Advancement (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"advancement" |"advancements"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: advancements or advancement not "advance* civilization*"@5 not "spiritual advancement"@3 not "material advancement"@3

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Yogi Amrit Desai: Bhakti. No matter what path you follow, without bhakti it is incomplete.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot go to God...

Yogi Amrit Desai: No, without bhakti, no.

Prabhupāda: No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa never says, "By karma, jñāna, yoga one can achieve Me." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. So unless you take to bhakti, a little advancement it may be, but that is material.

Yogi Amrit Desai: It's not of the highest nature.

Prabhupāda: So you can take... You have taken to bhakti-yoga, but take it seriously, pure bhakti-yoga. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). (break) ...favorable, according to bhakti-yoga, then he is successful.

Trivikrama: Śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Pure bhakti. (Hindi) jñāna...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Kevala-bodha-labdhaye, kliśyanti. Just to know things, if he's simply troubling, his gain is that troubling only. Śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. So jñāna... This jñāna is to understand. Just like the scientists, they are getting some knowledge, studying some features, and what do they gain more?

Yogi Amrit Desai: Just information and a memory.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So at least Indians should join this movement. They're feeling the weight, the Western countries. They are opposing means that those who are thoughtful, they are thinking that "If this movement allowed to go on, then our civilization will be finished." That is their... That... They are right. They are right. If these young men, they go on under my instruction, I shall finish their civilization. That's a fact. No meat-eating in Western countries? (chuckling) No intoxication? No illicit sex? No gambling? That means their life is finished. And we are imitating, that "We are becoming advanced in civilization." And we are condemning.

CID Chief: But most of the people realize that that is not the real..., real kind of advancement.

Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."

CID Chief: We are helpless. I assure that will stand, but actually what we call advancement in... It is not. People themselves are realizing that...

Prabhupāda: Yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam.

CID Chief: ...that advancement has led them to some sort of monotony, which they want to avoid, and they want to...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, we must know the destiny of life, what is the destiny of life. Then whether we are advancing or degrading, then it will be decided. But they do not know what is destiny of life. They are so fools, they are thinking that this life, say, for hundred years, and after hundred years everything finished. The Russian big, big professor, they think like that. I went to Moscow, and I talked with Indologist. They say "Swamiji, after this body is finished, everything is finished."

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore our Trivikrama Mahārāja is reminding me... When I was lecturing in Berkeley University, one Indian student asked me, "Swamijī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will benefit? We require technology." So I replied that "You have come to beg technology; I have come to give them, not to beg from them."

Trivikrama: To teach. "I've come to give."

Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.

Trivikrama: Now they're changing.

Dr. Patel: In Manipur where Arjuna made...

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: And He is lying on Śeṣa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.

Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"

Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.

Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.

Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.

Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.

Rāmeśvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not become tired. Kṛṣṇa conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Duralage hurahuri. (?) Competition. This is spiritual.

Rāmeśvara: This is one devotee who is painting dolls of the demigods.

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these people come from Muscat. That's where I went last month. (break) (Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: ...supervises all the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he should be engaged for propaganda.

Rāmeśvara: For every exhibit Bharadrāja has to make a complete drawing.

Prabhupāda: His wife is also helping?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When I went to your MIT, I challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Do you know that? This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.

īśvaraḥ sarva bhūtānāṁ

hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

bhrāmāyan sarva bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

(BG 18.61)

Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jīvātmā is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasāda. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That he's also kṣetrajñā. Kṣetra is this body, and kṣetrajñā one knows, this body.... Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2) (Indian man): Mahārāja, in the context of the universe, the technological and scientific advancement is very, very insignificant. But as far as human beings are concerned, they feel that they have achieved great deal.

Prabhupāda: Why? You cannot give life.

Guest (2): Because there is a change from the past. So they feel that there is a difference. But that is at a very low level...

Prabhupāda: That is my point, that you are becoming so much proud of your technological..., but what you have done?

Guest (2): It is very insignificant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my point. Why you become falsely proud that you have done so advancement that you don't care for God, you don't care for the original manufacturer? That is your fault.

Guest (2): The other day there was a doctor who had come from America for transplantation of kidney, and he has given a lecture in the Rotary Club. I was there. Now they give so much importance to the person who is able to transplant kidney from one body to the other, but how about the whole human being or the universe which has been created by God? Now, this is just a very, very insignificant thing which is already there which is just transplanted. But they feel so happy and proud.

