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African (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Haṁsadūta: Whatever they print for me, or whatever Bali prints for me, I pay him and I pay 100% mark-up so that there can be some money.

Prabhupāda: So in this way organize and distribute literature, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana yajña. Then our mission will be successful. Accha, here, they are coming, so we shall make a committee, London building fund committee. In that committee, Mr. Arnold and his wife... (break) ...nicely and organize responsibly. So that can be done provided they have got their own men. Why he's not training the Africans? He should train.

Parivrājakācārya: He hasn't got very many Africans. I think only about two.

Prabhupāda: Then suspend that installation.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no question of preference. Kṛṣṇa's creation, it is there. You are creating (indistinct) caste, jana-saṅgaś caste. Caste is already given, in a different name. How you can make casteless? That is not possible. The whole world—"I am American," "I am Indian"—this is caste, bigger caste. Yasyātma-buddhi-kuṇa. So long you will be under the concept of this body, there must be caste division. So we have to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be no caste. Just like these boys, Americans, Europeans, Africans, Canadians, they have no caste, they have no nationality. They are simply for Kṛṣṇa. That is casteless.

Reporter: So are they brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious means brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.

Reporter: Not by birth?

Prabhupāda: Not by birth. They are brāhmaṇas by quality. They have got sacred thread. That is also there in the śāstra. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syat. Varṇa has been given. Varṇa. Varṇa, we want to compare symptoms. The brāhmaṇas are this: satya, samaḥ, damaḥ, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). This is the symptom of brāhmaṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you find these symptoms anywhere, he is a brāhmaṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is the process. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they will be God-realized. Just like these boys. Four years ago they did not know what is meant by Kṛṣṇa. So now they are so perfect. Of course, we cannot be perfect anyway, but they are far, far better than any Kṛṣṇa-bhakta in the world. Even Indians, they say, "Oh, they are better than us." And what is the process? Simply they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they are becoming God-realized. Even last night we had meeting with the Christian fathers. They very much appreciated. And in Boston one Christian priest issued literature, that "These boys, they are our boys. They are so mad after God, but we could not do." So this is... Why they have become so? Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So anyone chants will get this status. This is practical. Not only... In anywhere. We have got many Chinese, many Japanese, Africans, and Canadians and Europeans, and Australia also, we have got many Australian boys. So wherever we are chanting, it is being effective. The real purpose is to realize God. So that is being done. So we have to accept the method recommended for a particular age and time. Then we become successful. (break) ...likes you? Vipada(?). No.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

John Nordheimer: I hope so.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we invite everyone to come here to listen to our philosophy, take prasādam and sing and dance with us. This program is very nice. We do not make distinctions in human society. We do not say that we shall serve the Indians and not the Americans or the Americans and not the Africans. We are going everywhere with this movement. We take all human beings to be part and parcel of God. Not only human beings, but every living entity—animals also.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God. And He claims that all living entities, in any form... The form is superficial. The form is taken as dress. Just like you are dressed in a different way, I am dressed in a different way. But we are not talking to the dress, we are talking to the man who is putting on the dress. Similarly, this bodily distinction is material. But spiritually we are all one. There is no question of becoming Indian or Indonesian or African or Asian or this or that. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You know. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śvapāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Because paṇḍita does not see the outward dress, paṇḍita sees the inside, who is putting on the dress. Therefore, without misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, or being misled by so-called big, big leaders, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it will be very nice, beneficial to everyone.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy. So Mr. Director he has read Bhagavad-gītā?

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our business is, we should offer this banana to God. "So it is Your creation, it is Your thing. First of all You taste it, then we take it." Then you become in peace. And if you falsely think that "I have created this banana tree. I have worked so hard. Now the fruit is there. Now I am the enjoyer." Then you are mistaken. Then next statement is, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheś... (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of everything in the world." Now, beginning of this world, Bhūmi, land, this land, they're claiming this land Indonesian, this land American, this land Indian. But has the Indonesians or the Africans or the Indians created this land? Who has created this land?

Guest (2): God.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Again, the same... You are comparing with yourself. Because your person can stay in one place only. That means you are simply comparing the Personality of Godhead with your personality. That you have to forget. He, He stays everywhere. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Therefore we have to consult the authoritative Vedic literature. This answer is there, that goloka eva nivasaty, "He is living in Goloka Vṛndāvana; still, He is everywhere." You cannot think of. You are in this apartment. You are not in your office. But Kṛṣṇa, although He's in Goloka Vṛndāvana, He's everywhere, in everyone's heart. He's seeing everything. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That means you want to compare with your, this foolish, imperfect personality with God's personality. That is our defect. He's distinct from our personality, but He's a person. Yes. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He's also a person like us, He's also living entity like us. But what is the difference? He's the maintainer; we are maintained. How many persons you can maintain? A family of two children and one wife, you are embarrassed. And He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti... Innumerable living entities, He's supplying food everyone. He's supplying food the ants within the hole of your room there are thousands of ants. You are not supplying food. How they are getting food? Similarly, you go to the African jungle.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. Jaya. (pause) You are from India? (Hindi—few sentences with guest) So we are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa, the most delightful feature. So chanting and dancing before Kṛṣṇa, taking His prasādam, and practicing delightful nature, awakening the delightful consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as this is taking practical shape, all these European, American boys, Canadian, African, they are becoming delightful, and with great delight, they are chanting, dancing and taking prasādam.

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ
(Brs. 1.2.234)

We cannot understand God by our present senses. So the senses are to be purified. And that purification begins: sevonmukha, by engaging the tongue, jihvādau, in the delightful activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So practically we are getting result.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Śrutakīrti: Yes. Brahmānanda Mahārāja was saying many fruits also get to England. He said in Africa they have many nice fruits, but you can't buy them in Africa. They ship them off to England. Although they're all grown there, you can't get nice fruit in Africa.

Prabhupāda: Neither the Africans like to eat.

Śrutakīrti: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they don't. Yes. God has created different foodstuff for different living entities.

Buddhist Monk (1): But they interpret that God created them also for their consumption.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Buddhist Monk (1): They interpret that they have, the God has created the cattle also for their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He must realize that he's not this body. He is different from body. But I am encaged now in this body under certain condition. So at least this... This is called jñāna. Jñāna. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is affected with so many things. So many things. So this bhakti-yoga begins when one is purified from the bodily concept of life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now, these boys, they are coming from different nations. But they never think that one is Englishman, another is American, another is Indian, another is African. No, we don't think like that.

David Lawrence: No.

Prabhupāda: At least, we have surpassed that stage. If we have not advanced in any other way, (laughter) at least we have advanced in this respect. We don't consider on the bodily concept of life. What do you think?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our qualification. Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: All these things can be understood. Therefore we are propagating the same principle. We do not ask anyone: "First of all, you become brāhmaṇa. Then come here." No. Let him come and hear about Viṣṇu. We speak, discuss about Bhagavad-gītā. They hear. They hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have seen our books? So these books are discussed and gradually... If it is a fact, śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, if one gives only aural reception to this transcendental message, then, although God is Ajita, nobody can conquer, He becomes conquered. So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped. So what do you think, Karandhara Prabhu?

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras. And those symptoms are visible in Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone can understand, "God is all powerful." So Kṛṣṇa showed that He is all powerful. So there is no difficulty to understand. So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time. Even Christian priests, they are astonished that "These boys, our boys, they did not care for God, never came to church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God?" They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything. So far vegetable-eating is concerned, it is actually very scientific to eat vegetables. I think some German doctor proved it, that our teeth are meant for eating vegetables.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). The root, if you water the root, then sarva-bhūta hite ratāḥ, the water will go to the branches, to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. They do not know the way how to become sarva-bhūta-hite. And because... Just see the example. I am not becoming proud, but because I have got little taste for it, therefore I am preaching all over the world. I don't say I am perfect. I have got little taste of kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So I have no distinction that "This is Indian. This is American. This is African." Everyone, I am giving this hari-nāma. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, no distinction. We are trying to give protection the the cows, to animals, to the trees. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Unless one is... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If one is not devoted to Kṛṣṇa, he cannot become sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām (BG 12.5). Simply they will suffer, that's all.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.

Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.

Dr. Patel: But they have migrated to London now. They are very well... People from England, I mean, Africa, especially East Africa, Kenya and Uganda... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...their own house in London. Every Indian. (break) Englishmen, they haven't got their own house.

Dr. Patel: No, Englishmen are very much afraid of business with... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...former purchaser, they sell to the higher bidders.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: Do ghosts refer to categories of ghosts or particular famous? These names...

Prabhupāda: Yes, categories. Yes. There are so many. Just like human beings. Human beings. There are Americans, Indians and Africans and so many, so... One knows that human being, and one knows in descriptive way. So whose knowledge is perfect?

Girirāja: Descriptive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is descriptive.

Girirāja: (reading) "And similar other evil spirits will cause persons to forget..."

Prabhupāda: Evil spirit everyone believes, every country. In London there are so many ghosts. When I was in John Lennon's house, so they complained, "In this one house, every night a ghost comes." You see? So I advised them "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will go away." Then it actually so happened.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? He's... Give him dress. (break) Give him lesson how to make tilaka. He has come to your shelter. You teach him. (break) Just like a diseased person, if he is a little careless, he is not very strict in following the..., it will take some time. It is exactly like that. He, because of his material opulences, he thinks that "Oh, where is the disease? This is all right. I am happy." That is the defect. We have to reduce. That is called tapasya. Not that "Because my tongue is asking me to eat something, therefore I must eat." Not that. That is the difference between ordinary man and gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means one who has conquered over the dictation of the senses. My sense dictates to do something, but when I am able to dictate the sense, "No, you cannot do it," that is called gosvāmī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...maybe an African or Indian?

Prabhupāda: No, Indian.

Dr. Patel: African, after all. Americans must be first. (static interference) ...politically conscious Africans.

Prabhupāda: We have got about ten African devotees now in Nairobi branch. (break) ...to material sense enjoyment. Such persons cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...avoid the dictation of the senses. But when a man is able to dictate the senses, then he is gosvāmī.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (8): Within what time? Recent?

Prabhupāda: I think about two years. Yes. We have got African students also, many African students. And everywhere we are spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa. We go village to village, they accept. In African village, with big, big earrings, they also dance in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Guest (8): How do they respond in China?

Prabhupāda: Yes, China also. They also receive very nicely. They are intel... Everywhere the people are always good. They are made bad by the leaders. That's all.

Guest (9): You know, it sticks in the mind, about the leaders and the government, you said it. Is the duty of the leaders of the government to see the people are happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Vaiṣṇava kavi has sung,

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

Unless you are free from the material desires, you cannot enjoy what is the celestial or spiritual bliss in chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. If one has got material desires, he cannot enjoy.

viṣaya chāriyā, se rase mājīyā,

mukhe bala hari hari

(break) ...can see here United Nation actually. Here is Britisher, here is American, here is African, here is Indian, here is Hindu, Canadian, Hindu, Muslim, Christian-all. This is United Nation. Just let them see practically what is United Nation. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—all combined in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do they not see? The so-called unity, brotherhood, why do they not see the reality?

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: The best truth, and I think it's truth for most of us who take ourselves seriously...

Prabhupāda: Just like in our society, we have got Americans, we have got Africans, Canadians, Indians, Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. But they are no longer Mohammedan, American, Christian or African. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. And that is Brahmān realization.

O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: That can be experienced in the present.

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And practically, you are coming from different groups-Americans, Indians, Africans—but you don't think yourself as American or Indian or African.

O'Grady: But the system insists that you do.

Bhagavān: The world as it is, the society, the materialistic society, puts these bodily demands...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The materialistic society means duality.

O'Grady: But that's unavoidable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: Because of your physical existence...

Prabhupāda: Unavoidable, yes...

O'Grady: And your personal spiritualism as well.

Prabhupāda: But it can be avoided in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like the leaf of lily. It is in the water but it does not touches the water.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy. But the so-called politicians and leaders, they are saying "No, you cannot enter here," immigration. America has got enough place to produce food. But they will, although they have gone to the United Nation, UNESCO, they could not find out any solution. Although there is possibility of producing ten times of the requisites of the whole population of the world, they will not allow. They will not allow.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, thank you for your explanations.

Prabhupāda: And it is being effective. It is being effective. In our group we find Africans, Americans, Indians, Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, Chinese, everyone.

Monsignor Verrozano: And what concern the Buddhist countries where God is not so, at least, the prayers or the name of God is not so well known. I am just coming from Bangkok where we had a meeting with Buddhist monks of the (indistinct), and have you also some movement, some kind of action to spread love of God to (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Well, Buddhists, they do not believe in God.

Cardinal and Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, Buddhist philosophy is atheistic philosophy.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: ...in right position. All wonderful buildings, there is no doubt. Such huge buildings in any other parts of the world is not visible. Just the thickness of the building.

Bhagavān: They kept many slaves the Romans. They had many slaves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Slaves? This word is used in Vedic language also, slave. The Africans, they were meant for becoming slaves.

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we take a picture here please?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So the Kirātas, they were always slaves of the Āryans. The Āryan people used to keep slaves, but they were treating slaves very nicely. Later on it degraded. Otherwise, slaves were kept just like family members.

Bhagavān: They had no resentment.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very happy. Just like you keep a dog. It is slave but it is very happy under the protection of good master.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: Actually, they like to work hard.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that's all. They have no other ambition. They don't want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal. That is their habit. My father used to say, "If you do not allow the servants to steal, so don't keep." Don't keep servants. "A servant who does not steal, he is not a gentleman. He must steal."

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So why this difference? What difference you find in animal from the man?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: She says it is only the body that is different.

Prabhupāda: Only body difference? The man who is there has got body different. The, the Africans, they have got different body. And the Europeans have different body. There are so many men. The aborigines have got different body. So there so many men, human also.

Yogeśvara: So then that is not the real difference?

Prabhupāda: So what is the real difference, that I want to explain.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: So what is her reply?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Suppose a child has a different body...

Lady (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: This young lady suggests that the animals do have a soul, and that they also pass from body to body, and perhaps ultimately can come to the human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: No, there...

Indian man: Geological information it was. It was together. And Australia was fitting in the Bay of Bengal. This is the theory. I learned from my lecturer, Dr. Willinghurst. He told me in my class.

Prabhupāda: Because from Bhāgavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they are still thief. (laughter) They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. (Dog barking) "Best friend."

Brahmānanda: Mahārāja Pṛthu also came from the body of King Vena.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bhāratavarṣa, this planet, nine varṣas: Bhārata-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If I do not do, then I will be sinful," that, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry. If there is any reaction, not doing other duty, simply to surrender to Me, and if there is sinful reaction, then I'll give you protection. Don't worry." This is the conclusion. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all, without any malinterpretation. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. But we are not interpreting. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And it is becoming effective. Bhagavad-gītā was studied in the Western countries since a long time, since seventeenth century—but not like this. Before me, many swamis, yogis, they came to the Western countries, and most of them spoke on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But now they are becoming by hundreds because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is. This is the comparison. We have got Christians, Mohammedans, then Buddhist, Africans. Everyone we have got in our society, all very devout executor of our mission. Now here is Mr. Attar. Now he is Atreya Ṛṣi. Whatever he is earning, he is spending for Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. He is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So in the dictionary it is stated, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god." He is not a Hindu god; He is God. But He appeared in India. He remained in the Vedic culture. Lord Buddha was also Hindu. And he was in Vedic culture. Later on he spread his own mission. That is also Hindu culture, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Lord Buddha... keśava dhṛta-buddha. The same Kṛṣṇa, His powerful avatāra, Lord Buddha.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So that consciousness should be without designation. If I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be effective. It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That we have to give up. Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They are not thinking. They do not think that they are American or they are Indian or Canadian or African or Hindu, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vai..., nothing of the sort.

