Two kinds and types of... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"two classes" |"two divisions" |"two kinds" |"two types"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: A spade a spade... Just like I am saying that "What you are? You are small fig only." That is reality. And what is the other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other is fault-finding and...

Prabhupāda: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that... vraṇam icchanti, makṣikā vraṇam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are two... Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are many rascals who are simply fault-finding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And blasphemy?

Prabhupāda: Blasphemy means you have good qualities, but still, I am defaming you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the saintly person tends to overlook the bad qualities and see the good ones.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like Kṛṣṇa's dealing with Pūtanā.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jīva bhuta, and that is living entity." So two kinds of atoms are coming from Kṛṣṇa. One is the spiritual atom, and the other is the material atom. So spiritual atoms, they are many, many times greater than the material atoms. And these material atoms is this universal, innumerable universes. Some of the spiritual atoms, when they want to enjoy independently, they are given the chance of enjoying this material atom. So in the material world it is combination of material and spiritual atoms. In the spiritual world, there is no material atom; everything spirit. That is three-fourth energy, and this is one fourth. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. (break)

Guru-kṛpā: If we say that Kṛṣṇa enters even within the atom, what is His business there?

Prabhupāda: Business is to guide the rascals like you. (laughter) Do you follow or not?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They are find..., researching atom. They could not come to the ultimate conclusion. And we say that this atom is energy, but it is inferior, and there is another energy. So they, if they say that "We do not find anything except this atom..."

Acyutānanda: They cannot explain how, in the body, by eating food, it turns into...

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jīva-bhūta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jīva-bhūta is there. He is seeing jīva bhuta, living... So Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?

Acyutānanda: Because they are so sinful, they cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Yeah. That is the...

Acyutānanda: Like Duryodhana. Even people criticize Kṛṣṇa, "Why He could not convince Duryodhana to be peaceful?" Because there was nothing... He was so sinful that he had used up all his pious...

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But you are doing the same thing. Otherwise why you are reforming? Who is reforming unless the one class is very intelligent? The same situation. You.... Your, what is that rascal's name?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mao Tse Tung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mao. Mao.

Prabhupāda: So he is supposed to be intelligent. He is supposed to be intelligent. So the two classes already there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says everyone can be equally intelligent.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but these classes must remain, the teacher class and the student class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's what they do. They take the teachers.... This is one of their program. Actually we have written a report which explains. They take the teachers, and they send the teachers out into the factory and into the farms for years.

Prabhupāda: So anywhere you send, the student and teacher class is there. You change the name, you change the process, it doesn't matter, but the student class and teacher class will always remain. That is your foolishness. You are simply changing different names. But originally, as planned by nature, that is always there.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They say let the factory worker teach the teacher.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That "should be" means not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they are making everyone teachers.

Prabhupāda: And this "making" means not.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They are trying to make.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. The classes, two classes, are there. You cannot change that. "Trying," "making," means two.

Hari-śauri: It's artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like they let the students teach the teachers.

Prabhupāda: That's right. So the teachers.... Sometimes you become teacher; sometimes I become teacher. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to create a society where there are no superior-inferior.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Classless society.

Prabhupāda: They are taking themselves the superior position to make it one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Yes. That's a fact.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam—there is no guarantee—but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakaṁ daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca (BG 16.6). In this material world there are... (aside:)

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The meaning and purport of this verse is the same as in the Bhagavad-gītā, but here in this verse there is one special word, vipaścit, which means learned or with knowledge. The soul is full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the soul. Even if one does not find the soul within the heart, where he is situated, one can still understand the presence of the soul simply by the presence of consciousness. Sometimes we do not find the sun in the sky owing to clouds, or for some other reason, but the light of the sun is always there, and we are convinced that it is therefore daytime. As soon as there is a little light in the sky early in the morning, we can understand that the sun is in the sky. Similarly, since there is some consciousness in all bodies—whether man or animal—we can understand the presence of the soul. This consciousness of the soul is, however, different from the consciousness of the Supreme, because the supreme consciousness is all-knowledge—past, present and future. The consciousness of the individual soul is prone to be forgetful. When he is forgetful of his real nature, he obtains education and enlightenment from the superior lessons of Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not like the forgetful soul. If so, Kṛṣṇa's teachings of Bhagavad-gītā would be useless. There are two kinds of souls-namely the minute particle soul, aṇu-ātmā, and the Supersoul, the vibhu-ātmā. This is also confirmed in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad in this way:

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: "In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samādhi, called samprajñāta-samādhi and asamprajñāta-samādhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajñāta-samādhi. In the asamprajñāta-samādhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogi is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogi is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogi indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogis who are attracted by the siddhis, or perfections, in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogis are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way. The best practice of yoga in this age is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is not baffling. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person is so happy in his occupation that he does not aspire after any other happiness. There are many impediments, especially in this age of hypocrisy, to practicing haṭha-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and jñāna-yoga, but there is no such problem in executing karma-yoga or bhakti-yoga. As long as the material body exists, one has to meet the demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But a person who is in pure bhakti-yoga, or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, does not arouse the senses while meeting the demands of the body. Rather, he accepts the bare necessities of life, making the best use of a bad bargain, and enjoys transcendental happiness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is callous toward incidental occurrences—such as accidents, disease, scarcity and even the death of a most dear relative—but he is always alert to execute his duties in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or bhakti-yoga. Accidents never deviate him from his duty. As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, āgamāpāyino nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. He endures all such incidental occurrences because he knows that they come and go and do not affect his duties. In this way he achieves the highest perfection in yoga practice."

