Śyāmasundara: He says that we require other people for our self-realization, if we want to understand who I am.
Prabhupāda: That means he requires a guru.
Śyāmasundara: That is what he means.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes he means that it is blind, there is no end, there is no plan, again he wants to have a guru?
Śyāmasundara: He doesn't say guru, but he says other people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru is also another man.
Śyāmasundara: We interact with other people in order to understand ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So why not the best man-guru? If we require other men to understand, then why not take the best man?
Śyāmasundara: He says because there are other people, that in the presence of others we feel ashamed.
Prabhupāda: No. There are many other people, many people, but we have to take help from others, and I must take help from the best man, who knows things.
Śyāmasundara: He has observed that if I am acting in bad faith, that I will be ashamed in the presence of others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you should take advice from a man who can give you right direction, so at the end you may not be ashamed; you may be glorious. That is the injunction of the Vedas: tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to be conversant with that science, transcendental science, one must approach a bona fide guru.
Śyāmasundara: His being ashamed before others...
Prabhupāda: Yes. You will be ashamed. If you are not guided by a superior man, you'll be ashamed. But if you are guided by a proper man you won't be ashamed; you'll be glorious.
Śyāmasundara: He says that if a man considers himself as an object, he is afraid to look inside himself, then he will also consider other people as objects. And that is the cause of the basic sickness of the world, that we treat each other as objects instead as persons.
Prabhupāda: That is a wrong conception. Everybody is a person.
Śyāmasundara: What is your remedy for seeing everyone as persons?
Prabhupāda: That is the real vision: everyone is person.
Śyāmasundara: What is the remedy, what is the cure, for seeing everyone as a person?
Prabhupāda: You see or not see, everyone is a person. So what does it mean?
Śyāmasundara: Supposing I want to observe everyone in their personal manifestation, I want to see everyone as a person.
Prabhupāda: You are not seeing everyone as a person?