Ambassador: Of course, there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness also.

Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help him. That will rather check him.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything. In your country there is adopted son?

Devotee: Yeah, yeah.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who takes milk... Everyone takes milk. The cow is the mother. Mother gives milk. And mother, when she cannot supply milk, mother should be cut up. Is that a very good philosophy? Is it human philosophy? What is the answer? But if you say that somebody wants to, say in your country majority they want to eat meat. So, if you put that argument, then you can eat some lower animals. You can eat the pigs. You are eating also, pigs. Not in a massive scale. Massive scale—if you are Christian you should follow your religious scripture: "Thou shall not kill!" This should be the principle. But if you are a rākṣasa, if you want to eat meat, then at least don't kill the cows. You can eat other, insignificant animals. You are eating also. You are eating everything. Except the moving cars, you are eating all the moving animals. The car also moves, but you cannot eat. Otherwise you are killing everything. You have become so civilized rascal that your business is to kill other animals and eat. You are so civilized. You are still in the crude form of human being, just like in the jungles, the aborigines, the Africans, they do not know how to develop civilization—crude methods, eating the animals. That also, they are not so uncivilized that they keep slaughterhouses. You are so uncivilized that you are keeping slaughterhouses, regularly. These Africans and other jungle people they eat meat, but they directly kill. They have no such civilization as to maintain a slaughterhouse. The tigers eat meat, but they do not keep a slaughterhouse. And you are civilized. You are keeping slaughterhouse. Why should you keep? The government shouldn't allow you to keep slaughterhouses. If anyone wants to eat meat, let them eat like tigers and others. Individually, kill one animal—a lower animal, not cows.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: Actually they are not very much concerned about their parents anymore either. They put them in institutions also when they get too old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, time will come; they will kill their father. Now they are killing their children. Now they will kill their father. As soon as the whole world will become Communist they will kill the old man, as the Africans, they do it. Africans kill their grandfather, and it is a festival. Yes. They throw the grandfather on the roof of the cottage, and it, rolling down, it falls down. Twice, thrice it dies. That becomes a great festival of the grandsons. They are eating grandfather. Glorious grandsons.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Maybe thousand years old.

Devotee (2): It's from Africa.

Prabhupāda: African trees are like tall like this.

Devotee (1): One hundred years, it's more than hundred years.

Indian man: This is that same one. They give red, different flowers.

Prabhupāda: This is also African?

Indian man: No, they have in India this tree also. That gives red flowers?

Prabhupāda: And it was in a small seed. Prepare such seed, you chemist. How strong!

Indian man: No, here, from that tree.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You have talked with Rāmeśvara that we are not any more going to send cash money.

Bahulāśva: I will tell him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...Jayatīrtha, another good news, that African government is understanding the importance of this movement.

Jayatīrtha: Ah. Brahmānanda was telling me some things about Africa. (break) ...professor who is doing a study on Kṛṣṇa consciousness now. He wants to come and see you. He comes over at least four or five times a week to the temple. He's becoming very serious. He's a psychologist, and he tells his patients that they should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will be the answer.

Prabhupāda: He says? (laughs)

Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes. He gives them cards and tells them to come and visit the temple. (break) ...publish some book about us. (break)

Prabhupāda: They should come forward and cooperate. It is such a nice thing. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading men. If they understand, the others will accept it. It is a good thing. They must accept it.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: He offered that. He said, "All the other religions, they have their... We have certain plots for them, and there is a church for Catholic, a church for Protestant, a church for Bahai."

Prabhupāda: No, no, take anywhere they give land. Yes. That will be recognition. We don't mind for the land, but the government has given land means recognized. That is wanted.

Brahmānanda: Oh yes, yes. (break) One of the African devotees was explaining to the vice-president that verse, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Brahmānanda: And he was explaining it to him from Bhagavad-gītā. And the vice-president he asked, "Who has given you this knowledge?"

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: He was so impressed. He accepted immediately, "Yes, you are right." (break)

Brahmānanda: ...Canto that Prabhupāda will read. (break)(end)

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Ṛṣi-kumāra: You have to possess some food and some shelter.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The food is supplied. Who is supplying food? If there is a hole in your room and so many thousands of ants are coming out, who is supplying food? Are you supplying that "Here is a hole. There are ants. They must be given some food"? Of course, that is your duty according to Vedic civilization. But who is doing that? But he is quite healthy. There are so many fishes in the water, many millions. Who is giving food them? There are many elephants in African jungles. They eat at a time forty kilos. So who is supplying food? This is not the problem. If the bird, beast, animals, fishes, aquatics and cats, dogs, everyone, can get food, what you have done that you will not get your food? You are human being. This is the right conclusion, that "If food is supplied to the elephants and to the ant by some superior arrangement, what I have done that I will not get my food?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Find out this verse. It is not in Bhagavad-gītā. In Bhāgavata.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Are you striving for peace in the world? Is it one of your goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is trying for peace in the world. I have already referred to the United Nations organization. They are also trying peace of the world. But one must know the right way how to bring peace in the world. So our proposition is that if you keep the human being as good as animal, then how there can be peace? There cannot be any peace among animal society. (aside:) Aiye. Let him... Jaya. This is our proposal. So we are bringing these Europeans, Americans, Africans, Canadians, Australians to this platform of understanding, that "We are human being; we are not animals." The... First I have already explained. So long we shall remain in the bodily concept of life, then we remain animal.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Indian man: (indistinct-loud static)

Prabhupāda: No, but just like you know in the rainy season there will be heavy rainfall, but you can protect yourself. You can get raincoat, you can get umbrella. Then you will... (break) So you cannot stop the rainy season, but you can protect yourself. (break) ...so many Africans. We have many Africans, devotees.

Guest (3): Yes. Americans.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Have you got any picture?

Brahmānanda: We have photographs of our temples in Kenya.

Cyavana: We have about thirty disciples in Nairobi, Africans.

Brahmānanda: You should see the film.

Cyavana: Yes.

Brahmānanda: If you come this evening, we have a nice film about our movement all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We go interior to African village.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here is one black American, a sannyāsī in the renounced order of life. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the bodily concept of life, he is no more African, no more American. He is spirit soul. (break)

Guest (2): ...Swamiji, a very personal question. How would you react when people give you a godly reception?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: He asks, "When you get a godly reception, when you come to a place, how does your..., receive it?"

Prabhupāda: Because I am representative of God, therefore they must give me godly reception. It is reception to God. Just like if you receive one ambassador from a country, then that means giving honor to that country. It is not my personal reception; it is acknowledging the glories of the Lord. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. It is said, "If you please God's representative, then God is pleased."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.

Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. South Africans, they were Europeans. The British started the first concentration camp. They took these "Afrikaners" as they call them, Europeans. They put them on an island called St. Helena. That was actually the first concentration camp, by the British.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Still, even the opposite party, they are not disgusted—"This material life is not very peaceful." They are not disgusted.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were making finer cloth by hand than the British were making by machines. So in order to discourage, they would cut off the thumb so they couldn't weave.

Prabhupāda: So many things. And to make a show, the Lord Hasting was impeached in the Parliament. Here the black men, they are Africans.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In this country there's nineteen million Africans and about over five million Europeans, about one million Indian people, and about one million colored people.

Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra prabhu?

Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they...

Prabhupāda: They are local women or...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little...

Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: British influence. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...appears it is very clean city.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area is downtown, it's not so clean. Downtown is not so clean. This area is.

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Over here is all residential, European apartment houses. And along the beach there is all hotels. This is a very big resort area in South Africa. There's a... Whole south coast, going down for about eighty miles, is all resorts. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...English-made city?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Durban is English city. Capetown has Dutch influence.

Prabhupāda: It resembles Melbourne. Melbourne. Australian Melbourne, this quarter resembles. (break) ...from Indian Ocean?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: ...have gone too much in the sand. It is dangerous. (break) ...panded so much, these Britishers, a few million people. This is demonic. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham: "I have got now so much. Now let me increase more." Never satisfied. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye mano: "I want to be the richest man, God." That was the British policy-ambition. Material ambition is like that. It increases more and more. (break) ...British buildings or American?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: South African.