Prabhupāda: That is my point, falsely proud.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti... (BG 3.27). "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimūḍhātmā, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Kṛṣṇa never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehāntara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmaṇā, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sad means "Try to come to the transcendental platform, sat, and don't remain in this asat." Asat means which is temporary.

Guest (6): And tamasi mā jyotir gamaya.

Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?

Gargamuni: Anthropology?

Prabhupāda: Anthropology.

Jayapatākā: Now the latest demon is the one who says the population theory, overpopulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: He is causing the trouble now.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So much.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They had to do that because their economy was ruined. He had taken away... This man was crazy. He had taken away all the tariffs, so that foreign countries were supplying their products in Australia, and the local businessmen..., local manufacturers were going out of business. So many problems. And they're so proud of their modern culture, modern education and advancement, but they're being blackmailed by the Arabs. The Arab countries are considered very undeveloped, and the Western world is so proud how advanced they are, yet they are now being blackmailed by the Arabs for oil. So what is the use of their advancement? And now whatever the Arabs want, they have to do.

Prabhupāda: I think he is not returning. He's gone forever. Gargamuni: Who?

Hari-śauri: Devi-dhāma. Oh, no. He's back. He's back.

Gargamuni: Just now.

Prabhupāda: So what did he bring?

Rāmeśvara: So they have become completely dependent on oil.

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial, it will break. You cannot make a scheme of mental concoction. That will not endure. You take standard it will be beneficial. The whole world is in chaotic condition because they have so many artificial way of living.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So it's not that these...

Prabhupāda: We do not approve anything which is not actually beneficial. Otherwise it doesn't matter, homeopathic or allopathic. But there is standard medicine given by Dhanvantari.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. But what about certain technological advancements like airplanes and automobiles?

Prabhupāda: There are subtler aeroplanes. Aeroplane is mentioned in the śāstras. Now they are working on machine, but there are aeroplanes which can work on mantra.

Rāmeśvara: But that science is lost.

Prabhupāda: Not lost. It is there.

Hari-śauri: It's hidden.

Rāmeśvara: We can't practice that.

Prabhupāda: No, we can practice what is called ākāśa paṭala. This book is there in Germany. It was purchased by the Germans.

Rāmeśvara: But do you think that the Vedic sciences will be revived as our movement becomes...

Prabhupāda: No, no, our main purpose is to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In favor of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever is available, beneficial, we shall adopt.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And what is the wrong with the primitive?

Satsvarūpa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...

Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?

Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.

Prabhupāda: So what is benefit of motorcar?

Satsvarūpa: No benefit.

Prabhupāda: Motorcar benefit means you have to start big, big industries and neglect farming.

Gurukṛpa: In America they can say, "We have enough food. We have no shortage."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. In Los Angeles. They have only for boys, young men, age seventeen, sixteen, eighteen, nine... Their parents take them, and they let them out of the car, and they pick them up later on in the night.

Prabhupāda: Advancement.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. Advancement of the pig.

Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.

Gurukṛpā: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about a man who becomes very educated but he can't get a job. He becomes like a dog. Well, I was reading in the paper that this one man in Sydney, he put an ad in the newspaper saying, "I will become your house dog, because I think a dog's life is better than my life because I cannot get a job. So now I want to have a job as a human dog. Anybody want to hire me?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If these people are making against our movement, so we should not be surprised. The parents who are leaving their children, dropping their children—"Yes, go and have homosex dancing"—if such parents protest against our movement it is not at all astonishing. But we should not stop it for that reason. This is apparent. So this thing should be brought in the court, that "This is the parent. The parent also requires this brainwash. Why the sons and daughters only? The father, mother..."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Dependency, that is... We are practiced. Suppose you have given this motorcar, but it doesn't mean that if there is no motorcar my Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be checked. If there is little facility, we can take it. That is another thing. But it is not that because there is no motorcar, then there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not like that. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any impediment. That cannot be checked. So we are not dependent. But to make the best use of a bad bargain. If we get some facility, why we should not take? We are not so fool. If I get a motorcar to go somewhere, why shall I walk? That is another foolishness. But we are not dependent on the motor... "Because there is no motorcar, therefore my Kṛṣṇa consciousness stopped." We are not such fools. The motorcar is available; all right, take advantage of it. We don't decline to accept whatever little material facilities are there. That is not foolish... That is foolishness. We can take advantage. But our main business is how to make advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that we are suffering in this material world, and because we have got this motorcar, therefore our suffering is now ended. We are not so fool. We can take advantage of the motorcar, but we don't take that this is the solution. We are not so fool. But these rascals, they are taking, "This is the solution." That is not possible. That is called durāśaya. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that "Material adjustment, we shall be happy." That is durāśaya. It will never be fulfilled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Unless we go back home, back to Godhead, there is no solution. This is not solution. This is durāśaya. Everything is described. Durāśaya means the hope which will never be successful. So these rascals, they are trying to be happy by so-called scientific advancement. That is durāśaya. That's not possible, hopeless.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: When we just drove down the road just now, when we went past, we saw some people holding a woman, and she was screaming and foaming at the mouth. Just further down the road there was the body of her husband on the road. He'd been squashed flat by a truck, and the body was still there. And the head... Head and arms...

