Prabhupāda: We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body... I call myself an American or Indian... (coughs) (aside:) Water. Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American, but if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving. Yes. Then I am calling you as my son. You are calling him as your son, but what he is? He is a product of your body. So if you are not this body, how he is your son? In this way you go on. As soon as you study nicely that you are not this body, you will find that you belong to none of these. You are free. You see? This is called Brahman realization, spiritual realization, this stage, when you understand that "I am not this body. I do not belong to this country. I do not belong to this family. I do not belong to this society." This is negative. Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified. That means if I am not this, then I am this. That we do not know, what is that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
What I am? (Conversations 1968 - 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gargamuni: What is the perfection of this life?
Prabhupāda: The perfection of this life is to understand oneself, what I am. This is the beginning. Why I am suffering? If there is any solution of this suffering? And there are so many things. These questions should be there. Unless a man is awakened to these questions, that "What I am? Why I am suffering? Wherefrom I have come, and where I have to go?" then he's considered on the animal level. Because animals, they have no such questions. It is in the human form of life these questions are there. And their answers are all there in the scriptures. So if we are inquisitive and follow the answers from authoritative sources, then the solution of life is there.
Caller: Yes. Swami, you say you have to know yourself. Now, how does a person go about knowing when he knows himself, who he is and what he is. In other words, when does he reach the stage where he says, "Hah! I know where I am and what I am."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two different processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is to research oneself by his own endeavor, by his limited sense speculation. And another process is to know from the authority. Just like deductive process, we say, man is mortal. This knowledge is received from higher authorities, just like our teacher or parents, we understand that man is mortal. Another process is one can make research whether actually man is mortal.
Caller: Well, is there some kind of a spiritual signal you get within yourself that tells you this?
Prabhupāda: No, your question is what I am? So this what I am, you can search yourself by your mental speculation, that is one way. Another way to understand your position, from higher authority. So we take this process. We understand what I am from higher authority, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that He is God, and He says, "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So we are component parts of the Supreme Lord. Therefore as the component part of machine is to cooperate with the full machine, so our duty is to cooperate with the Supreme Lord. That is our identity.
Interviewer: Caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami.
Caller (woman): Ah, yeah. I'm not involved with it, but I'm curious. I'm wondering if there's any similarity between meditation and hypnosis? In other words, the hypnotic state?
Interviewer: Or is meditation self-hypnosis? Is that what you're asking?
Caller: Is it similar? It sounds like it might be.
Interviewer: Swami?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is self-hypnosis.
Interviewer: Hypnotizing yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, it is no question of hypnotizing. Meditation means to search out what I am. Just like if you sit down quietly, if you see your body, first of all see your finger, and question whether I am hand? You'll say, no. Whether I am this head? You'll say no. Whether I am this leg? Because everywhere I will say, "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my sole." Everything "my." So you have to find out what is "I."
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So now people do not wish to consider also this point, that "If I am eternal, if I am changing my place, my dress, my occupation every fifty years or ten years or twelve years according to the dress..." The cats and dogs, they live for ten years. The cows live for twenty years, and the man lives for, say, hundred years. Trees lives for thousands years. But everyone has to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we have to change our old dress, similarly, this body has to be changed. And we are changing. Changing every moment. That is a fact. This boy will grow also some day like you, like me. This body will not stay. I had a body like this, say, fifty years ago or sixty years ago, but that body is now missing. I have got a different body. So everyone is changing body in this way. We do not know where that body gone, but ultimately also, we shall change, and we shall enter another body, and again we have to begin new set of work, leaving all aside. Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). People are not very serious. They're so much in ignorance that they: "All right, let it happen, whatever may happen. We may enjoy life." But this is not very good position. One should be, at least in human form of life, one should be very sober, considerate (of) what is happening. So out of many fruitive workers like this, one becomes wise: "Why I am doing this?" This is wisdom. That is the platform of knowledge, to inquire that "What is my position? What I am? What is my aim of life?" That is the position of the jṇānī, persons who are wise. And one, when one is fully wise, then bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births, when one becomes fully wise, bahunam janmanam ante jñānavān, when he's actually wise, jñānavān, then māṁ prapadyate, Kṛṣṇa says, "He comes and surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
So anyone who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gītā. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?
Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the test, whether he has understood. In the Seventh Chapter,
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
"Anyone... How one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me," mayy āsakta, "with āsakti..." Āsakti means attachment, love. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ. Mind attached to Kṛṣṇa in love. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. And performing the bhakti-yoga, mad-āśrayaḥ, under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ: "Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am." That means one who has not understood Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the yoga properly. And why? That is mad-āśrayaḥ, he does not follow the disciplic succession. Mad āśrayaḥ. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone... We say... It may appear to be very strong word but that's a fact. (Hindi) That's a strong word, that's all right, but he's a chor. (Hindi) Strong language used here... (Hindi)
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight a little bit later to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit... I have not read much, of course, but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings, your magazines, your publications...
Prabhupāda: I may correct here that it is not my belief.
Interviewer: Well, as you interpret it in your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me, sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...
Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.
Interviewer: Yes but more emphasis on that relationship than on the relationship between one individual and another individual. Am I right in that?
Prabhupāda: No. We have to establish first of all our lost relationship with God. You see? Then we can understand what is the relationship between one individual to another. If the central point is missing, then there is practically no relationship. Just like you are American. Another is American. Both of you, you feel American nationally because the center is America. So unless you understand God, you cannot understand what I am, neither I can understand what you are. So we have to first of all reestablish our lost relationship with God; then we can establish, talk of universal brotherhood. Otherwise there will be discrimination. Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect knowledge. There is no God consciousness. Therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Only intelligent person can understand. If you can understand, then you are intelligent. Are you understanding or not?
Yadubara: No. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Then why you are not understanding yet? We have given free scope. What is your reason of not understanding?
Yadubara: I think I understand a little bit, gradually.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even if you understand little bit, that will give you great benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato. If you understand little, that means your door is open. Just like sometimes there is boil. If little mouth is open, that means that is the beginning of oozing out all the pus. It will gradually open, and that is the natural venue. Open and it will be cured. So little understanding is also very good. Then you will understand further. What you have understood now?
Yadubara: What have I understood? I understand that the chant has potency, has some meaning for me. And I understand on the basis of what I've done before, on the basis of my experience, what I've seen around me, I've seen that conditions are not good. And I've seen the conditions in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are much better and the feeling is much better.
Prabhupāda: That is very good sign. Yes.
Yadubara: So I think it must have some worth. There must be something here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can discuss with these boys and girls. Try to understand. Here there is nothing dogmatic. Even something appears to be dogmatic, it is not dogmatic.
Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, if we just associate long enough, then it will act upon you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box. (break)
Śyāmasundara: The more scientists investigate the workings of nature, the more complicated it becomes. They can never understand it.
Prabhupāda: No.
Śyāmasundara: They think it's complicated, but still...
Prabhupāda: Not complicated, it is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand.
Śyāmasundara: It becomes more complex.
Prabhupāda: Just like any ordinary man, how this tape recorder is working? There is a process. But because we have no brain, we think "How it has become? How it has become?"
Śyāmasundara: It's so complex to us.
Prabhupāda: So one who does not know, it is complex. One who is in knowledge, for him it is not complex. Therefore, Bhāgavata says anvayād vitarekabhyam(?). Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is completely well versed. Kṛṣṇa just like says, "Yes, I spoke this philosophy millions of years. I remember; you have forgot." There we have to study, how Kṛṣṇa's brain is. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Yes, I spoke." When Arjuna defied, "How can I believe that You spoke millions of years ago this philosophy to sun-god?" "Yes, that's a fact. You also were there. But I remember, you don't remember." The child, just like father says, "My dear child, when you were two years old you fell down and there was a fracture in your brain." "Yes?" He cannot remember. The father can say, "Yes, it happened. You have forgotten. I remember." This is practical. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can remember everything, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). You may not remember. You have no such brain, you are teeny. But why should you defy Kṛṣṇa? Why should you deny the facility for Kṛṣṇa? That means you are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, He is like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Because you are rascal, you are thinking Kṛṣṇa is like another rascal like you. That is poor fund of knowledge. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). "Because they do not know, rascal, what I am, what I can do," avajānanti, "they think, 'Kṛṣṇa is like me.' "
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmaṇa or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says, "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By forgetting my real relationship, I tend to rule over the laws of material nature.
Prabhupāda: That I am struggling. That is my business here. I am simply struggling. Laws of nature is obstructing my process of enjoyment, and I want to enjoy. Why this position? We inquire these intelligent questions. What they are inquiring? They do not know what to inquire.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Fools. Animals.