Prabhupāda: South African.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A lot of investment comes from both America and England, industries.

Prabhupāda: So England has got money to invest still?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They do much investment here in South Africa. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a sidewalk here. Would you prefer walking on the sidewalk or the sands?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sidewalk is better.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: They are given equal facility for education?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. When Gokulendra went to England he saw a European man with a pick in his hand, and he couldn't believe it, because in South Africa you never see a European person with a pick opening up the street. Only the Africans do things like that. And they'll have one European man standing there, directing. He'll make so much money. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they have white and nonwhite. So technically speaking, they can classify all of the Indians as nonwhite. But at the same time, there is more division, and they have Indian community, and they have the colored community and the African community.

Prabhupāda: The government officer, responsible post, they are offered to the Indians? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Government?

Prabhupāda: Government responsible post.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: And for the black?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For the Africans? They don't have so much now. Very poor facility.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So the government gives facilities to the Indians, but separately.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not with them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not with them.

Prabhupāda: That is not bad.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It has preserved, little bit, the feeling of Hinduism here.

Prabhupāda: And for the black people there is no hospital?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have hospitals also, but not as good facility, because there are so many, and they haven't developed it sufficiently.

Prabhupāda: Medical help is free? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is to be paid.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But it is very inexpensive.

Prabhupāda: Education?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that education is free for Africans, is it?

Devotee (1): It's very, very cheap, but not for the colored, of course.(?) There are probably many more African schools than European schools, because there are so many Africans, it's very difficult...

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the white man is governing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, completely.

Prabhupāda: They are keeping, governing. This is Indian house. Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is Indian shopping, all Indian shops here. From here back is all Indian.

Prabhupāda: So the European come here to shop, for shopping?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: And that Suez Canal is closed, complete?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it's open again. (break) It is not as Westernized as in a place like Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The Africans are all thieves.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Here there is not as much stealing as in Nairobi. (break) I think they have had to amputate afterwards, mangled by the shore. It happens frequently. On some of the beaches here they've put up signs that "There are many sharks in the water. It is dangerous to bathe here." Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, "Amongst fish, I am the shark." (Prabhupāda chuckles) He shaved off his beard yesterday, this young boy. He shaved off. He had beard. He shaved off.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Further progress.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...900,000 forms of life in the water. How many they have seen? They are giving pictures. (break) Calcium carbonate, oil wintergreen, and soap powder, powder hard soap, and I will make toothpaste.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: It's just another way of looking out.

Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Gorilla. So these men are still existing. But why from gorilla they do not come?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don’t come from the gorilla.

Prabhupāda: Africans, I have seen, they look like gorilla. So why now from gorilla the Africans or any black man is not coming? Then the question is the black man… We have got experience. The black man come. And wherefrom the white man came? Is there any white gorilla?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: No. Then white man, how did he come?

Harikeśa: Well, sometimes there is a freak of nature, and the pigments that are in the skin…

Prabhupāda: Simply it is for Darwin, "sometime." To support his rascaldom, nature has to serve him “sometimes. “Just see. We have to believe. Nature's law is the same, symmetrical. Nature is not obliged to serve Mr. Darwin, the rascal. Sometimes. He says, "sometimes." He did, and he knew it only and nobody knew. We have to believe that. Sometimes it was done, and it was revealed to Darwin. How he came to know? Nobody could understand. Only Darwin could understand? There was no other?

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who will read our books, he will come to senses. These are all Indian quarters? (break) ...haven't got any good temple till now. (break) ...Africans, they do not live either with Indians or Europeans. They live separately.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Live separately. But usually every Indian or European has one or two Africans living behind the house as servants, so there are many living in the cities. We have one African girl in Johannesburg. She works at the temple. We've called her Pārijāta. We have one African girl because when we first came there were only a few of us and we didn't want to take up time to clean up the temple for our preaching work. So she has to get up very early in the morning.

Prabhupāda: She was paid for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it facilitated our preaching work. At first, I was against the idea, but I found it was good.

Prabhupāda: No, it was not good to give, keep young unmarried girl.

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it facilitated our preaching work. At first, I was against the idea, but I found it was good.

Prabhupāda: No, it was not good to give, keep young unmarried girl.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She is married with children. She is older. Her husband was murdered.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in Johannesburg. We didn't pick any young African girl, older lady and very respectful, honest. She's about fifty years old.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Her husband was walking home one day, and African killed him.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just for money. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: But at the same time, you want to live and enjoy. That is not allowed. Everyone wants to live and enjoy. Hm? Otherwise why, when there is attack outside, why do you fight? The tendency is that "I shall live comfortably." Why these white Europeans have made so high plan? So that they may not be kicked out by the Africans. That is the tendency. Therefore they are making secure, Africans far away so that they may not come. You want to live securely, but that is not there. You may make political arrangement very secure, but what is the nature's arrangement? You'll be kicked out at any moment. There is no certainty. There is no guarantee even that you will be allowed to live for so many years. At any moment.

Harikeśa: But if we're always thinking of death, how can we enjoy life now?

Prabhupāda: But death is sure. If you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the point. (laughs) Death is sure. And if you are not thinking, then you are a rascal. That is the proof. Suppose I am sitting here, we are walking here, and some danger is coming. It will immediately kill. So shall I remain here very peacefully? First of all make insurance, just like they make insurance, that no death will come. Your scientific advancement, your so many advancement, make it sure that you will not die. You will live here comfortably forever. Then you make your house nice, decorate it very... Where is that arrangement?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Reporter: Your Grace, a great many of South Africa's church leaders from some of the big churches are fearful that South Africa is going to find itself in a situation, or find... What message would you give this country in terms of avoiding any...

Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Join this, our center. You come here; you'll become Kṛṣṇa devotee. Just like these boys. They are not imported from India. They are European, American, and South African. You are South African?

Reporter: British.

Prabhupāda: British. And who is South African?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're South Africans.

Prabhupāda: So we welcome everyone, African, South African, North African.

Reporter: What stops so many millions of people from doing it?

Prabhupāda: Well, knowledge means it is meant for few men. If you want men without any university degree, you will get many thousands. But as soon as say, "We want graduate," it will be minimized. Or as soon as you say "postgraduate," it will be still minimized. So as soon as there is question of knowledge, the number of people will be diminished. So we cannot expect mass of people. But if there are good persons, exemplified person, vivid example, that will help the whole society—"There is ideal class. They know everything."

Reporter: You're going to be delivering two addresses next week at one of our biggest universities.

Prabhupāda: That he knows.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): So they got to order everybody. That's what I believe.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing. There is no good head. They are simply thinking in their animal way, "Why the Indians should come here?" And the Indians are, "Why whites are neglecting us?" This is going on because there is no good engagement. So this is essential, that the society should be divided into four classes of men: the first-class men-lazy intelligent; second-class men-busy intelligent; and third-class men-lazy fool; and fourth-class men-busy fool.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ice was coming down, hail. Hail. Before we went to the program there was hail, ice coming down. It's gone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.

Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.

Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.

Harikeśa: Africa.

Prabhupāda: Africa or similar, other places. They were living in best places, like India. Now the number of sinful persons are increasing. Therefore they have been transferred here.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: They are better. It doesn't matter ladies or lord. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious is good. Striyo śūdras tathā vaiśyas te 'pi yānti param. It doesn't matter whether woman, śūdra or vaiśya. If he is... If she is or he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone.

Lilāvatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We were thinking that unless the African people can see an example of a devotee, they won't continuously chant. They will chant while we are there and then they will forget.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you become an example yourself?

Lilāvatī: So to live amongst them, we were thinking, is very important.

Prabhupāda: You become an example by your behavior. Example is better than precept. (break)

Jñāna: ...to attain the necessary finances to support the programs here.

Prabhupāda: Beg. Sell book. That's all. Otherwise how you get finance?