Prabhupāda: Only danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step, simply danger, and we are proud of our scientific advancement. The aeroplane is scientific advancement, but the danger is also more. As soon as you crash, all are altogether... Without an aeroplane one or two men could die, but because you have made this scientific advancement, you all die.

Hari-śauri: Hundred at a time. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Hundred.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Together.

Prabhupāda: This is your advancement. (laughs) Every line of action you see, you have created greatest danger. No solution. Solution is not there, but you have created greater danger. That is your credit.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was very impressed. He can become life member. Very, very nice man. Very old. And he said his children are in United States and he has everything he has. He's very rich also.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you ask him to come? He's rich. Ask him to come, live with us in Māyāpura, and rest of the life let him become happy. Why he's after money?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future. We'll do." These are the business of the fools and rascals, not intelligent, which will never be successful. Durāśaya. But they'll stick to that false hope. Kṛṣṇa yei, bhaje sei baḍa catura: "One who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very intelligent." Actually that is the fact. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). All the... There are many rascals, and they are under the laws of nature wandering in this material world in different forms of life. So out of many such millions and millions, if one is fortunate, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja: (CC Madhya 19.151) he enters into Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yugadharma: In this way I will help supply the temple with lakṣmī. And this way will be first-class. Also, if next time you are in California, if you decide to come to Laguna Beach, we have a present for you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if I go, I will...

Yugadharma: So this is good. Now I have some service.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are seeking for service. That is your advancement. Kṛṣṇa is gracing you. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). The more we become inclined to render service we become advanced. You have seen our Bombay branch?

Yugadharma: No.

Prabhupāda: No. Not yet. Vṛndāvana you have been. And Māyāpura?

Yugadharma: Māyāpura, yes. I have family. I have one wife and two children, two daughters there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, where?

Yugadharma: In Māyāpura.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Yugadharma: They are very nice. They are very excited. In Vṛndāvana I was walking with my daughter on Raman Reti, and she was saying... She is four years old. Her name is Yaśodā. She gave herself the name.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now I have advised the books in the schools, colleges, our Hindi, Bengali, English, we can push in every school. I was instructing...

Devotee: Māyāpura town?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, all over the world. It will be a revolution from godlessness to understanding of God. That is wanted. Otherwise the whole human society is suffering. Harāv abhaktasya kuto. This advancement of so-called education has no value. It is very risky. They do not know how the nature's law is working. Rascals. They are taking this short duration of life, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43), making big, big plans, forgetting they're completely under the control of nature. A very risky civilization. A living being gets the opportunity to understand all the secrets of nature's path, but he's denied the opportunity. Very dangerous He's thinking like animal. Eating, sleeping, that's all. And big, big educationist and in... Like Professor Kotofsky, he said, "Swamijī, after this body is finished, everything (is finished.)" Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No intelligence. (break)

Prabhupāda: Anyone who has understood the value of Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is saved. But we should not simply keep ourselves saved. We should think for others. That is para-upakāra. And that you cannot do unless you are in the safe position. Janma sārthaka kari'. If you become polluted, then you cannot do. That is the secret. If you are not polluted, then you can do. Otherwise it will be show only, no effect. This is the secret. Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). So, things are very easy, not at all difficult. If you follow, then you can do good to others.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no. "To protect the Human Rights." Keep this name. What is human right? That we can explain. The human right is: here is an opportunity to understand God. So this society is giving that knowledge. If you don't give the human being the right of understanding God, then he's animal. You keep him as animal. The animal doesn't require, neither it is capable of understanding what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is his duty. He cannot understand. It is the only human being who can understand. And if you keep him in ignorance like dogs and hogs, that's a great harm to the human society. He got the opportunity. You don't give him; you withdraw the opportunity. What kind of civilization? By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?" If you do not understand this problem, then what is the value of this human life. Eating, sleeping, mating—that is done by the animals. And this modern civilization, keeping them in ignorance, that "Eating, sleeping, better style of eating, and that is advancement. And that is also not better style. Eating meat, keeping slaughterhouse—is that better style of eating?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animal living.

