all. Just try to understand. Servant he must be, but he's servant of his lust, he's servant of his avarice, he's servant of his greediness, servant of his anger, servant of so many things. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. In higher state, somebody has become the servant of humanity, somebody has become the servant of the society, somebody has become the servant of the country, but actual purpose is that "I shall become the master."
Arjuna is a living entity, living being, a human being, but he is in love with Kṛṣṇa as friend. And in exchange of his friendly love, Kṛṣṇa has become his driver, his servant. Similarly, if every one of us, we become reinstated in the transcendental platform of loving Kṛṣṇa, then our aspiration of mastership will be fulfilled. That is not known at present, but if we agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we'll see that Kṛṣṇa is serving you. That is a question of realization. But if we want to get out of this service of this material world, of the senses, then we must transfer our service attitude to Kṛṣṇa. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
The beasts, they are also under senses. The men, human being, and everyone, the demigods, everyone within this material world, they are after senses, serving the senses. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You just surrender unto Me. Just agree to serve Me. Then I take charge of you." That's all. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Because by the dictation of the senses we are committing sinful activities life after life; therefore we are in different grades of bodily presentation. Don't think that everyone is of the same standard. No. According to one's own work he gets a type of body. So these different types of bodies are due to different grades of sense gratification. So sense gratification is there in the hog's life also. Why he has been offered a body of the hogs? So much sensuous that it has no discrimination who is mother, who is sister, or who is this, or who is that. This is practical, you'll see. The dogs and hogs, they are like that. In human society also there are many who don't care who is mother, who is sister, or who is this. The senses are so strong. And this is our cause of all miseries, try to understand. The threefold miseries that we are suffering, that we are trying to make a solution, is due to this dictation of the senses.
Prabhupāda: You have got natural tongue. So you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you can hear Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from persons who are in the knowledge. So there is no impediment. No impediment. It does not require any prequalification. Simply you have to use whatever asset you have got. That's all. You must agree. That is wanted. "Yes, I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That depends on you because you are independent. If you disagree, "No. Why shall I take to Kṛṣṇa?" nobody can give you. But if you agree, it is here, very easy. Take it.
Guest: Maybe you've already answered this. I'm not sure. I didn't hear. But I have always been taught since I was a little kid to love God and then I will love everything. Is God Kṛṣṇa?
Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees repeat) So we are worshiping Govindam, the reservoir of all pleasures, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa. And He is ādi-puruṣaṁ, the original person. So govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Bhajāmi means "I worship," "I surrender unto Him and I agree to love Him." These are the terms offered by hymns by Brahmā. That Brahma-saṁhitā is a, considerably a large book. The first verse in the Fifth Chapter it is said that the Lord, Govinda, He has got His particular planet, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is beyond this material sky. This material sky you can see as far as your vision go, but beyond that material sky there is spiritual sky. This material sky is covered by material energy, mahat-tattva, and there are seven layers of covering of earth, water, fire, air.
It is not a fact in other planets there is no life. That is a nonsense. Every planet there is life, but they have got different situation, different atmosphere. The moon planet is very cold. Even the modern scientists, they agree that the temperature in the moon planet is below two hundred degree zero. So it is very cold. Similarly, sun planet is very hot. Similarly, there are other planets which is made of air, some planets made of water. These five elements, earth, water, air, ether, this is the, these are the ingredients of material world. So some planet is made of something, some planet is made of something. But this earth is made of earth only, and water. So in the sunshine you see, you go by airplane, go in the "friendly sky" above the... You see everything impersonal. Simply glaring sunshine, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Arjuna, when he was thinking in terms of his personal sense gratification, he was under mahāmāyā. And when he agreed to execute the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he's under yogamāyā.
Upendra: How is it Arjuna, if he was eternally liberated...
Prabhupāda: Because he is living entity, he is marginal. There is chance of... Marginal means... I have explained several times. Just like the land. Between the ocean and the land, there is a portion of land which is sometime merged within water, sometimes it is land. So a living entity's position is like that, marginal energy. He may be under the influence of yogamāyā or he may be under the influence of mahāmāyā. When he is under the influence of mahāmāyā, that is his conditional life. And when he is under the influence of yogamāyā, he's free. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (end)
From the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā we learn very clearly that Arjuna in the beginning did not want to fight with his brothers and relatives. But after understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, when he dovetailed his consciousness with the superconsciousness of Kṛṣṇa, it was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A person in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness acts by the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, and so Arjuna agreed to fight the battle of Kurukṣetra. In the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness this dictation of the Lord is received through the transparent medium of the spiritual master. When one is sufficiently trained and acts with submissive faith and love for Kṛṣṇa under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master, the dovetailing process becomes more firm and accurate. At this stage (Kṛṣṇa) dictates from within. From without the devotee is helped by the spiritual master, the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, and from within the Lord helps the devotee as caitya-guru, being seated within the heart of everyone.
The developing process is stopped immediately, as soon as the spirit spark is gone out of it. So the conclusion is, matter cannot develop without spirit being within. So this material world, it is developing. The modern scientists also agree that the universe is increasing in volume. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa has entered within this universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore it is developing. So there are innumerable universes, and so therefore there are innumerable Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇus. Because without Viṣṇu entering, this universe cannot develop. And the first creature is Brahmā. From the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, a lotus flower is grown. And upon that, Brahmā is the first creature. So the first creature is the most intelligent person. So Darwin's theory cannot be applicable because his theory is that human form develops after many evolution.
This, these two words, means to accept authority. So śiṣya means one who accepts the authority of the spiritual master. He voluntarily accepts the rulings or the punishment of the spiritual master. That is called śiṣya. One voluntarily agrees to the spiritual master... This initiation is going on. This is the beginning of voluntary acceptance of the spiritual master. That means he agrees that he will abide by the orders of the spiritual master. This is called acceptance of spiritual master. Śiṣya. Śiṣya means voluntarily accepting the ruling. Everyone is free. If I give you some ruling, why should you accept it? Therefore this formal initiation ceremony is performed. He promises, "My dear sir, I shall abide by your order." So Kṛṣṇa was accepted by Arjuna as spiritual master just to teach him what is the actual duty in that warfield. So at that time the first śiṣya, śāsana, ruling:
What is God. That is the limit of. And to understand that knowledge, vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ. The most learned scholars, they have agreed that if you want to achieve knowledge, then you should study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vidyā bhāgavatāvadhiḥ. Limit of knowledge, limit of education, highest limit of education can be found in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was narrated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī and it was heard by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. At that time he was the emperor of the world. He was very big emperor. Formerly, at least five thousand years ago, there were not many flags. There was only one flag. Now, with the advancement of civilization and in the name of United Nation, we are simply increasing flags.
