Expressions researched:
"machine"
|"machine's"
|"machinery"
|"machines"
Yogi Amrit Desai: Just information and a memory.
Prabhupāda: They cannot give any real position. They are studying so many molecules, so many atoms, so many this, so many... They are mixing... They are... That is already going on. How it is going on? Who has set up the machine going on? That they do not know.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. They don't know the key part of it.
Prabhupāda: Neither they can set up similar arrangement. They're simply studying.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what I'm saying. No, I'm just saying by increased run how much can you save? So I imagine you save about three paisa, four paisa more per book. It's not enough to warrant extra investment. I have analyzed the difference between doing large print runs India and America. In America and Europe labor is very expensive. So to them, to stop the machine in between and start again, it's very expensive, so it makes a lot of difference. But in India labor is cheap. So for them to stop the machine in between and then start again, it's not so expensive. So the ceiling is not as great as the extra investment you have to put in. Therefore I'm not doing large run except where it's absolutely necessary.
Prabhupāda: No. Items which are selling, that we can do because...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Like Bhagavad-gītā we did one lakh.
Prabhupāda: ...to wait means that waste of time.
Prabhupāda: "Easy Journey to Other Planets. So this is a different culture, how to go to other planetary system, how to transfer the soul from one body to another. In other planets there are also living entities. One can transfer himself, after giving up this body, to anywhere he likes without any help of the sputnik, and without the help of the sputnik or any flying machine. This is the mystic system unknown to the world, but it is authorized in the Vedas, original culture of the human civilization."
Hari-śauri: It's on the tape. I'm recording it too.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oriya. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: He has writing... That machine... I can see the manuscript. In this way, arrangement make.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. We just printed two books in Oriya, Topmost Yoga and one more. One more.
Prabhupāda: He likes Oriya language.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who? Gaura-Govinda Swami? He is very sincere devotee.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, undoubtedly.
Trivikrama: All night he is translating. At night he is translating all night.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...machine. At night we translate. In daytime they type, and they send to the press, and the books are printed. Then they sell. So in this way I am bringing ten lakhs of rupees per month and investing in constructing these temples.
Trivikrama: Many temples. All over India.
Indian (1): All over India. In Mathurā, Vṛndāvana, there is something going on.
Prabhupāda: And that is finished. Our temple is the biggest and the nicest.
Girirāja: This is Mr. Sharma, the head technician at the airport, radar.
Prabhupāda: When I went to your MIT, I challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Do you know that? This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.
Prabhupāda: Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jīvātmā is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasāda. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?
Guest (1) (Indian man): There's no soul in it.
Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61).
Prabhupāda: Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.
Prabhupāda: I wish to die without a doctor. Don't... When I am... It may be. I may be seriously, but don't call doctor. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't be disturbed. Everyone has to die. Let us die peacefully, without doctor. All this medicine, injections, and prohibitions, this, that.
Hari-śauri: Tīrtha Mahārāja had all kinds of machines. Still didn't save him.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and depend on Kṛṣṇa. Actually... Nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. That is the Prahlāda Mahārāja's verse. Find out this. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha. Seventh Canto.
Hari-śauri: They recycled it. After they passed urine, they put it through a machine that was supposed to purify it, and then they could drink it again.
Prabhupāda: And still, they have to go to the Mars. Just see how degraded they have become. By drinking urine, they are going to Mars and bringing report, all false propaganda to keep the prestige of the scientists.
Hari-śauri: Yes. It's just a colossal hoax.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. But what about certain technological advancements like airplanes and automobiles?
Prabhupāda: There are subtler aeroplanes. Aeroplane is mentioned in the śāstras. Now they are working on machine, but there are aeroplanes which can work on mantra.
Rāmeśvara: But that science is lost.
Prabhupāda: Not lost. It is there.
Hari-śauri: Like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Like monkeys, yes. Markaṭa-vairāgya. (break) And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.