Prabhupāda: The tigers also do that. But you say, "Oh, we have got machine, cunning, (while the) tiger has to fight." This is their advancement of civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bigger animals.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was an underlying question of whether the magazine... Brahmānanda Mahārāja had mentioned that your original idea was that this magazine was meant for the devotees to write into the magazine and the spiritual master would read the articles and thus see how the devotees were making advancement, and the magazine was for the devotees to read each other's articles. Generally how the one..., the kind of the present-day idea behind the magazine is that it is for the common man outside. It is not so much for the devotee as much as for the karmīs. And therefore...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the purpose? To distribute to the karmīs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The purpose is to somehow connect the karmīs and give them a favorable opinion of our society, a general idea and favorable opinion of our movement. But the criticism on the part of some of the senior devotees now is that in doing this they have compromised our philosophy and our position.

Brahmānanda: Instead of quoting from some śāstra, they quote from a mundane book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the books. There's no more Sanskrit used.

Prabhupāda: So who has done this? You are asking me?

Brahmānanda: Rāmeśvara Swami's in charge.

Hari-śauri: Another example's like that they put a recipe for halavā in the magazine, two-page spread in color.

Prabhupāda: So the Rāmeśvara should not be in charge. The Satsvarūpa should be in charge.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it simplified. At the present moment, especially in the Western countries, it is not possible to follow very elaborate program, but what I have given already, that is sufficient, six times worshiping, ārati, just like here going on, just like the same program. Not to make it difficult thing, because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, more difficulties are coming. So simple, things should be simplified. That is wanted. (break) Go on preaching from one place to another, another place. Mahā-vicalanam. Mahātmās should walk. Vicalanam, "movement." Just like I was in Vṛndāvana. If I had not moved, then this movement would not have been started. Because I moved at the age of seventy years, something is now tangible. So similarly, every sannyāsī should move from place to place. Parivrājakācārya, that is... Ācārya means teacher, and parivrāja, movement. Bhavānanda Mahārāja has become very popular in Bengal. You can move from village to village. People will like you. You can speak little Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Little bit.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Bhavānanda: Just ek arci.

Prabhupāda: Tomār kāmanā āche? (laughter) That's... Āmi bāṅgalā boli nā, "I can't speak Bengali very well," bolete pari nā. They like it, to hear. There is nothing new. If you simply... You can read Bengali also?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We shall train them. Military march, Manipur. Slogan: "Jaya Rādhe! Jaya Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Babhruvāhana! Jaya Arjuna!" And then let us go. We shall organize Bombay headquarter, Manipur Vaiṣṇava state, send missionary all over the world, bona fide, scientific system of religion, ideal character. Ideal character. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). That we have to show. "Here is the sum total of all good qualities." That we have to show. We haven't got to go anywhere. Knowledge, good quality, happiness, advancement of life, everything complete. So let us go to Manipur. Arrange for that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So should we arrange for this April 5th, 4th, around that time, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: April 5th. No harm. We are... Kodaikanal, we wanted to go by the end of the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wanted to go... Bombay pandal ends about the 30th.

Prabhupāda: Thirtieth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that means there's still about another week until the 5th. March has thirty-one days. So there'll still be another week. And then there's a week in between Bombay and Kodaikanal. Kodaikanal(?) by 15th.

Prabhupāda: Fifteenth or later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That can be later. At least by 15th, 20th, like that.

Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to stay in Bombay, stay until the... Is there any date until?

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Subdued. So then there is no chance. Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas:(?) "If you want to bend this bamboo, when it is green, you can do it. And if it is yellow, can't. It will break." Tas, tas. This is Bengali. If you take one yellow bamboo, to bend it, it will crack and make sound, "Tas, tas." But when it is green, you can bend it. Kancai no wale paca means green. (Bengali) Kancai no wale basa mas korbe tas tas.(?) First human civilization begins when you restrain the children not to become restless. This is the training. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. This training is lacking. Therefore even in old age, the washerman business. I am bodily conscious, and I am training others also to become bodily conscious: "You feel like Indian," "You feel like American," "You feel like Englishman." This is education, the same dehātma-buddhi, that "I am this body," extended. The extended feeling of bodily consciousness, is that advancement? Is that advancement? The bodily consciousness is animalism. (aside:) Why you are taking? Huh? No, no. You keep it.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, it's your pāni. Devotee has put here.

