Pradyumna: One man is trying to prove Sai Baba is fraud. One professor.
Hari-śauri: He's a scientist. He says he can prove that Sai Baba's making things appear and disappear is just a trick.
Prabhupāda: He is a fraud. What is this paper?
Hari-śauri: This is the same issue.
Pradyumna: But there's something very interesting. When he manifests something, he gives evidence, he says, "This cannot be a creation, because to be a creation, to be God you must be creator. To be creator you must produce something which is uniquely not made by anyone else." So he said he's only making things that are already created by someone else—a watch. So he is...
Hari-śauri: He's producing a watch, then it's a watch that's made by some manufacturer. It's not made by Sai Baba. Like that. So there was a comment that even if he has some... He may have some supernatural power, but he's not God.
Pradyumna: He has some yogic siddhi, but he cannot be God because he does not create.
Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?
Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says... Because he is doing a lot of educational... He has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says that he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said, "We don't want to see him criticized."
Hari-śauri: They're supporting him.
Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?
Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge. The Bangalore University, some people at Bangalore University want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.
Prabhupāda: He submits?
Pradyumna: They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.
Prabhupāda: That is his...
Hari-śauri: Some U.S. men, though, they gave a report that whilst they were talking to him he made different things appear and disappear. They wanted to examine him, and he wouldn't allow it. But during the course of the conversation he made several things appear and disappear. Like he produced this type of nut that comes from Nepal. It just appeared in his hand. And then he closed his hands and opened them up again and the nut, the same nut was there. But this time with some gold, a gold cross hanging from it.
Pradyumna: A Rudrākṣa. Some rare kind of Rudrākṣa. Then made it appear again with all gold, and then he gave it to the man.
Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.
Prabhupāda: This is magic.
Hari-śauri: Still, even if he can do those things, it's only mystic siddhi. That doesn't mean to say he's God or an avatāra or anything. But these people are so foolish they think anybody with a little magic, he must be avatāra.
Pradyumna: They worship him as God. "Bhagavan Sai Baba."
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."
Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion...
Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?
Pradyumna: "The ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult."
Prabhupāda: What is that ungodly face?
Hari-śauri: They're trying to make out we're political.
Pradyumna: That we... He said he has "Now unmasked the ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." That we're putting on a false face of being devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but actually we have an ungodly purpose. That we want to...
Prabhupāda: What ungodly we have done?
Pradyumna: That he does not come out and say, but he implies that we are foreign, that we want to exploit India somehow.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.
Hari-śauri: They can see we're having an effect.
Pradyumna: The more we go with these traveling parties also, from town to town.
Hari-śauri: Most of the general population, they're already convinced.
Prabhupāda: First thing is that when you take śālagrāma-sevā, wherever you stay, this worship must go on daily.
Pradyumna: Yes, nitya-pūjā, nitya-sevā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you cannot... One day, if you are sick, your wife will do that. But that half an hour pūjā must continue. That you must decide.
Pradyumna: Yes. Yes. I saw those brāhmaṇas in Udupi, they will never fail to do it under any condition. They have little box with śālagrāma, little śaṅkha, little thing, little tulasī leaf they get. They will do that every day daily. They cannot...
Prabhupāda: So both of you are initiated. In case you are little sick, your wife will do. In that platform you have to do it. Sevā shall not be stopped. Gradually as your son grows, he will also do it. So you can purchase one little siṁhāsana. That is available in any utensil shop. All right.
Pradyumna: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)