Prabhupāda: How Bhāgavata has selected. (laughs) Śva means dog. Dog, after technical education, if he does not get a post where he can use this computer and other big, big..., he's a dog. He goes to a bank, "Sir, I am expert in this machine work. Can you give me a job?" "No, no. There is no vacancy." Then again he puts his tail, goes another, another. What is use, this? The big, big technologists, unless they get a suitable job, they're just like dog. Dog is loitering in the street, no food. So these men with all this high technological knowledge, if they do not get a proper master, they are nothing but dog. This is university education. So dog and hog. Hog means he can eat any nonsense thing, whole day working, if he gets sex. Never mind whether mother, sister or daughter or any. You see the hog's family. They are very much sexually inclined, without any discrimination, and eating stool. This is his life. You see nowadays this man, he's eating anything, the hog's intestine. What is that?
Gurukṛpā: Sausage.
Satsvarūpa: Because it is modern times, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can keep pace with all these things, but we don't need them. We can use this, but if we don't have it, then we don't need it.
Prabhupāda: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?
Satsvarūpa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.
Satsvarūpa: They can't do it, but then, when we say, "Rains will come by yajña," they'll say "No."
Gurukṛpā: They usually argue that "Well, you see we have made so many big machines and done so many material wonders."
Prabhupāda: What is wonder? This is wonder for you, rascal. We see you are as good as dog. The dog with his four legs is running. He has no looseness. But your machine is now loose. Now you cannot go. This is your progress. A dog with four legs, he will immediately, immediately go, and now you have to wait. This is your progress, less than the dog. When there is dog race... We are going in the car, and dog is running after. We see sometimes. We see, "Oh, dog is running. You cannot have a car." Dog is free to run. You are not free to run, rascal. As soon as there is little looseness, dog will go hundred miles away from you. And you'll sit down here and cry. This is your progress.
Prabhupāda: ...in a different style. (break) ...money. These rascals are also after woman and money, in a different style. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejects him, that "He's a rascal. He's after women." Immediately. Asat strī-saṅgī. Two kinds of rascals—nondevotee of Kṛṣṇa and woman-hunter—reject immediately. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... The sannyāsa life is... What is that? Cent percent, no connection with woman. That is sannyāsa. What we have renounced? We have renounced... We are using the motorcar, we are using this machine, we are eating, we are sleeping in nice room—what is the renouncement? Only renouncement is no connection with woman. That is the real platform of renouncement. If one can renounce woman's connection, then he's liberated man. That is very, very difficult.
Hari-śauri: Even for a crude machine, it requires some intelligence to construct a design.
Prabhupāda: Anything you take, it requires intelligence. Just like you have made this garland. Somebody intelligent has decorated. So who has made it? That they have no intelligence. They decorate this garland, one red flower and yellow flower, make it very attractive, but who has made this flower? That they have no intelligence. And that is answered. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍho nābhijānāti. I am trying to taking the flower to make it more beautiful by setting them in this way, but who has made this beautiful flower? Whose brain is there? And that is explained there.
Prabhupāda: Jombies? What is that?
Hari-śauri: Zombie.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a robot.
Brahmānanda: We have no brain. We are like machine.
Prabhupāda: We are machine?
Hari-śauri: Can't think for yourself.
Brahmānanda: They say that we have no freedom of choice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animal living.
Prabhupāda: The tigers also do that. But you say, "Oh, we have got machine, cunning, (while the) tiger has to fight." This is their advancement of civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bigger animals.
Prabhupāda: Acting like animals and going on as civilized. This is modern civilization.
Prabhupāda: There's good demand for powdered milk.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as there is sufficient production of milk, they're going to get this machine.
Brahmānanda: But it will be powdered skim milk.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. It will be sold here.
Brahmānanda: They put electricity into the brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The deprogrammers are using this. They call it "psychological readjustment," and they put electrical wires...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they put some machine in my head.
Brahmānanda: Well, that was for testing the brain waves. But this way, they put electric current into the brain...
Prabhupāda: So be after him. Do it. This is the first business. In Vṛndāvana we have got very good generator. As soon as stops, within a minute we can start generator, very nice.
