Prabhupāda: He said that he has converted one million persons to be vegetarian. So vegetarian, automatically our disciples, they are automatically vegetarian. There is no separate preaching. And what about the... He was talking about the ahiṁsā. And I told that vegetarian does not mean ahiṁsā.
Dr. Patel: The ahiṁsā should be practiced by... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, in the śāstra it is said that ahastāni sa-hastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Phalgūni tatra mahatām.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Phalgūni tatra mahatām.
Prabhupāda: Ah, phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam.
Prabhupāda: Mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. This is natural, that one jīva is the food for another jīva. So how ahiṁsā is possible?
Dr. Patel: That has been said in Rāmāyaṇa by that Matan(?) Muni, you know, Matan Muni who was harboring Saubhari, and then he was killing one elephant and living on the elephant for one year, and all other ṛṣis were against him. He was, I mean, not practicing ahiṁsā. Then he gave the feast to all those ṛṣis, and the lāḍu starting moving about. Everywhere there is life, I mean, every grain of the wheat or...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore how it is possible? Because, after all, apart from Matan(?) Muni, if this is the rule, that one living entity is the food for another living entity... This is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. You cannot starve and live.
Dr. Patel: But sir...
Prabhupāda: And practically... Eh?
Dr. Patel: We are killing the body and not... The soul is inkillable.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't go to the philosophy. First of all come to the practical. (Dr. Patel laughs) Come to the practical point of view, that after all, you have to eat; otherwise you cannot live. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. So if you have to live another living entity, then how you can practice this ahiṁsā? Mean on the basic principle, the ahiṁsā paramo dharma, where is ahiṁsā? You have to kill. Either you kill vegetable or animal, you have to kill. Then where is the standing of ahiṁsā? That is my point.
Dr. Patel: When you kill purposelessly, without any useful...
Prabhupāda: No, no. No interpretation. They say that "no killing." So no killing is not possible. That is my point. Then where is the thesis stands, that "We are for not, no killing"?
Dr. Patel: Every action, sir, is, I mean, entangled in this.
Prabhupāda: So then our Vaiṣṇava's philosophy is perfect, because we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam." How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that "Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect." The goats are vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: (laughter) And we are indirectly vegetarians if we eat goats.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if we vegetarian are, then how you become big? The goats are vegetarian. Huh? Apadāni catuṣ-padām. This vegetable is meant for the catuṣ-padām, for the animals, four-legged animals. If somebody says that "Why shall I take this vegetable? It is meant for the animals. I shall take the animal." That is a good argument. Yes. So to become vegetarian is not ahiṁsā at all. It is a bogus theory. To become a devotee and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, that is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So automatically...
Dr. Patel: He does not say, "Give me a, I mean, a (Hindi)."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam.
Prabhupāda: That. Then there is perfection, if you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. So this vegetarianism is no good position.
Dr. Patel: No, no, the Jains have, I mean, pushed the vegetarians to a very, I mean, to an extent which is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the benefit? The benefit? The goats are vegetarian. Eh? There are so many animals. They are vegetarian. The monkeys are vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: They are perfect vegetarian. Perfect.
Prabhupāda: And they live in the forest.
Dr. Patel: They are sannyāsīs. (laughs)