Richard: Did you write..., you wrote the purport? Okay, um, when you said the person who is involved with Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes the best use of a bad bargain, were you referring to life?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You have to learn from a superior person.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now there is distinction between two types of knowledge. If knowledge means understanding...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru. Guru means expert. Heavy. Who's knowledge is heavier than your scanty knowledge. You have to learn knowledge. Guru means heavy. Therefore Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must. Abhigacchet, this word is used when the sense is "must." Not optional, that I may go or I may not go. No, you must. This is Vedic injunction.

Devotee (2): We can see practically everyone understands that if they want to be a chemist, they study under another chemist, or a doctor goes to study from some doctor. Why they don't approach a spiritual master for religious knowledge? Why do they think they can do it by themselves?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Vāyasaṁ means crows. The crows, they take pleasure in a place where all rubbish and refuses are thrown. They take pleasure. So what is this newspaper? All rubbish things, they are collected together. Nobody likes it to read. They just glance over for a few minutes, and then it is thrown away, rubbish. And even it is thrown, nobody touches. So they are spending huge, so many newspapers. Each newspaper several editions in a day, huge establishment, but there is no substance of life. That is being described. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo. Read it?

Pradyumna:

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ

(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows. Since the all-perfect persons are inhabitants of the transcendental abode, they do not derive any pleasure there." Purport. "Crows and swans are not birds of the same feather because of their different mental attitudes. The fruitive workers or passionate men are compared to the crows, whereas the all-perfect saintly persons are compared to the swans. Crows take pleasure in a place where garbage is thrown out, just as the passionate fruitive workers take pleasure in wine and women and places for gross sense pleasure. The swans do not take pleasure in the places where crows are assembled for conferences and meetings. They are instead seen in the atmosphere of natural scenic beauty, where there are transparent reservoirs of water nicely decorated with stems of lotus flowers in variegated colors of natural beauty. That is the difference between the two classes of birds.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "O son of Pṛthā, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac." (purport) "Lord Kṛṣṇa, having assured Arjuna that he was born with the divine qualities, is now describing the demoniac way. The conditioned living entities are divided into two classes in this world. Those who are born with divine qualities follow a regulated life; that is to say they abide by the injunctions in scriptures and by the authorities. One should perform duties in the light of authoritative scripture. This mentality is called divine. One who does not follow the regulative principles as they are laid down in the scriptures and who acts according to his whims is called demoniac, or asuric. There is no other criterion but obedience to the regulative principles of scriptures. It is mentioned in Vedic literature that both the demigods and the demons are born of the Prajapati; the only difference is that one class obeys the Vedic injunctions and the other does not."

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this... There are two kinds of men already described, daiva asura eva ca. These two kinds of activities will go on. This is material world. You cannot find out cent percent perfect man. That is not possible. There are a class of men, imperfect, will be there. But it is being described who is imperfect and who is perfect. That you have to select. You cannot clear this material world of imperfect persons. That is not possible. There will be remain, but you must know who is perfect and who is imperfect. And make your choice, whether you want to remain imperfect or want to make progress to become perfect. That is up to you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems almost like a contradiction in one sense, that prabhavanti, that they flourish and at the same time, ksayaya.

Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty, materially, materially. Just like when you go to a modern city and say, "Oh, how developed," prabhavanty. But what kind of prabhavanty? That is next word, jagato 'hitāḥ, to destroy this world. So their prabhavanty in the opposite direction. That is not prabhavanty actually. Prabhavanty in the material sense, but what is the purpose, what is the end? Jagato 'hitāḥ. There are two kinds of progress, to hell, to heaven.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question. Question number 18. "As the world is coming to be divided into just two classes, atheist and theist, is it not advisable for all religions to come together, and what positive steps can be taken in this direction?"

Prabhupāda: That is already taken, already explained. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in family, in community, in nation, in the... as you go on. But the theist class should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gītā and take shelter at his lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion without conception of God, conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the Vedic literature dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Find out this verse in the Sixth Canto. (break) ...Yamarāja's instruction.

