Prabhupāda: If you follow the regulative principle and chant with some prescribed number, numerical strength, then your all misgivings will be over automatically. What are these misgivings? The first misgiving is that I am this body. Everyone is under the concept of this body. This is... I am not this body. That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is a very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying, and if we ask "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say, "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say, "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time? So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving. In this way there are so many misgivings. We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body... I call myself an American or Indian... (coughs) (aside:) Water. Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American, but if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving. Yes. Then I am calling you as my son. You are calling him as your son, but what he is? He is a product of your body. So if you are not this body, how he is your son? In this way you go on. As soon as you study nicely that you are not this body, you will find that you belong to none of these. You are free. You see? This is called Brahman realization, spiritual realization
You are not this body (Conv and Letters)
Expressions researched:
"You are not the same body"
|"You are not this material body"
|"You are spirit soul, not this body"
|"you are not body"
|"you are not the body"
|"you are not this body"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example of the elephant.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Takes shower again and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hasti-snāna. Therefore, knowledge giving, that is the beginning of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa gives Arjuna, knowledge giving, that "You are not this body." This is the beginning of knowledge. What is that knowledge, all over the world? Where is that university? This preliminary knowledge which Kṛṣṇa begins, Bhagavad-gītā, where is that university? Svarūpa Dāmodara, where is that chemical laboratory or university?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is none in the universities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is the position of your education. There is no knowledge, and you are simply advertising, "Advancement of knowledge, university, PhD's, Nobel Prize holder." But they are all rascals. Fools' paradise. It is called, fools' paradise.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life he is no better than animal. The cats and dogs, they are also in the bodily concept of life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So he has not advanced beyond these cats and dogs because he is in the same conception, that I am this body. A dog cannot understand that you are not this body. So similarly, if the human being cannot understand that he is not this body, what is the difference between him and the dog?
Prabhupāda: So people are interested in the bodily concept of life. Anything which is immediately pleasing to my senses, we take it, "This is my end of life." Therefore śāstra says, śreya uttamam, not that śreyas which is immediately very pleasing to you. What is immediately pleasing to you, it will be a source of great displeasure at the end. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So uttamam. Uttamam. Ut means transcendental, and tama means this material world. "Beyond this material world," Uttama. Śreya uttamam. Because we are not this material body, therefore our śreyas, our highest perfection of life, is different. Here the perfection of life—you get a comfortable life of the body. That is not possible, however comfortably you may situate. You may be very rich man, you may have very rich connection or good apartment, but still, you cannot be happy because you are not this body. But they do not know. Therefore one should be inquisitiveness that "I want to be happy. I am arranging for my happiness with so many material paraphernalia, but still I am not happy." This inquiry should be there. That is called jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. And that is brahma-jijñāsā.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There is soul within the body. This is Bhagavad-gītā says. Dehino 'smin, asmin dehe. Just like I was a child, I remember; you remember also. So that body is now gone. But I have got a different body, you have got a different body. But I am existing. So I am dehinaḥ, dehī, and my body is deha. So deha-dehī, there must be distinction. The body is not the owner. I am the owner. Just like I am sitting within this room, I am not this room; similarly, I am sitting within this body, you are sitting within your body. So you are not body. This is call illusion.
Satsvarūpa: We have to try to teach everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty because everyone is rascal. So we have to give them knowledge. The first basic principle, knowledge, that "You are not this body." And they will never agree. They will not take this knowledge. They will stick to this principle, "No, I am this body, I am American," I am Indian, I am brāhmaṇa, I am kṣatriya, I am this, I am that." They will stick to that. So as soon as they stick to this principle, they are animals. The dog is also thinking like that. If I say to a dog, "Mr. dog, you are not this body; you are soul," what he will understand? The same position of the so-called human society. If I say that "You are not American; you are not Roman; you are spirit soul," he will not agree. So what is the difference between dog and him? Is there any difference? The dog cannot understand. If I say, "My dear dog, you are not this body; you are spirit soul," he will not be able to understand. And if I say a gentleman, American or Indian or Roman, that "You are not this body," if he cannot understand, then where is the difference between the dog and the man?
Dhanañjaya: No difference.
Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?
Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness.
Professor Durckheim: I would like to say the other way around: As more as you advance in experience, the more you have higher knowledge.
Prabhupāda: But experience, it may be slow. But higher knowledge you can get immediately.