Jñāna: One idea is to have a farm that we sell fruit or vegetables, like that.

Prabhupāda: If you open farm for financial help, then it will not be successful. You should take to farming for supporting yourself. That's all. Grow your own food. Grow your own cloth. There is no need of financial help from outside. You get your food grains sufficiently, rice, dahl, wheat, vegetables, milk, sugar. Bas You get everything. From these five, six items you should be economically free. That you have to do, not for trade to get money. Then it will be failure.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So here, in the human form of life, there is the opportunity to revive our original position, and we require the help of knowledge, perfect knowledge. And that is there in the Vedas. Atha eva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. If we don't take advantage, although we have got... We can read Bhagavad-gītā, and if we don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and go on whimsically, then we'll suffer. You cannot non-cooperate with Kṛṣṇa as you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. This is the... You must. There is no question of alternative. You may, may not know. It is not. You must. This is the position. Otherwise you'll never be happy. And happiness is your aim of life. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. We are... I'm suffering from this knee's trouble because I am in this material world. I have got this material body. So atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ means no more material world, no more material body. And for that purpose we have to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible. Any question about this? Just like these African women. They are going to work. There is no question of no work. They must. Otherwise they cannot eat. Anyone, if by working his livelihood is going on, how he can non-cooperate? This is not possible.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...I am in the car, they offer me.

Woman: Oh, all African, small boys.

Prabhupāda: They understand this is good.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I understand Kṛṣṇa is the Personality of Godhead, and He is the one who create this material world. So my impression is Kṛṣṇa, He didn't make this material world to be spiritual?

Prabhupāda: It is spiritual as soon as you become a devotee, spiritual. We are living in the spiritual world. That I explained last night. So ultimately there is nothing material. Material means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. That is material.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton. But when I say "Bring cotton," you'll not bring a cloth. You'll bring cotton. So the Kṛṣṇa is the sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all effects. So all the effects are Kṛṣṇa. But you have no such realization. When you understand that this place is Kṛṣṇa's place, so you can worship Kṛṣṇa, glorify Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't realize that it is Kṛṣṇa's, then you talk nonsense, madman. "This is American property," "It is African property," "It is this. It is that," so many madness. But the śāstra says, iśavāsyam idam, everything Kṛṣṇa's. And the materialists, they'll pro... "No. Why everything? It is my country. It is my place." That is material. Similarly, anything coming from Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is supreme spirit—it is spiritual. The devotees, they understand that "This fruit has come from Kṛṣṇa. The flower has come from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it must be offered to Kṛṣṇa. It is for use."

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Plucked out.

Cyavana: Then he was shot.

Brahmānanda: Then he was shot.

Prabhupāda: African?

Brahmānanda: There was a big scandal because the police were implicated.

Prabhupāda: This parking plan are made by them?

Brahmānanda: I don't know.

Cyavana: The park itself?

Prahupada: Yes.

Cyavana: This park? The British. They designed all these parks and roads.

Brahmānanda: I know that other park-yesterday or the other day we went—that was done by the British. They've taken plants from all over East Africa.

Prabhupāda: All these buildings are constructed by the Britishers.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So when they kill such brutally in the farm, the Britisher did not take any step?

Brahmānanda: Not very effective steps. They declared a state of emergency, and they brought soldiers here, and they had huge arrests. They had camps just outside of Nairobi, and they were arresting tens of thousands, huge camps. But the tactics that they would use, the Africans, the British soldiers couldn't...

Prabhupāda: They brought British soldiers or Indian soldiers?

Brahmānanda: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: British soldiers, so long, how they'll come? They were using Indian soldiers.

Indian: I know that Indian peoples, they helped them to get this freedom. That is the reason they have a little bit respect for the Indians now, this president.

Prabhupāda: How Indian people helped them?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: The Indians had the experience of the independence in India to draw on for inspiration and also for their strategies and so on, to guide the Africans.

Prabhupāda: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.

Indian: Now they have brought a income tax official all from India here. So the Indian people, they were giving their money to the African and taking money to London and U.K., here and there. So now they have brought out from India. They are very strict. People still take money, but they have more to take than the African. The African people are very poor, and they were giving them so much money and taking money out of it. It is difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra. The original word is coming from śās. Sas means ruling, śās-dhātu. Śāstra, śāstra, śāsana, śisya. Śisya. Śisya means voluntarily accepting ruling. That is called śisya.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.

Indian man (4): Many intelligent people in Africa, they are taking it very seriously. We have one professor, Entenjania Danisanjunibristi. He's a very young boy. So he bought your Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavat dāsa was there. So he took all the picture out, all the picture, and he framed. I have seen in the room. He put all the pictures in his room. Then he was writing me from a long time. He became our patron life member, and now he chants sixteen rounds. He has gone to London for our course. He said, "After finishing this course I will take initiation from His Divine Grace. Then I will dedicate my whole life to preach in the university."

Prabhupāda: He is Indian or African?

Indian man (4): No, no, African. He's a professor. Oh, yes. You have seen the letter, I think. So when I was in, then I was in Mandena's room. He said "No, you stay with me. Don't stay with the Asians." So I was in (?) university, you know. He said Asian can take this philosophy and not be so serious. Now he has gone to London. He may see you when you will be there, for a year. And he chants sixteen rounds. He has nobody, no picture else in his room. There was one picture of the president there. He took it down and he put a Kṛṣṇa picture there. So it's very serious. And he said, "I don't know. Since I have read the Bhagavad-gītā I go to my class to give a class to the students and I don't speak anything else about the scriptures."

Prabhupāda: That is the sign.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Devotee (5): They always say the Africans could never become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming?

Devotee (5): They don't believe.

Prabhupāda: Believe? You do not see even?

Devotee (5): But they say that "Oh, he will do it, and then, after one year, he will stop."

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another criticism. Somebody is eating nice yogurt. Everyone will say, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice, very nice." Another man says, "Yes, it is nice, but after three days it will be sour." (laughter) You rascal, you consider for the present. What "after three days"? Means he's a bad critic, so he could not find out any fault. Everyone says it is good. So "After three days it will be bad." This sort of criticism. So you have already become bad. You were doing service to others. What does he do, that priest?

Brahmānanda: He's a businessman.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian man (6): So don't you think that the blame should not be, usually be laid on the Africans but on the whole...?

Brahmānanda: He's saying that the brāhmaṇas who comes from our overseas temples here, it's their responsibility to see that the Africans follow properly, because the Africans will follow their example.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for that purpose they have come. That is the purpose, missionary purpose, here. We come here not to earn some money but to see that this culture is spread. So what is his question?

Brahmānanda: So it's the responsibility then of those who are coming as the missionaries to set the proper example.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Brahmānanda: Because then the Africans will follow that proper example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, he is right.

Brahmānanda: If they set a bad example, then they will follow bad example, then the criticism of the Indians will be justified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it. So those who cannot follow, they should not come here. And ask from the origin that "Those who cannot strictly follow the rules and regulations, they should not come at all. It will set a bad example. They should be forbidden to come here." That I was speaking, that instead of filling with bad cows, better keep the cowshed vacant. That I was speaking. Those who cannot strictly follow our principles, they should not come here. It is bad example. By mistake, if somebody does, he should be regretful and he should rectify. That is another thing. But not willingly he should neglect. Then such person is not required at all.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Uddhara means deliverance.

Brahmānanda: Okay. "Delivering the kirātas." They might object to that. (laughing) They might object to that.

Prabhupāda: They might object?

Brahmānanda: The Africans, if they ask what is the meaning of that, they might object.

Prabhupāda: No, you can say kirāta means African. Actually that is the meaning. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkhaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā...

Yaśomatīnandana: Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Śuddhyanti.

Yaśomatīnandana: What is this Ābhīras? Ābhīra?

Prabhupāda: Ābhīra, this dacoit class.

Yaśomatīnandana: Dacoits.