Devotee: Yes. (pause)

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We are practically seeing it, that material nature... Some infection, this is also material nature, and if you are infected with some contaminous disease, you must suffer. They practically see it. The nature will work. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. As soon as we are in this material world... I am living entity, spirit soul, and because I am in this material world, I have accepted this material body under the regulation of the material laws. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? Here is a tree. It is standing here. We are human beings; we are also here. But when there is cold blast, scorching heat, we can go into the room, but he has to be standing here for thousands of years. Why this distinction? It cannot move even an inch. It is also living entity. Why he is punished in that way? And when there will be snowfall, pinching cold, he cannot go. But a small ant, it can go from here to there. Moving and not moving, the two kinds of living entities... Some of them can move; some of them cannot move, sthāvara. Just like grass. We are trampling over with our legs. It cannot protest. Why these differences of grades of life? This is described here. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte (BG 13.22). What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enjoys. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Because this prakṛti, nature, is made of three modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Just like we are trying to associate with sattva-guṇa—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. So others, they are not anxious for these thing. They will say, "What is the wrong there? You can do that." But because you are infecting that tamo-guṇa, you'll have to suffer. You'll have to become a tree; you have to become a dog. How you can stop it? Where is your science? Why the scientists dying? Why they cannot invent some means, a tablet, that "At the time of my death, push this tablet in my belly. I'll not die"? Why they are unable to do so? Who can answer this? Why the rascal scientists do not manufacture such things that there'll be no death for the scientists? Hm? What do you say? Anyone for scientists can plead? (laughter)

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So that means speculation.

Rādhāvallabha: Well they have a system, so-called system, by using light.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we find there are two kinds of living entities, sthāvara and jaṅgama. One kind of living entity, they cannot move, and one kind of living entity, they move. So just like here there is grass, there are trees and there are... We are also. There are many animals who can move. So why, if there are plants who are not moving, why not the other moving animals? This is commonsense reason. Everywhere we see two kinds of animals, moving and not moving. If the not-moving is there, why not the moving? What is the wrong there? This is our first question.

Rādhāvallabha: They say that under certain conditions, just like in...

Prabhupāda: No, don't, don't find such conditions. That is a rascaldom. We don't find such con... Anywhere you go, there are two kinds of living entities, moving and not moving.

Janāhlāda: One of the ways they tell whether there are advanced forms of life is if they can see vegetation growing on different planets in waves like the seasons, and if they can't see that in an orderly pattern, then they conclude that there is no life, no advanced life.

Prabhupāda: Why there is no vegetation? They say there is vegetation.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now these statements are quite scientifically valid and sound. Now this will be verified in our next slide that is called the axioms. This is called structure of a theory. In scientific disciplines, specifically in mathematics, now scientists work with a beginning called axioms. There are two types of axioms. First one is logical axiom, and second one is theoretical axioms. Now from these axioms, by inference, actually one deduces these theorems. That's in the second block. From there, by observation, we have this object of study. Now the basic question is wherefrom these axioms coming from? The starting point, axioms, they take it for granted, and actually there is no proof. It is beyond proof, beyond any scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the way that science works, also they depend on axioms. But actually, when one analyzes this a little thoughtfully, one should come to the conclusion that actually these axioms are coming from the Absolute. So our first proposition that in order to understand life and matter one must have this, er, some knowledge of the Absolute Truth is scientifically sound.

Prabhupāda: I tried to explain something in the beginning of Īśopaniṣad, my lecture in the Conway Hall, what is that Absolute Truth. "Introduction." I have given the example that the Vedas say cow dung is pure. This is axiomatic truth. Now if you analyze cow dung you'll find all the antiseptic properties are there. This is axiomatic.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: So there the consciousness is simply not manifest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: In crystal form. Like the stone does not show consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are two kinds of life. Sthāvara-jaṅgama. Sthāvara means stationary. The stone is also stationary. It never moves. Big mountain, even though it has got life, it is stationary. And a small ant, it is not stationary. It is moving. So there are two kinds of life, stationed and moving. Sthāvara-jaṅgama.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order to present this to scientists in general, we are saying specifically that there is no life in stone.

Prabhupāda: No, that one stone may be dead. Just like a tree is standing. But when it is dead, the symptoms are different—there is no more green leaf. But the tree as it is, it is standing. But there is no more green leaf.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but there is a basic difference.

Prabhupāda: So similarly we may not understand that life, so long life is there, there is development. There is a stone in Benares, Śilā-bandheśvara. Everyone knows that stone is increasing. Still, it is there. So people go to see it. One who has seen that stone ten years ago, you will see it is developed now. So life, symptom of life is growth.

Rūpānuga: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes only a single symptom of life may be demonstrated. Like in crystal there is some growth only, with no other manifestation. Then the crystal may stop growing. Just like a tree...

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: We have got our authority, I have got my authority, Bhāgavatam, Vedic literatures. Why shall I give you better preference, your authority? I have got my authority.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'll explain there are two types of acquiring knowledge. Two different techniques. Now the scientists are believing their own...

Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. Deductive knowledge is perfect if it is taken from the authority. Suppose man is mortal. So inductive process is that you examine every man whether he's mortal or immortal. So suppose you have seen millions of men, and they are all mortal, they die. Then your conclusion is man is mortal. But I can say you have not seen a man who does not die. I can say that. So this inductive knowledge will remain always imperfect. It will never be perfect, because your examination is limited. So I can that say you have not seen the person, man... Suppose if I say you have not seen Vyāsadeva, he's immortal. You have not seen Aśvatthāmā, he's immortal. So how this scientific research can be perfect, inductive? It is never perfect. Because you may be missing somebody who is immortal. Then your conclusion is wrong. There is no scope of studying all the living beings. There is no such scope. You have limited scope. So your seeing power is limited. How you can decide from the limited seeing power?

Rūpānuga: They will say, "Well, we have done so many good things, we have produced so many nice things."

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization. He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to him. Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society. They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices. When the Vedas were not accepted through the authoritative disciplic succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā a comment has been made on such foolish scholars. The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be bewildered. To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in all. They have no depth of knowledge. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, the whole system of the Vedas is to lead one gradually to the path of the Supreme Lord. The whole theme of Vedic literature is to know the Supreme Lord, the individual soul, the cosmic situation and the relations between all these items. When the relation is known, the relative function begins, and as a result of such a function the ultimate goal of life of going back to Godhead takes place in the easiest manner. Unfortunately, unauthorized scholars of the Vedas become captivated by the purificatory ceremonies only, and natural progress is checked thereby. To such bewildered persons of atheistic propensity, Lord Buddha is the emblem of theism. He therefore first of all wanted to check the habit of animal killing. The animal killers are dangerous elements on the path of going back to Godhead. There are two types of animal killers.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are two classes, Broadway and off-Broadway theater. Two different classifications. Broadway is very costly, big productions, very elaborate, and off-Broadway is more simple, but also very often there are good plays there. So this particular temple is located in an off-Broadway location. And actually it's very prestigious. We can advertise, and people will attend. They will definitely attend, and they'll even pay for the performances. We don't feel that we should charge yet, until the caliber of the performance is first class and until they have some full program. Because right now, just like this play only took about..., the dance only took about twenty-five minutes.

Prabhupāda: Altogether.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Unless they have something that is at least two hours, one and half, two hours, you cannot charge for. People will definitely pay.

Prabhupāda: Pay or not pay, doesn't matter. They should understand the meaning.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you feel that the message of the Gītā came through?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes.

Sudāmā: The precedence of our work, Śrīla Prabhupāda, should definitely be that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is clearly understood by all, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Along with it, if you, the same thing, more demonstrative, if you put some movies...

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Oh, jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He's a journalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They cannot settle up their misunderstanding here. By going to the moon planet, they'll do it.

Hari-śauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.

Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.

Pradyumna: You said in the Bhāgavatam just that, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.

Hari-śauri: A lot of the devotees had that experience living with their parents before they joined the movement. It was so hellish they had to get out. Then they, some way or other, met...

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Your destiny. Then your destiny.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They miss the order and the controller and the organizer...

Prabhupāda: That is whole purpose—how to defy God. That is their whole plan.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, the mind is attracted to that.

Prabhupāda: No, there are always two classes of men: devatā and demons. Demon class will always say like that, "There is no God. We are everything." Devatā class, they will always believe in. That is the difference, devatā class. This struggle will always be there. (Sanskrit) There are two classes of men throughout the whole universe. One is called daiva and the other is called asura. The Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ.(?) Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are daiva. And asura (Sanskrit). And those who are not devotees, they are just the opposite number, they are asura. So asura class will always (coughs) say like that. And there is always fight between the two, even in higher planetary systems. Only Brahmaloka, Satyaloka, there are no more asuras. So asura class will always fight like that, and devatā class will always defy. But for God everyone is equal, because all of them are sons of God. Therefore an attempt is always going on to turn the asuras to become devotees. For this purpose God Himself comes, He sends His representative, how these rascal asuras can be turned into devotees. Otherwise the asura class will always be there.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's the business of the representative.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They are wonderful rascals. Shameless. Wonderful shameless rascals. They say that the moon planet is desert, vacant, no living entities. And we say that it is the planet for the pious men to live there very opulently for ten thousand... Of these two classes of knowledge, which is better? We have got some evidence from the śāstra, but they have no evidence. They are simply speculating. Now this moon..., er, Mars, they'll find the same result. Then how long they will go on like this?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: As long as the society is godless...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: As long as the society's godless, then...

Prabhupāda: So how long they'll present the same theory over and over again? They're already putting the same thing. They have concluded in the moon there is rocks and sand, nobody can live. The same thing they are saying in a different way, and in the end they will have to say like that. Because they have no knowledge, it is simply theoretical. And they have no other alternative but to say the same thing again and again. What they will say?

Jñānagamya: They say on Mars there can be life because the conditions are a little bit like earth.

