Prabhupāda: Sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair. Not that in a particular. . . In all the śāstra. And sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair yukta, "It is said," tathā, bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, "and this is accepted by all authorities."
Dr. Patel: Sadbhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sadbhiḥ. Not asadbhiḥ. Asadhbhi says, "No, no. I don't require a guru. You make me guru." If I don't require a guru, then why, you rascal, you are speaking this? You are teaching. Why you are teaching me?
Lokanātha: Last night's question on that . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you don't require a guru, then why you are teaching me, if you don't require a guru? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. These people, they say like that. "You don't require guru. You don't require a book to study; everything is there, within."
Dr. Patel: That is one of the . . .
Prabhupāda: Why you are writing book? Everything is within. All right, but why you are writing book to teach them? And why you are teaching them there is no need of guru? That means you want to be guru. All other gurus useless. Just see.
Dr. Patel: They, they'll say that their mind is a part of the samasti mind, and you . . .
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, I require your help to understand it. Therefore you become my guru. If I require your help to understand something, that is guru. And you say there is no need of guru. Then why you are taking trouble to teach me this nonsense?
Dr. Patel: If . . . the guru is necessity right from the birth. The first guru is the mother . . .
Prabhupāda: And these rascals, they preach like that: there is no need of guru.
Dr. Patel: I think they are wrong.
Prabhupāda: Rascals simply, not only wrong.
Dr. Patel: They are rascals, sir.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply rascals. Rascals means he does not know the thing, and he still preaches. Therefore rascal.
Dr. Patel: That is how that Bhagavan has made so many gurus. . .
Prabhupāda: A guru. . .. Guru must be there.
Dr. Patel: How many gurus that to make a . . . (indistinct) . . .? Do you know?
Prabhupāda: There are many, they say like that—"There is no need of guru."
Indian man: But do you have to make an effort to get a. . . to achieve a sad-guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipāta means you have to surrender there. So you are not a fool. When you submit somewhere, you must test, and then submit. That is sad-guru.
Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that if you are very sincere, then the sad-guru comes automatically to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: As you have come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him—just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, "Yes, I shall find out Kṛṣṇa." Mother said, "Kṛṣṇa can be found in the forest," so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Kṛṣṇa sent Nārada Muni, that "This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Two things required: guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Mālī hañā sei bīja koro āropana. "I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest." No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bīja: mālī hañā sei bīja koro āropana. And how to nourish the bīja? Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye śecana (CC Madhya 19.152): by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Water is this. Then the bhakti-latā will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.