Prabhupāda: So our teachers do not ask any payment. They go freely. Why don't you take advantage of these teachers?
Devotee: One thing they (indistinct) Prabhupāda, that we are thinking in terms of Vedic culture, and they say well, if this Vedic culture was previously existing, then why did it dissolve? Why did it fall apart and now we have to make a new one?
Prabhupāda: That is not (indistinct). A new way we cannot. If you want perfection, you must take to Vedic culture, because it is not with the four defects of human beings. Anything introduced for . . . Just like we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and some of the students are falling back. How (indistinct)? That is not the defect of the institution. That is some other power. So people might have fallen from the standard of Vedic culture, but they cannot invent any new one. That is it.
Devotee: That is the same thing we say about the scientific process. The scientific process isn't imperfect, it is just the masters who are imperfect. They claim that the empiric process is perfect. We have not developed it to perfection.
Devotee (2): For instance, they would say if our students are falling back, that is because of the environment.
Prabhupāda: They are not falling back. Some of them (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Some of them . . .
Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct) anyway.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that ideally, if our environment was conditioned in such a way that they were rewarded for doing good things and punished for doing bad things, that they would not go away.
Prabhupāda: They would be punished, but they don't care for punishment. Just like it says in the lawbook that if you steal, you'll be arrested, but they don't care for your lawbook, the thief. What can you do? That independence is already there. The lawbook says that if you commit theft you will be punished, and he is actually punished. But if he doesn't care for punishment, then what can you do? Punishment is already there.