Prabhupāda: Suppose there is life, then what you gain?

Devotee: They say that our knowledge now is not mere theoretical because now we have gone there.

Prabhupāda: But what profit you have gained? You have spent some millions of dollars, that's all.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal.

Indian man: Ah. This who took the birth of this human being or animal was a gentleman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is gentleman by nature. But criminal by artificial means. As soon as...

Indian man: But even if you attain mokṣa is that eternal or just temporary and the until becomes lost, and then...

Prabhupāda: Mokṣa, there are two kinds of mokṣa. One, generally, they like that, to remain in impersonal Brahman.

Indian man: For a limited period.

Prabhupāda: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to, trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again. Similarly, you are living entity, you want enjoyment. So what enjoyment you will have in the sky? You require society, friends, love, everything. So these impersonalists, their mokṣa is temporary because they think by merging into the impersonal Brahman I shall be happy. But that he cannot. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Although they go to the impersonal Brahman, but there is no ānanda. The living entity is seeking after ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. By nature he is seeking ānanda. So you do not get any ānanda.

Indian man: Is that merger itself not ānanda?

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purely a spiritual movement. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult to understand the activities of this movement. There are two things, material and spiritual. That is the beginning of instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa begins with this statement: that this body is not the person, the soul is the person. Asmin dehe. Within this body there is the soul. And he has explained in different ways that this body is antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18). This body is perishable, but the soul is not perishable. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that even after the destruction of the body the soul is not destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul never takes birth, never dies. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). There are so many things explained, what is the soul. So without the soul, this body is useless. That everyone can understand. Therefore the importance should be given to the soul, not to the body. Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is paṇḍita, in knowledge, he does not give any importance to the body, either living or dead. So the India's particular culture is how to elevate the soul to the highest platform of perfection. That is India's culture. The whole Vedic literature is meant for that, and Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature. And the purpose is that soul is now entrapped within this material world, and the human life is the opportunity for getting oneself out of this entrapment of material existence. So if we do not take care of this important business of human life—as it is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra-athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for understanding about the Brahman or the spirit soul. And there are two kinds of spirit soul. One is called the Supersoul, and the other is called the individual soul. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñā. This chapter. Kṣetra means this body and kṣetrajñā means one who knows about the body. You know about your body.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: For the English program it is required, in order for them to have enough time to read and write, then they would require an hour and half, so they would have two classes.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, one and a half? You give ten minutes recess.

Jagadīśa: And during the recess what should they do?

Prabhupāda: Nothing. They'll be free. Nothing to do. Recess means nothing to do. That is brain, I mean to say, rest. All continually you cannot do that. That is not good. Utmost, forty minutes or forty-five minutes. Then give them ten minutes' freedom. Then begin another. Not more than forty to forty-five minutes at a time, reading, writing.

Jagadīśa: After class, then, by 12:30 they bathe again, second time.

Prabhupāda: They take prasādam first and then bathe?

Jagadīśa: They bathe... They take prasādam at 9:00 in the morning, 9:30. Then they have class. Then after class is finished, then they bathe.

Prabhupāda: After class they bathe?

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bhagatji: If students are in great number, then we shall introduce, otherwise...

Prabhupāda: Classes to be arranged according to the number of student increases. That's all. That shall be...

Jagadīśa: Now there are two classes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jagadīśa: There are two classes according to age.

Prabhupāda: Kata (?) according to time and circumstance.

Bhagatji: In my opinion, Prabhupāda, there should be one period for Hindi classes.

Prabhupāda: That's very nice.

Bhagatji: Forty minutes, forty-five minutes

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very good. That is essential. If the Indian students come they will require some vernacular like that.

Bhagatji: Hindi class there should be. In Vṛndāvana they will...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do that, Hindi.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: There is good sex life and bad sex life. One who does not know what is good sex life, what is bad sex life, he's a rascal. Here you have to indulge in sex life which is not against the religious principles. But you must know what is religious and what is irreligious. If you do not know, you are rascal. There are two kinds of sex life. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, "Sex life which is not against the religious principles, that I am." So God is good. So sex life which is not against the religious principles, that is good sex life. Otherwise, it is bad.

Indian man: Where Kṛṣṇa comments...

Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand this, that Kṛṣṇa says "Sex life which is not against the religious principles, that is I am." The sex life which is against the religious principles, that is bad.

Indian man: Can you explain to me what is good sex life and bad sex life.

Prabhupāda: Good sex life, when sex life is accepted for begetting good children. Just like in another place it is said pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. One should not become a father, one should not become mother, unless he or she can save his child from death. This is religious sex life. Suppose you are married. There is sex life. And both you and your wife decide that "Unless I am expert to save my child from death, we shall not have sex life." This is good sex life.