Jayapatākā: This is the same make.
Prabhupāda: Kirloskar.
Jayapatākā: Yes, only bigger size.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. It is now recognized machine, Kirloskar. Kirloskar, Kirloskar. A Maharathi gentleman.
Prabhupāda: See or not, I can see. Why this man is dead? Something is missing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's just like a machine.
Prabhupāda: Machine you can replace. Why you bring this...? Therefore you have no brain! It is completely different thing. If it is machine... Machine it is.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Machine breaks down.
Prabhupāda: Breaks down, you can repair.
Prabhupāda: But why not understand this complicated machine? Can they manufacture this machine? It is machine. Bhagavad-gītā says. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). It is machine. Now understand this machine. Produce. They are trying. What is they call? Brain, artificial brain. They have no brain, and they are manufacturing brain. What is that brain? Nobody can say? They have artificial man just like...
Jayapatākā: Frankenstein.
Prabhupāda: Frankenstein.
Prabhupāda: Real intelligence you see in the flower. How intelligently colorful it is made. Every nature study. Study this machine, how intelligent. And just the hand, coming up, this finger, because we have to capture something, the nail is required. If it would have been all skin, you could not capture. How... And every machine is coming automatically. You study your body. And if the same machine, you producing a machine like that, automatically coming out, one thing, male machine, one female machine, and they'll bring another machine. Where is that? And here God has made such a nice machine. He says, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). That is also not made by God. It is made by God's agent, māyā. Now, see how God is intelligent. God's servant māyā, God says, "Give him a machine like that." Immediately she gives, supplies. Clearly says, bhrāmayan sar... "He wants to still travel in this material world, bhrāmayan. He wants to go there. Then all right, give him a machine." He's so kind. He's sitting within your heart. You want to do something. And He's so kind, because you are son, beloved, He says, "These are not required. Better come back. Live peacefully." You'll not hear. "No. I..." Just like naughty child. "All right, Māyā, give him. Give him." This is meaning.
Prabhupāda: Supplied by māyā, the machine, this, that. He has nothing to do. Karaṇ... This is also Vedic mantra. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am an ordinary man. If I want to do something, I ask one or two, "Do this." I ask somebody, "Bring some money." I ask somebody that "You do this." So if an ordinary man can do, why God should do anything? Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. He can do everything, because nobody is equal to Him, but still does not do anything. Why? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His energy are so mighty millions that simply by indicating the energy, it will do. This is God. This is God.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we're desiring one after, one after, one after, one after... The last desire... Because if you become addicted to certain type of desire, that is prominent at the time of death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6), sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. So māyā's machine is immediately prepared. That mind—manaḥ buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra. Subtle. You cannot see. You see the body is burned, finished. Rascal, that is not finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. There is subtle body. The subtle body carries. The example is just like flavor of rose garden carries, similarly, the desire is carried, and he requires a machine to ride on, particular. So there are eighty-four million machines, and he's, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the supervision of māyā, carried to this mother's womb. The soul is injected through the semina of the father, and he enters the womb of the mother, and mother gives the ingredients, develops his body, and as soon as it is complete, comes out. Where is the difficulty to understand this transmigration of the soul? These rascals have no brain. That verse I have explained this morning.
Hari-śauri: From the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand this. No, no. Not this volume. The Tenth Canto I am explaining now. How nature is working, māyayā... They have no value. They are studying gross science. Actually science means how nature is working. But how nature is working, they do not know, and they are very much proud. "Nature's study..." They say they have studied nature, but they do not know how... Here it is said, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This machine is made by nature. Do you know how it is made? So where is your brain? This is a machine. And everyone knows this machine is made by nature. So how...? Do you know how it is made? Then where is your brain? You are concerned with the typewriting machine—"cutacutacut." Study this machine. Produce a machine like this. Then where is your brain? What do they answer? What do they answer? They are trying?