Prabhupāda: Just like the queens of Dvāraka were plundered by the Ābhīra. That's why. There is no pasturing ground. Otherwise this cow would have been taken there. He would have eaten grass. That's all. What she will eat here in the town? Even Sumati Morarji's cows, they are not healthy. (Hindi) (pause) It appears to be so because in the evening the milk, whatever you give me, that appears to be powdered milk.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Maybe we should have our men stand there and milk and get directly from...

Prabhupāda: Everyone will say, "We should have," but who will have? There is no men. As soon as try to find out a man, there is no man. Simply we shall suggest, "We should have." That's all. And who is the man, that is not to be found, although we have got so many men. Why this deficiency? Everyone suggests that "There should have been a man," but who is that man? No man. As soon as try to find out who is that man, no man. Find out a man immediately. Not "should have." Immediately you must have. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...means?

Prabhupāda: Means African.

Brahmānanda: African? No other meaning to it? No other meaning?

Prabhupāda: American? (laughter) (end)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All of them are South African?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, actually, he's from South Africa and he's from South Africa. These two devotees are going down for the first time, and Jagat-guru was preaching there once before.

Prabhupāda: So they will get visa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't require visa except for Jagat-guru. He's British, he's Canadian. He's South African boy. He's South African.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they don't require visa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only Jagat-guru dāsa, American.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So he'll get visa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now, we have studied this South Africa. They like our movement. They are purchasing books. That is very good sign. Is it not? They are purchasing? Who are purchasing books? Educated circle?

Devotee (1): Colleges.

Prabhupāda: College. That is.... College, universities, that is educated.... So I was surprised when, after my meeting, they purchased books, because these South African white men, they do not like very much Indians. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: But still, they like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is very good sign.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the Indians are attracted to our Indian culture.

Prabhupāda: They lost their culture.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. We don't want money. So give them directly.

Jagat-guru: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.... (too faint)

Prabhupāda: South African mission, very good.

Devotee: At this present moment, Prabhupāda, we have a really unique situation, the best of all.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: A unique situation in South Africa, because there are many Europeans that are being drafted into the Army, but they will not allow the Indians to be drafted. They don't want them to go into the military forces because they're afraid they're too intelligent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of our brahmacārīs, they've been drafted into the army. We've lost several devotees like that, because it's very hard for them to maintain their Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the army.

Prabhupāda: Conscription.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Mr. Dixon: Yes, I think, ah, if you're looking at the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the principle. Actually it is not your land. You come from Europe.

Mr. Dixon: I agree that it's not.

Prabhupāda: But you are now claiming it is your land. The Africans, they are claiming. So much land, you can produce ten times food grains for as many population as there are. Ten times milk is required, food grain is required. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Mr. Dixon: If we produced all of the foods that we could produce and we literally gave them away to other countries that need them, we'd produce a tremendous disincentive in those countries for their own production. I don't think it's as easy, the world...

Prabhupāda: Production.... You take the total land as God's property, and all the population, they are sons of God. Then whole problem solved. Everything solved. If economic problem is solved, then social, political, religious, philosophical, everything is solved.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Johannesburg.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed. Gandhi tried to adjust this injustice, but he failed. Then with determination he went to India, that "I must drive away the Englishmen." These South African white men, mostly they are Englishmen and Dutchmen. Originally, they were Englishmen and Dutchmen.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You see this black men. They earn sufficient money, but see their home. See their home. You America, you have given them equal rights, they are getting money, but they have no culture. Therefore you may pay them as much as you like, but still poverty-stricken. In Africa also I have seen that they have got their own kingdom, independence, but if we go to the African slums, they are poverty-stricken, wretched. So this civilization will not endure. If there is no culture, simply by money you cannot maintain a standard of civilization. That is not possible. Now the American leaders they are thinking, "Let us have money, then everything..." Of course, by money you are covering all the defects of the social culture. But this will not endure. Day will come and everything will be exposed. Therefore culture required.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Africa also they eat live bugs. Cockroaches, dead or alive, anything. Once when we were in Zambia, there was this one African who was cleaning around the house, his name was David. He was about twenty years old. So we swept up his room because it was so filthy—I was there at the time. And there were all these cockroaches in a pile, and we were about to throw them out and he said, "What, you're throwing them out? You mean you're not going to eat them?" (laughter)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: There was one big, big professor we met in the college...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to understand that prasādam is (indistinct). (laughter)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Not only the Africans, but this big, big professor, she is advocating that people should eat the bugs because they are good protein. She is experimenting different bugs to eat—the worm, the cockroach, the beetle—and she's making a big study, being paid money, how to feed people by eating insects.

Hari-śauri: They're already doing that. In France, you can buy cans of chocolate-coated ants, grasshoppers, frog's legs, bumblebees, fried bumblebees you can get. The French eat the most abominable foodstuff.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English think that way, anyway.

Hari-śauri: They all do.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English think the French eat abominable foods.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: This is the modes of nature, Śrīla Prabhupāda, acting.

Prabhupāda: Kadarya bhakṣaṇa.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Davis: Is it not also true that the more you can realize "I am not this body," but there is that within my body which is spiritual, and that is there in an African's body which is spiritual, or a Chinese...

Prabhupāda: Everyone's body.

Mr. Davis: Everyone's body, therefore the thing we have in common is we are all a part of the spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. We are part and parcel of the supreme spirit, God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." Qualitatively, we are one. Just like a small particle of gold is also gold. It is nothing else. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, we have got that godly qualification. God can create. We can also create. That example I have given in my last magazine, that we have created this big 747 airplane, but we cannot create a mosquito. That is also plane, with pilot. That is God's creation. So the creative power, both of us, we have got, but we are limited, and He is unlimited. That is the difference. A drop of seawater contains the same chemicals, but the quantity of Atlantic Ocean and drop of Atlantic Ocean is not the same.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: It is African lung-fish. It lives in the mud.

Prabhupāda: And they do not speak anything about trees.

Rādhāvallabha: Not that I've ever seen.

Prabhupāda: Hum?

Rādhāvallabha: I've never seen anything.

Hari-śauri: No, they say the organisms that were originally in the water, and when there was some land formed...

Prabhupāda: How is this grass evolving?

Rādhāvallabha: They say that the wind blows the seeds. Or animals drop them. They also say that flying animals, like birds, came from the sea in one form.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Dravidian?

Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: The whole world is becoming CIA. (laughter) We can say, that "All right, the Americans have sent their CIA, but why the Germans business there? They are also CIA?" And where is... Soon the Russians also will join, the Polish also will join, everyone will join.

Bhagavān: Africans.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: They can't say the Russians are CIA. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. We have got potency to force everyone to join. The Russians have already imperceptibly joined—they have praised my books. That is imperceptible, what is called?

Harikeśa: Ajñāta-sukṛti.

Prabhupāda: Ah. In East Germany also, they have placed order. So this is joining. Just like for us, if you bring any other literature, we throw it away immediately. We take it as useless. Actually it is. We have nothing to learn from them, anything. All bogus. Either he's scientist or astronomer, or..., we know they are talking all bogus things. There may be some truth. Even that truth is there when a child speaks, there is some truth. When a child speaks to his parents, there is some truth, otherwise where is the question of talking? So little portion truth is there, everywhere. But when they talk of big, big things—they are going to Mars and scratching sand there—that we don't believe. That we don't believe.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: United Nations which is practically demonstrated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...is practical... (writing down)

Prabhupāda: Our movement, all over the world they have joined. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and Africans. All, everywhere.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON has devotees in all parts of the world in all nationalities, including Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Should the government need any further information we will be more than happy and pleased to cooperate in all respects. With kindest regards. Your sincerely, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Secretary, ISKCON." It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is nicely done.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...of United Nations. (Hindi) ...practically they do. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jews, African, and so...

Indian man: Real United Nations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The real United Nations. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nations...

Hari-śauri: Oh, in Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that "It is a dog's barking association." (laughter) It was published.

Indian man: Published.

Hari-śauri: Front page. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And he added something, that "Swami is hounding."