Indian man: It is negation of sex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise sex life is there in the cats and dogs. If you are going to be a dog? You must act as a human being. This is to act as human being, that "I shall not become a father, my dear wife, you should not become a mother, if both of us are not expert how to save the death of our child." This is good sex life. If you are not expert to execute this scientific method, that is bad sex life. It is the dog's sex life.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Asura-buddhi and sura-buddhi. Due to our little independence. Just like we are talking. So we do not agree. Therefore we are talking. So one of us may be asura and one may be sura. Therefore we do not agree. Otherwise, there is no use of talking. So that is natural. That is the conditioned stage. Because we are conditioned by the material nature, some of us are asuras and some of them suras. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of men. Daiva, devatā and asura. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ smṛto daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are devatā, and just opposite number is asura. Who does not recognize the authority of God, he is asura. He himself becomes God foolishly. That is not God. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. This, about the sun, description in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited potency, energy, heating energy. Such a powerful planet. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Still it is carrying out the order of somebody. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. I offer my obeisances to Govinda. But if I say I am equal to Govinda, I can stop sun. "Don't bother me by heating. Stop." Will it become...? Then how I become all-powerful? Let me stop the activities of the sun. Or at night there is no sun, can I ask the sun, "Get up, I want light immediately," is it possible? Then how I become the God? Nobody cares for my order.

Mr. Malhotra: They say those who know their bhāgavata, they call themselves Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: That anyone can say that I know my Bhagavān, nobody knows. I am Bhagavān but nobody cares for me. What kind of Bhagavān? It is rascal Bhagavān.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.

Jagadīśa: It has no value because there is no permanent connection between the spirit soul and the material energy. There are two kinds of energy: material energy and spiritual energy. We have experience of both. The material energy is described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: You can describe like this. Just like if a man is diseased, so the physician imposes upon him some restriction, do and do not. So if by mistake we give up the do not's, then it is useless. He should observe the do not's. Then he'll be cured. And if he does not observe the do not's—whatever he likes, he does—that means his disease is increasing. Therefore it is useless. The real aim of life is how to get out of the clutches of māyā which is forcing me to accept the cycle of birth and death. That is my disease. Therefore tapasya. Tapasya means restricted life, not unrestricted life. So if we do not follow the restricted life, that means I shall continue my disease or increase my disease. The modern civilization, we are teaching how to enjoy this material world to the fullest extent, bhogaiśvarya, sense gratification and for sense gratification, material opulence. But he does not know that he is killing himself. He is aggravating the disease. He has to accept another body. But that he does not know, that he'll have to take birth and die, again the same business. That he does not know. Therefore this civilization is misguided. Yesterday we were reading, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We have to purify our existence. So this aim is missing—how to purify it. Sattva, I am eternal. Now I am existing in a condition, birth and death. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). He does not know his interest. He's thinking, "This is life. Let me enjoy and there is no life after death, and even there is, who cares for it?" This is going on.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this way, if we have courses Monday to Sunday, we can have one big hall, just keep one hall for yoga class.

Prabhupāda: I mean you cannot give two kinds of classes in one room. That is not possible. That is nonsense. Even if you have got one student, he must be in that particular class. You cannot hold all the classes in one room, no, you have to... No, for seven days you have to give seven rooms, even there is one student.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if it is the same class... It's not going to be a different class.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Different verses we shall explain. It is different class.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We explain seven verses from Bhagavad-gītā on Monday. And the next seven verses will be in the next room, and those who are beginning, they will be in the first room.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's if you have two or three batches of tourists coming in at different times. But his idea was that all the tourists would come at one time and go through the course and then leave. And then a new batch would come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And if they came on Saturday for example...

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you understand? Why you are dull-headed? The one class is for one set of verses. Where is the difficulty? (break) ...so in the same class, it will be not good.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ask Yaśodānandana, Yaśomatī-nandana, immediately. You ask him for my brāhmaṇa... Yes. So very steadily do everything. Opposition will come. We have to face.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll arrange for your idlis, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Idlis and if dosa... Dosa?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's two types of dosas. One is masalā; one is sada. Masalā has got potatoes inside.

Prabhupāda: Potatoes?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, inside. What they do is... Inside it's like...

Prabhupāda: Which one is better?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sada is without.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sada? Or I'll get masalā if there are no onions in it. Sometimes they put onions.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If there's no onions, I'll get one masalā also. Okay.

Prabhupāda: (japa) Except in few provinces, everyone eats onion, all over the world. And garlic. In Western countries I think onion and garlic, cent percent they eat.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri:

yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ

tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī

yasyāṁ jāgrati bhūtāni

sā niśā paśyato muneḥ

"What is night for all beings is the time of awakening for the self-controlled, and the time of awakening for all beings is night for the introspective sage." Purport? "There are two classes of intelligent men. The one is intelligent in material activities for sense gratification and the other is introspective and awake for the cultivation of self-realization. Activities of the introspective sage or thoughtful man are night for persons materially absorbed. Materialistic persons remain asleep in such a night due to their ignorance of self-realization. The introspective sage remains alert in the 'night' of the materialistic men. The sage feels transcendental pleasure in the gradual advancement of spiritual culture, whereas the man in materialistic activities, being asleep to self-realization, dreams of varieties of sense pleasure, feeling sometimes happy and sometimes distressed in his sleeping condition. The introspective man is always indifferent to materialistic happiness and distress. He goes on with his self-realization activities undisturbed by material reaction."

Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, in this stanza, I have not followed a little. That stanza which he just read it. Now, a spiritual-bent-of-mind person, he sleeps in the daytime.

Prabhupāda: Materialist person...

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven years after. (laughs) So the body has not changed? Where is that body? Now I am with stick. (laughter) Then I was jumping. Is not that? I am there. I remember. The body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? I am the same person. How I am remembering all these things. But I have no... That body is now lost. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Why this simple philosophy these rascals cannot understand? I remember I am not the second man. I am the same person but I haven't got the same body. The whole world this simple philosophy cannot understand. Where is the difficulty? I cannot understand.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara prāptir

dhīra...

(BG 2.13)

because they are not dhīra. Dhīra means sober. They're rascals. They cannot understand. But dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are sober, they can understand immediately. So there is no education to make people sober and intelligent. All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, that's all. Animals. What they will understand about spiritual life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa... After all, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. This very word is used. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Adhira. There are two classes of men, dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means restless. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us something... Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra. What is next word?

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...in a different style. (break) ...money. These rascals are also after woman and money, in a different style. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately rejects him, that "He's a rascal. He's after women." Immediately. Asat strī-saṅgī. Two kinds of rascals—nondevotee of Kṛṣṇa and woman-hunter—reject immediately. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... The sannyāsa life is... What is that? Cent percent, no connection with woman. That is sannyāsa. What we have renounced? We have renounced... We are using the motorcar, we are using this machine, we are eating, we are sleeping in nice room—what is the renouncement? Only renouncement is no connection with woman. That is the real platform of renouncement. If one can renounce woman's connection, then he's liberated man. That is very, very difficult. (break) Except myself, they go for woman and money, that's all, in foreign countries. This is the position. This Vishnu, Vishnu... Vishnananda, Vishnu-ananda? Now what is that? One yogi is in Montreal?

Satsvarūpa: Vishnu-something-ananda.

Prabhupāda: He also is after women. That's all.

Satsvarūpa: Swami Sac-cid-ananda.

Prabhupāda: He is also.

Satsvarūpa: He was exposed with fourteen-year-old girl.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?

Hari-śauri: Proletariat.

Prabhupāda: What is that proletariat?

Satsvarūpa: The laborers.

Prabhupāda: That's all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kṣatriya and brāhmaṇa?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?

Hari-śauri: Proletariat.

Prabhupāda: What is that proletariat?

Satsvarūpa: The laborers.

Prabhupāda: That's all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kṣatriya and brāhmaṇa?

Hari-śauri: Well, they're all giving stress to accumulation of weapons. They're all giving stress to...

Prabhupāda: That is not kṣatriya's business. That is... That is... No, that is described. Kṛṣṇa said... He arranged the battlefield, because the kṣatriyas, they became very powerful by individual military strength as it is now...

Room Conversation -- February 21, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And asura means tad-viparyaya, just the opposite. So anyone... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, he's a demon. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Daiva means devatā. So there are two classes-daiva asura eva ca: one devatā and one asura. One who is devotee, he is devatā. One who is not devotee, he's asura. That's all, in different names. So our this movement is making the asuras to become devatās. This is our movement. This is, therefore, the most prominent welfare activities within the human society. We are trying to make demon to become devatā. And actually they are becoming. The demons are becoming devatā. Is it not?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: And the so-called education, they are making devatā demons. We want to check it. The human being, he has got the opportunity. Human being is there to become a devatā. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is there, because he's coming from lower species of life, and they also admit they are coming from monkey. That's all right. But now make him man really. Where is that arrangement? You are keeping him monkey, jumping like monkey. That's all. So your, this so-called educational system, society, is good, or we are making the monkey to become to become devatā, this is good? What they will say? You have come from monkey, and now we are making them devatā. So this is a good process? Or you keep them as monkey, jumping like here and there, that is good? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the way to make a monkey to become a demigod, or devatā. This is the Vedic injunction. "Now you should make him, this monkey, person coming from monkey, or a monkey, make him a devatā." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has simplified: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dhīra means who is restful, not restless; dhīra, whose brain is cool, sober. Just like a high-court judge. He is sitting simply, and the cāparāsī, he is busy. The cāparāsī gets, say, two hundred rupees, and he gets five thousand rupees. But he is doing nothing, a dhīra, 'cause his importance is many, many times greater than the cāparāsī. So dhīra means sober. If we become sober, not restless, then it is possible to understand. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. There are two classes: dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra means always foolishly busy, and dhīra means sober. He's trying to understand what is God. That is dhīra.