Professor Durckheim: Yes. Like flash.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa says...
Professor Durckheim: When it's awakening.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says that you are not this body. So instead of my experiencing for years and years that "I am not this body," we take the knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect, and my experience is now received.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, I understand.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham.
Prabhupāda: You are thinking of good in terms of your body, but body is false. Therefore the conception of goodness is also false. (German)
Dr. P. J. Saher: I cannot accept that the body is false.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I withdraw that word false. But it is not you. It is false in this sense, that you are accepting this body yourself, but that you are not. (German) Just like...
Dr. P. J. Saher: But I live my identity with the body.
Prabhupāda: With the body. But the body is false, false in this sense, that you are not this body. You are simply... Just like I am occupying this apartment, but I am not this apartment. I am different from this apartment. This is understanding. So if you take interest of the apartment and you forget yourself, that is false. (German) If I simply decorate this body, apartment, and I don't eat myself, then what is the... This is false attempt, that we are trying... This is called. In the Bhāgavata it is said that aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Now, this body, just you or I, everyone, we are nicely dressed. But if the life is gone from the body, if you dress the body, is that very good intelligence? You have understood? That I am dressing, so long my life is there, I am dressing very nicely this body, but when the body is dead, if you dress the body or somebody or your relative dresses nicely, it is very good intelligence?
Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, aren't you presenting Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to time, place, and circumstances?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: So what enables a person to do that?
Prabhupāda: No... But principle is that you try to understand that you are not this body. That is applicable in all time, all circumstances, all, for everyone. It is not that formerly one had to learn that he's not this body, and now that is not required. The same problem is there still. Arjuna, five thousand years ago he was given lesson about this, that "You are not this body; you are soul." The same problem is now also for the foolish person because the foolish person will always remain in the world, and the intelligent man is to teach him. This is fact always, without any consideration of time, space, and circumstance. There will be certain class of men, foolish, and there will be certain class of men who are intelligent. So the foolish man has to take intelligence from the intelligent man. This is perpetually truth in this material world. It is not, time and circumstances changes this principle. There will be foolish men. Just like now we read, "Two classes of men are there always, the demons and the demigods." So at the present moment more demons. Two classes of men are there always, but at the present moment the demons, number of demons, are more and number of demigods are less because it is Kali-yuga.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that because he doesn't know what the transcendence is, there's no value for him. It's only a name. He doesn't know why to look for it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So first of all, as I say, that you are also transcendence, you just try to know yourself first. Then you will know what is transcendence. You are the sample of transcendence, and if you see the sample, you can know the whole thing. Just like if you taste one drop of sea water, then you can understand what is the chemical composition of the sea water. Therefore your first business is to know yourself, that you are not this body. In this way, when you know yourself, then you know the original transcendence.
Rofessor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying, "Because I am not this body, therefore it doesn't matter if I'm the owner of this body or not."
Prabhupāda: No, then you have to... As soon as you decide that you are not this body, you are transcendental to this body, then you have to understand what is the transcendental nature and what is your business, what you should do. These things will come. At the present moment, because I identify me with this body, I am simply busy with this bodily concept of life. So as soon as you understand that "I am not this body," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am Brahman." That is the beginning of real knowledge.
Rāmeśvara: They say that the problems of the world are so great that unless people have allegiance to one world government, they will not be able to be solved.
Prabhupāda: That we say, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme governor...
Rāmeśvara: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: ...and take shelter of Him. Then everything will be solved. That we are preaching.
Rāmeśvara: They have missed that point.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Young man: But can one be egoistic and be spiritual at the same time, I mean, be proud of himself, not as a body, but proud of his state of the spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are bodily busy. Because I am identifying with this body, therefore my misunderstanding is there. But if I understand I am not this body, then my activities will be different. So first of all, you have to understand that I am not this body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. (break) ...with this body, we remain an animal, because animal cannot understand that he is not body. Try to understand that you are not this body.
Haṁsadūta: She says in the beginning it appears a little difficult to give up everything, but day by day, it becomes...
Prabhupāda: Where is the question of everything, giving up? It is to understand. First of all understand that what you are.
Haṁsadūta: (to girl) Understand?
Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are something beyond this body.
Prabhupāda: Singapore.
Amogha: That is the country that doesn't like us to come in. Just below Malaysia.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning don't talk of these details, just try to convince about the philosophy. What is the nature of God? What is your nature? How we are related, like that.
Paramahaṁsa: By details do you mean the rules and regulations?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not in the beginning. In the beginning one must know that he is not this body. He is spirit soul. Don't bring in controversy, but try to convince that you are not this body. Then, gradually. That is the mode of teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Paramahaṁsa: As they become more interested they ask automatically how they can make advancement.
Prabhupāda: If they understand that "I am spirit soul" then he'll advance. Then you can say. The chanting is required.
Interviewer: What would be the relevance of Kṛṣṇa's teaching in...
Prabhupāda: Relevance mean you are spirit soul. You are not this body. This thing first you have to understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is India's philosophy, that "I am spirit soul." And if you realize brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... (BG 18.54). As soon as you realize that you are not this material body, you are spirit soul, then immediately you become jolly, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering for things which he does not possess, no more any lamenting which he has lost.
Prabhupāda: People are after material gain. They have no spiritual information even, what is spirit, what is the need of spiritual realization, they do not know. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhas: fools and rascals. Those who are after material way of...
Prof. Hopkins: Do you... Do you think then that that, that message is the most important message that you have to convey?
Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.
Prof. Hopkins: It starts in Chapter Two with the question of what is ātmā?
Prabhupāda: In Chapter Two it is said... Arjuna was lamenting that "I shall fight and the other party they are my brother, so I will be sinful. So many problems will come." He was thinking like that. So Kṛṣṇa first gave him lesson that "Why you are thinking on the bodily concept of life? You are not body. You are spirit soul." Then He gave spiritual education.
Prof. Hopkins: So you must start with what the Gītā calls sāṅkhya-yoga then, but go on, and go on to bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga is said last. Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). People are not prepared to take the sublime lesson immediately. Then he has to go step by step. So that is the system of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prof. Hopkins: Are there other ways besides Kṛṣṇa consciousness to reach that same goal?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prof. Hopkins: Or is that the only goal?
Prabhupāda: That is only. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhi... If you want to know God and your relationship with God then only through bhakti, no other. That is stated in the... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Otherwise you will never be able to understand.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anāsakti or āsakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."
Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.
Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."
Dr. Patel: Gandhiji's program was to emancipate the poor, downtrodden people of India in whatever way... In that way, in which there is no implication of falsehood.
Prabhupāda: No, it may not be falsehood, but...
Dr. Patel: It will be by the right way.
Prabhupāda: This may not be the right way.
Dr. Patel: May not be or wrong way, we do not know. But then he did. According to him, he brought and he tried, and he struggled...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we simply study that the Bhagavad-gītā begins with this education, that "You are not this body." Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, dehi. It has nothing to do with this kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This is to be understood. The whole world requires to understand this verse; otherwise they remain go-khara.
Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...
Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...
Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...
Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.
Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.
Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance.
Prabhupāda: It is tamo-guṇa. He knows everything; still, he is forced to act criminally. That is tamo-guṇa. Everyone knows that he will be punished. He has seen that criminal is punished. Still, he acts criminally. That is called ignorance. Heart is unclean. Therefore our first process is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), to cleanse the heart.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Pāpa-buddhi, sinful intelligence.
Prabhupāda: To cleanse the heart, beginning of cleanse the heart, that everyone is cats and dogs and so-called human beings... They are under the bodily concept of life. It has to be cleansed, that "You are not this body." If he understands that, then he will understand other things. This is the beginning of knowledge. But where is that knowledge? No school, no college, teaches this thing. So they remain in ignorance. What is this education if he remains in ignorance?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
- mad bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati
- bhaktiṁ mayi paraṁ kṛtvā
- mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ
- (Bg 18.68)
"For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me."
Prabhupāda: Not to the fools and rascals. So first of all, to give them chance, let them come to the temple, take prasādam, hear saṅkīrtana, offer obeisances by imitating others. In this way, when they become little devotee, then instruct. Otherwise it will be useless. You'll waste your time by arguing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You have given the example that the field has to be plowed before the seed is sown, cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cyavana: The mind has to want that higher taste.
Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). So this process... Bring the... Invite them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, give them prasādam. Everyone will take part in this way, not immediately instructing that "You are not this body; you are soul." He will not be able to.
Faill: So in a sense, what a lot of people are saying today is that we must look inwards rather than outwards into the world of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Inward means that you are spirit soul; you are not this body. But if you keep your bodily concept of life, then where is inward? It is outward only.
Faill: It's just another way of looking out.
Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.
Faill: So the recognition of the spark comes first.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Recognition of the spirit soul within this body, that is first education. Unless one understands this simple fact, there is no question of spiritual advancement.
Reporter: Your Grace, a great many of South Africa's church leaders from some of the big churches are fearful that South Africa is going to find itself in a situation, or find... What message would you give this country in terms of avoiding any...
Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea. This is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, the first teaching is,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Jñāna: If I eat a lot I become fat. If I stop eating I become thin.
Prabhupāda: You stupid, you eat so much, but God is not stupid. He is conscious perfectly. He has nothing to eat. Still, He can grow. That is the difference between me and God. You don't require to eat even. There are many saintly persons they do not eat. How they are working? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was not eating. He was... Every alternate day he was, little butter, so much. That's all, not daily. Every alternate day. So actually we do not require to eat. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense—this is bodily necessities. But you are not this body. When you come to the spiritual platform there is no necessity of these four principles. So that is your mistake, that you are thinking, "God has got a body like me. He requires eating for nourishing it." That is your foolishness. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. His body is so made that He can perform any limb's work by another limb. Just like we can see with the eyes. As soon as close the eyes, we cannot see. But Kṛṣṇa can see by His ear. As soon as you pray to Kṛṣṇa, immediately He sees you, "Oh, here is My devotee," by hearing the sound of your prayer.
Prabhupāda: Take for example our big leader, Mahātmā Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"
Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?
Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...
Prabhupāda: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."
Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...
Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, māṁ aprāpyaiva mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20)
Indian man (7): Attention.
Prabhupāda: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Dr. Patel: śuni caiva śva-pākeṣu paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we like everyone. We do not reject anyone. Dog cannot understand the philosophy. Therefore we call him and give some prasādam.
Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "If you know that you are not this body, then even if you kill all these people, then you are not affected by the reaction."
Prabhupāda: But kill by Kṛṣṇa's order, not whimsically.
Yaśomatīnandana: Similarly, they say that...
Prabhupāda: But if you know that you are not this body—"I am soul"—that what is the soul? Mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So just like this finger is itching here—it is by my order—similarly, when you understand that you are soul, then you have to act according to the advice of Kṛṣṇa. And if you act according to the advice of Kṛṣṇa there is no papa. That is the meaning. To know that you are soul, then you must know what is the soul. That is... Kṛṣṇa explains, mamaivāṁso: "These jīva-bhūta, these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So as soon as you realize ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then you act in that Brahman platform: brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kaṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is the platform. To understand simply "I am Brahman" and remain silent, that is not. Mad-bhaktim labhate param. If you are actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then next stage is, brahma-bhutaḥ means to act in devotional service. That is real. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: People think so far as they are concerned that education means giving the knowledge of how to read and write. I think it is the knowledge and not the education. The education is something different, that trains up your mind how to think, how to, I mean, separate grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Education means ethical. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is education.
Dr. Patel: No, but I mean to say, you must know how to separate the grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā begins education, instruction. Immediately He puts forward that you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. Where is such education? Everyone is thinking, "You are this body." "You are Indian, you are American, you are Hindu, you are Muslim." What is education? Bhagavad-gītā says you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. And now education means be nationalist.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Person. But the person you have never seen. You have never seen. I am seeing you: I am seeing your body, hat, coat, pant, hair. That's all. And dead body also, I will see the same thing. But I say, "Now the person is gone." Then but you have never seen the person. Now you say the person is gone, but before that, you were never interested with the person; you were interested with this body, coat, pant, hair, and that's all. That's all. That is ignorance.
Brian Singer: Well, how do you see the person? By understanding? By...
Prabhupāda: Yes, by analysis, analysis. Now you.... I say that you are not this body. Now you say, "No, I am.... I am Mr. John. I am this body. I am American," "I am Australian." That is ignorance. You are neither Australian, neither American, neither white, neither black. That you have to understand. Neither coat, neither pant. You are different from all these things. That is the first understanding. If we analyze our body and if we at least theoretically understand that "I am not this body," then you are..., you come to the spiritual platform.
Brian Singer: How do you treat.... In Australia mostly people are brought up in Christian religion. Do you treat...
Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.
Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.
Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.
Brian Singer: What's.... What's the concept of...