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch. Black debauch. (break) ...Vaiṣṇava religion is sex. (break) There are aborigines in India. Santal, (?) they are called santal. Black men, live in the forest like the African aborigines. So I asked him that "You, jungle, do you meet the tigers?" "Oh, yes, yes. Why not?" "So how do you save yourself?" So he had a small axe in his hand. So he showed me that "So long I have got this axe, even the tiger will not dare to attack me." (Bengali or Hindi) After all, tiger is afraid of the axe. They are afraid of even stick.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... And we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (5): Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.

Guest (5): In this country also they have taken?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country. One Dr. Ramjan (?), he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name, Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is there any chance of opening?

Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.

Prabhupāda: There must be preacher, good preacher.

Indian man: Preacher of their language. But language (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Why they are blamed? Everyone is doing that. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Africans also do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: Their uniqueness is that they display the head on a spear.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Any head.

Dr. Patel: And they dance, even as they do in Africa. Nagas are very much civilized now.

Prabhupāda: Civilized?

Dr. Patel: In this way...

Prabhupāda: No, they were civilized. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: Western civilization, I mean to say.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how Arjuna could marry?

Dr. Patel: Fourth-class civilization. In Naga races there is polyandry, sir. One woman can...

Prabhupāda: Still there are, in Himalayan hills. One woman has got five husbands.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Sir, from the very beginning, I am attached to the society, and through these...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is social animal. "Society, friendship, and love." They say "divinely bestowed upon man." So because we are strongly in misunderstanding our identification, we take this society as divinely. But we have got the society that is not on the bodily conception. Otherwise, these European, Americans, Africans, Canadians, they would not have come together. This is a different platform. It is a society, but on the spiritual platform.

Guest (1): Sir, may I know the meaning of the divine name Hare Kṛṣṇa and Hare Rāma? The real meaning of the divine name Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma?

Prabhupāda: Meaning is very simple. The Hare, it is addressing, sambodhana. Just like we ask somebody, "Hello, Mr. such and such." It is like that, Hara. Hara is the energy of the Supreme Lord. Supreme Lord is Hari, and Hara is the energy, potency. So we are addressing hara—"Hare." And "Kṛṣṇa," that is also addressing, hara, Kṛṣṇa. So we are praying: "O the energy of the Lord, O Your Lordship, kindly engage us in Your service."

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: This is a very good one, from the University of Helsinki. That's right near the Russian border, in Finland. He's a professor of Indian studies, the Department of Asian and African Studies, Professor extraordinarious, Penti Alto. "The Bhagavad-gītā is no doubt the most important and the best known work in the whole of Indian literature. The magnificence of its spiritual concepts and the sublimity of its thinking have secured a great popularity everywhere. It has been edited and commented countless times. The meaning of the text, at least in its main lines, is obvious and clear. The justification of a new interpretation is there, for in my opinion, dependent on the message conveyed by the commentary. The translator and commentator, Swami Bhaktivedanta, represents the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava school, and thus interprets the message of the Gītā 'from the inside.' For example, Shankara in Canto Two"—he means Chapter Two—"verse twelve, interprets the plurality of the being enumerated to be only conventional. And according to the Māyāvādīns, the individuals after liberation merge into the impersonal Brahman. Swami Bhaktivedanta states that Kṛṣṇa here authoritatively emphasizes the eternity of the individuality."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Satsvarūpa: "The transcendental form of God can be immediately experienced by a person who is duly prepared, as it is told in Chapter Eleven. Just these two points are, I think, the reason for the interest in the Gītā among persons with a searching spirit. Swami Bhaktivedanta's translation and commentary do deliver this message very convincingly indeed."

Rāmeśvara: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: He is a big professor.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, he's very important.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Brahmānanda: Which? What?

Prabhupāda: About these Asian, African, like that.

Brahmānanda: Well, it's the same. I mean everything is going... The government creates more difficulties, but still, everything is going on. No one is... I mean some are leaving, but of course many are staying.

Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to leave?

Brahmānanda: Well, the small men are leaving, but the big men, they're not leaving. Things are still going on.

Nanda-kumāra: Last year the government said within five years every Asian would be out of Kenya.

Prabhupāda: This government says like that?

Brahmānanda: I don't know if the government has said it, but people talk like that just to create some atmosphere of uncertainty. These unstable governments, they like to create this kind of atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: There are many Indians. Practically Indian.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Brahmānanda: ...and Nairobi was like Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are living nicely. Why this government disturbing them?

Brahmānanda: Well, that is their policy.

Prabhupāda: They cannot manage nicely. The Africans are not so qualified. The Indians, they are managing business, everything.

Brahmānanda: Now Amin in Uganda, he's now inviting so many Indians to come as teachers, doctors. He's getting them from India now.

Hari-śauri: He just kicked them all out.

Brahmānanda: Now he's getting them back again.

Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. They are thrown away from the established condition; so now he wants them back. In one sense it is right, that these rascals may not imitate him.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Brahmānanda: So the only difficulty there is that we cannot make devotees from the local population.

Prabhupāda: Either Indian or African.

Brahmānanda: Yes, either one. So unless we get men from overseas, then for us to expand is very difficult. Just like for this Mombassa. We get this big house. Unless we have men to maintain it, then why should we take it?

Prabhupāda: But overseas, we have got enough men.

Brahmānanda: We only have twelve devotees there and two temples. It's very less.

Prabhupāda: You cannot export from America?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we have to. We have to.

Prabhupāda: It is your missionary activities, American.

Brahmānanda: So far for the Africans, we're giving them prasādam and kīrtana. But anything more than that, we cannot expect. If we give them that, they are satisfied.

Prabhupāda: They're hearing kīrtana?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. One day they'll come. That will cure them.

Nanda-kumāra: On the street, almost any African you say "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he'll say "Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: That is nice.

Rāmeśvara: Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja is becoming interested also in Africa, because it's very close to Brazil. He will also be able to send men as a demonstration of his interest.

Prabhupāda: Then do it. Some way or other, manage. It is Kṛṣṇa's business.

Rāmeśvara: I think we'll discuss this at the Māyāpur meeting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You are so many GBC's. You can discuss now.

Rāmeśvara: But the ones who are going to send the men aren't here.

Prabhupāda: How many GBC's you are, present now?

Hari-śauri: Gurukṛpa Mahārāja...

Rāmeśvara: Four. And Gargamuni. Five.

Prabhupāda: So what happened in Purī?

Rāmeśvara: Where's Gargamuni?

Prabhupāda: You also went. You also went.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They have got respect for prasādam. So you are distributing prasādam?

Brahmānanda: Yes, twice a day, at noon and at evening. We've built a special pavilion on the side of the temple. See, we were making the mistake all along of trying to mix the Africans and the Asians together.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Brahmānanda: That was a bad policy. Now we have separate, the Asians on one side and the Africans on the other side, and both are happy.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Brahmānanda: Before they were both unhappy. Now they're both happy.

Prabhupāda: No, the Indians, they do not like to sit down...

Gargamuni: No. Indians don't like to mix, and Africans also, they like to be with their own. The instruments we use... They make their own instruments out of different materials. They have these pieces of metal and wooden blocks. They love it. They can make much noise. Actually the Asians like it very much when they see the Africans doing that. So both are very happy.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.

Bhāgavata: This is an Indian lion, from India. They have captured in India. And they also have African lions in here.

Gurukṛpa: Gujarati. It's a Gujarati.

Bhāgavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...monkey and cow. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. Lion in the rajo-guṇa, monkey in the tamo-guṇa and cow in the sattva-guṇa.

Hari-śauri: What about the cows that they slaughter? Do they have to continue in a cow birth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: These are African lions.

Prabhupāda: Oh. They are bigger?

Bhāgavata: Little different species. Different color. (lion growls)

Satsvarūpa: Don't tease him.

Prabhupāda: No, don't tease him. After all, they are lion. Hm, they are bigger, very big. Here there is cubs?

Bhāgavata: Inside there are cubs.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So if you can educate people, they will be united. This is actually united nations movement. Actually see how these Europeans, Americans, and Africans, and others, without any artificial allurement, how we are keeping together. Nobody is dissatisfied with humble eating, humble living, humbly, plain living. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking-United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Kṛṣṇa conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity.