Out of that, one Purāṇa is called Agni Purāṇa, and another Purāṇa is called Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa. So in these two purāṇas, and many other purāṇas also, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is there, that in this age... "In this age" means this age of Kali, where everything is based on disagreement and dissension. Nobody will agree with others' proposal. Everyone is thinking that "I am independent. I can think in my own way. I can have my own process of self-realization." So many. Therefore it is recommended in this age that for self-realization these mantras, sixteen mantra, should be chanted... Faithfully. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as follows: kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Golden Age, when everyone was pious, at that time, meditation was recommendation. Meditation. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum: meditation on Viṣṇu.
Similarly, although God is far, far away, He is everywhere at the same time. That is God's nature. Simply we have to agree that "Now I shall realize..." (break) ...without any difficulty, very easily. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, yayātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.6). And without spiritual realization you cannot have peace of mind. That is impossible. If you want to make... If you want to have peace of this world, of your mind, of your society, of your family, simply by amassing money, by material advance, it will never be possible. But if you improve a little in spiritual life, you become immediately happy.
Guest (2): I'm sorry, I couldn't agree with you that Śiva is a demigod. I couldn't believe it.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in everywhere. You have to learn it.
Guest (3) (Indian man): (indistinct) ...consciousness, then what is that other Kṛṣṇa? Or, other than Kṛṣṇa, what (indistinct) And wherefrom (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. I quite follow you. Everywhere is sunshine, but still, the sun's situation is a particular place.
Yes. That's very nice. We completely agree. We say that chant the holy name of God. The vibration, the sound which you chant, that must be the holy name of God. Then it is all right. It doesn't matter what is the language. Language has nothing, no significance. But this word "Kṛṣṇa," we consider it is transcendental vibration because all great saints and ācāryas, they chanted, especially Lord Caitanya. As I explained from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam (SB 11.5.32). Kṛṣṇa varṇa, kṛṣṇa varṇayati. Lord Caitanya was always chanting, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Therefore He is called kṛṣṇa varṇayati, kṛṣṇa-varṇam. Tviṣākṛṣṇam: by complexion He's not black. Kṛṣṇa was blackish, but Lord Caitanya, He was golden colored. So kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam: always associated by followers.
The Lord says that "One who comes to Me," mām upetya, "he hasn't got to come back to this condition of miserable life." Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And if anyone agrees, "All right, let it be miserable or pleasant, I don't mind. I want to remain here..." Just like there are many scholars and many new doc..., degrees holder, they say that "We want to remain in this world happy." But who is going to allow you to remain in this world? You'll not be allowed. Even if you agree that "In spite of all miserable conditions, I shall be happy to live in this world," but the nature will not allow you to live. Immediately, as soon as there is call that "You have to leave this place immediately..." "Oh, I have manufactured these things so nicely, I have got this good apartment, dress, and my wife and children.
As I am repeatedly placing before you with all humbleness that this movement is very, very much essential, not only at the present moment, but also all the time. And specially in this age, Kali-yuga, the age of disagreements and quarrel. Kali-yuga means nobody agrees with anyone. Everyone has got his own opinion, however condemned it may be. And on that point everyone is prepared to fight with one. Therefore it is called Kali-yuga. So putting different theories, philosophical speculations, will not solve the problems of the world, because not only during this age, but in all other ages also, there are different philosophers, different scriptures. That is the law of this material nature. Here there is no oneness. Duality. This world is meant for duality. So it is called dvaita. Dvaita means duality. So Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna, ei bhāla ei manda saba manodharma. In the world of dualities, bhadrābhadra, "This is good, this is bad, this is nice, this is not nice," they are simply mental speculation because in this world nothing is nice.
This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She is being taught from the very beginning of her life how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So it is not difficult. It depends only on training. Even in this old age, and especially in this age this method is very simple. Simply we have to agree to accept it. That's all. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the simplest form of self-realization and advancement in spiritual life.
So Kṛṣṇa, as I was talking, that Kṛṣṇa is sitting in everyone's heart. And as soon as one is inclined to serve Him, He is also ready to respond immediately. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). One who is engaged twenty-four hours in His service, in Kṛṣṇa's service, bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam , not as a matter of routine... Of course, we have to begin as a matter of routine.
Immediately, without waiting for a second, and then Kṛṣṇa takes charge. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ.
So it is not very difficult business, simply we'll have to agree, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa. So long I did not surrender unto You. Now I immediately surrender unto You." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he sang a very nice song, that arpiluṅ tuyā pade nanda-kiśora. Mānasa deho geho jo kichu mora. He says that "Whatever I possess." First thing his mind, mānasa. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. First of all we have to give our mind to Kṛṣṇa because mind is the creative force by which we become entangled. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that mind is the enemy or mind is the friend. If you can create your mind your friend, then there is immense profit Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if you create your mind enemy, the mind will drag you in so many things, you will forget your duty and responsibility of human life.
You cannot kill even an ant, then you dissatisfy God. Take for example just like a gentleman has got five sons, one of them is useless, doing nothing. But if the expert son says, "My dear father, your this son is useless. Let us kill him and eat," cannibal. Will the father agree, "Oh, yes, yes, this son is useless. You can kill and eat"? Time will come in this Kali-yuga when actually people will become what is called man-eater. Still there are existence man-eaters in Africa. So the human society is coming to that position. Like animal, they will eat their own sons and daughters. So therefore this practice, unnecessarily killing animal, is one of the pillar of sinful life.
