Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing

Expressions researched:
"Close the slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, take it when the cow is dead" |"Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it" |"Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death" |"Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing" |"Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing" |"You eat it. After death" |"after killing, everyone eats, so why not wait for the natural death and eat it" |"if you are still ambitious to eat the meat, flesh, just wait, it will die, you take at that time" |"the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead" |"the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies" |"when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof" |"you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also"

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

What is that "fresh"? Unless you kill the animal, you cannot eat. So where is freshness? You have to kill him. You have to make it dead, so why not make it natural dead?

Lecture on BG 16.7 -- Hyderabad, December 15, 1976:

Just like we are protecting cows. We cannot kill for the skin, but these asuras, they are killing thousands and thousands of cows for getting the skin, only for the skin. So if you are interested in the skin, if you are interested in the flesh, so at least wait for the time the animal will die. There is no doubt about it. So at least let him, let her die natural death. Why you should kill? You can take at that time the skin, the bone, the hoof. Whatever you like, you can take, the flesh. So in India there is a class. They are called cāmāra. They are called opposite, muci. Śuci and muci. The first class is śuci, brāhmaṇa, and the last class is the muci. The last class men, muci, they... As soon as your animal is dead you give them information. They will come. They'll take the animal. They will get the skin for nothing. So they'll tan it and make shoes for selling. So they will get the raw materials free of charges, so they can make shoes. Tanning with oil and keeping it in the sunshine, the skin becomes soft and durable, and then you can prepare shoes. A class of men, muci. So there was no problem. And the bones you gather together and keep in a place. In due course of time it will become very good fertilization. And they can eat the flesh also. Only the cobbler class, the muci class, they eat this cow's flesh after taking the dead animal. So after killing, everyone eats, so why not wait for the natural death and eat it?

But because they are asuras, rākṣasas, they do not wait for that. They want the fresh. What is that "fresh"? Unless you kill the animal, you cannot eat. So where is freshness? You have to kill him. You have to make it dead, so why not make it natural dead? And they have imagined something, this, that, vitamins, and so on, so on. This is asuras. So these asuras, they do not know that killing of an animal is sinful. You cannot... Just like we are sitting here, and if somebody comes and disturbs us and makes us obliged to leave this place, that is criminal. That is criminal. Similarly, a living entity has been ordained by the nature's law that he has to live in such and such body for a certain period. Living entity never dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So killing the body, he does not die, but because you disturb him, his duration of period to live in that body, you become sinful. You cannot disturb him.

Sometimes these rascals put the argument that living entity does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Big, big sannyāsī rascals, they give this argument that "What is the wrong if it is killed?" No. He does not die. But because... Just like if somebody disturbs, we have to go out from this place. But that is criminal. You cannot disturb me. That is criminal, unlawful disturbance. So similarly, the living entity will not die after being killed or the body being annihilated. But because one disturbs him, therefore he is punishable. He becomes criminal. But because they do not know, asuras, the rules and regulation, God's law...

That is dharma. Dharma means to know the rules and regulation given by God. That is dharma. Dharmaṁ tu... Just like you must know the government's laws, similarly, you must know what is God's law.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures

The muci class, they eat this flesh, meat. But they are given the opportunity when the cow is dead, not by slaughterhouse. That is not in the Vedic scripture. The dead animal, you can eat. Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing.

Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.1 -- Atlanta, March 1, 1975:

Uncleanliness is muci, cobbler. They are dealing always with skin, and bad smell, and no bathing. So in our country, muci, the cobbler, is taken as the lowest of the mankind, narādhamāḥ, because their business is when the cow dies, so the mucis are prepared to take away the dead cow or bull. They eat the flesh, and they take out the skin and the bones for their business. Muci prepare shoes. He gets the skin for nothing, without any payment. He doesn't have to invest his capital, and he nicely cleanses it, tans, and then prepares shoes and sell in the market. So get the money. And the muci class, they eat this flesh, meat. But they are given the opportunity when the cow is dead, not by slaughterhouse. That is not in the Vedic scripture. The dead animal, you can eat. Those who are fond of eating fish and meat, they can eat when the animal is dead. Not killing. That is not very good thing. So the muci class, their business is to take the dead... After all, everyone will die. The animal will die also. Even if we keep the cows, don't kill, it will die. So some cow is dying here, some cow is dying there. Just like the vulture, they eat dead body. So dead body must be there. So they have no scarcity of dead bodies. They can find out dead body. They go three miles above to find out where is the dead body. So that is also sense gratification. So in this way there are classes, śuci and muci. Śuci is the first-class, cleansed internally and externally human being, and the muci means the low class, very unclean, eating the dead meat, cows and bulls.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now, this is our proposal, that why you should kill cow? Cow may be protected to take milk, and use this milk for so many nice preparations. Then, so far meat-eating is concerned, so every cow will die. It is a fact. So you wait a few days only. There will be so many dead cows. So you take all the dead cows and eat. So where is the bad proposal? If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the western countries now, the young people, when their parents grow old, they generally send them away to old age homes. So if they have no compassion even towards their own parents, that they would send them away, then how can we educate them to protect the cow which is just like mother if they're even willing to practically kill their parents?