Prabhupāda: So in our Back to Godhead these things should be demonstrated, not that imitating that tech position, like this. These things should be... If you have got intelligence, this description what I am giving you, that should be explained. This nonsense should be stopped. That means we are imitating them. Explain this, how, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61), how this machine is being made by māyā. Then we shall give them brain. So be intelligent and try to give them brain. And if you remain dull-brained like that, then you'll say, "Yes, yes, you are right." You are not right. Every step we shall... "You are not right. You are wrong. You have no brain." That should be our idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very outspoken. Outspoken.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. "You are all rascals. Prepare a machine... This is machine, Bhagavad-gītā. Prepare a machine. Make a female machine and male machine and produce innumerable machine. Then we shall understand that you have got brain." And actually you are seeing. How is that? A male machine and female machine combine together—another machine.
Satsvarūpa: They have some machines that have better memories, that can do things that human mind can't do.
Prabhupāda: Again you... Again we... How is that?
Satsvarūpa: They could challenge that nature's machine is very wonderful, but they can make a machine out of metal and electronics...
Prabhupāda: "They can make."
Satsvarūpa: There are such machines that have better memory and can figure...
Prabhupāda: What is that better memory?
Satsvarūpa: Even a calculator can immediately multiply some...
Prabhupāda: But calculator machine, another man is working, so where is brain, calculating? The machine is made by another man, and it is being worked by another man, so where is the brain in the calculator? That is... So you are misled immediately. Bluff.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Word jugglery. Simply a word jugglery.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.
Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.
Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"
Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll take that as an insult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.
Prabhupāda: I'll go to a man who has got already. Why shall I wait for you? Even if you are so sure that in future you'll be able to manufacture a machine, a human body, so already you are trying to check the population. It is being produced so profusely that what will be credit for you even if you manufacture, (laughter) rascals? Even if you manufacture in future, then what is the credit for you? Here millions of machines coming automatically. You are trying to check it. What is the credit? Bhavānanda, you...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, the thing is, though, when we say things like this, they take it that it is so absurd that they don't even take it seriously. When you make a statement that "You have no brains," when you say that to a so-called learned man...
Prabhupāda: No, where is brain? "Show. You are manufacturing so many machines." Challenge this, "Where is this machine?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their conception of what intelligence is is completely different than our conception.
Prabhupāda: And that means they have no brain.
Prabhupāda: Just like a child's conception is different from the father. That means he has not developed the brain. That is only answer.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept that God consciousness is...
Prabhupāda: So then... They may not accept, but the fact is there. You can challenge this, that body's machine. Apart from what is the energy that is moving the machine, but it is machine, we accept. So you prepare a machine like that. Where is that machine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."
Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God." We don't. You say that. We are working under superior brain. So the case has to be proved by you, not by us. What is called, onus? What is that, onus?
Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.
Pradyumna: Then we say also ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We say "washing."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is brainwashing, yes. It is required. But at the present moment you have no brain. You have got stool in your head. So it has to be washed. What is the wrong there? If you give, "machine." You say "machine," we say it, "machine," this body. This body is a machine. You also accept; I also accept. But you, can you produce a machine like that? If the person who has made the machine, He has got brain, you have no brain. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). This is cara, moving machine, and there is standing machine. Just like tree, that is also a machine.
Prabhupāda: Tree. It is standing machine. It is collecting water from the root of the tree throughout the tree. Can you make machine, coconut tree, collecting water and supplying the top fruit? Where is that machine? It is a machine. So what brain you have got?
Hari-śauri: Chicken brain.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: Chicken brain.
Prabhupāda: You cannot do that also.
Prabhupāda: That's all. This civilization is there in the cats and dogs. Civilization is that when there is something more than the cats and dogs. What you have got? That is brain. How to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life—the dog has got such brain. Even that... You cannot produce a machine like the dog also. Can you make a machine like the dog? Then where is your brain?
Hari-śauri: They can't even produce the simplest single-celled living entity...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Which is sustaining the universe.
Prabhupāda: You can practically experience. A machine may be very complicated, but without the man who will push the button there is no value. It has no value, a lump only.
Hari-śauri: Nor could it have been made without the intelligence anyway.
Prabhupāda: Here is a lump of matter, some metal. It has been done by a living being; it is worked by living being; then it is working. And what is the value? Not even two paisa.
Prabhupāda: That you have to manage, how to collect. You give him in credit, but keep men also to collect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Collection agency.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be successful. You can give it... Americans are expert to take in credit, but the banking arrangement is nice, that they get back. Similarly, you give them credit. They will take it and then make such machinery that it will be collected. Collected means to go and ask. Then it will be collected.
Prabhupāda: Concept of life is clear in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is also one of the elements, but superior element. The gross earth, water, air, fire, ether, even mind, intelligence, ego, they are inferior. And there is another superior item. That is living entity. It is clearly said. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). And that is important because that living entity is handling this inferior. Very clear. Just like a good machine. That machine as it is, it is not important. A living entity has handled it. By handling, the machine is prepared, and by handling it is important. So who is superior, this matter or the person who is handling? And it's clear—yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate. It is clear. And similarly, whole machine must be handled by a living creature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carāca... (BG 9.10). Clear. How you can deny it? Taking this whole cosmic manifestation as machine... It is machine. We admit that. But it is being handled by a living being, the supreme living being. That is God. But they have no intelligence to understand, such a rascal civilization. Practically we are seeing. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.
Prabhupāda: "Because you are a rascal. Because you are giving stress on the body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvam (BG 2.11). The body is a lump of matter. It is not the subject matter for discussing or lamenting. It is a lump of matter. Now this, what is called...
Mr. Koshi: Machine. Tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: This machine, so long it is working, it is valuable. If it does not work, what is the value? Throw it out. Similarly, the machine is not important, but so long it is working, it is important. So we must know what is that working principle. That is knowledge. So generally, people, they are embarrassed with the machine, this body. But they do not know what the power in the machine. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Koshi: Hm.
Mr. Koshi: This is what you have tried to do. Why is it necessary to concentrate on this name, "Kṛṣṇa"?
Prabhupāda: First of all, you understand what is the importance of this movement. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa. First of all, you have to know what is the important things are there. One thing is this bodily machine and the other thing is the power within the machine.
Mr. Koshi: The driving force.
Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is the power. You are simply embarrassed with the machine. So just try to understand your position in ignorance. As soon as the power within machine is gone, it is useless. Everything is thrown away, a lump of matter. So who is culturing higher...
Prabhupāda: Then you do not understand the standpoint. We have to understand the active principle of life. So why other scholars will disagree? Then he is not a scholar. Let us come to the scientific point of view. We have to understand what is the active principle within this machine. It is equally important to all scholars. That we have to preach. They may say that "Your Kṛṣṇa; our this." No. That knowledge Kṛṣṇa is giving for everyone. And it is accepted by everyone. They are Christians. How they are accepting? I am not bribing them.
Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but who is the owner? Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes. Machine, if you take the importance of the machine and not the machine driver, then what is your knowledge? If a dog is thinking "I am a bulldog, gow gow," and if a man is thinking "I am Indian, gow gow," what is the difference? He is embarrassed with the machine body, and he is also embarrassed with the machine body. The dog is jumping, monkey is jumping with a machine body, and if we also imitate jumping like the dog and the monkey, so what is the difference? The human being is to understand that "I am not this body." That is the first knowledge. That is the first principle.
Prabhupāda: All sorts may go, but you must know the real message, that within this machine the owner of the machine, the driver of the machine... All sorts of... There are three thousand parts in a motorcar. You have all sorts of knowledge about the parts of the car, and you do not know who is driving, then what is this knowledge? Every paper, every learned man, every..., every should take it seriously and implement it. It is not meant for everyone. Still, there must be an institution to teach this, I mean, the highest standard of knowledge to the human being. Why they should simply jump like cats and dogs? This is our mission. So don't try to imitate cats and dogs, but be human being. Understand what is your position and cultivate that knowledge. That is nature's way.