Prabhupāda: You keep that glass here. What is that? Devotee has...?

Guest (1): It's already open.

Prabhupāda: Ḍāb water? Oh. Here is not ḍāb water? This is ḍāb water.

Devotee (1): It's already opened, this ḍāb.

Prabhupāda: So we shall take it. This is Vedic civilization, that train the children how to become restrained, subdued, from the very beginning. Then he will take other education.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic. Is that logic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Logical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't know what the meaning of logic is.

Prabhupāda: Orphan. Orphan means, does it, he has no father? He does not know who is his father.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orphan means doesn't know.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Hari-śauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Hari-śauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what materialistic advancement they have done?

Dr. Sharma: No thing.

Prabhupāda: Now in our childhood, when we were ten-years-old boy, my father used to purchase high kilo saraṣera tela, for eight annas. Can these rascals do to that standard? Eight annas, first-class Kanpur mustard oil. Now that oil... Not that quality oil, still, they are being sold thirteen rupees per kilo, instead of three annas.

Dr. Sharma: They were always, even in a small village, there were five or ten good people were to do the kīrtana. You know, they had a knack of one particular instrument, they could get up and all on the Janmāṣṭamī and so many festivals they used to have kīrtana. And all, you know, small village, even nook and corner of the country, bubbling with life, religious life. This is only twenty-five years ago, even thirty years ago it was there. And look now...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is better late than never. (Hindi) We are sending our men from village to village. Not only here, also in the European countries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of our basic points is that we are not this body but we are actually soul. So I would wonder how Dr. Sharma, he is a specialist in, I think, cardiology...

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is that picture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "Handicapped though, these foursome make a cheerful group as they paddle along on three wheelers every day from their homes in the King George Memorial Infirmary on Jagtap Marga, Maha-Lakshmi." Some invalids. "Mr. Jaya Prakash Narayan in a statement on Sunday came out strongly against the attempts of some people to lobby through him for personal favors and advancements from the Janata party government center." He doesn't like it. Everyone is going to him now. (pause) "The aim and object of the 42nd constitutional amendment was stated to be to establish the supremacy of the legislature, but in fact it was designed to establish the absolute authority of the executive as personified by the Prime Minister, according to Mr. C. K. Dapteri, former attorney general of India. Mr. Dapteri said, 'Everyone knows that misuse to which the power of preventative detention has been put in the last eighteen months. It is not necessary to recall or relay instances. But the power itself is so easily capable of being put to wrong use that it is unsafe to leave it in the hands of the executive government.' "

Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I am realizing, that Kṛṣṇa pushed, dragged me through all circumstances, that "These are useless." Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukha... That is required. Just like Jagāi and Mādhāi. They were made to promise, "No more." "Yes sir, no more." "Then I accept you. That's all right." "No." And they made it, kept their promise. They became faithful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you also demand of us that promise. "Now whatever you have done, never mind, but no more. Follow these four principles." That means if the devotees don't follow, then they will not make advancement.

Prabhupāda: They are breaking their promise. Before accepting them, I make him promise. They promise it. If they break, what can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the connection, the contract is finished.

Prabhupāda: This should be the principle. "No more this." Then he becomes fit. Āra nahe vākya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore accepting initiation is a serious matter.

Prabhupāda: Initiation means seriously take up the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vow.

Prabhupāda: And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what way does the spiritual master become...?

Prabhupāda: Well, this is then something.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to work very hard on behalf of the disciple...

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Without coeducation there is no college.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In American universities they have co-living. The bathrooms are the same bathroom now. They don't even have men's bathroom and women's toilet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's considered advancement, to come to the point of being animals here.

Prabhupāda: So our gurukula should be ideal. Not all these boys... You should take care of these things from the very beginning—if you want actually spiritual life. If you want to progress like animals, that is different thing, as the whole world is doing. We want to maintain an ideal institution. People may see. In Christian idea also, the nuns were separate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays the nuns, every... Twice a week they get their hair set. They wear miniskirt now.

Prabhupāda: And so many scandal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not strict anymore. Priests are smoking cigarettes, watching television.

