Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...if they give up the four sinful activities, then they might be able to understand the Vedic philosophy. So does this imply...?
Prabhupāda: Not Vedic philosophy. They will understand God.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So does this mean that by their activities that they're engaging in now their incentive is that they want to enjoy these four sinful activities...? And that really they're not looking for truth? That's...
Prabhupāda: They have no inquiry for truth. Animal life. As soon as there will be inquiry for the truth, that is human life.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They will naturally perform some tapasya?
Prabhupāda: Yes, then other things will follow. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. They do not inquire. That means animal life. As soon as there is inquiry, jijñāsu, jñānī jijñāsu... They're not jijñāsu even. Neither jñānī. (pause) The path must be very old. The trees are very aged. (pause) (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...yesterday said, when you said that one must be pure before he approaches God, they said, "That's spiritual pride." They said, "That is not good to say first we have to be pure. Like egoism," they said.
Prabhupāda: They'll tolerate material egoism, "We are doing this humanitarian service." That they... And spiritual egoism he'll not. That I replied, that this is real egoism, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And I'm: "Ahaṁ dog asmi." (laughter) That is not very good pride. (break) Why not make one world? That I said to to that man. Why do they not do that? Everything belongs to God.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the Vedic times also, just a few thousand years ago, there was one monarch also, one king.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they were subordinate to him.
Guru-gaurāṅga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one person asked the other day that "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or we can remain under the control of the external energy."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And his question was that those in the mode of passion and ignorance, do they have any choice?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Choice to...?
Prabhupāda: To steal.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Steal.
Prabhupāda: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, It will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifested. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. So in the, in the... Ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer. (end)