Brahmānanda: Sanātana Gosvāmī also asked that question to Caitanya Mahāprabhu...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is the question of human life, that: "I want to enjoy. Why there is obstruction of my enjoyment?" Then the next question will be then what I am and what is this nature? These are intelligent questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? These are very minor questions. They are questions for animals. For the human being, this is the question, that "I want to enjoy life. Why there are so many obstructions?" This is human question. The animals, they do not question. They submit. Just like when you slay one animal, it submits. But a human being, there is law because human being is intelligent. So you cannot kill any other human being, you cannot murder. Then you'll be hanged. But they cannot make law. They're lower grade animals. They submit, somebody killing. But the objection is there, both by the human beings and the animals, that the: "Why you are killing me?" But he's helpless. The man has invented some means. So they have made their laws. But both of them are objecting. In your, in America somewhere, when I first came, there was some incidence that in a live store, they got some opportunity to flee away. Then all the cows were fleeing away. And they were shot down. They were stopped. They knew that: "We are stocked here for being killed." So they got some opportunity, going away. And there is always miserable condition. Just like why you have covered so much? Why you have spent for covering? This is also miserable condition. Miserable condition. In some other place, they are...
Prabhupāda: A neophyte or anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. There is no question of enjoyment. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. But he takes the suffering as enjoyment. That is māyā. That is māyā. Just like in your country, they are working day and night. Just like from the morning, gugugugugugugugugu (makes noise of machine that is on nearby) They are suffering, but the people are coming, enjoying golf. That is suffering only. From the morning, going here, is it not suffering? (laughter) But he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is māyā.
Umāpati: Just like the doctor's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is māyā. He is suffering, but he's thinking I am enjoying. So any conditioned soul, he doesn't enjoy anything. He simply suffers. But he thinks that he is enjoying. Therefore the camel, camel example is given. Camel example. Camel, he is eating his own blood, eating thorns, and the thorns cutting the tongue, and from the tongue, blood is oozing out. So when the blood is mixed up with the thorny twigs, it becomes little tasteful, and he is thinking "Oh, it is very nice." Similarly, all these gṛhasthas, enjoying sex life, he is discharging his own blood, he's becoming weaker and weaker, he is thinking, "I am enjoying." He is thinking, "I am enjoying." And if he uses more, then he becomes diseased, tuberculosis. He is dying by that process, but he's thinking, "I am enjoying." Therefore it is example for the camel. He is enjoying his own blood by discharging. One drop of semen is made out of so many drops of blood. Do you know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Forty drops.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And how many, how much drops of semen he is discharging... That means he's spoiling his blood. But he is thinking, "I am enjoying." Would you like to, by giving your blood to enjoy? Would you like?
Umāpati: No, I don't think I'd like.
Prabhupāda: But you are doing that, every night. And that is called māyā.
Umāpati: I'm a brahmacārī, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, you are...(laughter) I am giving an example. This is going on. He is going to die. He has adopted a process by which he will die, and he thinks that he is enjoying. This is called māyā. Māyā means things which is not, māyā. Mā means not, yā means this. "What you are thinking, it is not that." That is called māyā. So they are in māyā means, they are thinking, these rascals, they are thinking, improving, becoming happy, advancing this māyā word will finish everything, mā, yā: "Not this." Bhāgavata says that "You are thinking you are becoming victorious, but you are being defeated." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. These rascal, abodha-jātaḥ, born fools and rascal, they are becoming defeated in every step. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire about his self, "What I am," he is simply being defeated. That's all. This is the verdict.
David Wynne: And George now has gained enormously in spiritual steps.
Prabhupāda: He's a very intelligent boy.
David Wynne: Oh yes. But he now is wise as well as just clever.
Prabhupāda: He's fortunate.
David Wynne: And so, from this I think...
Prabhupāda: No. Śyāmasundara has tried his utmost to convince him about Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: He said, "Other religions... (break) ...come for a short time." (Breaks in tape)
Prabhupāda: Give him little, some more purīs.
David Wynne: No, I'm all right, really. I'm doing very well.
Śyāmasundara: ...and something to wash hands in. (door closes)
Prabhupāda: No, he's bringing. You can take.
Śyāmasundara: David has said that he would like to spend some time, a day or something, making also your form into stone. Is that...? Or into some metal. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Well, what I am? I am insignificant. I have no objection. Our, some of our artists may paint this picture. I liked it very much. (Probably speaking of picture of Ratha cart in the Guardian newspaper)
Śyāmasundara: It's a very good photo.
Mukunda: It was taken in such a way so that the cart looks like it is almost as tall as Nelson's Column. Fish-eye lens.
Śyāmasundara: Very clever person who has thought up this idea.
Guest (5): (Sanskrit:) Viśvambhara para dṛśyamānaṁ nagarī tulyāṁ na janāntara-gataṁ, paśyam ātmani māyayā bahir ivodbhuḥataṁ yathā nidrayā, yaḥ sākṣād kurute prabodha sameya svātman eva advayam, tasmai śrī guru-mūrtyenam etaṁ śrī taksna mūrtaye.(?)
Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).
Prabhupāda: Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence, I think.
Prabhupāda: What is that higher intelligence?
Guest (1): Speech and ability to compute what you hear.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.
Guest (2): The consciousness is...
Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there.
Prabhupāda: Suppose just like I tell you that a dog is your servant. It is standing on the door. Some thief is coming. If the dog becomes angry, "Baw! Gaw! Gow!" so that, to become angry is not bad for the dog...
Father Tanner: No.
Prabhupāda: ...because he's serving the master. So similarly, if you are fixed-up in your business as servant of the Lord, so even if you become angry for Lord's service, that is not bad.
Father Tanner: But you..., the dog might bite his master.
Prabhupāda: No.
Father Tanner: Yes, he can.
Prabhupāda: I don't think a... Anyway, that is dog. I... That's a crude example. But a spirit soul, when he's fixed-up in the service of the Lord, he does not bite his master. (laughter) He does not... He only serves. So we must know, if I actually love myself, first of all I know what I am. If I know, then I can properly love myself. If I do not know what I am if I think that "I am this body," oh, this conception the dog has also. He's also thinking, "I am this body." To keep this body in fitness, to eat nicely, to sleep nicely, this consciousness is there in cats and dogs. So therefore, as spirit soul, as human being, first of all you know that "Whether I am this body or something else?"
Father Tanner: But you know what you are and what you become. I hate what I am. I want to become something different.
Prabhupāda: No, that is your freedom. You can do.
Father Tanner: Now, this is the same as a material man saying "I want to become spiritual or God conscious or what have you." But, you know, because I want to become this, it doesn't mean that I am this. Because I want to become God's servant, it doesn't mean that I am God's servant.
Prabhupāda: No, you don't, you do not want, you want or not want, that is not the question. First of all you must know what is your real identity. You do not want and do want, that independence you have got always. That is a different thing. But first of all you must know what is your identity. Your identity is... That I have already explained. The... You are part and parcel of God. So far we understand, our philosophy is... From the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśaḥ. The whole thing is one unity, unit, and everything is part and parcel of God, His energy. So we, the marginal energy, living entities, we are also part and parcel of God. As part and parcel of God, what is my duty? Just like this finger. There is itching. Immediately it comes, serves. (end)
Śyāmasundara: We talked with Professor Zeiner (Zayner?), and he may come. He's trying... He's going to see...
Prabhupāda: That is only interpretation. Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. He is plainly speaking that "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because You are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). So first condition to understand Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about devotion. There is no other talk. There are other talks, but they are subordinate. They are not principal talks. The principal talk is to understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You understand Sanskrit? You...?
David Lawrence: Yes, yes, I'm there.
Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."
Yogeśvara: He says when Moses saw the burning bush and he asked the fire, "Who are you?" The fire said, "I am what I am." "Who I am?" that's a question that you are going to have to answer by your own meditations.
Prabhupāda: But what is his meditation? What he has learned?
Yogeśvara: The thing to realize, which he has realized a little bit, is peace. And when you join up, you get a letter back, and at the bottom of the letter it says "With our best wishes for your peace and happiness."
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. Everyone wants that. But what is the process?
Yogeśvara: ...by praying, courage, by faith. A serious movement, a serious order would never guarantee instantaneous illumination.
Prabhupāda: No, that also we say. But we must have the program. Just like he say that "Who am I?" So at least one must know who he is. If this vague reply is "I am what I am..." If I ask you, "you come," so "Who are you, sir?" then if he says, "I am what I am," is that the proper answer? (laughter) This is nonsense answer. If I ask you, "Who are you?" If he says, "I am what I am," is that the proper answer?
| Page Title: | What I am? (Conversations 1968 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 01 of Jun, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |