Prabhupāda: There is a class, kṣatriya; they will be very glad to be recruited as soldier. They are very strong. Jat. They are called jat, Gurkha. They don't like any other occupation. Fighting they like. The Sikhs. The Sikhs they are jat class, and the Gurkha, oh, the whole British Empire was extended with the help of the Sikhs and the Gurkhas. The Britishers took these Gurkhas and the Sikhs to Burma, to Messopotamia. They liquidated the Empire because they lost India. The British soldiers were not helping to keep up their Empire. These Indians soldiers. In the first war they gained for these Indian soldiers. They fought in France and everywhere very nicely. They are fighter class. They like to fight. And fighting is not going every day. So the arrangement was... Just like you have to fight for the state. So there is no monthly salary system. You are awarded by the government a certain tract of land free. You produce grains and utilize the land; no tax for you. But when there will be war, you shall fight. Very nice arrangement. Similarly, in temple, the florist has to supply flowers daily. Mr. Khanvar(?), am I right? You know this Indian system?
Salary (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But it is the mission of human life to come to that point. So at least there must be some center or institution who may give them this idea. It is not that everyone will come. Just like there are many educational department. I know in Calcutta in our boyhood age, at that time Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee was vice-president. So he opened some classes in the university. In each class there were four or five professors, and at that time the professors' salary was 1300 dollar, 1400 dollar. And the fees were collected, at most thirty-six dollar per month. You see? But still the classes were to be maintained because the ideal must be there. So our mission is the intelligent persons of the world may know that this is not, simply seeking after sense gratification is not the aim of human life.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Replay little. (break) Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.
Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support.
Prabhupāda: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That's nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.
Guest (5): No, I don't want money.
Prabhupāda: Then you come with your whole family. (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Don't be dependent. Be dependent on Kṛṣṇa. To live here means to become dependent on Kṛṣṇa. That is there(?). You have to become dependent either to your master or to your boss or to your brother or to somebody else. But if you become dependent on Kṛṣṇa your whole problem is solved. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Don't consider about money. (Hindi) ...did not care for the family. For political emancipation they sacrificed so much.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion. My Guru Maharaja used to cite one example that one's friend was sitting on the high-court judge's bench. So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul. So if... (end)
Pradyumna: You said in one place, "Man is the architect of his own happiness and distress."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is an axiomatic truth even by the modern man. Yes, that "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So as soon as there is work to make your fortune, then there must be a person to decide to give you a fortunate position. Just like in an establishment, so many men are working, but there is a president. He is considering the work file, "How this man has worked?" And he is being promoted, his salary is being increased, and somebody is degraded, no promotion, rather, transferred in some other place. So natural conclusion is when there are so many varieties of life in our presence and they are, although in the same place, they haven't got the same facility, so there must be somebody who decides on this point. So how you can deny God? Our point is the Supreme Person, the president, who decides on this fact, He is God. What is the opposite answer?
Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, all of them become nullified and this rascal comes forward to defy all the ācāryas and push some new theory. Just see. This is going on. (Sanskrit) In the Varāha Purāṇa it is stated that some of the rākṣasas, they will take advantage of Kali-yuga and take birth in brāhmaṇa families, so he is one of them, this rākṣasa. And now he is suffering for that. Greatest calamity, you see? And according to Vedic injunction, the king if he levies tax from the subjects who are sinful, then he has to partake of the sinful action and he'll have to suffer. So, this rascal became the president of India, it is the position of king and on the (indistinct) of him he supported the slaughterhouses and levied taxes and he took high salary, enjoyed it. Now he is suffering the effect, sinful effect. Now in his living condition he has lost his brain. He, practically dead but living condition, it is very precarious condition. One is living actually but his brain is not acting, worse than a madman. So, this is the result of the rākṣasa statement. Yes, go on. (end)
Prabhupāda: Śūdra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is śūdra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a śūdra. A brāhmaṇa never serves anyone, a kṣatriya never serves anyone, a vaiśya never serves anyone. A śūdra... Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is śūdra.
Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."
Prabhupāda: Well, that also you can continue. That is not... Just like we are using so many things made of skin. But as far as possible, you avoid. There are many shoes without skin, nowadays they are available. First of all try to understand the philosophy. It is very nice attitude that you have. What salary you are getting, government service?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted to deal with Value Added Tax, and I will go up from 1,400 pounds a year to 1,700 or 1,800 pounds a year. I'm not sure of my new salary because I'm starting on Monday.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That means our 150 pounds per month?
Ian Polsen: Less the tax.
Devotee: About 4,500 a year, dollars.
Ian Polsen: Do you deal in percentages?
Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Trivedi.
Revatīnandana: Yeah. I talked to him, but he will not become a life member. He wouldn't even give that much rupees. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They are not very highly paid. Within thousand. In Japan also. The high salary is in your country.
Devotee: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Unexpected fabulous(?) Just like that boy who came to see me yesterday. He's in India, he's getting 900 dollars, that means our ten thousand rupees. Gopal is also not getting. I asked Gopal to continue his service and give 400 dollars per month.
Devotee (1): Hm. Each month. That's great. Very good.
Prabhupāda: So here we shall give you books, cost price only, and you sell books by profit only and spend for building.
Guest (2): Hypothetical case that...
Prabhupāda: No, nothing hypothetical. Your bondage... Bondage means that birth, death, old age and disease. This is bondage. We are all living entities, part and parcel of God. We are spirit soul. So this is not our business, birth, death, old age and disease. So bondage means so long you'll get this material body you are under this bondage: birth, death, old age, and disease. Because you are very rich man, getting good salary, it does not mean that you will not die, or disease will not attack you. This is bondage. First of all try to understand what is bondage. Bondage and freedom. Bondage means to be subjected to the condition of this material body. That is called bondage. The body may be elephant's body or tiger's body or Brahmā's body or ant's body, but that is bondage. Because as soon as you get a material body you are under this bondage of birth, death, old age and disease. So your problem is how to get out of this bondage, not that to accept the bondage—just like I am bound up by iron shackles—"Let me be bound up by golden shackles." So that is bondage. The people do not know. They are satisfied when they are bound up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance. He feels satisfied when he is locked up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance.
Gurudāsa: We will retain him in some way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you retain him.
Gurudāsa: That is the system, that he stays there but we will do the pūjārī work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him salary.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He is being paid?
Gurudāsa: I think they must be.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he is being paid, we shall pay. (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: (indistinct) also knows it, because he announced to this chairman of the council that he will become the gardener and they will become the pūjārīs. So he is for that.
Prabhupāda: The poor man, unless he gets some income, he becomes (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: Yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Get pension from Japan?
Guest (1): From Japan, twenty-five percent of salary. So it's not enough, same society, same society, salary time in Japan (indistinct) evacuation. I left, moreover, I have two (indistinct) in Tokyo (indistinct) by my mother and father. This is (indistinct) Before I had four—one wife and one only daughter but both (indistinct) passed away, and widower. So I was anywhere safe alone, widower, so I left Japan '63, for India first. (indistinct) Kabul, Peshawar and Tehran, Karachi and come here '66. Too long, (indistinct) easiest place to live, easiest places to live. But too long (indistinct) So I will leave from here maybe next year (indistinct) Alexandria, Egypt and from there along the south coast Mediterranean up to Rabat, Morocco. Before pre-war time I was several times (indistinct) Suez Canal (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: He has traveled all over the world.
Prabhupāda: What is your age now?
Guest (1): Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, (indistinct) so I take air from Indonesia (indistinct) only and take ship to Alexandria. (indistinct) From Alexandria to Morocco I take (indistinct) bus, big bus like Union Pacific before from east side the west side America, we take big bus (indistinct) four days only I arrive at (indistinct) Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, not near Madrid, Castillian (indistinct) again take ship from (indistinct) railway from Manchester to (indistinct) So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man (indistinct) I am also old man, not so long time, within one year I down, I never been South America, only up to Mexico so I go to (indistinct). And stay, I contracted only one contract three years but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago Chile I take the ship again to, Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney and go back from (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.
Pakistan was not there. You know very well. Lahore was your country. Now it is other's country. So in this way, there cannot be any solution. There cannot be any solution. We must know the central point. The central point is Kṛṣṇa. We get from... I'm not manufacturing these ideas. Bhagavad-gita is recognized book. There it is stated that:
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
If, actually, anyone wants śānti, peace, he must know these three things: The Lord, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the enjoyer, bhokta. What is called? Beneficiary? Yes. Because He's the owner. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. And He's friend of everyone. Suhṛdaṁ-sarva-bhūtānām. Jñātvā, knowing this, mām, Me, Kṛṣṇa says, śāntim ṛcchati, there is śānti. There is śānti. Otherwise, this, this so-called conference, and big, big office, big, big salary, big, big officers, it will never be successful.
Bhagavān: When he said that: "Many times, my students ask me questions that I do not know. So I try to answer." But you said: "If you do not know, you should not teach." You said: "Our philosophy is that if you do not know, you should step down." He said: "I cannot do that."
Prabhupāda: He's getting salary, money. No sincerity.
Bhagavān: So actually a devotee has answer for every question.
Prabhupāda: That is devotee, who can answer any question. Everything is discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything, complete knowledge. Now in Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that this cosmic manifestation... Now you find out this verse: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Mayā. M-a-y-a.
Devotee: Still too loud.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: It's too loud downstairs. There have been complaints from the neighbors.
Prabhupāda: Loud, they are very good. How can you stop it? As soon as you chant, somebody... That you cannot check. You may stop mṛdaṅga. That's all.
Guest (2): Without any selfish interest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You remain servant of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a servant discharges his duty very faithfully for the satisfaction of the master, similarly, you have got industry, if you work in this industrial work for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa... Just like this boy behind you, he is working somewhere, getting good salary. But I had told him that "some percentage you must give to Kṛṣṇa." He is regularly giving.
Guest (2): If I feel I have love for Kṛṣṇa, is that enough to be a devotee.
Prabhupāda: But you must show how your love... Simply if you say... Suppose, anywhere in this material world, if you say somebody that "I love you," but there is no symptoms of love, then what kind of love? Love symptoms means dadāti, giving. First symptom. Just like when a boy goes to love a girl, he brings something. That is ordinary etiquette. So first beginning of love is dadāti, pratigṛhṇāti. If I love you, I must give you. And if you offer me, I will take it, I will take something. Pratigṛhṇāti. Exchange, giving and taking. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti, bhuṅkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, give him to eat, and whatever he gives you, you also eat. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And if you love somebody then you disclose your mind to him and try to understand him also. By these six processes the symptoms of love is there. But if you say that "I love you," but there is no action...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...part of their salary.
Prabhupāda: So if you make that association, that will not help you. Joint mess, dormitory. Or joint family. Just like in India. There are five brothers. They're earning. Father and mother is the leader. They're handing over the money, and the father, mother managing. That is Indian system, a joint family. So joint family or joint mess, the same thing. So if you make like that, a center, then it is no good. You must get spiritual strength. Karmī strength will not help you. What they are doing in Babar(?) Road, these girls?
Guru dāsa: They're preparing some śṛṅgāra for Deity.
Prabhupāda: Why not here? Why go to Babar Road, spend twenty rupees?
Guru dāsa: According to them, that sometimes they have to go in the center of town.
Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay.
Karandhara: He's elected.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he's elected, that is same. But his position is supreme. Why he's supreme? As government servant, he gets the highest salary, he has the, all the best facilities, amenities, and his order is final. In this way...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has the command of convincing others.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has the power or the command of...
Prabhupāda: No, you may not agree with him. Still, you have to accept. That is his supremacy. You may not agree with him, but because he's supreme, you have to accept his order. That is his position. It does not depend on your acceptance or not acceptance. That is supremacy. Is it not?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You cannot say, "Mr. President, I don't agree with you. Therefore I shall not accept your order." No. You have to. You agree or not agree. That is supremacy. So when we judge the supremacy from material standpoint of view, we find that these things are the symptoms of supremacy. So all these symptoms must be in full extent in God. That is Supreme Person. God is great, God is the supreme controller. How He's supreme controller? So these are the symptoms. Therefore the definition of God given by Parāśara Muni.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's all."
Prabhupāda: They again thinking. What is your present position? You are maintained. You cannot maintain. You are maintained by your boss. He gives you some salary and you fill up your bellies. You rascal, you want to be maintainer. You cannot maintain even a family of five heads. Therefore we say, all full of rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... That is our śāstric conclusion. Anyone who is atheist, nondevotee, he is a rascal number one. Bās. It doesn't matter what post he holds. Our conclusion is that he is a rascal number one. That's all. He cannot have any good qualification. There is need of God. Who will maintain? Just like children. They require care of the parents. The people require the care of a head man, executive. This is essential. You cannot do without God. Who is maintaining that the moon is exactly in time rising, exactly in time setting?
Devotee: Only God.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution. People are cheaters. They have been taught how to cheat. Everyone has got a cheating propensity. That is conditioned life. Four defects: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat and imperfectness of the senses. So cheating propensity everyone has got. So that cheating propensity is being encouraged more and more. Instead of minimizing it or stop it, it is being encouraged.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "No, no, no, no," not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible.
Prabhupāda: You have done this. You have, on the false plea that "We'll give you five hundred rupees salary. You come in the city and be engaged." Oh, he saw, "Oh, I am simply producing my food. If I get five hundred rupees, then I'll go to cinema, I'll have a good dress." Now there is no food even. You have done this. That's all. What is the benefit of this machine. Machine benefit is that we were purchasing, when there was no so much machine, in our childhood, three rupees, four annas per mound, first-class rice. Now we are purchasing one Kg.
Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not prepared.
Prabhupāda: Then? You have to engage laborer and spend two hundred rupees per head at least, including salary and food, and the production is nil. In this way, there must be ten thousand, twenty thousand expenditure. Am I right or not, that "You bring money some way from anywhere, and let us spend lavishly?" What kind of management this is? We should consider the money, after all, is earned with hard labor. So somebody will bring money with hard labor, and another body will spend like irresponsible prince; that should be stopped. That is management. (break) ...especially is that the religion means to make a class of men, simply idle... What is? Opiate...? What is called?
Devotees: Opiate of the people.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want.
Prabhupāda: That is a... That is the difficulty. All people are being drawn by giving them, I mean to say, attraction for high salary, and they are taking so-called technical education, and all of them working in the factory. Nobody's working on the field. They are śūdras. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: ...artist is accepted as a philosopher in life.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: In our society (break) ...accepted (break) ...as a philosopher.
Prabhupāda: Artist?
Hṛdayānanda: Yeah, the artist.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Artist is also business of the śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, but in our... I'm saying, in modern society in America, they are considered... (break)
Prabhupāda: Nonsense philosophy. They do not know what is the meaning of philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, generally in colleges in the West, they charge some fee for going to the college. What is our position?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't charge any fee. There is no question of money. Because the brāhmaṇas, they'll teach free. They require money because they have to give fat salary to these rascals. But we haven't got to. And even we have to feed them, we produce our own grain. So where is the question of taking money? So therefore it is required, somebody must produce food. Then there is no necessity of money.
Hṛdayānanda: The vaiśya students will produce the food.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Should our children who are at gurukula, when they grow up, should they go to that varṇāśrama college, or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. They should go.
Hṛdayānanda: We'll start it right away.
Prabhupāda: Varṇāśrama college means for grown-up students. College means for grown-up students.
Prabhupāda: This is philosophy. Not that "Because I am friend, I will do, and you will sleep and get dysentery." No. You have to work. Everything is already arranged, but you must work. That is wanted. Otherwise, why Arjuna was induced to fight. Kṛṣṇa has already arranged. And Arjuna also: "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Whatever you say..." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...politician, Balavanta? He's not here. So let him preach that "We shall, if you take our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there will be no unemployment." He can at least give this manifesto to the..., "There will be no more unemployment." People will be very nice, very glad to hear. Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, com...
Devotee: Computer, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we say there are persons, combination of fiery persons. Therefore it looks so bright.
Akṣayānanda: Is the brightness of a diamond because of the presence of a jīva?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Akṣayānanda: The brightness...? No.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you get a diamond body. Just like glowworm. Glowworm, it has a glowing body. That's all. But the glowing substance is different from the soul. Owner of the body is different. What he's doing? (break) ...came other day, morning?
Guest: (indistinct) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...have purchase this land for him for preaching Christian Bible. So he, maybe he was getting some salary on this land in this way. He gave up Gauḍīya Maṭha association and he became Christian. So I know that this land belonged to him. His wife was there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: Maybe at Allahabad. He's the proprietor. He was Mr. Cakravarti. (end)
Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Girirāja: (reading) "This māyā or illusory struggle for existence is immediately stopped. Lord Brahmā, who has full control over the Goddess of learning and who is considered to be the best authority in Vedic knowledge, was thus perplexed, being unable to understand the extraordinary power manifested in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. (break) ...said that unless one comes to understand the inconceivable power of God, there is no meaning of God.
Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.
Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient.
Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.
Bhagavān: He must steal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their satisfaction. So you must allow them. In old zamindar family, they will pay the manager five rupees per month, salary, and allow them to steal. That was simply a token salary that "You are servant." And the manager was so clever, he would steal, but he would not spoil the property of the master. He will manage very nicely that he will extra, make extra income and steal. The master will not be touched. Master will be happy. Master knows that "I am paying him five rupees. That is nothing." And he is constructing big building, getting his sons and daughters married very luxuriantly. Master is... Even fifty years before, there was a zamindar, Raja Manindra Candranandi. He was very magnanimous man, making various charities. So if somebody will complain, "Sir, your this servant is stealing like this," he would be very angry. The man who complains, he will be angry upon him, "Why do you come and complain?" He will not accept any complaint. Rather, he will be angry with the man who complains.
Prabhupāda: They think, but we see practically: Why there is difference between this manager and the laborer class? Will the dictator, the manager will take the same salary as the sweeper is taking? Why there is difference? Why the manager is given more preference for living condition? Where is equality? First of all show me. Simply talking will not do.
Dhanañjaya: Actually, the only difference is that in the communist countries, religion is not allowed.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But their philosophy that everyone is equal... Where is equality? There is no equality. Why you are talking nonsense? And in Moscow I have seen. So many people are walking, and others are going on motorcar. Why? why this difference? Why not everyone motorcar? Then what improvement you have made? You are simply talking. Why this difference? Nobody wants to walk. Why thousands of people walking on the street, and some of them are going on motorcar? Why? Where is the equality?
Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?
Satsvarūpa: Watchtower?
Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes.
Guru-gaurāṅga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests...
Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19...
Yogeśvara: (reading) "Dedicated to the soldiers of Geneva who died in the service of their country."
Prabhupāda: So that means it was attacked?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Probably defending banks or things like that. Civil.
Prabhupāda: Two wars, 1914 to 1918.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And that is supposed to be the brāhmaṇa class too, the professors. They're the educated class of people.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not brāhmaṇas. Those who give education in exchange of money, they are not brāhmaṇas. Just like we are lecturing, educated, educating people. We don't say that "Give us salary." We simply ask them, "Please come." Therefore we are making food. I'll give you food. I'll give you good seat. Please come and hear. We are not asking money, that "First of all pay the fees. Then you come and learn Bhagavad-gītā." We never say so. So those, these so-called teachers, they first of all set up salary, "What salary you'll give me?" That is dog's business. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. Brāhmaṇa will never ask. Brāhmaṇa is eager to give lesson only. That's all. Brāhmaṇa is eager to see that people are educated. "Take free education and be educated. Be a human being." This is brāhmaṇa's business. I came here not to ask for any money. But I want to give lesson. This is brāhmaṇa's business.
Bhagavān: Today the priests are afraid to speak too strongly or else they will be fired and get no salary.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: Today the priests, they are afraid to speak.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (3): You mean Swamiji then that all scientific efforts, whatever they are, should be stopped altogether?
Prabhupāda: No, not stopped. Just like you have got ordinary car and you purchase a Rolls-Royce car. The business is the same. It is simply an artistic improvement. In the ordinary car there is much jerking and the Rolls-Royce car there is no jerking. That will not benefit you. After all it is car. You can use it for going here to there, there to here, that's all. Therefore our Vedic civilization, they are not very much eager to manufacture a motor car, they are satisfied with the bullock cart. Because after all you have to go from this place to that place. And there was no need of big, big roads, three thousand miles long for driving the car. You see. The bullock cart was sufficient, here to there, a few miles. But they were interested to cultivate spiritual knowledge. That is Indian civilization. Vyāsadeva was living in a cottage and just see literature. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was prime minister of India and he was living in a cottage, drawing no salary and he has given his politics and moral lesson, so sublime. So here at the present moment, the motor car civilization, he's anxious how to get a Rolls-Royce motor car, that's all. That is his business.
Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?
Prabhupāda: And Karandhara is taking one thousand dollars?
Jayatīrtha: Well, here's the problem, that because it is a business, people must, that work there, have to get regular salary and pay taxes. Otherwise we can get in a lot of trouble. We can get in a lot of trouble. Maybe Bhagavān may know.
Bhagavān: Well, I have the same thing in France. Spiritual Sky is a legal business. That means you have to legally employ people. But I employ the temple people and just take their salary.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's all right.
Bhagavān: Do you take Karandhara's salary?
Jayatīrtha: No, that's a different thing. Anyway, let me finish the point. The point is that legal salary has to be paid, and then taxes have to paid from that. So for example, Karandhara's salary is not really a good example because he doesn't give fifty percent. But one thousand dollars is the salary.
Bhagavān: Minimum? Minimum salary?
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: Anyway, let me finish... That's why I don't want to discuss this in front of Prabhupāda, because of argument. Anyway, the next point is that, as far as Karandhara's salary is concerned...
Prabhupāda: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our gṛhastha bhaktas may be employed...
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, but they're not employed anymore.
Jayatīrtha: That's not true.
Prabhupāda: And the bare necessities should be paid.
Jayatīrtha: Right. Well, generally we have about seventeen, eighteen gṛhasthas employed in Los Angeles, and they get much smaller salary, and they, for the most part, they're giving everything over subsistence to the temple as donation. They take out minimum subsistence...
Prabhupāda: But Karandhara is not giving anything.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are giving free service? Anyone, all of my disciples, they are qualified. Their service is worth more than any thousands of... Yes. So why you are maintaining Karandhara? All of them, they are giving free service. But they are all worthy to take salary, two thousand, three thousand, five thousand...
Atreya Ṛṣi: Karandhara is only, what he's getting is only enough for his maintenance.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Atreya Ṛṣi: We are being maintained.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Maintenance... Here, everyone can earn money and maintain him, but here this expense should be sacrifice. The essential is service.
Haṁsadūta: It's his service...
Prabhupāda: Service, yes.
Haṁsadūta: It was started for that reason.
Prabhupāda: If we take payment, that is not service. That is business. That is business.
Prajāpati: Harvard chair, bishop's salary... Bishops get 25,000 dollars a year.
Acyutānanda: Then if you can't discuss openly with people, then what's the point?
Prajāpati: The point is they have big, big buildings, big, big salaries, big, big positions...
Prabhupāda: That is... That is all right. If you want to keep one man in a very high position, you should give all comforts. That is good. Just like if you want to keep a king, he must have a palace. He must have his officers, secretaries...
Acyutānanda: So he means to say that if we present that we are better theologists, then their position will be in jeopardy.
Pañcadraviḍa: Then the question is "Then why...?" Now we are... Hypothetically, in this situation, we are approaching these theologists. Then why we are approaching if they are not open to discussion? I mean, what is the purpose in going to them?
Acyutānanda: No. Prajāpati here studied theology and brought it up to Prabhupāda.
Acyutānanda: There's a single serious way. You can say, "Look, you've been sitting here since St. Paul, and you haven't arrived at anything except discussion, and you're bluffing the whole public that you're doing some advanced research and taking salaries and..."
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But, but we have to convince them.
Pañcadraviḍa: But how can you convince them...?
Acyutānanda: We'll convince them that they haven't come to any conclusion.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yeah, how can you convince them if they can't even, they cannot define who is God, they cannot define what is the soul, they cannot define what is the principles of religion?
Acyutānanda: And their leader is breaking all of them.
Pañcadraviḍa: They cannot... They can't... They don't even have any disciplic succession. Their śāstra is... They can't agree among them what is the concise śāstra, nor can they agree on what is the importance of accepting śāstra in the first place. They're doing all sinful activities. So then... Then what is there to convince?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: So why not start an authoritative group of Christians who chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who study the Bible and read the Bhagavad-gītā?
Acyutānanda: We are.
Prabhupāda: We are all Christians.
Prabhupāda: So what is the study? Anyone can study. Just like we are giving: "It is a most artificial civilization."
Śrutakīrti: He's drawing a big salary for studying. He's getting a big research salary.
Paramahaṁsa: And he's teaching others how to study the problems, but there's no solution.
Amogha: They have no solution actually.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there. They won't take it. Solution is there, that everyone produce your own food. There is so much land; utilize it. The solution is there. No. They want to sit down on the table, chair, in a very nice compartment, and making solution. They won't go.
Amogha: He was saying that your solution was too simple. He said that people will not accept it because it is too simple.
Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance. They will say it is primitive. That is the only solution. According to the Vedic system, you cannot use anything which you cannot produce. Suppose this we are using, but according the Vedic system we should not use it because I cannot produce it. Then the whole solution is there. Nobody will manufacture this because there will be no customer. If I refuse this use of this machine, thinking that "I cannot produce it; I should not use it," then where is the customer? The so-called industry will automatically stop, and he has to go to the village outlying.
Prabhupāda: So why not begin this? There is no loss. You are not losing anything. Suppose if you chant the holy name of God as a geographer. Your salary is not decreased. So there is no...
Justin Murphy: Certainly not, no. But why is there...? If people are, in their own way, then, chanting to their God, why...
Prabhupāda: No, no... Ultimately, you require sufficient supply of water to grow your food, vegetables. Or even if you are animal-eater, to maintain your animals you require sufficient water. And that is recommended, that yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And the yajña is very simple: chanting the holy name of the Lord. So why not introduce, that every home, every factory, every community, every place, they should sit down at least for half an hour and chant the holy name of the Lord?
Justin Murphy: Could I ask you very simply? You suggest this. If we all do this, will that, for example, remove the problems that we do, that our society, at any rate, at any guess, generates for ourself? We have more and more pollution. Depending on the way the wind blows, for example, we get at times choking pollution from the industrial complexes down to the south of this city. Are these problems going to be...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the next question will be, "If you get sufficient grain for eating, why should you take to industry?"
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, you did not invite him?
Amogha: Yes, but he would not come unless he was interested.
Prabhupāda: In the modern society there is no idea of first-class man, what is first-class man. They take it, a minister is first-class man. A first-class man is by these qualities: śamo damas titikṣā. It is not by the fat salary. By the first-class qualities.
Amogha: Some people, like this man, they notice that qualities are degrading and natural resources are degrading, so many problems are coming. But they don't know what to do. They're simply reporting that "There we go down."
Prabhupāda: They cannot counteract. The counteraction is here in our society. They should accept it. Then it will be all right. So become first-class man. Everyone will hear you. And you can face any so-called first-class man and talk with him straightforward that "You are fourth class." (laughter) (devotees offer obeisances) (end)
Śrutakīrti: And no mango for breakfast.
Prabhupāda: No. You said that the man will not like this kind of job. Eh? Therefore there must be division of job. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). He is a śūdra. He does not want to produce his own food. If you give him some salary, then he will be satisfied. And then he will work with plow also. If you give him salary, he will accept that.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually in the West, more or less, that system, the division system, is accepted because we have businessmen, we have labor men, we have politicians, we have teachers and professors.
Prabhupāda: It is changed?
Śrutakīrti: Changed?
Prabhupāda: My wrapper?
Śrutakīrti: Yeah, this is the new wrapper.
Prabhupāda: New wrapper?
Śrutakīrti: I got for you in Vṛndāvana. I'd gotten it in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: With that border?
Śrutakīrti: No, no, that's this. See there are two wrappers.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Both of them are new.
Prabhupāda: That we are loving. We are giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is loving, real loving. We are giving him eternal life, eternal bliss. Unless we love them, why we are taking so much trouble? The preacher must love the people. Otherwise why he is taking? He can do it for himself at home. Why he is taking so much trouble? Why in eighty years old I have come here if I do not love? So who can love better than a preacher? He loves even the animals. Therefore they are preaching, "Don't take meat." Do they love the animals, rascals? They are eating, and they love their country, that's all. Nobody loves. It is simply sense gratification. If somebody loves, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. All rascals. They are after their own sense gratification, and they will put a signboard, "I love everyone." This is their business. And fools are accepting, "Oh, this man is very philanthropic." He does not love any man. He loves only senses. That's all. The servant of the senses, that's all.
Everyone is working because he is getting money. Where is the love? The minister, the prime minister, everyone, if they say, "No money, no salary," nobody will go. He takes the opportunity of taking money by bribe, by this way. Therefore they are: "I love your country. Elect me as president." That's all. What this president has done, Nixon? He has stolen so many things. So what is his love for the country?
Prabhupāda: Good society. The group... We gave reference from Bhagavad-gītā, saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Association is required. Otherwise why we are opening so many centers? Just to give them the facility of association. These men are big rascals. The world is full of rascals, and the so-called leaders, they are big rascals, that's all. They cannot make any solution. Simply take salary. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are big rascals, and the small rascals accept them as leader. That's all.
Amogha: That is vox populi of the rascals.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The whole world is rascal. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. Take it for granted. This is the test. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know what is his self-interest. He is simply enamored by the external energy and trying to make adjustment of things. Andhā yathāndhair upanīya... He is a rascal, and his leader is also rascal. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. These rascals do not know they are bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and they are making solution, problem. Just like this geographer is making solution and all of a sudden will die. And then another rascal will come into that place to make solution. The problem will remain, and they will come and go. They will come and go. Napoleon came for solution, Hitler came for solution, Gandhi came for solution, but when Napoleon was offered a horse's urine instead of water, he could not make any solution.
Prabhupāda: ...be superintend when the garden opens. (break) ... saw the question, but he cannot answer. So he began to write words like this, whole book, and the examiners saw that it has no meaning. But he has coined so many words. They said, "Very intelligent." They passed him. (laughter) Now, "upperfluous." You don't find all these words in dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was dogbendikulali gondolized by lacticism of wine." It appears very gramatically nice composed, but it has no meaning. So he coined such words, a full book. Because he could not answer. So the time was there. He began to coin words. And he was passed, for his intelligence. Similarly, these people are putting words which you cannot understand, and they are getting their salaries, that's all. (break) ...invent something, that they will not die, there will be no disease, there will be no old age. That is something. What is this nonsense, simply speculating? (break) The cloud is standing there. It is not systematic. Then why the gravitation is not working? There are millions and millions tons of water. Why the gravitation is not working? The law of gravitation, why it is not working? Don't work with a rod.(?) What is the answer? They are not systematic changing. Why? Why the gravitation is not working, fall down? They are heavy, very heavy when they, what is called... Agitation. What is called?
Śrutakīrti: Friction.
Prabhupāda: Another foolish propaganda.
Bali-mardana: Now they have given up.
Prabhupāda: You see? They want to draw some salary, big salaries, by bluffing the government and the public. This is their business. They are failing. They have finished their business on this planet; now they are going another planet. These are nonsense. (break) They know that "We... So as far as possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this planet is finished. So let us go to another planet." This is going on.
Paramahaṁsa: Even if they wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop because they've already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Because they have cheated people for so many years and drawn high salaries, now they are finding out: "How to cheat these rascals and continue our business?" This is the problem. Because they have nothing to research. Everything, whatever, are finished. And all failure. Simply big, big words, that's all. Word jugglery, that's all. They could not do anything. What exactly they have done, something which is not done by God? They competition with God, so what they have done? What is their contribution?
Bali-mardana: Only negative; nothing positive. (break) ...easier to kill people.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That much they have done, yes. (break) ...diverting the attention of the people from going to the moon planet, they are meeting in the sky. So what will benefit we shall derive by their meeting in the sky?
Prabhupāda: Because if they are not employed by government with big, big salaries, who will care for them, scientists? Hundreds of scientists may wander or walk in the street. Who will recognize him unless he has got money? I have seen in India. So many scientists are loitering in the street without any employment. Who cares for them?
Dharmādhyakṣa: They will have to go on welfare, Prabhupāda, pretty soon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But a saintly person, even he has no money, people care.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...Paṇḍita says, vidvat tvaṁ ca nṛpatvaṁ ca naiva tulyam kadācana: "A rich man, or a king, and a learned man, learned vidvān, they should not be compared. There is no comparison." Why? Sva-deśe pūjyate rājā. "A rich man or a king may be worshiped in his kingdom," vidvān sarvatra pūjyate, "and if a man is learned, he will be worshiped everywhere." Therefore, he says, "Never compare with rich man with learned man."
Dharmādhyakṣa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all these social problems, then, in society are basically caused by them denying God. That is the ultimate...
Prabhupāda: No, because they are asses. Why don't you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that "We are very great." Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that "We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that," and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, "Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely."
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, theologians also say that God is the... (break) ...person He is.
Prabhupāda: So we can describe. (break) Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.
Bahulāśva: In the Bible it says that no one has ever seen God.
Prabhupāda: But then why don't you go who has seen God? Why remain foolish? That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you do not know, if you have not seen, then go to guru. Why should I sit idle, "I have not seen; I will never see"? Is that knowledge? Go there where you can see. That is intelligence. "Nobody has seen. Therefore there is no use of seeing." What is this argument? This is no argument.
Prabhupāda: What they are doing by doing business? They are gṛhasthas doing business?
Brahmānanda: They are outsiders, karmīs, they manufacture jewelry and some shirts, for which they get a salary.
Devotee (1): Yes, but the devotees are maintaining the business. And I myself go out and talk to rascals all day long, demons, mlecchas. Am I engaging them in Kṛṣṇa's service by taking lakṣmī?
Prabhupāda: What you are doing with the money?
Devotee (1): I'm giving it to the temple president so that we can buy a farm for you.
Prabhupāda: No, if you are engaging the money for Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right.
Brahmānanda: He's asking about is there any benefit to the karmīs that he deals with because he engages in business activity with them? Do the karmīs get benefit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent they are helping Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Then why these rascals create problem? And become a big scientist and draw a good salary, fatty salary, that's all. (break) He has invented hydrogen bomb, but does it mean the war is taking place every day? Say, after twenty years, fifty years, war will, then his service will be appreciated, by the time he will die.
Brahmānanda: They have not used the hydrogen bomb yet.
Prabhupāda: Even there is use, so where the use? We require daily things. (break) ...this fruit?
Dharmadhyksa: These are cones. This is a pine tree, and these are cones. What are cones used for?
Jayatīrtha: Seeds are in the pinecones. (break) ...cone the trees come.
Prabhupāda: Let them produce one seed like that. Sow it and a big tree will come out. Where is that scientist? Millions of living beings are coming out. You are trying to kill them, and they are trying to manufacture living being in the laboratory. And take credit. Where is the credit to you? Already millions and trillions are daily coming. Befooling men. They are fools and befooling men, that's all. This is their business.
Prabhupāda: So therefore must be the real center. Nobody is paying us any salary, superficially. But why we are working? (break) Therefore the slavery was there—"You must work." Those who are śūdras will not work. Therefore the slavery was there. (break)
Ādi-keśava: In this country, when they had the slavery, the masters were not qualified either.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. That is the defect. Either the master is defective or the servant is defective or the system is defective. That is material world. Doṣa-catuḥsthānī, four faults: mistake, illusion, cheating, and imperfectness. (break) ...the struggle for existence—one mistake after one mistake, one illusion after one, one imperfectness after another. Like that, it is going on. (break)
Mādhavānanda: It's our duty in society to show everyone how to work for Kṛṣṇa and become happy in life.
Prabhupāda: That is yajña. To work for Kṛṣṇa means yajña. Yajñarthe karma: "For yajña, performing yajña, one has to work." To work for Kṛṣṇa means yajña. That is performance of yajña. (break) ...Communistic idea is borrowing this idea from... But because they are imperfect, they have made center, state. And because it is imperfect, it is not successful. They have made center the state. (break) Tamo-guṇa means laziness and sleep. The śūdras, they are in laziness and sleep. So if they have got something to eat, they will not work. Laziness. Or eat more and sleep. This is tamo-guṇa. And rajo-guṇa means they are working for sense gratification. That is also useless. Tamo-guṇa is laziness and sleeping, and rajo-guṇa means working foolishly or for sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Simply it is prize post. Nobody does anything. Simply they draw salary. All these ministers, they do nothing. Just like Indira Gandhi is supposed to be very big plan-maker. So what she has done for the people? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi)
Harikeśa: Whenever we have to go to a government office, there are six men sitting, and only one is doing work, and all are getting salaries.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Last time we stayed where? Nearby?
Kartikeya: Mehtabhai Patel's. It is a little bit away from this place, only one mile from here. That Dr. Patel and another Dr. Patel is there.
Prabhupāda: His father-in-law?
Kartikeya: Father-in-law. P.M. Patel. (break) They were trying to arrange if you'll come. (break)
Girirāja: One boy said he wants to join.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they should join. All will go to hell. That is not good. At least one or two may be saved. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Prized post only. Governors, the embassies, this is... These are invented to satisfy the agitators, politicians, because the opposite party will agitate.
Brahmānanda: So give them some house and some post.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give them some. That's all. It has no use. They do not do anything. Simply hold that post and get nice house, nice salary, servants, honor, and sometimes they are called and make some speech. That's all. And whatever nonsense he may be, if he is governor, then everyone will respect him. That's all. And as soon as the same man is not governor, nobody goes to kick on his face. I have seen so many governors. When they retire, nobody... (aside:) Where is that cap? Nobody cares.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is this desire for material happiness the cause of material attachment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. When they forget to serve Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy this material world... Don't you see that these Māyāvādī philosophers are trying for liberation, and still, they are expecting to become God. That is another desire. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. The high ambition, to become God or equal to God, that is going on, struggle for existence.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that “Don’t talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don’t cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all.” That is to be done.
Harikeśa: “Well, with all our research we’re finding cures to so many diseases. With our research…”
Prabhupāda: That, you nonsense, you go on doing, but no disease is stopped. You… Futile attempt.
Harikeśa: "But twenty years ago there was so much smallpox everywhere. But now…"
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. You have stopped smallpox, but you have increased cancer. So what is the use?
Harikeśa: "Now we are finding a cure for that also."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Go on working like ass, (laughs) without any… Even if you have some medicine for disease, you cannot stop disease. You cannot stop death.
Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell. Hell, simply hell. The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the capitalist class of India, they have learned how to exploit only.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the government accept you as guide, then everything will be all right. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Tell them that "We are not going to take any salary. You simply take our advice, and govern." The modern legislative assembly, they should be composed of first-class brāhmaṇas, no salary. Then the government will be first-class. All of them are after money; therefore they are trying to capture the power. They have no idea, no desire for the well-being of the citizens. (break) ...this tree? Dates?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Called palmetto tree. Palmetto tree. Not fruit-bearing. Not fruit-bearing.
Prabhupāda: (Break)...beyond the sun.
Indian man: Beyond the sun. How would you explain about eclipse which we get?
Prabhupāda: That you ask some astronomer. I am not astronomer. But I understand from Vedic scripture that moon is beyond the sun.
Prabhupāda: That is their... That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease-imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they'll claim they can do. "Pay me my salary."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make...
Prabhupāda: Now, that they... When they admit, "Oh, this law is made (heavy static) ," then they come to senses.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.
Harikeśa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.
Prabhupāda: No, they will not accept that. That they will not accept.
Harikeśa: "In the future we will pay you."
Tejās: When you find the chemicals.
Prabhupāda: "Now you starve. In future I shall pay." "How shall I eat?" "Now you starve. In future you'll get payment." You do not know what is the chemical, how it is acting, and depending on your future knowledge, and still, you are talking like a very great scientist. This rascaldom should be stopped by kicking on their face. Huh? So? Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, do you agree?
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (break) ...if they know the chemicals, why they open deaf and dumb school? Let the chemical be injected and they will be cured from dumbness and deafness. And where is that chemical? Hm?
Harikeśa: I mean, after all, isn't it just a matter of time, because we've already invented new skin now.
Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everyone is trying to exploit you. They freely say, the rickshawalla, that they will charge five hundred rupees per bīghā to others and they will charge four thousand rupees to you. This is going on. Don't allow them to paint unless the rate is settled.
Bhavānanda: We had one day guard on our front gate last week. He worked for three days. His monthly salary was forty rupees plus his meals. So after he was here for three days the rickshawallas, they said, "Why you are working for them for so little money? They are so wealthy." And he left.
Prabhupāda: Who is supervising this department?
Bhavānanda: Tapomaya.
Prabhupāda: Where is Tapomaya? (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all our, for our sugarcane?
Tapomāyā: Another two.... (break)
Prabhupāda: So we shall pay reasonable price for all the lands.
Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."
Harikesa: Well, then the other will just send some boats over, and all the men will get out while they're flying in the sky, and they'll just take over the country by manual soldiers.
Prabhupāda: No. As soon as atom bomb is..., everything is finished. There will be no opportunity. That is their thinking, "Who will drop the atom bomb first, he will be winner." That's all. In Russia they are adopting this means. They are releasing all the soldiers for other work. What is the use of keeping so many men idle without any work and maintain them, high salary, occupy big, big cantonment camps?
Harikesa: In America the army builds roads and bridges and things.
Prabhupāda: That's utilization. Why they should be paid for nothing?
Indian man: The small farmers who has a few acres of land, they are selling to a party, and they are getting a money. They knew that "After two or three years we will pose our set-up to the government that 'We are landless,' and the government will give us some money."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: "We will get the money now and we will also get the land."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: So this is the material side. Similarly, spiritual side also, the same. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). If the sādhu-saṅga is there, then gradually he becomes a devotee.
Jayapatākā: (break) ...looking for a job. He worked for two months and then became devotee. He never took even salary.
Prabhupāda: Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). This is the process. If one comes in contact with devotee or God, then he is simply satisfied by the service. No return. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce. (break) ...guru?
Sudāmā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these workers are coming.
Prabhupāda: Ghosh wanted to give us land that side for making a path to the Ganges.
Jayapatākā: Sell us.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So we have got a plan beginning from this gate up to the Ganges. If we get land we can do that. (break) Foundation stone in Nellore can be transferred to Madras?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what I'm going to do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One year's salary for an average man.
Hṛdayānanda: A worker.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lakhpati. Here they call, lakhpati. Lakhpati means owner of 100,000 rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lakhpati.
Prabhupāda: So what is this lakhpati there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This fog appears just like an ocean, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It looks just like the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Frozen. Frozen ocean. Means they are defeated; they are coming down. By the sun they are defeated. They were high. "Now go down." Now it will be finished.
Dr. Patel: United States are giving also what we call job visa.
Prabhupāda: No, not only. Everywhere I have seen. One who is qualified, he gets very easily job in Europe or America, high salary. They get cheaper. Yes. What the Americans will accept for two thousand dollars, Indians will accept at seven hundred dollars.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When Indians were asked to leave Uganda, the Canadian government offered free passage, but only to persons who had the material qualifications they wanted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Qualified man is very much welcome in foreign countries. I have seen. In Canada, in America, in England, in Germany, everywhere. Because they have got so many jobs, they require so many qualified men. And here where is so many jobs?
Dr. Patel: There are so many qualified men, but no jobs.
Prabhupāda: No jobs.
Prabhupāda: You see these two things especially, that they.... English is their mother tongue, mother language. They can easily become English scholar very easily. And Sanskrit language is no difficulty. Read and write, read and write, then he will learn. Our education in Sanskrit was in college. Of course, I was the best student in my class of Sanskrit. I was standing first. But we are not like the so-called Sanskrit scholars. But for our purpose we can read and write, that's all. Similarly, we don't want any very learned scholars, Sanskrit grammarian to manufacture jugglery of words, meanings. No, we don't want that. Simply we can conduct our business, that's all. Just like Marwaris, they, their education is up to their business understanding, that's all. They don't want to be scholars or technologists. You won't find in big, big Marwari family they have become a doctor, engineer or technologist, no. But in business dealings they are first class. (laughs) That they train. I had one Marwari friend in Calcutta. He was a very rich businessman and has got several (indistinct). So sometimes I went to his house. I saw that he had engaged a Sanskrit paṇḍita and an English teacher. That's all. So I asked him, "You don't send your children to school?" "No, no, no, no. I..." If we require some technologist, we can purchase. You pay some money; so many technologists you will get, M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., C.H.C. All right, take payment and do business (indistinct). They employ very, very, very large salary. But on the head, management, their own sons, grandsons.
Prabhupāda: He was describing about that factory. So they are working in the factory, what do they care for hell? Even if we go to hell, they will get some good salary, that's all. Money required, then I can drink nicely. The standard is there. Now this qualification, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir, what is that? It does not strike them at all, these qualities are high qualities. Is it not? This is the... What is the translation?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Fearlessness, purification of one's existence."
Prabhupāda: And who is fearless? Everyone is fearful. And fearlessness is good quality, who understands it? Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca, this is animal life. To eat, sleep, sex and become fearful, that is animal life. And one has to become fearless. So who cares for it? They are thinking to become fearless means to keep gun. That is also one way. Then, fearlessness and...?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Purification of one's existence."
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary. He's thinking, "I am so busy and working so hard. I am not getting any good salary. And this man is sitting only on the bench and he's getting so fat salary." So therefore this is question like that. The Vedic civilization is for self-realization. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Kovido means very learned. He'll simply try for that thing which was not received, which was not achieved in other life. That means self-realization. Just like we are sometimes charged, "escape." What is the charge?
Devotee: We are escaping from reality.
Prabhupāda: In this way they are getting high salary, and we have to pay tax for that, income tax. This is going on. That means roguism. We have got money. Government will take it away and pay these rascals, scientific research. There are so many foundations in your country. If you ask them, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa conscious," "No, no, no, we don't pay for anything. We pay to the scientists." They will say.
Rādhāvallabha: Now they are going to Mars.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: Now they are going to Mars planet. They have two ships heading for Mars, and they want one to land on July 4th.
Prabhupāda: It has already started?
Rādhāvallabha: Yes. Now they have given up on the moon. Now it is Mars.
Prabhupāda: And the fools are paying for that.
Darby: They can make one chemical which leaves the life.
Prabhupāda: Not only that: if you are a sane man, you analyze your body. Now find out where is life. Beginning analysis is the breathing. You take... Now a man is dead. Somebody says, "Now, because his breathing is stopped, therefore he is dead." So what is this breathing? It is simply a little air. So put some machine, and the air may come and go and give him life. Take anything, breathing, then you take blood, then you take skin, then you take muscle, then you take bone, then take your stool, urine, find out life. Is it possible? Then why do you say that life is combination of chemicals? You take this blood, urine and stool, what is called, bone and muscle and air, what is combination, and produce another man. So they are talking this nonsense, and nonsense people are accepting. And they are being paid for, high salary, for talking this nonsense at the cost of the taxpayer.
Prabhupāda: They have finished all their talks. So far as I know, these so-called scientists, they have finished their business. Now they have no other means than to bluff. To get their salary.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually the research is also getting more and more difficult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, what they'll research? Everything finished.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their imagination is running out.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the ideas are running out. That's why now they are doing on the biological sciences mainly.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is another nonsense. Why they are checking the flow?
Prabhupāda: That, they can say anything, but they are doing everything in Arizona.
Vipina: What is the point then, Prabhupāda? Just to take money and use it some other way?
Prabhupāda: No, no, just to cheat people that they are very big scientists, give them fat salary. That's all. But what people will benefit by this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to study whether there is life there or not.
Prabhupāda: There is life, you do not know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are not sure yet.
Prabhupāda: There is life everywhere. We can say from the śāstra. There cannot be any place vacant. It is not possible. Must be life there. All planets are vacant, simply this planet is congested, overpopulation. What is this nonsense? What is the difference between this planet and other planets, chemically or physiologically?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say there are differences.
Prabhupāda: They know that they're talking nonsense, but they still want to cheat, to get their salary, that's all. This is the position.
Hari-śauri: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Because they know, we can cheat these rascals, government. They are all rascals, we can simply talk in some bombastic words (speaks gibberish). They'll believe it. This is going on. All imperfect knowledge.
Hari-śauri: If they don't produce some new theory, or some new discovery...
Prabhupāda: That means they prove their own foolishness. Why do you produce new theory? If there is perfect knowledge? That proves their foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also called intellectual exercise.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense. Suppose in the laboratory you make one living being. So what is credit to them? The living entities are coming, many millions...
Devotee: (2): You gave the story about the dog...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): ...barking?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then this is going on. They cannot do anything, and still they are drawing high salary. Especially when they say that life is made of chemicals and they cannot experimentally prove it. How bluffing it is. We say a simple thing, that "Don't talk of big, big life. You just produce from the egg, because egg you require so many chicken to cut their throat. So produce it from chemicals." Why do they not do it? Is anyone to answer this? If life is chemical combination, you see in the egg there is some white substance, some yellow substance, so you analyze and find out what are the chemicals and combine it and color it yellow and pack up in a cellulose cover, and then put it, bring life. Why they cannot do it? Where is the science? Simply talking big, big words? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Boyd: What do I think? Well, it's very difficult at this particular time. It hasn't been done yet; it's been claimed, as you say. Yet we as individuals request them to do that, for some reason.
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless they do that, what is the use? What is the use of your big, big talking?
Vipina: He's thinking that sometime they'll do it in the future.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Rāmeśvara: Some ambulance. Somebody is sick. Right now in New York City there is a big strike. The people who work in the hospitals, they refuse to work. They want more salary.
Prabhupāda: What can be done? Price raising, they want all comforts.
Rāmeśvara: So if someone is sick they will not take him to the hospital because there is no one to take care of him there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This school is called Amsterdam School, Prabhupāda, because this is Amsterdam Avenue.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very funny that Ninth Avenue turns into Amsterdam Avenue at this point. Ninth Avenue becomes Amsterdam Avenue on about Sixtieth Street.
Prabhupāda: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business, and getting high salary, that's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him some chemicals. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.
Jayādvaita: They are freezing the bodies sometimes, so that in the future when they perfect that ability, they'll revive these dead bodies and they'll live again.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...things are going on.
Prabhupāda: But he... He is giving service to Kṛṣṇa. He's not charging anything. If we appoint some bookseller, you have to pay, but we haven't got to pay. Out of his love for Kṛṣṇa he's doing that.
Rāmeśvara: See, our men who distribute these books, they do not receive salary.
Bali-mardana: It's like welfare work.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign of love. That is in material field also. There are so many philosophers, scientists and artists, they have done out of love for their subject matter, not for payment. That is love.
Bali-mardana: But aren't they also purified spiritually by doing this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This spiritual realization means the more you give service to God, you become spiritually profited, in any way.
Interviewer: What are some of the other, aside from...? I mean, I see people selling things. What other practices are involved?
Prabhupāda: Then you stay one day, whole day and night, and see practically, from morning four o'clock to night ten o'clock, how we are engaged in different practices.
Prabhupāda: We are not idle preachers, we are working. All, very hard, more than the karmīs.
Rāmeśvara: These men, they go out to engage people in taking our books maybe twelve hours a day sometimes, ten hours a day, without any salary.
Prabhupāda: I am now eighty years old, I am working twenty-four hours. I think I work more than my young disciples (laughter).
Bali-mardana: Oh yes, definitely.
Prabhupāda: I work at night.
Rāmeśvara: It is hard to keep up with Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: Very difficult.
Prabhupāda: We are not idle creatures.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's very good boy.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And he's also working as a computer man, very good job.
Prabhupāda: Oh, a good salary?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, very good salary.
Prabhupāda: He knows computer?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Yes, he's good electrician. So where he is employed?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's employed with one of my clients.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What salary?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Sperry, Sperry Univac.
Prabhupāda: What salary he is getting?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Ah, he's getting about twelve, thirteen hundred dollars now.
Prabhupāda: Salary? Yes. He was getting in America six hundred. (laughs) Getting double.
Prabhupāda: Science means how to make the motorcar wheel, that's all. This is their science.
Bhūgarbha: In America, the professors complain to us. When we try to sell them personal books, they should take books themselves, they say that the salary of a college professor in America is the same as the salary of a waiter in some hotel. That is the respect they are given.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are called churchmouse. Churchmouse. A mouse in the church, what he'll eat? He's in a householder's place, a mouse is there, he can eat something. But church, nobody's eating there. Simply dust, that's all. (laughter) Churchmouse. Any new mail?
Harikeśa: Stacks of it. Quite a lot.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Where from?
Harikeśa: Want to go over it now? Shall we go over everything now?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.
Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. Our purpose will be served anywhere. So, try to concentrate in this village organization life. Full of anxieties, city life. The houses already there, if you repair them nicely then it is a very nice place. They're gradually being repaired.
Bhagavān: Yes. No one is getting any salary here, they are just working and taking...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. Why salary? Kṛṣṇa's servant. We are eternal servant. That is the beauty of our institution. We have no hired men. Unless one is sincere, why he'll work? What is the time now?
Bhagavān: Eight-thirty.
Prabhupāda: I think it is stopped. Just see how beautifully it is colored. This sense, aesthetic sense. Kṛṣṇa knows how it will become beautiful. Svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Construction—eh?—of the flower. And there is no intelligence.
Hari-śauri: Chance.
Prabhupāda: So beat them with shoes and when they protest, "Oh, it is chance, don't mind. It is by chance I am beating." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Still half a rupee.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Government pays half on the price, more than half the price. That is why if Iranian poor people, with very little salary, they can survive. They can eat this bread.
Nava-yauvana: We had asked Praṇava to help arrange for a cook to come here. We'd asked help to arrange for a cook, so we could open a small prasāda restaurant. And he's written back that "I have made arrangements for a cook, and also I would like to come."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We can get someone else. (break) ...strong but dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Not dangerous if the both of them become devotee.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: If they understand the purpose of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise it is dangerous
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They can fool each other.
Prabhupāda: That is generally done. Wife increases the responsibility. Strī-vistāra. But still one has to maintain wife. A brahmacārī has no responsibility. His only responsibility is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But a gṛhastha has many responsibilities. "There is the children, I have to give them education, see that they're well situated."
Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident.
Prabhupāda: We shall like that they will come here and stay and remain our twenty-four hours' son. That is very good also.
Mahāṁśa: Only thing is that in the beginning, because they do not know us very well, they will demand some salary. I told you previously that now I am paying them hundred rupees and 125 rupees for family.
Prabhupāda: So why 125? Hundred rupees sufficient. If they are eating and we are giving shelter, then a hundred rupees sufficient.
Mahāṁśa: Hundred rupees... If they have a family, then his wife works also and his children who are grown up, they all work. Everyone works.
Prabhupāda: So they'll also work. So that you have to decide. Manage so that there is no misunderstanding. Simply management required. So you... The best thing is that you should sit together...
Tejas: Without fail we have to meet every evening. There shouldn't be any... Without fail every evening we should meet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be all right.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It will never be fulfilled, but still, they will make plan. The Napoleon made a plan. Hitler made a plan. Churchill made a plan. Gandhi made a plan. Mussolini made a plan. But the plan and planmaker—all washed away. Things are going on as it is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Don't make plan. Take to My plan. You'll be happy. I'll give you." This planmaking... Our government has got planning commission. The planning commission has brought people in such a condition that they are dying of starvation. And they are taking salary, big, big, fat salary. This is going on.
Mr. Asnani: And taking share from the black market also.
Prabhupāda: How you can expect good wishes from such persons? Very precarious condition. Your son, you take care. Now, as soon as you make a committee to take care of your son, then everything is finished. Is it not? The committee members will finish the son and the son's maintenance and everything. But that is going on. Formerly there was one monarch. He was acting according to the Vedic instruction. So he was responsible. And if there are many votes, by vote a government, a combination of plunderers, what they will take care of the people? It is impossible. Otherwise why there was need of dragging down Nixon? He was elected, wrong elected. Wrong must be. The people are wrong. They do not know who is the right man. Any rascal makes some intrigue, and he gets vote. And then they detect, "Oh, he's the wrong man." Again another is taken. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). And what is the guarantee that another man is right? Because the process is wrong.
Gargamuni: No, we'll get a retired man. They'd love the work. Just like we have that engineer. He's a retired engineer. We pay him some small salary...
Prabhupāda: Why you want to go by boat to the coast?
Gargamuni: Because you can't get by road. There's no roads. They're dirt roads. Many of the villages you can't get to except along the water routes.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But so far I know, it is very rough, Bay of Bengal.
Gargamuni: Well, we can invest... I know these ships in Calcutta. I saw at the pier at least five or six of these ships, these fishing boats, and they go up and down. I know if we take a...
Prabhupāda: No, if you get a big boat, that is all right, ferry boat. But if you get a small boat, the sea is very rough.
Prabhupāda: This is very good engagement, very good engagement. Go door to door. I don't mind if you no sell. But you have gone. That's all. I don't mind. It is not business, that "Because you could not sell anything, your salary will be dismissed." No. There is no such question.
Rāmeśvara: But then they feel dissatisfied. Then they would prefer to do something else where they can perform better. They can accomplish something more.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no, no.
Hari-śauri: Our devotees tend to work on a fruitive basis.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: If they don't get some result from their activity, they become discouraged.
Rāmeśvara: In other words, sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Now, who said that "You don't bring money"? But I am not discouraging you, even if you don't bring money.
Prabhupāda: Because they cannot get here suitable job.
Rāmeśvara: No salary.
Gargamuni: I read in the paper that India lost $850,000,000 by the brain drain because all of its intelligentsia is leaving.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: They're going to Europe and America.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Especially America.
Prabhupāda: No, Canada also. Canada, I have seen in the university. Almost majority of the professors, they are Indian. Yes. All over the world they like Indians. They take small salary. For them it is high salary, but for Europe, America, it is cheaper. And they're intelligent, so they give service. I was given this permanent residence...
Gargamuni: Yes, in Canada.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Seeing my books. That Consulate General in Montreal, he, when he read my The Teachings of Lord Caitanya, he immediately became attracted.
Rāmeśvara: And one thing about government that we see, at least in America, is that each time there is an election the candidates may make so many pledges, "I think I'll go this way."
Prabhupāda: No, election is going on under some rules and regulations, so you can make election under Kṛṣṇa conscious government rules and regulations. That can be done. Legislative assembly, the senators, they must be all first-class brāhmaṇas. Otherwise he cannot be elected. This is should be introduced. Unless one is following the brahminical principles, he cannot be elected. He must give up these four principles of sinful life. He should not accept any salary. Very much learned scholar in Vedic literature. Then he will be elected.
Rāmeśvara: That will happen one day.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will guide the whole nation. The rascals, anyway, the naked and prostitute-hunter, what they can do? These third-class, fourth-class, tenth-class men are being elected. There is no happiness. There is no solution of problems. All tenth-class men. I directly challenged one gentleman that "You are all tenth-class men." Pāpa... Pāpa...
Hari-śauri: That man in Perth.
Prabhupāda: "There is no first-class man now governing the situation. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class. There is no first-class man." I challenged him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: "They are in the bar." He says they all go to the hotel. They get paid high salary. They go to the hotel, they drink and they have prostitute. He told me this.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Gargamuni: I said, "Just see." And these are so-called big professors.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Authors of books. He said, "They will not purchase. But I think these are valuable. Therefore I am purchasing." He told me this.
Prabhupāda: This is the fact.
Gargamuni: So all of these men are nonsense. But people accept their...
Prabhupāda: So we have no business to print other books of Gosvāmī literature.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So he was taking every fortnightly 150 dollars by telephone, and Rāyarāma, he was paying. He took about five hundred, six hundred dollars and did not do anything, simply extending the date. The lawyers will plunder. The government men will plunder. The physician will plunder. Ordinary dealing, they will plunder. The shopkeepers will plunder. The... And bank will say that "You take money. You pay your bills. We'll give you loan, we'll charge interest. And when you get your salary, then you have to deposit it in the bank." And they'll adjust. And again you are penniless. Again you take loan. The social arrangement is so made that you simply depend on loan. And to earn this money you'll have to go five hundred miles away from your home, early in the morning, in the car.
Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."
Prabhupāda: These poor Japanese, in two, three wars they attempted to expand. They are very poor in their land. Practically they have no place, very poor. Only by some technical knowledge they are maintaining. Otherwise they have no food, no shelter. Very poor country. I have studied. The Dai Nippon directors, they are living in a thatched house. And their system is: big company, they supply everything—food, cloth, medicine, children's education, and little salary. So people do not leave the post.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Because their whole life is there.
Prabhupāda: They are not independent. Fully dependent on the employer. So they give poor salary. Dai Nippon has their own hospital, own education, and everything, big industry. And little salary, that's all. So whatever house they allot, they have to accept. And I have seen the director living in a cottage like this almost. So Japanese actually they are poor. Only the capitalists, they have got... Therefore their yen value... You go to purchase—"Two thousand yen." You'll be surprised, "So much paying!" But it has no value. "One million yen." (laughs) In the beginning I... "What is this nonsense? So much?"
Hari-śauri: Our devotees, Gurukṛpā's party, they're talking about they collect a hundred thousand, eighty thousand, but it means, that means...
Prabhupāda: It means few dollars.
Prabhupāda: Nobody, no clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer, big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor, poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they thought, "Oh, how beneficial the English, British Company. They're giving us so much facility." And English education, they wanted to conduct their office affairs. They required some clerk. They did not want any highly educated. "Work here—ABCD—that's all. 'Yes, no, very good.' Bas." (laughs) So... And as soon as you learn "Yes, no, very good," you get fifty rupees' salary. So they gave up living in... That time fifty rupees is now five thousand. Yes. So they all entered school, English education—"ABCD, yes, no, very good. Bas." And this is British policy. Otherwise India was very happy.
Prabhupāda: He's earning salary. That's all.
Hari-śauri: Trying to make a name for himself. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Money. Unless he makes devices and talks very overintelligently, how he'll get money? Just like the so-called scientist says and doctor says, big, big jugglery of words, and they get money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have their doctors and psychiatrists now. Just as we are getting armed with so many statements, they are also gathering together their groups of doctors and psychiatrists to all attest to the fact. But they have nothing to say. They're trying to get behind them some men, but the men are not of as much consequence as our people are. But then you see another thing they do is they cause trouble through other processes. For instance, they will audit the accounts, look into the Society's money, and they'll try to...
Prabhupāda: They'll try to give us trouble in so many ways.
Ādi-keśava: ...they can't think that anybody else has anything better.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to wash the stool. "Yes, it is brainwash." Tell them that. This is the truth actually. "You do not know what is the aim of your life. You are claiming, 'human being.' The dog does not know what is the aim of life. The dog is eating, sleeping, having sex and defense. Your whole education system is based on these four principles. Where is that university which is teaching more than this? You have got technological knowledge. Then what is the purpose? The purpose is how you'll get good bread. That's all, eating. What more? Suppose you have become very good technologist, good title. But what is the aim? You get good salary and eating. That's all, nothing more than that. Or sleeping, good apartment. Or sex, very nice girl." (aside:) Come on. "What else you have got by this education? Nothing... Nowhere it is taught that 'You are eternal. You are suffering in this way.' Where is that education?"
Ādi-keśava: They don't have it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dialectical Spiritualism. I think Harikeśa was working on that, wasn't he, when he was here...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is finished. It was being edited by...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, okay, well, I'll write and ask.
Prabhupāda: ...Hayagrīva. But he is doing nothing and taking money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they stopped his salary now. "18) The US BBT will experiment with importation of books from India as soon as practical. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa will make further efforts to increase the quality."
Prabhupāda: Yes, quality must be there. It is not yet standard. Unless quality is improved, it cannot be exported and spoil the market.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. So those were the resolutions we passed, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Mr. Rajda: Last time we had talked about this, and in Delhi, actually, I was on the verge of arranging the meeting, but never here. But then our Girirāja telephoned me, and in deference to your health we didn't arrange that meeting in Delhi. When Morarji-bhai is coming here, we shall see that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items.
Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking, within the temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the gṛhastha living together with wife. I don't think there's any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be...
Prabhupāda: Adjoining buildings... But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that.
Prabhupāda: But that is temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or... No, they are earning their own way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it's the same as paying a salary.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary.
Prabhupāda: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—"All right, you take apartment."
Prabhupāda: You take prasādam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairāgya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life...
Prabhupāda: Because his service is essential.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that has to be determined very strictly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.
Prabhupāda: Hm hm. So he's trying to practice... Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he'll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional... So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe... But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate.
Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law.
Prabhupāda: All the devotees approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, thinking that "He must... The king will excuse him." He never agreed. "Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done something wrong, then let him..." Of course, he was saved and protected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the examples that... Simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. But if they are actually respectful, we can ask them. There is... But if it is difficult job... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanām atha yoṣit... (CC Madhya 11.8). We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the principles taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Girirāja: So that principle about living together and salary...
Prabhupāda: That is...
Girirāja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society.
Girirāja: I know. Since I've been preaching more, I've been able to see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle people. I know you've been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really sincere workers can stay.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise no need. We need their service, but not by being salaried. That is not good. (end)
Rāmeśvara: Yes. Actually even in Los Angeles, where there is a small settlement, the entire Indian population is supporting us. They have their own societies, Gujarat, Maharastran, but all of them have voted to endorse our Ratha-yātrā and to support it with all their facilities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll do. Indians and Americans, they are well-to-do. In foreign countries, everywhere, I see, Indians, their position is better than in India. In your country also. Indians in foreign countries, they get more facilities. Personally also, I could not do here in India in spite of twenty-three years. And as soon as I went to America, all facilities came to me. Of course, it took some time. That takes some... Indian, the worst government and everything is crippled, crippled. People are hampered. And the government servant, they're simply wasting time and drawing big, big salary. This is India. Very precarious condition. Fighting, party, that party, that party. Because India's original culture is very, very strong, despite all these disadvantages, they are still standing, mass of people. Otherwise India's government is worthless. Hm? What do you think?
Rāmeśvara: It's obvious.
Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees (indistinct) a week.
Prabhupāda: Now here is "O sages," and the word meaning is "of the munis." Just see. Such a rascal Sanskrit scholar. Here it is addressed, sambodhana, and they touch(?) it—"munayaḥ—of the munis." It is very risky to give to them for editorial direction. Little learning is dangerous. However proper Sanskrit scholar, little learning, dangerous. Immediately they become very big scholars, high salaried, and write all nonsense. Who they are? (pause) Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "O sages, I have been..."
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot be reliable. They can do more harm. Just see here the fun(?).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. We're finding out in the Fifth Canto that there're words that are so off, the meaning is completely changed, completely changed. I mean, in the three chapters that we read, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja made at least half a dozen corrections of serious corrections. They had changed the meaning.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of the mistakes in the numbers, the figures.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, they're all...
Prabhupāda: So how they can be reliable, so-called, this way...? (background whispering) Hm?
Yaśodā-nandana: In the Gurukula we were teaching Īśopaniṣad class to the children.
Prabhupāda: This is simply anarthas, unnecessary creating unhappiness. Unnecessary.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But with Kṛṣṇa, all those things you describe become happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa makes adjustment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and He is giving advice that "Do like this. You'll be happy in this life and next."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually we work all day long—no salary, no vacation—and we're...
Prabhupāda: Still, they are happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...feeling ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Every letter I receive from my disciple, how happy they are, it is explained.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every letter it's the same.
Prabhupāda: Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme...
Devotees: Prabhu sei.
Prabhupāda: Prabhu sei. So this eye-opening is given by guru. Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei. Then?
Śatadhanya: Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito.
Prabhupāda: Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito. Oh, he understands, "This is the way of happiness." Śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, ei sei uttama-gati, ār nā koriho mane āśā. That if one gets just guide, then that is happiness. Otherwise there is no happiness. Śrī-guru-caraṇa-padma, kevala-bhakati-sadma... Hm?
Bhakti-caru: Bandoṅ mui sāvadhāna...
Prabhupāda: One man is kneading flour, five sers, and he's getting two hundred rupees' salary, and paratha and halavā. This is management, going on. Now today it has been checked. They are eating paratha and our men are starving. He is getting two hundred rupees, three hundred rupees. This is management. What can be done? And he has... Three dozen manager, four dozen cook. This is... That's all. I am giving you report which he has given to me. Money is squandered like anything, and live blindly, and "Still, I want everything for myself." Everything is in my notice. I can feel now actually (indistinct) is coming. Anyway, we want... In India, the affairs are most mismanaged. That we see. In foreign countries they are doing very nice. In New York, in Los Angeles, in Chicago. Now there is Toronto report. This Toronto report... I do not know how things are managed there very nicely, and here..., three dozen cook. "Too many cooks spoil the broth."
Girirāja: "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, You are known as Yogeśvara, the master of all mystic powers. So it is very easy for You to perform the impossible, as You have done many times in the past. By Your merciful glance You restored life to the boys and cows who had died by drinking the water of the Yamunā River which was poisoned by Kāliya. And You swallowed the devastating forest fire to protect the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. In the rāsa dance You expanded Yourself to be simultaneously present by the side of each gopī. And as guru-dakṣiṇā, You recovered the dead son of Your teacher. When the hunchback maidservant of Kaṁsa smeared You with sandalwood pulp, You made her straight and beautiful. And as a householder in Dvārakā, You expanded Yourself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas and simultaneously satisfied all of Your sixteen thousand wives. When Sudāmā Brāhmaṇa offered You chipped rice, You transformed his poor cottage into a beautiful palace suitable for the king of heaven. And to satisfy Mother Devakī, You returned her six dead sons from the kingdom of Bali. To appease the Dvārakā brāhmaṇa, You also reclaimed his dead sons from Mahā-Viṣṇu. When Śrīla Prabhupāda sat with seven dollars under a tree in Tompkins Square Park, You transformed that tree into so many royal palaces, and You expanded that seven dollars into millions of dollars. And when Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke Your message, You turned the mlecchas and caṇḍālas into Your devotees. And when Śrīla Prabhupāda went all by himself to sell his Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam volumes, You expanded him into ten thousand loving salesmen who are working day and night without asking any salary, and You expanded his suitcase of books into fifty-five million pieces of literature in twenty-three different languages. And when Hare Kṛṣṇa Land was lost to the demons, You returned it to His Divine Grace. So from these examples we can understand that for You, the impossible is not difficult, but rather, You have performed so many impossible feats for Your devotees. Therefore if You desire, please give Śrīla Prabhupāda a new body."
Prabhupāda: Excellent. Very... Foundation, back to Godhead. I am getting little glimpse, He may agree to your prayer, yes.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere dull-headed, intelligent... You are working at computer?
Dayānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So, what salary they gave?
Dayānanda: Little over a thousand dollars in a month, about 1,200 dollars.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So how you are spending that money?
Dayānanda: Now I live in my own apartment, I'm giving fifty percent to the ISKCON Tehran projects, and fifty percent I keep for maintenance.
Prabhupāda: So there is no scarcity? Eh?
Dayānanda: No, there's no scarcity, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In my spare time I am working in the restaurant, helping to manage the restaurant.
Prabhupāda: It is a big company?
Dayānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Bhavānanda: Many handloomers. So we have designs to expand that into a very large area, and most of it will be exported to our temples and devotees all around the world. And all of the handloom workers, they're devotees so they don't take any salary. None of us take any salary. And they get nice rooming and full prasādam and their children are educated. All medicine, everything is supplied to them.
Śrī Nārāyaṇa: You could also, perhaps, introduce this new spinning wheel for the yarn. At present you must be purchasing yarn from the mills.
Bhavānanda: Yes.
Śrī Nārāyaṇa: But have you seen this small nice carakā, spinning wheel?
Bhavānanda: Well, we do our own spinning.
Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Spinning also?
Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. We're training up those who have children... They're trained in the varṇāśrama system. Some of the children in the school have a scholastic bent of mind, so they're educated in Sanskrit and higher studies. Some of them have a vaiśya bent of mind, and they work in the gośāla helping to develop..., milk the cows. Some are... Their parents are working in the handloom. They also have that desire, so they're trained to be handloomers. In this way we will be able to develop a city of fifty thousand devotees.
Śrī Bajaj: Let us not overstrain him and whatever if... He'll feel tired.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I met him at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we were there. He came a couple of times, very nice gentleman. He's working without any salary. Simply he asked for a room, and he wants to devote his life. Real gentleman. He's more British than any Britisher I've ever met.
Prabhupāda: Forty years?
Girirāja: Well, he's about, I think, sixty years old now. And when he was a young man of twenty he was the aide-de-camp of the viceroy. And I think he was also the secretary to the governor of Punjab when it was under the British.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He met with Gandhi and all of these other leaders.
Girirāja: Then, just after I left... Before that, I spoke to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and he was arranging for Mahāṁśa Swami and Mr. Polareddy to meet the President of India to invite him to be the chief guest because Mr. Polareddy of Hyderabad knows the present President. And then, so far as the publicity for the opening, we felt that we should actually fix up the chief guest first, because if some big person like the President comes, that will be an important part of the wording of the invitation and the other publicity.
Prabhupāda: So finishing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Construction?
Girirāja: Well, the building was not finished.
| Page Title: | Salary (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 29 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=130, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 130 |