Guest (1): That is actually what we have always taught, you know, to do it. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇy evā...

Guest (1): (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: No, simply you do not quote that verse. You first begin from ABCD. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Unless you begin ABCD, you cannot go, immediately jump up to the M.A. class.

Guest (1): No, that karma itself is not something...

Prabhupāda: No, why do you quote karma? Why you do not quote the beginning, the beginning of ABCD? If you have no knowledge of the ABCD, then karma... The monkey is also very busy, jumping, but as soon as a monkey comes, "Eh! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is thinking he's very busy. That, such kind of karma, will simply create disturbance. We must know what is karma. Karmaṇo hy api boddhavyam. We should understand what is karma. So anyway...

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, anyone, newcomer, give him very nice place, nice food. Food and shelter is the first consideration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) We got to arrange for food for him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I told you that we have improved the quality of the composing. So this is a new style of composing. It is about... They have a new alphabet, cleaner. They are using better art paper. And I have shown it to our production manager. He also says the reproduction of it would be much better. I have improved the quality of art paper on which they are doing the art proofs. So I just got this one made, and I wanted to show it to you. We are experimenting with two types of composing. Now, this takes in more words, but what we will do at the time of printing, we will shoot it and it will become small, like the regular book, and this way we can get in more space. And this...

Prabhupāda: How many lines?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is about... Three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty, twenty... Thirty-three. But it's also little broader. It's a little broader than the others, thirty-three lines.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still looks like there's a lot space.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's okay because when it is shot it will be reduced even further. This is... You shouldn't go by the space. It's already bigger than a normal size page. But when it is... It'll be shot by the camera and reduced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But relatively, it looks like there's a lot of space here.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satisfaction of the soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda just mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the Adhokṣaje.

Prabhupāda: Adhokṣaje. Yato bhaktiḥ. When you become a devotee, then you'll go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is required.

Prabhupāda: That is the aim of life. So everything is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And then these unfortunate rascals, they are distorting. What can I do? How to stop it?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "Why should we accept that there will be a next life?"

Prabhupāda: Rascal, why you are accepting old age? You are young man. You have to accept, become. Why you are accepting, rascal? Answer this.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You understand English?

Mrs. Kumar: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, yes, she is a graduate.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There are two kinds of religion. One is param, and one is aparam. Para means real religion. Yes. Or spiritual. And apara means material. Generally people are engaged in apara religion. They go to temple, they go to church...

Surendra Kumar: And mosques.

Prabhupāda: ...and mosques for some material benefit. Just like these Christians, "O God, give us our daily bread." We also go to temple. So that is apara. And para means when there will be no demand.

Surendra Kumar: No demand from God.

Prabhupāda: Simply to love Him. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is para. Our, this line is little difficult, because we are teaching paro dharma.

Surendra Kumar: That's what I was telling her all the time.

Prabhupāda: And the human form of life, this is the only business. This is the only business. But they do not know. They are after... They go to dharma for some material benefit. Dharmasya apavargasya.

Surendra Kumar: My sister says that "Unless and until God so wishes..."

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The professors challenge him... What...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There was a challenge?

Mr. Myer: Yes, one of his disciples was recently caught. He had lot of vibhūti inside, hidden inside his body. So when he lay down they say that lot of vibhūti was coming out. So when they opened the shirt it was just filled with whole thing inside. That is one of his very close disciples, they are... But he is still managing to get away. His argument is that there are two types of people who come to him. One who is spiritually advanced, for them he does not show any miracles. But there are some poor people who do not believe in God unless you show the miracle, so therefore he gives all these mūrtis and... I told, once (indistinct) with him last year. So I was sitting there and suddenly, you see, he just did something and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let's see him save himself from death. Let's see him make the miracle that he can save himself from dying. That he cannot do.

Mr. Myer: Whole thing is, in the last four, five years. Once they tried to buy my chairman's car, they want to buy. It is big Chevrolet car he has got.

Prabhupāda: I have heard that he's a big drunkard.

Mr. Myer: No, he wanted buy a car from my chairman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That man is a big drunkard.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can show him the record? Huh? (pause)

Hari-śauri: Pomegranate juice, then this...

Dr. Ghosh: Rajule.(?) Expectorant. Expectorant. There are two kinds. His urine report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have just sent for the detailed urine report. I sent for it. It will just be coming. Just coming. But daily, you can see, this is how much he's taking in, this is how much urine is going out.

Dr. Ghosh: Yes. Yes. Go through them. So first let me have a good wash.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. So Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja, maybe you can help Dr. Ghosh to get into a nice room? (Prabhupāda and Dr. Ghosh talking in Bengali )

Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry. No.

Prabhupāda: Give him the best room. And have... Give him best wash.

Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry, don't worry. I will just...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry, don't worry. Please, please be comfortable. (Bengali) (break)

Hari-śauri: ...he died recently.