Indian: ...relatives for temporary time. Our books of literature also projected the Supreme Being as the perfect one. How do you reconcile the two things? How do we accept that... Your teachings are based on the assumption that that person who lived for that period of time is the perfect person. But how do you fundamentally assure that what He has said is correct? How do you reconcile the two points?
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that one has to understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Before your asking, I have already explained that if that person, Kṛṣṇa, whom you think that He lived for a certain period with friends and relatives just like ordinary man, if you simply study what is this person, then you'll be comforted (competent?). Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). To understand Him in fact, it is not so easily. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
Out of many millions of persons, one becomes siddha, perfect. So that perfection is not complete perfection. That perfection means ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this material body; I am spirit soul." So one who understands this position of oneself is calculated as perfect, but yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), in that perfect stage if one endeavors to understand Kṛṣṇa, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid, out of many such millions of persons who trying to understand Kṛṣṇa in perfection, one may understand. So it is not so easy. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānā... (BG 4.9), again tattvataḥ. That factual understanding is possible. How it is possible? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only through devotion you can understand. So these problems will be solved when you become a devotee. Then Kṛṣṇa will reveal. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). If you try to understand that Supreme Person Kṛṣṇa, who comes before you as ordinary person, you can understand Him if you become His devotee. Otherwise it is not possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa or His name, His form, His pastimes, His activities—na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ—by your imperfect senses. But sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphurati. When you are engaged in His service, then He reveals Himself: "Here I am." So this is the process. If you want to understand that person, Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you have to take shelter of bhakti-yoga and associate with bhaktas. Then it is possible. Otherwise not.
Indian (2): Praṇāmas, Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian (2): Shri Gandhiji was also great admirer of the Gītā and a great scholar and a great..., made commentary also. But he at the time of the great war asked the great powers to let Hitler come in and not fight him at all. But where have you... He said that Hitler change of heart that would be effective and not that punishment. That means punishment is a fault, and I would like your enlightenment on this paradox.
Prabhupāda: The punishment... Kṛṣṇa does not personally punish. He has got many agents. Just like in the government, the president does not punish directly, but there are many departments. Similarly, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His potencies are manyfold. One of the potency is this material nature. It is called māyā. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to surpass the jurisdiction of māyā, duratyayā. But punishment will not be excused. Ignorance of law is no excuse. Similarly, this māyā, this material nature, is very, very strong. If you eat little more... Your nature is to eat, say, two ounce. If you eat three ounce immediately you'll be punished. There will be indigestion. The nature is so strong. Therefore it is called daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. So in this way you cannot surpass the stringent laws of māyā, but if you want to avoid punishment, then you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is essential. If we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if we follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no question of being harassed by the stringent laws of māyā. This is the version.