Prabhupāda: So this is Brahman platform. The brahma-jñāni, impersonalist, they think simply by coming to the Brahman platform, business is finished now. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. No. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi is there, but what is the duty of the Brahman? That they do not know. Just like again I say the same example. Just like you are going to the moon planet. The so-called aeronautics, they are going, "Now we have come to moon planet." That's nice, but stay there. Unless you stay there, it is useless. It is useless. Actually, they could not stay there. Why they come back? Why they come back? That is either false or they have no qualification to stay there. So who cannot stay in the Brahman platform? The nondevotee. That is stated. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Just like as you go to the moon planet but if you cannot stay there, you must have to come down again to this planet; similarly, one may rise up to the Brahman platform, paraṁ-pada, which is called paraṁ-pada, but if you cannot stay there, then again you fall down. Just like many so-called sannyāsīs, they rise to the brahma-pada, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but because they cannot stay there, they come down again to this material world and they are busy for opening hospitals, schools, and philanthropism. My wife, you have left already all this nonsense, you say that this world is mithyā, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So if you have ascended to the brahma-pada, why you come down again to the mithyā-pada? That means you have no taste. Actually you have not arrived, the same thing. You are going, the so-called advertisement, "I am going to the moon planet," but because you cannot stay there, you come down. So we have to stay there, brahma-pada. That brahma-pada staying means devotional service. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So brahma-pada, you can rise up. But if you do not engage yourself in the service of Bhagavān, then again you come down. āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because they could not engage their service to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, therefore, these so-called sannyāsīs again come down to this material platform and engage their service to the mithyā. Because they rejected this world, mithyā. Why they come down again to this mithyā platform-politics, sociology, humanity—if this is mithyā? But our philosophy is not that... We don't say that this world is mithyā. Why shall I say? It is creation of Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is truth, His creation is also truth. We employ everything to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord is always situated in the transcendental platform. They will never come down. Because it is so sweet, it is so nice, they will never agree. Any student of this institution, if you ask him, if you try to cheat him that you give up this idol worship, come down, go and worship the poor, the leper, and this and that, so many things, they will not. They will not. They will not come down. They will engage themselves always in the service of the Lord.
Although the atheist class of men may think that they are engaged in idol worship, it is not idol. Those who are atheist, they may see idol, stone. But those who are devotees, they see sākṣād brajendranandana hari. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered the Jagannātha temple, as soon as He saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted, "Oh, my Lord, here You are." So it is a question of vision. Somebody is going to Jagannātha temple, he is seeing a wooden carved statue, that's all. And he is surprised, "Why for this wooden carved statue so many people are coming?" Because they are not devotee, they cannot understand. But one devotee, thousands and millions of devotees are going every year. Are they going to worship an idol? So this is the difference between the devotee and the nondevotee. A devotee knows that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore, they want to employ everything to the service of the Lord, and they remain always blissful, transcendental. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Guest (1): Some yogis harness energies and claim to use these energies to benefit humanity. Is there any value in their work? Is there any real consequence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already explained that they employ their energies but if they do not reach the ultimate goal, Kṛṣṇa, they fall down. There is chance of falling down. Because Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal. So they are employing their energies, that's all right, but they have to employ their energies more and more to approach Kṛṣṇa. If you do not approach Kṛṣṇa, then they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, if they simply... Just like the same example, just like sunshine. Sunshine is also sun. But if you simply try to remain in the sunshine and don't go to the sun planet or any other planet, then again you come back. So the energy employed for realizing the Absolute Truth is good. But if he does not approach or if he is unable to approach the Supreme, then he will fall down.
Guest (1): Is any knowledge other than ultimate knowledge of the Supreme of any value at all?
Prabhupāda: Any knowledge, there are so many subject matter of knowledge in the material world.
Guest (1): Is this material knowledge of any value?
Prabhupāda: No. Material is valuable so far your material existence is concerned. That is also not valuable. Because if you try to protect this body by all kinds of knowledge, but it will not stay. And after giving up your this body, you have to accept another body. Then what is the value of material knowledge? This time you may have this human form of body, next time you may not have. Then what is the value of material knowledge? Because you cannot change the order of transmigration of the soul from one body to another. That you have to accept according to your karma. So, therefore, material knowledge will not help me. Therefore they struggle so. You are under the grip of natural laws, daivi hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). Natural, nature's law are very stringent. You cannot interfere with the... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, the nature, material nature is so strong that you cannot interfere with her business, that is not possible. So your material knowledge will not help you, unless you have got Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge. You can, anyone can understand. Suppose if I want to protect this body with all hygienic principles, soaps and pumice and injection and medicine and so many things, does it mean that you shall live? Can you overcome the laws of nature? No, that is not possible. Can you overcome the laws of nature that you will not fall sick? No, that you cannot. Can you make any material laws or scientific knowledge that you will not become old? No. You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop old age, you cannot stop disease. So what is the value of your material knowledge? And these are the troubles. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Any intelligent man will see that what is the value of my material knowledge? I have to die. I have to be victim of disease and old age. Then what is the value? The best thing is that so long this material body is there, you have got the opportunity to develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do that. That will save you from all dangers. Otherwise, nothing will save you. Simply śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply waste of time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.