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat fast enough, they're eating so much beef.

Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death. Where is the restriction? You have got a limited number of cows. Either you wait for the death, or you kill it at once, the number of cows are the same. So we simply request you that you don't kill them. Wait for the natural death and take it. What is the wrong? The number of cows is the same. You cannot increase it. Increase or decrease, the number of cows is there. So we simply request you that so long they're alive, let us take it's milk, and give nice foodstuff to the human society.

We recommend the meat-eaters who eat dogs, as Korea, they're eating dogs, so you can eat also dog. You eat it. After death. We don't say don't eat. You are so much fond of eating. All right. You eat. Because after the death, we have to give somebody, some living entity.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...giving to the vultures. Let the flesh-eaters take it. He did not like this idea much. (laughs)

Yogeśvara: It would ruin the economy.

Prabhupāda: Economy? What is that economy?

Yogeśvara: Because there's so much business that depends on the slaughter and the sale of animal flesh. Just like in India now, there is such a low economy that in some of the communist states, they've decided to export meat because it's good...

Prabhupāda: You can export after death. What is the wrong? You can export. Immediately, you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also, skin and flesh, and put it into refrigerator and make export. We simply say that until the death of the cow, don't kill. Let us take the milk. That is our appeal only. What is the wrong there?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Also, the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling us in Geneva that in India it was, at least until the present day forbidden to eat cows, and that those who would eat animals, they would eat dogs or goats, like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We recommend the meat-eaters who eat dogs, as Korea, they're eating dogs, so you can eat also dog. But don't... You eat it. After death. We don't say don't eat. You are so much fond of eating. All right. You eat. Because after the death, we have to give somebody, some living entity. So generally, it is given to the vultures. So why to the vultures? Take the civilized men, who are as good as vultures. (laughter) The so-called civilized men. Yes. What is the difference between the vultures and these rascals? The vultures also enjoy a dead body. And they also kill, make it dead and enjoy. They're vultures.

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right.

This is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained?

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia. So we are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained?

I requested that "You are one of the important men. Why don't you agree? Close the slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, take it when the cow is dead. We shall supply you?" What is their objection? What is the possible objection?

Car Conversation on the way to Chateau -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have created problems. Therefore we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for their benefit. Let them cooperate, and we shall make solution of all problems-political, social, everything. Let them come and cooperate. (pause) They are not agreeable to close the slaughterhouse? Yesterday, you were not present when that mayor came?

Bhagavān: I was there.

Prabhupāda: I requested that "You are one of the important men. Why don't you agree? Close the slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, take it when the cow is dead. We shall supply you?" What is their objection? What is the possible objection?

Bhagavān: Objection is that the people have become so impatient for sense gratification, they have no patience anymore. They can't wait... There was some story. In the United States, there has been this trouble with petrol, and... All over the world, there's been this trouble with petrol, gasoline. So there was rationing. That means people could only get a little gas. So the cars would line up for a great distance in the gas station, and they'd wait for a long time. And sometimes the gas station would run out of gas. And the people would get so angry that they killed the gas station attendant. (break) ...does not teach anyone to be austere or patient.

Prabhupāda: But human life is meant for austere and patience. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Austerity, penance, that is human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. Simply animal civilization. It is not human civilization.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. They eat this cows' flesh when the animal is dead, not living and we'll kill.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: So meat-eating is current among these lower class of men, śūdras and caṇḍālas. The caṇḍālas, they have no discrimination, they eat everything, and śūdras, they eat meat, but under restriction. Some of them do not; some of them do, but under restriction, and that is restricted with the goat animal. Less than the śūdras-caṇḍālas, pañcama, fifth grade—they eat everything. Especially they eat—because cow protection in India is very strict—so these caṇḍālas, fifth grade men, they eat generally pigs. Pigs they eat. Outside the village, they have their residential quarters, and they fry live pigs. And they make... Not daily; sometimes. But they eat pigs, and amongst them, there is a class—they are cobblers—they eat this cows' flesh when the animal is dead, not living and we'll kill.

