Young man (4): Swamiji, if a man admits or comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaos...
Prabhupāda: Chaos?
Young man (4): In seeking to bring order into the chaos...
Prabhupāda: Mind's business is...
Young man (4): In seeking to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural path open before him? Won't he naturally come to spiritual sādhana?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the question?
Young man (4): I say, if a man sits down and admits to himself that his mind is chaotic, in trying to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural spiritual path open before him, when he sets about purifying his mind?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, if someone is sitting down and the mind is very chaotic, and, he says, is there not something inherent within the living being that automatically that chaos will go away of its own accord?
Young man (4): No, no, no, that's not what I said.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It isn't?
Young man (4): No, it's not what I said. What I said was, when finally man comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaotic—there is no order—when he admits this to himself and he looks to find a way to purify his mind, will not the spiritual sādhana open up naturally?
Indian man (1): Without a guru.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's the point I'm making. I mean that's something within himself.
Prabhupāda: Without a guru? That is not possible.
Young man (4): Hm?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Young man (4): It is not possible?
Prabhupāda: Just like if you are mad—the mind is not in order—you go to a physician to treat you. That is the way. If your mind is not in order, what do you do? You go to a psychiatrist, you go to an expert for treatment.
Young man (4): No, no, this is... No.
Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you do not go, then you'll become mad.
Young man (4): No, no, no.
Prabhupāda: What is that "No, no, no"? You said that your mind is in chaotic condition.
Young man (4): Yes?
Prabhupāda: So you have to treat it.
Young man (4): Yes, but not necessarily through a psychiatrist. I mean, it's a matter of admitting to oneself that there is an impurity...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Indian man (2): If I know that in my own mind my mind is chaotic...
Prabhupāda: Then if you know, then where is chaotic condition? This is nonsense.
Young man (4): Nonsense?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you know, then where is chaotic condition?
Indian man (1): If you know that your mind is in a chaotic condition, your mind is not in a chaotic condition.
Young man (4): This is not what I'm saying. I say...
Prabhupāda: So what you say? We don't hear.
Young man (4): What I'm saying is one is admitting to oneself that their mind is not pure...
Prabhupāda: That means chaotic condition.
Young man (4): When one admits to oneself that their mind...
Prabhupāda: That means a... He is in chaotic condition. A madman—he admits or not-he's a madman.
Young man (4): I don't understand...
Prabhupāda: You cannot understand—because you are madman. That's all.