Hari-śauri: Just like India has so many villages. Because they are living simply, then there's enough for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No scarcity. Population increasing? You increase your food. So much land everywhere vacant, all over the world. But that they will not do. They will keep the cattles and eat. Cattle also, they want vegetables. Otherwise where you'll get cattle? But therefore in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food grains. Just like this is. How nice it is, from paddy. So you take the paddies, rice, eat, and the grass you can utilize in so many ways. Anywhere you can till the ground, you get paddy and the grass. Make your cottage. So shelter is there. And the animals also like this grass. You can make home. Where is the scarcity? Plain living, high thinking, and prepare for next life. Go back home, back to Godhead. Finish this hellish life of repeated birth and death. There is no knowledge. And when we try to give them this knowledge, they say, "You are brainwashed. You have imported some new way of life, style of life. Brainwash." So our European, American devotees, they like rice? No.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Because I went to some universities. They have big, big universities in Cairo and in every places in North Africa, because now they try to be educated. The white Africans, they have some intelligence to understand to a certain extent philosophy, because when I was talking about the Bhagavad-gītā, when I showed the table of contents, they more or less agreed to take interest in it because they didn't see anything specific about another religion, another God. They were seeing the titles like "Confidential Knowledge," "Transcendental Knowledge," "Karma-yoga," "Jñāna-yoga." They are very interested about knowing these things.

Prabhupāda: That is good the first, beginning, let them come. Let them sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasāda. In Iran we are doing that. Gradually it is becoming interesting. You had been in our Iran, Tehran?

Pṛthu-putra: I went there also some time, long time ago. But Iran is a different concept. They're not so strict about following the Koran. For example, these Arabic countries like Algeria, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia, they don't recognize Iran like being part of them. Iran and Turkey and Afghanistan they think is another Muslim world. For example, in Iran there is much more Sufis, the different... But in these Arabic countries like Egypt, they're really conservative. They're very strict.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Conservative means fanatical.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Yes. Actually one of our members in Mombassa, he wanted to buy us a farm. Unfortunately Cyavana rejected it. Anyway, he went and bought the farm for eighty thousand, and now he's developed it, and it's a wonderful farm. We went there for a program. It's very productive. He has one manager, an Indian manager, and the Africans do all the work. He has cows and mangoes, growing vegetables. He's very thankful to us because we helped...

Prabhupāda: Gave the idea.

Brahmānanda: Yes. But he's our good friend and supporter. He will help us in Mombassa very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: At that time not Churchill. Attlee, Attlee was Prime Minister.

Brahmānanda: In Africa, Nehru, he was instructing the African leaders also how to get...

Prabhupāda: Freedom.

Brahmānanda: Freedom. So they all allowed the Indian example. So the British, they were very resentful against the Indians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now British making "Drive away. Drive away the Indians."

Brahmānanda: They became the leaders of the independence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now they are still resentful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.

Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.

Brahmānanda: In Durban he started.

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Jayatīrtha: None.

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: Soon as we have our center...

Prabhupāda: In Africa also, land is cheap. Give this civilization. Then our mission will be... The African people are nice. Everywhere they are nice. These rascal leaders make them bad. In Russia also they have nice people. These, a few rascals, they are controlling the government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Leaders are bad all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: America also.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere the mass people is good. We know it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This prasādam and chanting will cure them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Preaching center in Nigeria. Richest African country.

Satsvarūpa: Bali-mardana has been given permission to move the Adelaide center to the Australian farm. Ātreya Ṛṣi permission to open centers in Karachi and Istanbul. Jayapatākā Mahārāja permission to open Panihati and Dacca. And Haṁsadūta Mahārāja in South India, Bangalore, Madras, Kodaikanal, Colombo in Ceylon, and Kathmandu, Nepal; and Goa.

Prabhupāda: Lage laghu.(?) Very good.

Satsvarūpa: In the US, all that territory where there are no temples was assigned into geographic zones so that all territory in Canada and the United States fits into the zone of one GBC or another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'd just like to point out to Your Divine Grace that preaching center means no Deities. It just means Pañca-tattva worship.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: And what is your alternative?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? We are preaching internationalism, everyone welcome. Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being done. Real United Nations. Here is Christian, here is Jew, here is African, here is Muhammadan, everything. Worldwide. That is real United Nations. They have no conception. If they would thought that "I am American," then why he is after a poor Indian man? Indians are known outside India as poverty-stricken, and that's a fact. So why he should come to the person born of poverty-stricken nation? But actually we are not poverty-stricken. If we cultivate our own standard of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, then we are the richest and we can give the whole world the gift. That should be... And they will welcome. That will be glorified if they accept. Just see. This is our... I am trying for that.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to a ten-day function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. She went to a party, she stayed there, and she left and the host did not know that "Indira Gandhi is here." That shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: And anyone who is vidvān, then that will be honored everywhere.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we have no difficulty. Anyone can say. If you study Bhagavad-gītā nicely, assimilate and repeat it, it will act. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are teaching that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances." It doesn't require that you become very learned scholar. Anyone can do. A child can do. That's it. We are teaching. Where is the difficulty? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? Why you are making so big, big program without any effect? Take the simple thing, program, and preach everywhere. That is being done. We are preaching this philosophy all over the world, and they are accepting. You know that. In Europe, America, Australia, in everywhere, in all parts of the world they are preaching. Even the Africans, they are chanting name. So if I have manufactured some theory and with a limited circle I am satisfied, that is good? Or Kṛṣṇa's program, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's program, it is being accepted all over the world—that is good or this is good? Which one is good? So everyone is manufacturing some concoction, and he's satisfied with few followers. But we have got Kṛṣṇa's program, and it is being followed all over the world. So which one is good, with some limited circle or all over the world? That is the proof that we have enough (indistinct). (remainder of recording too faint to transcribe) (end)

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Try to bring him back. He is very competent. So jointly organize South Africa, both Europeans, Americans, Africans. Tulasī dāsa is very competent also. United Nations under Caitanya Mahāprabhu's flag, do everywhere. It is possible. Always that is simply a false attempt. This is the real.

Brahmānanda: You said that when you first came to New York. You went to the United Nations. The very first day I came to the kīrtana there in New York. The next day you went for that peace vigil outside the United Nations, and you were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saying that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only method for making United Nations.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Āśraya lañā pāile, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra sama māre aphala.(?) If we try under the protection of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, things will be successful. Others, they'll simply waste time and be disappointed and change his body and suffer. Today is Ekādaśī?

Haṁsadūta: Today is Ekādaśī.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Persian civilization, very high, Aryan civilization.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There was this Persian boy who was translating Bhagavad-gītā. He had come with me last month to Vṛndāvana to have your darśana. Then you had gone to London.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, things are going nice-slow but sure. You have got this Persian civilization and he has got the African civilization. (laughter) Black and white.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) ...coming with the report of Persia and...

Hari-śauri: He's saying he's very much pleased when you gave the report of Persia.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You should come and visit us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I am ready to go immediately.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can show our South African success.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very grand opening is being planned for Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If the President of India comes, then it will get front-page coverage.

Prabhupāda: Who is the President?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the President now?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ansen Jiwar(?) Reddy. He's more religious than the previous one.

Prabhupāda: Ansen(?) Reddy, he was Home Minister? No.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see our activities all over the world.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: South Africa. Is it not South Africa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why don't you show them the South African report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...slaughterhouse... (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a temple that was built there. We have a big farm there as well as two temples. This is one of the temples.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Without culture they're suffering. If you want to mitigate their sufferings, give this Gītā culture. That is my experience. (Hindi) We have sold this Caitanya-caritāmṛta even in Russian countries.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Russian countries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here are some of our African publications, Śrīla Prabhupāda, published in Swahili.

Prabhupāda: African, Chinese, Japanese.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is really humanitarian.

Page Title:African (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=115, Let=0
No. of Quotes:115