Prabhupāda: If there is no training, naturally it will deteriorate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Pradyumna:

kleso 'dhikataras teṣām

avyaktāsakta-cetasām

avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ

dehavadbhir avāpyate

(BG 12.5)

"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse. They'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service of the Lord are called (sic:) bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mail boxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Sita Ram Singh: Quite.

Prabhupāda: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty-seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man, so a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drum, will this...? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first-class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser.

Sita Ram Singh: And now it has gone to ten rupees.

Prabhupāda: No, thirteen rupees.

Sita Ram Singh: Thirteen rupees in our time.

Prabhupāda: Ghee, first-class ghee, we were purchasing, one rupee, Vardwa(?) ghee. Now what is the price of ghee?

Indian man (1): Twenty-five.

Sita Ram Singh: Twenty rupees.

Indian man (1): Twenty, twenty-five. Between twenty and twenty-five, depending upon the place.

Prabhupāda: That means between twenty-five to thirty times, the price has increased. But income has not increased.

Indian man (1): Not in the real sense.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stop change of the body. We are trying to follow this culture. They say, "It is impossible." So what is their knowledge of? Why the scientists cannot at least stop change of body? Young man... When I was young man, sir, stout and strong, then people came here. Now, on account of change of body, I am now invalid. Why the scientists cannot stop this? This is change of body. Simply bluff. They are big man amongst the rascals. They have not contributed anything. They say, "Change of body cannot be done"? What do they say? A young man is becoming old man. This is not change of body? Either stop this... And accept, soul is eternal; body is changing. What you can do? You cannot stop the change. Young man became old man. Or accept it is change of body.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do. Karmīs do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kāṇḍa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). By improving the sattva-guṇa, you can go to higher planetary system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It's not enough."

Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satisfaction of the soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda just mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the Adhokṣaje.

Prabhupāda: Adhokṣaje. Yato bhaktiḥ. When you become a devotee, then you'll go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is required.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your purports have such wonderful realization. They are completely nectar to read and hear.

Prabhupāda: That I say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today the one question was asked in the class that "Isn't it true that as one makes advancement, māyā will put up so many obstructions, even more as the devotee advances?" So I answered by saying that "In the case of a pure devotee, māyā realizes that there is no need to challenge, because māyā is the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So when someone is fully devoted, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda, then māyā cannot touch, and she knows that he will use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, so there is no need to put up any obstacle, and all facilities are given to the pure devotee for using everything in Kṛṣṇa's service."

Prabhupāda: So I can stop?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gurukula boys are waiting to greet you with kīrtana. They can come in?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Anyway, don't be sorry.

Vrindavan De: No, no. It will be (Bengali).

Prabhupāda: So what you have paid for you coming and going? What is the amount?

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the Mathurā station?

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sanskrit is given. It's very nice. "Spiritual Psychology: Going Beyond the Sex Impulse."

Prabhupāda: They printed in their own press.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Very good advancement. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Āśrama Stems." It's describing the construction of your palace. And here's a picture of the two śālagrāmas which they now worship. Look how elaborate!

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī Hiraṇyagarbha and Śrī Sudarśana in jeweled thrones. This is making the top of the domes. On your Palace there's... The top domes have lotus petals coming under them. So over that will go the domes. This is very big. The devotees are making the whole thing themselves. This shows devotees. See, this is a form, and into this form they'll pour concrete and other things and make shapes like these lotus petals. It's all hand done. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." This is pictures of saṅkīrtana in Pittsburgh and Wheeling, West Virginia. "Iṣṭagoṣṭhi: Questions and answers discussed between His Holiness Kīrtanānanda Swami and members and guests of New Vrindaban." "Cow-Kathā." (laughter) Like kṛṣṇa-kathā, cow-kathā. "Seeking Refuge from the Kali-yuga." This is from your old Back to Godheads. I remember in the first printings in America this appeared-Nārada-Bhakti-Sūtra. This boy writes an article every week—"Deep in the Woods." He's the woodman there, wood cutter. He tells about different... He relates it to the śāstra. "Color photographs available of Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra." They send it in the mail, "Non-profit organization, US Postage Paid." So it goes in the mail just like this. Very nice. I think it's time for your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I'll take.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Neither he has any philosophy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. None at all.