Prabhupāda: So I invited them, "Please come with me. Take some prasādam." So they used to take that. In this way, gradually, they developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and after some time they proposed, "Swamijī, make me your disciple," initiation. So I said that "You have to follow the rules and regulations." They agreed, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. If you are prepared, then I accept you." They are prepared. They given up. I accept them. That's all. Yes.
Guest (8): Swamijī, something you said was the connection between the necessity for obedience to the state and necessity for their obedience to God. To take an example that occurs to many young man in this country, and I suppose in America, the question of military service arises where the state demands their absolute obedience, and many young people feels this clashes with their obedience to God.
The sun cannot go beyond that orbit. Just like we go to the sea. The order is, "My dear Pacific Ocean, you may be very great, but you cannot come beyond this." We are walking daily on the beach. Just four feet away, the water is there, but it cannot touch because the order is, "No, you cannot come. Up to this, that's all."
So everyone is ... Just like you have seen the horse is controlled by the driver, similarly, all of us are being controlled. So we should remain controlled. That is life. We should not declare that "No. I don't want to be controlled." Then you'll fall down immediately. If you remain in your position, being controlled, being predominated... Don't try to be predominator. Oh, then immediately fall down, because you are not predominator. It is a false claim that "I want to predominate. I am God. I am predominator. I am this. I am that." These are all rascaldom. Simply you remain yourself predominated. Agree to be controlled by Kṛṣṇa, and your life is successful.
That is not possible. So we are happy by false happiness. This is called māyā. This is culture, this Indian culture. They agree, there is a māyā. This is Eastern culture. Māyā. Māyā means we are falsely happy. We are thinking that "Now I am well situated." But I am not thinking any moment, next moment, I may be kicked out of the situation and everything finished. Why I am being kicked out? I want to stay here permanently. Nobody wants to die. Why he dies? Where is the solution? This is lack of knowledge. But there is solution. There is solution. That is Eastern culture. The Eastern culture knows how to make the solution. Therefore, you'll find so many parties, the karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, the bhaktas, they are all trying to make solution of these four problems, birth, death, old age and disease. That is Eastern gift. So now it is very happy moment that Indo-American Society.
Guest (1): Now, the problem is, eventually, of course, if we agree as you said, that everything belongs to God... And this idea is also, as you pointed out, in the, in the Bhagavad-gītā, but also in the Bible, they say, "The earth is the Lord's." And in the Koran also it is said that Al addha lila, which means the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): The idea has been there for thousands of years, but the question is, until this idea is accepted and put into practice the way you said, what is to be done in the interim period? Because lot of people are dying in misery and...
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that...
Guest (1):. You see. What is the solution?
Father Greene: ...there is more to life than what we see and touch and hear, that there is a need for salvation, redemption, in one form or another. And that both these ideas, that we do not live on bread alone and that we need salvation, lead us to agree that there is something beyond this life which we can call at least in general, to use a technical word, the transcendence. I think within this context we can talk and discuss and agree at least to some extent. I would now like to ask one of the Australian members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to introduce their leader to us in a more personal manner.
Madhudviṣa: Umāpati. Umāpati.
Umāpati: We would like to introduce His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is the ācārya of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and who has mercifully come and delivered us with the blazing torchlight of transcendental knowledge to deliver us from this disease of material existence. I think he is going to lecture from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Thank you very much. (applause)
Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Father Greene and all other Fathers and Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for your kindly participating in this movement. So I will try to explain some of the verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is considered to be the essence of Vedic literature. Vedic literature means the four Vedas:
So here it is enunciated that "That is first-class religious system which teaches the followers how to become again servant of God." That is first-class religion. So how to become servant of... If one agrees... The Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the last instruction is... Many types of instructions are there: karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, bhakti-yoga. But Kṛṣṇa is ultimately instructing Arjuna that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Your only business is to surrender unto Me, because you are My eternal servant. You rebelled to serve Me. You wanted to live independently in this material world, to become the master, artificially trying to become master. You give up this propensity. You surrender unto Me. Then you will be happy." And Kṛṣṇa assures that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "And when you have surrendered, I will excuse you from all reaction of sinful life." Why He has said, "sinful life"?
Madhudviṣa: So if there are any questions, you can raise your hand, and we will have questions now, if you like. No questions? This means that everyone agrees. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Full agreement. That's nice.
Guest (1): Your devotees say that you aim to get beyond the stage of material existence. I don't quite pick up what your process was for doing this, and could you tell me what the end result is once you do get beyond this.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
This thing we have to understand, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He is accepted. Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa about Himself, and he says... He agreed, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam (BG 10.12). So He is accepted by the direct disciple, Arjuna; He is accepted by Vyāsadeva; He is accepted by Nārada Muni; and recently, within two thousand years, He is accepted by all the ācāryas of India-Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī; and lately, five hundred years ago, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So there is no doubt about Kṛṣṇa's becoming the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is confirmed, ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsāṁ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "The original Personality of Godhead-Kṛṣṇa." Similarly, in the Upaniṣad, in the Vedas, and Brahma-saṁhitā, if you take evidence from the śāstras, everywhere you will find, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.
"Here is, within the womb of this woman, a great devotee." So they circumambulated and offered respect to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu and they went away. So Nārada Muni took the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu to his āśrama: "My dear girl, my dear daughter, you please come with me, remain with me till your husband comes back." So she agreed, and woman's natural propensity is to serve, so she was very nicely serving Nārada Muni, and Nārada Muni became very much pleased and he instructed about transcendental knowledge. Although to the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, but still the Hiraṇyakaśipu's son Prahlāda Mahārāja was within the womb, he also heard the instruction and he learnt everything. Later on he will explain that "My mother, on account of being woman, she has forgotten the instruction of Nārada, but I heard it even from within the womb; I remember it."
So in this material world they do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is very much expert to see his interest. Two businessmen, they are agreeing, but everyone is trying to see his personal interest first. This is called svārtha-gatim. That is natural. But Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Unfortunately, these materialistic persons, they do not know what is his real interest. The real interest is Viṣṇu, how to serve Viṣṇu.
