Prabhupāda: Teṣām. Who are those, teṣām? Not all.
Chandobhai: Bhaktas.
Prabhupāda: Satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, teṣām. It is a special favor for them. Teṣām evānukampārtham. So if Kṛṣṇa dissipates ignorance from the heart of a person, how he can be less intelligent? If somebody is guided by the most perfect intellect . . . intellectual, then how he can be less intelligent? So these Māyāvādīs' accusation that bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class and jñāna is meant for higher class of men, so this accusation is refuted, that "No, don't think that the devotees are less intelligent, because I am guiding them."
Dr. Patel: Nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho, aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ. Tamaḥ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho.
Prabhupāda: Tamaḥ. No more ignorance, darkness. So how a devotee can be in darkness, in ignorance? This is refuted.
Dr. Patel: Now arjuna uvāca.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel:
- arjuna uvāca.
- paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
- pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
- puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam
- ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum
- (BG 10.12)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that"? If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said: "You are . . . you are the Supreme Person, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal . . ." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Dr. Patel: That same line. Puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Ādi. Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam, He is the original person. Person. He is not imperson. Puruṣam is not imperson. Brahman is imperson, but Para-brahman is not imperson. So that is Kṛṣṇa. So therefore it is called paraḥ, param. Brahman realization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, "You inquire about Brahman."
Chandobhai: All-pervading, vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Vibhum, yes, all-pervading. Just like the same example: the sun. The sun is all-pervading by sunshine, but still, sunshine is not important as the sun globe. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa . . . let us understand one line. Para-brahman. Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. But they are Para-brahman. Īśvara, everyone is īśvara. That's all right. But not everyone Parameṣvara.