Mr. Myer: Actually South is full of it. They have got a Theosophical Society, there's the Aurobindo Society, there is the J. Krishnamurti Trust. Many, many things are there. But each one of it is just a very shallow... J. Krishnamurti has never written a book himself. Always another person writes about him, his thoughts, his speeches. So only thing is that they started many, many years ago, fifty years ago. So they have bought some piece of land and started some schools, and like that they have created some systems. But basically it's very difficult. One cannot make any advancement with such people. But all, everywhere in India today tendency is people just go and ask for some personal gain. In Tirupati people go there, they say "If I get a son, I will come and pay some money." And some people say, "If my husband gets all right, I will come and do something." Some women go there, they just take off all their diamond necklaces and pour it. In one day they will sometimes collect a crore of rupees. It's unbelievable. So that is the type attitude people developed. Then that legend also says Lord Viṣṇu married, and for a marriage He has taken a big loan. So whosoever is helping Him to repay it, he gets a good from the...

Prabhupāda: Lord Viṣṇu. Who is that?

Mr. Myer: Lord Veṅkateśvara. That is one insult. They say that for a marriage He has taken so much money, and He's to pay back...

Prabhupāda: A person, man? A man has said?

Mr. Myer: It is a form of Viṣṇu. They call it Veṅkateśa-jī.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced. The weaver will get, the potter will get, the blacksmith will get, the brāhmaṇa is already there, kṣatriya will get—everyone. For them, lower-class men, demigod worship. At least they are accepting there is some higher authority. Among the blacksmith there is viśvakarma-pūjā. One day they will wash all the instruments of blacksmith. Somehow or other, all are cleaned. And with the fruit, with flower, candana, they'll worship.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless these things are continued, the karmīs' poison will spoil them. He can do independent business; there is no harm. But must be connected with the devotional service.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Just like Abhirāma constructed that house. That's all right. He is within the campus. There is no harm. And now if he goes away after so much training, advancement, if they are lost, then that's a great loss for the Society. With such... With great difficulty we make one Vaiṣṇava. And again, if he goes like Śyāmasundara, then it is great loss. The whole idea is to give up attachment for material world and increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Now, according to one's position, gradually... But this is the aim. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). Nivṛtti.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think Abhirāma has any intention of going away.

Prabhupāda: No, he has no intention, but he lives apart from temple connection...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he will go away automatically.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's not possible, then, for him to go to Bangalore, 'cause we have no center in Bangalore.

Prabhupāda: So he wants to organize a center there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he was thinking of organizing business.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can be allowed to do so because he is not civilized. But you are civilized, and you are committing great sinful activities by maintaining slaughterhouse. You are such a rascal. And because you are godless, you do not know that you will suffer for these sinful activities. That is the proof of existence of soul.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "This has happened by man's technology and not by the help of any God or knowledge obtained from any scripture. Advancement in medical science and social welfare services are helping more and more misfits..."

Prabhupāda: What social welfare?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...to survive to procreate more and more misfits as future citizens."

Prabhupāda: No, what social welfare you have done? You have opened so many hospitals, but does it mean you can give life?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, this is a real... Here's what he says. He says, "Advancement in medical science and social welfare..."

Prabhupāda: What is the advancement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to explain it. "...and social welfare services are helping more and more misfits to survive to procreate more and more misfits as future citizens. While the short-term goal is achieved, the long-term goal is jeopardized. Future governments are not going to allow all the misfits to procreate misfit children on the ground that life originates from the Supreme Soul. It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature."

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "First point: To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to the residents and the visitors of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Second point: To propagate the consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and to propagate that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, as is revealed in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and the Caitanya Bhāgavata. 3) To bring all the members of ā together nearer to Lord Caitanya and thus develop within humanity at large that each soul is a part and parcel of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. 4) To teach and encourage the saṅkīrtana movement of congregational chanting of the holy names of God given in the teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. 5) To erect temples, schools, colleges, universities, institutes of higher studies, hospitals and other buildings with or for the advancement of the objects of the Trust and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. 6) In keeping with the spirit of the previous ācārya's vision of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda and Śrīla Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous ācāryas in this line. 7) With a view to achieving the aforementioned purposes and to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, and other books and other items. 8) To do all such other things for the attainment of the objects of the Trust. 9) Trustee members are appointed lifetime. The members should always be seven. 10) A meeting once a year at Śrīdhāma Māyāpura during Gaura-Pūrṇimā. 11) There should be a chairman, a treasurer, and a secretary elected each year. 12) A quorum of at least five members." Finishes.