Mr. Koshi: But you yourself were involved in some of the movements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not movement, it is knowledge. It is not artificial movement. It is knowledge, real knowledge, that you are not this body. You are not this machine. It is knowledge. It is meant for everyone. But you take an artificial movement. It is not. It is knowledge. And it is your duty to give knowledge to the people. If you have got any knowledge... All scientists do like that. It is not movement. When a scientist goes all over the world, he gives about his discovery, it is not movement. It is scientific knowledge. Movement is you create something and make your followers. That is movement. It is not like that. It is scientific knowledge that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.
Mr. Koshi: How is your health now?
Prabhupāda: Not good. Health or not health, it is the outward machine. That doesn't matter. But if it is a good machine then it helps, that's all. Otherwise, machine good or bad, it doesn't matter to machine driver.
Mr. Koshi: What happens when the machine stops?
Prabhupāda: It changes. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of that?
Prabhupāda: If your machine is stopped, you take another machine. That's all. You go on hearing. Not that your work will stop. You give up this machine. Take another machine. Actually you do that. Why shall I be overwhelmed, "Oh, machine is gone, machine is..."? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam: (BG 2.11) "You are lamenting for the machine, nonsense. This is not paṇḍita's business." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Machine is gone, take another one, that's all. Go on.
Mr. Koshi: What is your day like, typical day? In the morning, what time you get up? Your day, how do you spend the day?
Prabhupāda: How can I say? I have got so many things.
Prabhupāda: But we have got. The example is already set up. These boys, they have not come here for learning your cycle manufacturing. They have enough of it.
Mr. Rajda: That matter of cycle he is doing.
Prabhupāda: And we are proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. So that is my request, that I have started it. Make it an organized institution that the people from all parts of the world...
Mr. Rajda: Would come over here.
Prabhupāda: ...would come here and learn this knowledge. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's the idea behind that?
Prabhupāda: What is that? The idea is cheating. The cheating business begins from the government. And why people will not learn to cheat? This is cheating. I am giving you one paper, one hundred rupees, dollars, and you are happy: "I have got so many ..." I am giving you check, ten thousand dollars. You got ten thousand dollars. Now I give you a paper. But it is going on. We have made machinery in such a way that it will go on in hundred rupees or ten thousand rupees. Just like this fixed deposit. I am giving actual money; they are giving a receipt. And it will increase. What increase? The same paper. And gradually inflation is going on. They'll pay at the inflation rate.
Indian man (4): So now the government has changed.
Prabhupāda: But the machine is the same.
Indian man (3): It may be due to secular state. Maybe that also.
Prabhupāda: No, secular state it was...
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Both. It's also curing us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. You'll find, not find any medicine throughout the universe that you'll be benefited either you die or be... This is the only medicine. In both ways you are... The death is inevitable. You die today or tomorrow. So by taking this medicine, if you die, you have the greatest benefit. And if you live, enjoy. If you die, enjoy; if you live, enjoy. Go on chanting. (kīrtana) (break) No, I have no objection. (laughter) I am prepared in either way. What is that machine they keep? Husking machine?
Upendra: Asking machine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Husking machine.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Begin. If we make Hindi plate, Los Angeles, and send it to...
Rāmeśvara: We could do it in Los Angeles, but it would be more costly. Gopāla says that the main concern with the Hindi books is keeping the cost as low as possible so it can be sold in India.
Prabhupāda: No, plate-making, we have got all machine, so it will be cheaper.
Upendra: They say they are living more comfortably.
Prabhupāda: Nonsense comfortably... They have changed the season? Is it comfortable? We have to take this cooling machine. What is the practical benefit? You can say that it is comfortable. That's all right. But that does not mean that you have moved the uncomfortable situation. You are struggling against. That much you can take credit. Real benefit is not there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Real unhappiness is this, that you are: "Why I am struggling? I don't want death." Actually why I am taking massage and so on, so on? So that I may not die. So where is the scientists' guarantee, "No, you'll not die"? Has he any...? You'll struggle only. That's all.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you get on the aeroplane, you are in full anxiety that at any moment there may be crash. Is it not? Then where is comfort? Real comfort is without anxiety. That is real comfort. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given, real comfort means, arni akyavad(?): "One who is not out of home and one who has no debts, he is happy." Nowadays people are going out of home, and everyone is debtor to the bank and so many... The economic machine is so made that one is put always in debts for some so-called comforts, and he's full of anxiety. The whole month he has to work to pay debts.
Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva was eating also. (laughter) And he was typing. He's a very good typist. He'll type very swiftly and correctly. Then I started this Back to Godhead, Hayagrīva and Rāyarāma, editors. And I purchased two machines. What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mimeograph machine.
Prabhupāda: There was advertisement. So I went to Long Island. That two machines... I asked, "What is the price?" "$150 each." Then he wanted to take away the machines. Machine was all right. And then I told him that "I have got $150 only. If you want to give us, give those two machines." So "All right, you take these all." (laughter) So I gave him $150, whatever I had, and I took the machine. In that machine was printed Back to Godhead. So five hundred copies... How many copies you were selling?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, by the time we were selling, you were printing about three thousand, and we were selling twenty-five hundred.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "Aid the Fresh Air Fund." This is a fund. They collect millions of dollars for keeping the air fresh. But they never think why the air has become unfresh due to all these foolish industries pumping so many obnoxious things into the air. That they won't stop. But they'll devise new machines to clean the air.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So here is one of the machine. That we are creating, the farms. Air fresh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is fresh air.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's just started. But there's very good scope.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good scope. You see... Just always remember that Gita Press, third-class printing and fourth-class subject, it is, and they were maintaining seventy-five big machines. Seventy-five in Gorakpur. And Pitagar(?) paper against. Still, they could not supply. There is so much scope for Hindi book.
Prabhupāda: The more you go, western side, you save time. The more you go eastern side, you add time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there's some science fiction that if you go like that fast enough, then you can go back into history. Time machine. By going at a certain speed in a certain direction you can go back into history, and if you go the other way you can go ahead into the future. There's a H. G. Wells. He's a famous science fiction writer. So he wrote a..., called The Time Machine. He was going back into history.
Prabhupāda: H. G. Wells, he was good writer, but he was a scientist also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not really a scientist. Science fiction writer. So he wrote this book called The Time Machine.
Prabhupāda: From imagination.
Prabhupāda: That is my desire. Don't waste time for bodily comforts. You have got this body. You have to eat something. You have to cover yourself. So produce your own food and produce your own cloth. Don't waste time for luxury, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is success of life. In this way organize as far as possible, either in Ceylon or in Czechoslovakia, wherever... Save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't be allured by the machine civilization.
Prabhupāda: From corn you can make two things: ruṭi and bhāta.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. From corn you can make two things: ruṭi, cāpāṭis, and bhāta, or like rice.
Prabhupāda: The villagers will like it very much. You smash it by that ḍheṅki. You know that machine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The ladies jump on it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So as much as it is powdered, make it ruṭi, and the hard portion make rice. The kṛṣāṇas will like, and it is very nutritious.
Prabhupāda: So here is a intelligent boy. Why he should rot here, typewriting? (break) Whatever deficiency are there, that is excused by Guru Mahārāja. Go on printing, go on printing. Deficiency will be corrected, next, next, next. I printed Bhāgavata in that way, many defects. "All right. Whatever is printed, that's all." But these are first class. There is no defect. German printing is very pure. They have got the first-class machine. So we have got so many centers. Wherever cheaper and better printing can be gotten, we may take from there. That's all right. Thank you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was asking us, "Does your Guruji have any...? Will he take an injection?" So we said, "No." He was hopeless. He was guessing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he didn't know the real cause.
Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing-machine. They do not know.
| Page Title: | Machine (Conversations 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 25 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 78 |