Prabhupāda: If you say that.... I say that "You are not this body; you are soul." Now, if you say that "As Christian, we don't believe in it," then what can I say? Then I have to say that Christian have no clear idea of knowledge. There is no question of belief. Fact is fact. A child will become a boy. That's a fact. How you can say that "We Christian, we do not believe"? That means ignorance, less intelligence. It is a fact. Everyone knows. Child becomes a boy.
Brian Singer: What is the God that these other religions believe in? Is that...
Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily.
Brian Singer: How do.... In the Gītā, Bhagavad-gītā, there was a problem to understand when a person was told by Kṛṣṇa to fight.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is.... That.... That we shall discuss. First of all you understand that you are not this body.
Brian Singer: But how can you...
Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).
Prabhupāda: You.... You cannot expect any good thing to be taken up by mass of people. That is not possible. In university, when matriculation candidates, there are so many. Then B.A. candidates, so many. And when you come to the M.A., Ph.D., a very few number.
Doug Warvick: Why is that?
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone should be M.A., Ph.D. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like that. It is not meant for ordinary persons. Those who are very intelligent, they can understand it. Ordinary men, they cannot understand even that he's not this body. What he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? Therefore the beginning understanding is that "I am not this body." When you are firmly convinced about this science that you are not this body, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness beginning.
Prabhupāda: Everyone can be devotee.... It is a question to understand that "I am not this body." That is beginning. So a businessman can try to understand, a lawyer can try to understand, or a philosopher can try to under.... Everyone can do that. The real point is, first of all try to understand that you are not this body. So where is the hampering, becoming a businessman or family man or this or that? There is no hampering. We are trained up from the very beginning of our life by our parents. We got the opportunity. And businessman, no businessman, it doesn't matter. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo... (SB 1.2.6). Find out this verse. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa conscious is unhampered by anything material.
Interviewer: But if you consider your religion to be the only religion...
Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. So because he accepted discipleship, so He immediately chastised him that "You rascal, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are on the platform of bodily conception of life, the platform of the animals." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who accepts this body as self, he's animal. He's not even a human being. So the whole world is on this bodily concept of life. That is going on. "American," "European," "Hindu," "Muslim," "black," "white," this, that. They do not know what is education. That is the first education, that "You rascal, you are not this body. You are within the body."
Richard: Um, that I, I've always viewed myself as my self.
Prabhupāda: Myself, that's what..., you are not this body. You are not.... Body is not yourself. Did you ever think of it?
Richard: Well, when I say "myself," I should perhaps define it. Myself being all that I can recall being before, as well as my present, ah...
Prabhupāda: How do you distinguish between a dead man or living man?
Richard: Um, well...
Prabhupāda: The living man is important, but the dead man is not important.
Richard: Not his physical body, no.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then within the physical body, there is something which is making him living man. Is it not?
Richard: Um...
Prabhupāda: What is the dead man? Something is missing; therefore it is dead. Otherwise the body is there.
Richard: Right. Okay. His ability to, to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is.... The same hands, legs, mouth, eyes, ears, hair, everything is there, but now they're crying, "Oh, Mr. such and such gone, oh, finished." What is that finished?
Richard: Well, his ability to share...
Prabhupāda: What is that ability? That is my question. Why this important man is now useless although the same hands, legs, mouth, everything is there, but it is useless?
Richard: Well, he's no longer...
Prabhupāda: What was the important thing?
Richard: The important thing was his ability to share physically and intellectually.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that important thing was within the body; now it is missing. That is distinction between dead man and living man.
Richard: As far as I'm concerned that's it.
Prabhupāda: That is very important thing. This nice body can work on account of presence of that important thing. Otherwise, useless.
Richard: Right.
Prabhupāda: So we are preaching about that important thing.
Prabhupāda: How you can compromise with thieves and rogues? Boarding time?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The flight leaves at 5:05. They'll call. They'll call when it's time. The plane doesn't appear to be here just yet.
Prabhupāda: Although they are poor, still they can understand it easily, very easily, that you are not this body; there is God; if you don't become devotee, you'll remain in this material world. These things they will immediately understand.
Rūpānuga: Once there was this brahmacārī he used to complain to you about how sick he was all the time, and you said, "Are you not brahmacārī? Are you not following the brahmacārī principles?" Did you imply that if he were doing it sincerely he would not be so sick all the time?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Devotee is sick, and he also knows that this is the mercy of the Lord so he doesn't complain in its real sense but the material body is bound to suffer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...you are convinced that you are not this body then there is no suffering.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, that's the clue.