That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the beginning. Sanātana Gosvāmī, a great minister of Nawab Hussein Shah's government, he retired from his ministerial activities and became a servant of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The six Goswamis of Vṛndāvana:
Prabhupāda: Yes. I can speak in three languages, English, Bengali and Hindi. But I cannot speak in Oriya. Now our Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja, he has agreed to translate into Oriya from English. So as you desire, I can speak either in English, Hindi or Bengali.
Indian man: English.
Prabhupāda: I shall speak in English. If I speak in English, then these foreigners, they will also understand, and it can be translated into Oriya. So? I shall speak in English? That's all?
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: Just like the body is acting, but the soul is independent. It's not really affected by the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. We agree.
Śyāmasundara: So they are like two clocks going at the same synchronization, but not together. They are separate.
Prabhupāda: But why two clocks? What is the relationship between the body and the soul? You cannot analyze separately. The body and the soul, they are practically combined. That example is not complete. They are two individual clocks. They are not combined. So therefore there is fallacy of analogy. If there is no common point, you cannot have analogy.
Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad-gītā says that it is the place for miseries only. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place simply for suffering, and that also we cannot stay for a long time. Even if you agree to stay in this uncomfortable situation of life, still you will not be allowed; you have to change this place, change this body, that may go higher or lower. Therefore this life, the material life, is on the whole miserable. There is no question of any happiness.
Śyāmasundara: He says that because God has freedom of will, God decided it would be best to give man such freedom of will.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We agree to that. If everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and acts according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then this hell, hellish world, becomes the city of God.
Hayagrīva: He says we must... "Therefore we must not doubt that God has so ordained everything that spirits not only shall live forever, because this is unavoidable, but that they shall also preserve forever their moral quality so that His city may never lose a person."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Vaikuṇṭha conception, yaj jñātvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam, "That is My specific place, where going nobody returns back to this miserable material world." These ideas are taken from Vedic literature, that's all. They are not new. It is known already to the Vedic students. Everyone has taken from Vedas, and they have presented their own way.
Śyāmasundara: But still he says it's up to the individual whether to accept or reject it. This is where you were talking about the left side of the road and the right side of the road, that even though the law is there as agreed upon by society, still it's up to me whether I want to follow it or not. It's matter of my personal opinion.
Prabhupāda: If you don't follow, then you'll be punished. That will be the effect. You'll be punished. Therefore, the conclusion is that your independent thinking is not absolute; it is also relative.
Śyāmasundara: He says that logic or reason don't determine morality, but sentiment determines morality—how I feel, that's how I should act.
Prabhupāda: He agrees to surrender to the supreme-state—so if the supreme state sanctions, it is morality. Is it not that?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Public opinion.
Prabhupāda: But anyway, it goes to somebody, public opinion, but this public opinion is not final. Therefore above the public opinion there is the supreme will of Kṛṣṇa. That should be the final, to sanction morality or immorality.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the moral sentiments which are approved by society enhance the social good, whereas immoral attitudes are egoistic and antisocial. So that a society will always approve of a certain set of moral values, and then the individual living in the society must either accept or reject them. And if he rejects them, then he must act through politics, through the social body, to try to change their attitude, their opinion.
Hayagrīva: Well, he believes that religion is necessary. He says religion, however corrupted, is still better than no religion at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we also agree. But religion without philosophy, logic, it is sentiment. That will not help us. So just like religion given by Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me." So if you think of God always, so that is good for us, we become purified. So this is religion. We have to meditate upon God, think about God. Therefore temple worship, Deity worship is necessary so that we can constantly think of God. But if we do not know what is God, what is the form of God, how we can offer Him worship, how we can think of Him, then it is pseudoreligion. His type of religion will not help the follower. One must be definitely in understanding what is God and what does He speak and how to abide by His order. That is real religion.
Hayagrīva: His conception of religion is utilitarian and social.
Prabhupāda: No. So God can do it. Just like God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e.. (BG 18.66).. Because God says, it has to be accepted. But if some individual soul said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām, who will do that? Nobody will do it. That's why we are preaching that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We do not say that "You surrender to me." Who will hear me? "Who are you? Why shall I surrender to you?" But if one understands that God wants this surrender, then he will agree.
Hayagrīva: According to the Christian religion, at the end of the world there is a resurrection of the body, that is the gross material body. Kant does not think very much about this. He writes, "For who is so fond of his body that he would wish to drag it about with him through all eternity if he could get on without it?"
Prabhupāda: That is very nice idea. We agree to that. Therefore we have to see what is the duty of the state. It is accepted that the state is the representative of God. Therefore the state's first business is to make citizens God-conscious. That is the state's first business. Any state who is neglecting this duty, he immediately becomes unqualified to hold the state office, either he may be president or the king. Because if it is admitted, the king... We say that the king's name is naradeva, God in human form, and king is offered that respect. There are... King is respected, why? Because he is to be considered God's representative. So therefore, as God's representative... Just like we are working as God's representative. We present ourselves as God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, then what is our duty? What is our business? What we are doing? We are trying to lead others to God consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: He also agrees that the monarchy, constitutional monarchy is recommended to head the state.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And that he fulfills the universal will, he's simply the executor of the world's spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. That is the system, Vedic system. A king must educate.
Śyāmasundara: But because he was so vague, this left room for someone like Hitler to come in and use this philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we agree. Viruddha (Sanskrit), viruddha, contradictory thing can be adjusted in Kṛṣṇa. Because what is viruddha, opposite, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa, and what is substance, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. We are thinking viruddha. Just like this same example, cooler and heater. They are opposite but they are coming from electricity. Therefore in electricity power, both can be adjusted(?). You can say, "Electricity can be cooler, electricity can be heater." That is called viruddha (Sanskrit). Contradictory things adjusted in Kṛṣṇa. Inconceivable, therefore we say inconceivable. Simultaneously one and different. That is our philosophy. Simultaneously we are all equal, one with God, and different. In our..., this material world, it is impossible to think like that, therefore it is called inconceivable.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is limited. It is limited. It is very hard to find about five thousand or six thousand years back.
Karandhara: They don't even agree amongst each other about what the age of things are.
Śyāmasundara: Just like if you go down a hundred feet below the soil, that soil has been down there a long time. But there is no evidences of men, actually civilized creatures.
Prabhupāda: Why he is trying to find out men's bones there?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. I agree with that. It doesn't explain there is an evolution...
Prabhupāda: Evolution we accept. There is no quarrel about that point. But we say there are 8,400,000 species of life, evolution is coming through that. But you cannot give us any list that so many... We give real evolution, that there are 8,400,000 species of life, and the living entity coming through that. (break) ...evolution is taking from here to here, and how many there are? You cannot say. You simply say "missing," "something missing," "something is added," all vague.
Śyāmasundara: That admitted, but...
Karandhara: What they mean by doctrine is that they can't agree on it and say it's fact. That there's so many short-comings that they will call it a doctrine but they won't call it fact. That's practically the whole story in scientific research: the real scientists, they never call anything a solid fact; it's always a theory or a doctrine because they never find a perfect enough conclusion which takes into account everything and perfectly reconciles...
Prabhupāda: What is that uncertainty? What do you call that?
Śyāmasundara: It's called Theory of Uncertainty. Heisenberg's Theory of Uncertainty.
Prabhupāda: That is also theory.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That has to do with atomic particles.
Śyāmasundara: But at least they all agree that there is several million years old, many millions of years old, at least.
Karandhara: No. Not necessarily.
Śyāmasundara: The Pleistocene two hundred million years...
Karandhara: Just an assembly of fools. You can get all the fools to agree on the same thing. It doesn't make anyone...
Śyāmasundara: Well I still want to find out how they...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa nāma koro bhai ar sab niche, parai gab pap nahi yoni ache piche (?). Our real problem is birth, death. All these scientist, they could not solve any of these problems, neither they could answer. Maybe Darwin's cam(?) has died. They could not stop death. Kata choto dayana na mari meri jao (?).
Śyāmasundara: It says, "It can be shown that a closed Einsteinian universe can expand only to a certain limit, beyond which the expansion will go over into contraction." So they also agree that the universe expands and contracts.
Prabhupāda: Expand means it was not in its present state. Original state was in seed.
Śyāmasundara: That seed they say was a hot gas.
Prabhupāda: So the seed is so powerful that it has become a universe. So who made that seed, wonderful seed? And wherefrom it came? What is the tree? What is the fruit? Wherefrom seed comes? So many questions are there.
Prabhupāda: The Western philosophers and historians, in order to support Darwin's theory of anthropology, has never agreed to accept that the Vedic literatures written long, long years ago, but these less intelligent philosophers and theologists, their theory has been also dismantled by the discovery of this Ajanta Cave. From that cave it was very, very intelligent; as they are excavating other part, simply studying the bones. But there is other side also, this is also excavation; and it can be proved that very intelligent persons were there.
Śyāmasundara: I read about a column near Delhi that they found, made of some metal, that has been there for many, many thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: Then he agrees that from the lowest stage he has come to the higher?
Śyāmasundara: But you said instinct and intuition were the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: His description is that instinct is lower because it's almost blind.
Prabhupāda: Belonging to the same category, that's all. One is little superior than the other.
Atreya Ṛṣi: What is realization, Prabhupāda? Realization belongs to the same category?
Prabhupāda: No. Realization means when you come to the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree to surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oneness means that I agree with God. God says that "You surrender," I say, "Yes, I surrender." God says to Arjuna, "You fight," he fights. That is oneness. That we have no disagreement, in any point, with God, that is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When I say anything, there is no disagreement of any of the disciples. It is being done, taking God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, so similarly with God also. But what I am doing? I am simply taking the order from God, and I am disseminating the same knowledge. I have accepted surrender unto Kṛṣṇa as my life. I am teaching others, "You also surrender." This is called disciplic succession. There is no disagreement with God. It is not that I am... (break) Yes. That means one who is God conscious, he is a mystic.
Prabhupāda: "Now here is water." So our, we are, who are hankering after so great happiness that these rascals' sense gratification happiness is not giving us. It is just like a drop in the desert. Therefore we are changing, changing simply. The same thing, punaḥ punaś carvita-car... The same thing, we do not know what is real happiness so simply changing the posture. Now woman should be mini-skirted. Why they should be fully dressed? (laughter) Now they're also trying. Ultimately they're coming to the position of (indistinct) (laughter). Just see. Here, here in the (indistinct). They are attracting tourists by showing the vagina(?). That's all. This is happiness. They have no other information. "Come on, here is vagina, open. This is their standard of happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45), most abominable thing they have taken as happiness. So what do they know about happiness? These so-called philosophers, they do not know what is happiness. And why they are philosophizing about happiness? Happiness is also our aim, but that happiness is different from this happiness. Just like a hog is enjoying happiness eating stool. No man will be happy by eating stool neither he will agree to enjoy such happiness. It is the standard of happiness according to the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, immediate cause, we take, immediate cause. Immediate cause also we accept. So what is the conclusion? There is cause, immediate and remote. That we agree. But what is his proposition?
Śyāmasundara: His proposition is that we can study any instance of a phenomenon and find out the cause by applying these five methods: the method of agreement, then the second one is the method of difference. They're rather complicated.
Prabhupāda: That means five causes.
Śyāmasundara: No. Five methods of studying something to find out the cause. Five tests to find out the circumstances behind the phenomenon, the instance of the phenomenon, to find out the cause.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like I was not desiring to take my medicine. When I was a child it was very difficult to give me medicine. Three men required. (laughter) Yes. One will capture me, another (laughing) will take my legs, and then my mother will by force, I will do like this. (gestures locking of teeth, trying to force spoon into mouth, much laughter all around) This was my position. I won't agree to take any medicine. I was so obstinate.
Śyāmasundara: So that which is really desirable...
Prabhupāda: But because it is desirable, the force was applied.
Śyāmasundara: So we cannot judge what is desirable. Only...
Prabhupāda: John Stuart, he may be able, but it is not possible for ordinary man to know what is duty. The child plays, he does not know that his duty is to study. So parents teach him that "This is your duty. You must go to school. You must learn." So duty is not created by the rascals and fools. Duty is created by higher authority.