Bernard Manischewitz: He dies his own natural death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the higher class, they keep cows, they maintain, but after all, the animal will die. So when the animal dies, they call for this cobbler class, and he takes away the dead cows. So he gets out the skin, hooves, bones and flesh, they eat, and this skin is tanned by them, and they prepare shoes. So they get their raw material without any price.

Bernard Manischewitz: I see, yes. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They are poor class. So our program, "When he will die," so they wait for the death of the animal and get the skin, hoof, bones, they make trade. (to devotee:) So what is this key, the elmira?

Devotee: No, that is a little spoon for your tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So cow is very important animal. So from religious point of view, or from economic point of view, cows are not allowed, in the Vedic civilization, to be killed. The meat-eaters, they are everywhere, all over the world, but in India meat-eating is allowed—the fifth class, fifth grade community, they eat these cows when it is dead. And the śūdra class, they also eat meat restrictively, goats. That is only under certain restriction, means sacrifice. The goat is sacrificed in the Goddess Kali's temple, and they eat. This is very dangerous, this sacrifice. It is very dangerous. It creates all sinful men. In the Christian religion also, it is said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are killing. So what kind of Christians they are?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bernard Manischewitz: Do they kill them in a slaughterhouse? The goats?

Prabhupāda: No.

Bernard Manischewitz: Like a sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bernard Manischewitz: I see.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

You are eating beef because of the blood. So if you take the blood in a different way, you get the same benefit. And if you are still ambitious to eat the meat, flesh, just wait, it will die, you take at that time. Why so hurry? Everyone will die, there is no doubt about it. So you take the dead body and eat.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: If you kill the cow you get the meat only one time. But if you allow the cow to live and take milk, and from milk you can make hundreds and thousands of preparations. That is enjoyment, real enjoyment. In Delhi, there are shops, very respectable shops. One side salt, and one side sweet. But the salt side or sweet side, they're all based on ghee. This preparation, dahibarā, so nice. Combination of grain and yogurt. So introduce this. They do not know. It is a new type of civilization we are trying to introduce for the benefit of the human society. They do not know it. Crude civilization. Primitive. Kill an animal and eat. And when you are civilized, you are supposed to know so many things; why should you kill the animal? You utilize the animal. This milk is taking the blood without killing. That is humanity. You are eating beef because of the blood. So if you take the blood in a different way, you get the same benefit. And if you are still ambitious to eat the meat, flesh, just wait, it will die, you take at that time. Why so hurry? Everyone will die, there is no doubt about it. So you take the dead body and eat. Why do they not?

Hari-śauri: They said there's something wrong with it. When it dies, it has so many diseases and things.

Prabhupāda: This is rascaldom. They are eating so many dead animals.

Their business is shoe maker. So when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof. They make business without any, what is called, investment.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This business of simply taking economics into consideration...

Prabhupāda: They do not. Rascals... How to live, they do not know. Animals. There is a class of men in India, they take, I told you, the dead body of a cow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Cobblers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mucis?

Prabhupāda: Muci, yes. Their business is shoe maker. So when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof. They make business without any, what is called, investment. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). That is economic. He gets the skin without any price, and he makes shoes and gets full profit. But that is for a class of men, not for all. Economic gain for a cobbler is not the economic gain for a brāhmaṇa. "One man's food another man's poison."

Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No why should...? After all, the animal is going to die. It is not for..., he's permanently. Why should you kill?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they kill the animal first in the slaughterhouse and then do whatever they have to do.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is...

Prabhupāda: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But the old flesh is not...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you do not..., you do whatever you like. So at least you can take free of charges a dead cow from us, and you can give us only the skin, and you eat.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: This should be the system.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's so reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Just like in our country the cāmāras, they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters, that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (8): You'll be talking about the cow protection also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). He is giving you. That is our duty. I told these boys, "The cows, whether they give milk or not milk, it doesn't matter. They should be given protection."

Guest (8): They should be given?

Prabhupāda: Given protection. If Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya... He doesn't say only give protection to the milk cow.

Guest (8): Once they expire, how do you propose to expose of the body?

Prabhupāda: Then they can eat, those who are eating cows. Just like in our country the cāmāras, they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters, that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"

Guest (9): So you support actually government ban of slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Guest (9): After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): You have no objection.

Prabhupāda: No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't... We say, "Don't kill."

Guest (9): After the natural death, not slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Yes.