Prabhupāda: As you identify with the body, then you suffer. (break) ...body is damaged, you are not damaged, but because you have got attachment for the motor car, you suffer. (break) ...song by Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura, yāhā smṛti nāhi yār, saṁsāra-bandhana kahata. One who has forgotten that he is this body, he has no suffering.
Interviewer: What did you have to offer then. If you were chanting in the park and I said "What are you doing? Why are you chanting? What's your thing here?"
Bali-mardana: He said what did you have to offer.
Rāmeśvara: He said, "If someone had come up to you while you were chanting and said, 'Why are you doing this? What are you offering?' How would you have replied."
Prabhupāda: They came... Naturally they came and joined me and began to dance, that's all. That is the beginning.
Rāmeśvara: But what if they asked you, "What is this all about?"
Prabhupāda: No, this is for spiritual realization. If you chant, then, gradually, you realize yourself that you are a spiritual being; you are not this body. Then his spiritual life begins. Actually human life is meant for spiritual realization, and if one does not spiritually realize his identity, then he remains an animal. That is the difference between animal and man. Man is supposed to be spiritually realized.
Mike Robinson: And you're really not concerned whether or not they join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. One must be.... Our mission is to educate. People are in ignorance. They are living in fool's paradise, that he is his body. Bas. When the body's finished, everything is finished. That is foolishness.
Mike Robinson: And you're basically just concerned to tell them that there's a spiritual dimension to life. And if they then were to find that spiritual dimension in something like the Anglican Church, that would not worry you.
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Anglican Church...
Mike Robinson: Sorry, the English Church.
Prabhupāda: ...but we are concerned with the educational propaganda, that "You are not this body. Body is your covering, shirt and coat. Within the body you are living, and as you are spirit soul, you have got so many things to know."
Mike Robinson: Sorry, could I just change the tape? Perhaps if we can pick up where we were, if you could just carry on. Perhaps if I can carry on from where I was, that what I'm trying to understand is the difference it makes, a person being a member...
Prabhupāda: You try to understand this, that as you have got experience of change of body.... Have you got or not?
Mike Robinson: Yes, I've got the difference there.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.
Ali: For sure, my belief was disbelief.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, belief changes. Belief changes with the change of the body. Just like a man is thinking that "I am Iranian," "I am Indian," so long this body is Iranian or Indian or American. But the body will change. Then he'll think otherwise. So this belief is also temporary. It will be finished with the body. The body is temporary, and the belief, along with the body, that is also temporary. But I am eternal. That is to be understood. That is spiritual knowledge.
Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are, you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan, or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception, that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-kṣetrajñā. This chapter. Kṣetra means this body and kṣetrajñā means one who knows about the body. You know about your body. Not fully, but at least partially, every one of us we know, "This is my body. I am.... I got this body from such father and mother. I belong.... This body belongs to such and such country." And so on. This is one knowledge. So another soul is there. That is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. He says that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That is Supersoul. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is everywhere within this universe, even within the atom. That is Supersoul. That Supersoul is—the distinction between soul and the Supersoul is this, that we are individual soul.... I know about the pains and pleasure of my body, you know the pains and pleasure of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body, you do not know the pains or pleasure of my body. The Supersoul, He knows the pains and pleasure of all bodies. That is the distinction. Ātmā, Paramātmā. So these things can be understood in the human form of life. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. If we want to educate the cats and dogs that "My dear dog, you are not this body. You are different from this body. You are spirit soul, Brahman," he has no capacity to understand. And a human being, however fallen he may be, if he is educated, he can understand about the position of spirit soul and how to become free from this material bondage. So in India we have got immense Vedic literature for understanding this business of the soul.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā begins from self-realization, that "I am not this body." That is actual position, that if I understand that I am not this body, factually, then what I am, that I am something beyond this body. That is explained in so many different ways. So the center is this, that I am not this body. The answer is one. But I cannot answer, the master will not answer according to the whims of the student. Then he is not master. Because answer is one.
Indian man: Then the question is, this is not the complete answer, that I am not the body. That is not...
Prabhupāda: Hm. Self-realization that, that you are seeking what I am. Am I this body or something else? That is your inquiry. And the answer is that, "No, you are not this body."
Indian man: But questions remain the same.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not... Then it is explained, how you are not this body. In the beginning He explains, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like you see the body has changed every daily, per minute, the body is changing, imperceptively. But try to understand that you were a child, now your body has changed in a different body. But you understand, you remember, that "I was a child." But the child body is no longer. So you remember or not remember, the body is changing. This is the answer. This is self-realization.
Indian man: Then who am I? Question is still hanging.
Prabhupāda: That will come next. The first question is this.
Indian man: I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is sufficient.
Indian man: Quite satisfying, I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That is self-realization.
Indian man: There is something when a person dies, something minus, this body remains useless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you are not this body.
Indian man: Yes, that means I am not the body, I am something beyond body. And what is that beyond body?
Prabhupāda: That is explained in so many chapters.
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is explained, I am... That is... Kṛṣṇa says that the all these living entities... (break) ...that you are the same as God. Mamaivāṁśa. Aṁśa, part and parcel of the... So
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"You, you are as good as I am, or you are as good as God. But because you haven't got, developed your mind materially, therefore you are struggling hard with your mind and senses. The answer is there. First of all you understand that you are not this body, but every one of us, we are struggling hard in this material world because I have taken this body as I am, and the mind is there. I am planning in different ways to become happy in this material...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pradyumna: But ultimately our intelligence comes from scripture and Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, that... Apart from scripture, logic, argument come. Scripture we take. That is our business. But you answer on common ground. Where is the difference why there is dead man and alive? What is your answer? Set aside scripture.
Ādi-keśava: That, they say, is beyond our intelligence.
Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.
Guest (2): But it is very difficult to think of a naked soul.
Prabhupāda: Naked, there is no question of... Naked soul is there, but you have no eyes to see it. Naked soul is there, but it is so small you cannot see it. The dimension of the naked soul is given in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is not possible to see by your these present eyes. But there is. There is no doubt about it.
Indian man: How is it opened, the eyes?
Prabhupāda: By knowledge, therefore... So therefore Kṛṣṇa giving you the knowledge. That you have to hear. Knowledge which you cannot experience by your senses at the present moment, you have to hear from the authority. Avan manasa-gocara. Which is beyond your mind and intelligence, you have to hear from the authority. Just like father. If one wants to know who is father, he cannot see it. He must know it from the authority-mother. Similarly, therefore called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means whatever is beyond the capacity of your senses, that you have to hear from the right source. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And that is the teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. When the things became so complicated, Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And then He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And the first teaching of Bhagavad-gītā is this, that you are not this body.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Dhīra, one has to become, has to become sober. Then he'll understand. And if he remains restless on the bodily platform, as the animals are... They cannot understand. They cannot understand. If you bring some dog and instruct the dog, "My dear dog, you are not this body," it is not possible. But dhīra, if one is not dog—he is human being—he can teach. Therefore this word is used, dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). So that is the beginning of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: This body is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body." The modern civilization has trained up, educated people, in such a way that the more you think yourself, "I am this body—'I am American,' 'I am Indian,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this, I am that' "—and you feel and act like that and create trouble like that, then you are called civilized. Is it not? This is the defect of modern civilization. The more you keep yourself in the darkness of accepting this body as yourself-national feeling, social feeling, family feeling, community feeling-then... But we are speaking from a different platform. Our movement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from a different platform. He begins from the platform of the soul. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. His teaching to Arjuna begins, first of all convincing him that "You are not this body." And He's describing the nature of the soul-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate—in so many ways, adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyo 'yam, so many.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.
Mr. Koshi: But you yourself were involved in some of the movements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are fortunate, they will accept it. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Find out this verse. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, but we are neglecting. Allah... We are getting photograph(?) in Bhagavad-gītā. This is... Actually understand Bhagavad-gītā and distribute the knowledge. That is our aim.
Mr. Koshi: But are there anything... Isn't there something more fundamental than that?
Prabhupāda: There are many things, and they are all subordinate. First of all you understand the body and the owner of the body. In the body there are so many things. Similarly, the owner of deha, greater number of things to know. First of all try to understand the beginning, that you are not this body. That is the fundamental understanding. Then you understand what is the composition of the body and what is the composition of the... The first knowledge is lacking, mistaken, that "I am this body." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as ātmā. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). We have written so many books, eighty-four books. And they are reading. In the Western world they are taking it.