Śyāmasundara: He would agree with that also, but here he says that the higher authorities who determine what is duty, that their rationale or their guiding principles should be what is the greatest good for the greatest number, and that should be our duty.
Śyāmasundara: The orders of the authority as my duty, then my conscience keeps me following that order. My conscience.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you agree.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Authority means we agree to follow.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So philosophy without practical application is called mental speculation. It has no value. We agree to that. Philosophy must be practically applied in life. That is real philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there is a question, "What difference would it make, practically, to anyone, if this notion rather than that notion were true?" He says that the criterion for deciding that question is the practicality of something. If there are two questions, two notions, then the standard of judgment should be which notion is applicable in practice.
Prabhupāda: Which notion should be...?
Hayagrīva: Four, he sees, "a shifting of the emotional center toward loving and harmonious affection, toward yes and away from no, where the clangs of the non-ego are concerned." That is to say, agreeing with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is asking always that "You agree to obey My orders," and as soon as we accept this principle, we immediately becomes liberated: "Yes, from this point I shall now fully agree to the the orders of Kṛṣṇa, or God." That is liberation. The liberation is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: to give up a mode of life other than devotional life. Muktiḥ hitvā anyathā rūpam. Our life is meant for rendering devotional service to the Lord. As soon as we give up this principle of life, devotional service to the Lord, that is our anyathā rūpam, means our living condition otherwise, except devotional service. That living condition otherwise than the devotional service is called conditioned life. And as soon as we come to this platform of devotional service, that is mukti, liberated life. Muktiḥ hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. To remain in one's own constitutional position is called mukti, or liberation. (break)
Revatīnandana: It usually means... A group with a common interest is usually called a cult. Some group with some common, agreed-upon interest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is I was explaining this, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for everyone. It is meant for a certain group. Therefore you can take it as a cult, although it is meant for everyone. But generally we are accepted by the high-class intelligent men. Therefore we can call it cult.
Śyāmasundara: Same word, "cultivation" or "culture"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So Kṛṣṇa gives that value. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave the value in Bhagavad-gītā, and Arjuna in the beginning denied to fight, but he agreed to fight. He agreed to fight.
Śyāmasundara: Because he was satisfied by his faith in Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is required.
Śyāmasundara: He says that moral laws are comparable to physical laws. In other words, they are guidelines to elicit certain responses under given conditions. Just like if I throw a ball up, I know it is going to come down. So a moral law will guide me in the same way. If I act in a certain way, there will automatically be a certain result, a response.
Prabhupāda: So if that is his philosophy, then why not take the direction from God, Bhagavad-gītā? Why you are making experiments from this platform to that platform? Why you are wasting time in that way? If he agrees that God is eternal, existing, perfect, then why don't you take direct from God, or God's representative? Why you are making experiment?
Śyāmasundara: He also recommends that. He says in this case he's simply formalized the difference between God and man, that God does not have to think; He creates. He does not think; He creates.
Śyāmasundara: They transcend the lower levels of consciousness, and for a few moments they become will-less or desireless.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we admit. We agree also. So we do not want to keep them for a few moments, but we want to keep them continually in that consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: This aesthetic salvation...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Where is Rūpānuga? Inform them that we will come.
Śyāmasundara: This aesthetic salvation is only possible momentarily. Contemplation of poetry and art and music, these are...
Śyāmasundara: Once before we were discussing a philosopher named Leibnitz. Leibnitz said that this is the best of all possible worlds, and you agreed, you said, "Yes, this is the best of all possible worlds because it's God's arrangement." But Schopenhauer says that this is the worst of all possible worlds.
Prabhupāda: But best of all? Why shall I say best of all worlds?
Śyāmasundara: In the sense that because Kṛṣṇa created it or God created it, that it was the best arrangement.
Prabhupāda: Why this? Any world, what Kṛṣṇa creates, that is all right. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ (Iso Invocation). Everything is perfect. The world is perfect. So there is no doubt. But the nature of the world being material, there are three qualities. They are also working perfectly. As you work, so you get the result, reaction.
Hayagrīva: The... He speaks of the sannyāsī, who lives without a dwelling and entirely without property, who is advised not to lay down often under the same tree least he should acquire a preference or inclination for it above other trees. The Christian mystic and the teacher of the Vedānta philosophy agree in this respect also, that they both regard all outward works and religious exercises as superfluous for him who has attained to perfection. Isn't this the viewpoint of the Māyāvādī, and doesn't Kṛṣṇa recommend the lighting of the sacrificial fire even after one has attained perfection?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā na tyājam. Because if he gives up this ritualistic ceremony, then there is chance of falling down. So even though he is liberated, to keep his position secure he should continue these three things: sacrifice, charity, and austerity.
Prabhupāda: Basic relationship is that I want to enjoy this world. Does he agree to this point or not? I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity. That is my concern. Everyone is struggling for that.
Śyāmasundara: He simply says that between (indistinct), or being there, and the things of the world there is a relationship of care or concern, that's all. He doesn't say whether it's...
Prabhupāda: That is a concern, that I want to enjoy this world; others may not interrupt. That is my concern. I am living in this world, I am living in this apartment, I am asking my assistant, "Let not others come here, disturb me." So that is my concern. Just like in your country, they keep dogs: "Beware of dog," "Please do not come here." Eh? So this is my concern. I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity and others may not disturb me.
Prabhupāda: Truth can be perceived.
Devānanda: We can show; therefore our philosophy is good. He would agree, this philosophy is good because we cannot only state with authority what is the truth, we can reasonably establish it and we can demonstrate it also.
Prabhupāda: And perceive also.
Devānanda: Yes. We can demonstrate it.
Devotee: I have a question, that if he says that that philosophy which is good, which can be verified by observation or fact, and he comes to the conclusion that his philosophy is nonsense, I'd like to find out how he arrives at this kind of a conclusion.
Prabhupāda: So we agree to this point. Just like soul, at the present moment you have got a certain type of body, human body, but the soul has potentiality to have a spiritual body or a dog's body. Both potentialities are there. So the essential is the soul, and the reality... It is not reality; temporary form in the material body. But the potentiality as the soul has its own spiritual body. When it is uncontaminated by the material contamination, he remains only reality without any so-called actuality or temporary form.
Hayagrīva: He agrees with Marx in his belief that religion is a form of narcotic. He says, "The believer...," that is in God...
Prabhupāda: Well first of all, these men do not know what is religion. That is the defeat. That is their defect, either Marx or Freud of so many so-called philosophers, they do not know what is religion. They have to learn what is religion. Without knowing what is religion, why they are talking of religion and God? They have no knowledge about.
Hayagrīva: He says, "The believer will not let his faith be taken from him, neither by argument nor by prohibitions, and even if it did succeed with some, it would be a cruel thing to do."
Prabhupāda: No. Anything, artificial teaching, that is cruelty. So that is being done by Mr. Freud also. Artificially he is stressing on sex and death and so on, so on, but that is not life. Real life is that to understand the simple truth. Just like..., who was protesting against father conception? That Mr. John, so and so?
Prabhupāda: No. Try to understand. Sex desire is there in everyone. So once sex desire is (indistinct) up, male sex desire and female sex desire. The sex desire is there in both male and female, but some from impartial view, it appears that the male is the enjoyer and the female is the enjoyed. So both of them are (indistinct). So the female, if she agrees to be predominated, enjoyed, then naturally she also becomes enjoyer. So living entities are described as prakṛti, female. So when the living entities agree to help Kṛṣṇa's sex desire, then they become happy.
Devotee (2): But it's not by Kṛṣṇa's sex desire. What is the meaning of the words "Kṛṣṇa's sex desire"? Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction?
Prabhupāda: That is a (indistinct) in the terminology. Just like we say that we are changing bodies, they say developing bodies. So anyway, either you say developing or changing, the original body is not there. That you have to accept. The child's body, either you say it has developed into youth's body, and either you say that is (indistinct) body. I say the child's body is gone; it is another body. In both cases, the child's body is no longer existing. That you have to agree—either you call developed or it has gone.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I agree with him. That is the degradation of human civilization. But the philosophy of the Communist, that everyone has equal right or everyone must take share of the state equally, that is little, basic principle of real communism. According to our understanding, God is the father, material nature is the mother, and we, all living entities, are sons of the father and mother. So as sons everyone has right to live at the cost of father's property. The whole universe is the property of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all living entities, they are being supported by the father. But one should be satisfied with the supplies allotted to him. That is, Īśopaniṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). There is no need of encroaching on others' property. We should not become envious of the capitalist or rich man, because everyone is given his allotment by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I should be satisfied with my allotment. I should not encroach upon others' allotment.
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot avoid the choice. At the present age there is democratic government. When we agree to fight with another, that means you have got your assent. Why should you not fight?
Śyāmasundara: I haven't made this very clear, but because we have freedom, we become susceptible to bad faith. Bad faith means that we avoid making any decisions at all, good or bad. We simply drift. He calls it drift. We go day to day without entering and becoming involved with any responsible decision-making.
Prabhupāda: That drift means that is decision. Yes. That is decision. When you drift, that is decision.
Prabhupāda: So he agrees also at the same time, responsibility.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that means he must have the power to make decisions, right and wrong. That is responsible.
Śyāmasundara: The main thing, though, is that he must abide by his decision. Whatever he chooses, that he must live it.
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If I decide to steal, it is better to avoid it. Not that because I have to decided to steal, I must do it just like a hero and then go to prison.
Śyāmasundara: For Sartre there is no absolute right and wrong. Some of his main heroes are great thieves and debauchers, like there's one... What is his name?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We agree with that. We are trying to do that by introducing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make the world Vaikuṇṭha. That is our philosophy. Anyone can come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become happy. But that is not a blind decision. We take decision from higher authority; therefore it is perfect. We are taking decision from the ācārya, Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: There is also a pessimistic side to his philosophy in that he says that man is a useless passion, mainly striving in the universe without purpose.
Śyāmasundara: His belief for..., the criterion for truth is called the correspondence theory, that a belief is true if it agrees with the facts with which it is supposed to correspond.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this example, we see the snow as white, but it is..., does not correspond with the fact. Therefore it is not knowledge.
Dr. Rao: There is another example. They see water can (indistinct) in several (indistinct). One is the seawater, one is the (indistinct rest of comment)
Śyāmasundara: He also says that besides the correspondence, that fact must correspond with..., that a belief must correspond with the fact if it is to be true. Also he says...
Śyāmasundara: This will provide the stimulus which will..., so the people will react favorably, to behave favorably, simply by performing these activities?
Prabhupāda: The experience is... We have got experience that this material world is full of misery. Everyone will (agree). Otherwise why he is trying to adjust? Now we have got information from Bhagavad-gītā,
- mām upetya tu kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ
- (BG 8.15)
Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who comes to Me, back to home, back to Godhead, he does not come again to this material world which is full of misery." Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti... (BG 8.15).
Śyāmasundara: But then what is the stimulus? Why will they...?
Prabhupāda: There is a story that one king, he had ministers, a prime minister, so other salaried workers complained, "Sir, we are actually working. This minister is giving nothing, you are giving him so much salary. We are so (indistinct). So, "Oh, all right." So he called the minister, and brought one elephant. (indistinct), "Please immediately take this elephant and let me know what is the weight. Take this elephant. Weigh him." So they went to... All market, they went to find out a scale, how to weigh this. Where is the scale for weighing an elephant? So they could not do anything. They came back. "What happened?" "Sir, we could not get such a scale." "Oh, you could not weigh? All right. Minister, will you kindly weigh this elephant?" "Yes, sir." "All right, take it." So within six minutes he said, "It is twenty mounds," and like that. You see? So they were standing. They were surprised: "How is that? Within some minutes he came back and he said the exact weight." So king asked that "How did you weigh? Did you get some very big scale?" "No sir. It is not possible to weigh the elephant in the scale. Very difficult." "Then how did you weigh?" "Yes, I took it in a boat. I got it on the boat. I saw the water mark, and I marked it, and then, after getting down the elephant, I put weight on it. So when it came to that water mark, I understood." So the king said, "Now you see the difference?" They agreed, "Yes."
Śyāmasundara: He stresses two aspects (in the) theory of dialectical materialism. The one on which he placed the most emphasis is the aspect of the pragmatic element of philosophy, that philosophy must have practical effect. And the other aspect is the contradiction between capitalism and communism, and this contradiction involves conflicts and eventual revolution. He agrees with Hegel that without conflict, there can be no progress. Do we accept this? Without conflict, there is no progress?
Prabhupāda: Our Kurukṣetra battle is a conflict between Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. So after the conflict, the Pāṇḍavas became the kings. So that is admitted; without conflict, you cannot make progress.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this morning I was explaining that your statement should be according to the standard process, vidhi-mārga. So sādhu-śāstra-guru, three authorities: saintly persons, scripture, and spiritual master. So all of them should be, should agree. There is a con... Just like two litigants, they go to the court and the judges give judgement. Similarly, whenever there is conflict, to come to a conclusion, we must refer to sādhu, śāstra, and guru. Then we get the right judgement.
Śyāmasundara: So his idea of conflict is on the social level, between classes of men. It also carries over into historical levels...
Śyāmasundara: ...and that this is real religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree. You surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.
Prabhupāda: That is... Yes. Oneness means I agree with God. God says your surrender. I say, "Yes. I surrender." God says Arjuna "You fight," he fights. That is oneness, that we have no disagreement in any point with God. That is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as soon as I say anything, there is no disagreement of any other disciple. If there is disagreement, then it is ended. Disobedient immediately. As it is going, it is being done, taking God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, so similarly with God also. And what, what I am doing? I am simply taking the order from God and I am disseminating the same knowledge. I have accepted that surrender to Kṛṣṇa is my life. I am teaching others, "You also surrender." This is called disciplic succession. There is no disagreement with God. It is not that I am posing myself, "I am God."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That cooperation begins when God says that "You surrender unto Me," and if he agrees, that cooperation begins.
Śyāmasundara: In other words, it won't happen automatically.
Prabhupāda: Unless you surrender, where is the cooperation? Where is the cooperation? Just like all my disciples, because they have surrendered, so there is cooperation. Therefore this movement is increasing. Otherwise, alone what can we do? Because you are cooperating with me, therefore I am advancing this movement. If you noncooperate with me, I am old man. What can I do? So similarly, Lord Caitanya comes, Kṛṣṇa, to invite cooperation. He says that "Please cooperate with me. Let me spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Hayagrīva: Oh, he would agree that God is everything.
Prabhupāda: That God is..., how he can reject? If God is everything, then how can he reject?
Hayagrīva: But he would not say that God is more than the creation.
Prabhupāda: So how everything He can create? You cannot create the Pacific Ocean, but Pacific Ocean is God. So you are limited, why you are trying to create God? God is already there. Everything is God. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. How he can reject God? Because the table is God, table is God and table is staying on God... The same example: the earthen pot is also earth and it is kept on earth. So earth both of them are. The earthen pot, a tumbler, and waterpot made of earth, everything is made of earth. This table is made of earth and it is staying on earth. So what you can reject?
Prabhupāda: It is an art, that our aim of life by these sensually affected senses... At the present moment we are sensually affected. I want to eat something which is very palatable, I eat it. I do not care whether this palatable eating will mislead me or lead me to the proper way. Therefore we are making this propaganda. So your eating process is not stopped. You eat, but don't eat meat, you eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. So if we agree to this process, then gradually we become purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our aim, objective, is attained. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't stop eating. No sensual activities are stopped. The eyes, in the material way, the eyes want to see very beautiful objective. We say, "Yes, you see the beautiful Kṛṣṇa. You taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam." Everything is there; simply we purify. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If this process is accepted, then when he sees real beauty, real food, real, then he becomes satisfied. That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: How he explains the body of a pig eating stool?
Hayagrīva: I've been putting this off. He wouldn't agree that man could be reincarnated as an animal.
Prabhupāda: Why, why he will not agree? If a body is a gift by God, then body can be a punishment also by God.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is reasonable. When he is punished, he gets the body of a pig. When he is rewarded, he gets the body of King Indra. So that is punishment and reward.
Prabhupāda: So everything opportunity is given by God because He is supreme controller. We desire: Man proposes, God disposes. This is God's position. But so long he will go on proposing this and that, he will never be happy. When he agrees to the plan of God, then he will be happy.
Hayagrīva: Hobbes says that warfare is perpetual and that the struggle for existence goes on and on, and therefore the Leviathan is necessary. This... He believes in the divine right of kings, that the Leviathan is like God's representative, God's lieutenant, and he has his sovereignty under God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If...
Hayagrīva: Like a Vedic monarch or a...
Hayagrīva: Huxley did appear to have..., to adhere to the doctrine of transmigration. He says, "The doctrine of transmigration constructs a plausible indication of the ways of the cosmos to man. Every sentient being is reaping as it has sown, if not in this life then in one or other of the infinite series of antecedent existences of which it is the latest turn." In Evolution and Ethics he writes about brahman and ātmān and liberation. He says, "The earlier forms of Indian philosophy agreed with those prevalent in our times, and supposing the existence of a permanent reality or substance beneath the shifting series of phenomena, whether of matter or of mind, the substance of the cosmos was brahman, that of individual man ātmān, and the latter, that is ātmān, was separated from brahman only by its..."
Prabhupāda: That is also not. He is not separated. He is, brahman and ātmān, they are existing, co-existing, and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the chapter "Kṣetra and Kṣetrajña." The body is the field, and the ātmā, individual soul, is the owner of the field or the worker in the field. So it is also said there is another owner, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ vidhi. As the individual is working in the body, similarly, there is another soul working in the body.
Hayagrīva: To reconcile all mankind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: No one would agree with. No one is in total agreement.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: But he felt that positivism...
Prabhupāda: Positivism, that we can understand, that every man eats. So they have to eat. That is positive. Every man sleeps; he must sleep. But the thinking, feeling, willing, even in eating, sleeping also, everyone has got his own taste, own method. So how these things will be adjusted? If you force upon them that "You must eat these things," that will create dissatisfaction.
| Page Title: | Agree (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 30 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=151, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 151 |