Prabhupāda: Today I have explained the Bhāgavata, prāṇamānāya:(?) how this bodily concept of life is dangerous. These things they do not know. Leaders, big, big papers, big, big propaganda. What is the purpose of life and how dangerous this civilization is, bodily concept of life, they do not know. Bhagavad-gītā begins when they understand that "You are not this body." The whole subject matter is on that soul, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Bhojendra-gehe 'gni-śikheva ruddhā, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī.
Ram Jethmalani: How is it that the Bhagavad-gītā doesn't emphasize public service? There is no emphasis on public social service.
Prabhupāda: Where it is? Tell me. You must give evidence. You are lawyer.
Ram Jethmalani: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Where does it say?
Ram Jethmalani: No, why is there no emphasis?
Prabhupāda: There is no need. This is animal conception of life. The dog also combine together and make (makes barking sound:) ba ba ba ba ba. A human being also can do like that. Then where is the difference between animal and human being?
Ram Jethmalani: But I don't know that animals, on the contrary, serve each other. It is men who do.
Prabhupāda: But what is the use of serving? What you can do? What service you have done? You cannot do anything beyond the laws of nature. Now Indira is in difficulty. What can you do? In one day, everything is finished. The law of nature is so strict. You cannot do anything. You are falsely proud that you want to do. It is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You can do only the service, that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, your business is this." This is dharma(?).
- tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
- na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
- tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham...
- (SB 1.5.18)
Now they are declaring... Our Mrs. Gandhi also said, daridra-anadha.(?) Then what she has done?
Ram Jethmalani: No, she has not done anything.
Prabhupāda: No, no, now she is adha(?). So who is doing this? You are completely under the laws of nature. You cannot violate. If you are tied up, hands and legs, what you can do? First of all liberate yourself. Then talk of liberating others.
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from this understanding. "You are not this body." This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And in the bodily concept of life where is spiritual knowledge? They talk of spiritual, that life is... First of all one has to understand that "I am not this body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Then if I am Brahman, then what is my value? So far I have led my bodily concept of life, but I am Brahman?" Then brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. How Brahman lives, how Brahman is produced, what is his real life.
Prabhupāda: So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle... You have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man. I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it.
Prabhupāda: So we are preaching that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Our preaching is simple. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme." That's all. We repeat. We don't manufacture. What is the use of manufacturing? I am imperfect. Whatever I manufacture, that is imperfect. So better to repeat the words of the perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said, "Every one of you become guru and deliver your surrounding persons, either you are in family or in neighborhood or in society or in nation, as much as you can." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So whatever limited circle, you just become guru and deliver them. Deliver means deliver from the ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance, dehātma-buddhiḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we have to teach them that "You are not this body. You are pure soul. Your business is different." And that is enlightenment. That is the business of guru. So we can do that business. And how to do it? That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Kṛṣṇa has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, alteration. Then you become guru. Very simple thing.
Correspondence
1967 Correspondence
The spirit soul does not evolve like the body. The body has got six transformations, namely, the body takes its birth, it grows, it remains for some time, it produces some by-products and it dwindles and then it vanishes. All these six changes of the body are not applicable to the soul. The soul is permanent. It has no development, no decrease, no destruction, nothing of the sort as compared with the body. The only difficulty of the soul is that in the conditioned state of material body, the soul is supposed to forget its identity; by chanting Hare Krishna gradually the soul revives its identity or it comes out from the forgetfulness. This is not exactly development, but it is reviving one's consciousness. Everything will be gradually clear as you go on chanting Hare Krishna. Please try to chant at least 16 rounds of the beads and while chanting try to hear each and every word. That will make you advance in every respect.
If you analyze yourself very scrutinizingly then you will find that you are spirit soul. How can you do it if you think of yourself, what you are, you will analyze that you are not this body, you are not this hand, you are not this leg, you are not this mouth, but you are something. And what is that something? That something is continuing. When you were a child that something was there, when you were a little more, a girl, then that same something was there and now you are a young girl,, the same something is there, and when you will be old enough, the same something is there. Therefore, this same something is there even you have changed your body in so many ways. Therefore next conclusion should be that even if you change to another body, that something will continue. Therefore that something will continue. All this truth about the soul will gradually develop as you go on chanting Hare Krishna.
| Page Title: | You are not this body (Conv and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Sahadeva |
| Created: | 25 of Dec, 2009 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=55, Let=1 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |