Prabhupāda: There is a story in Bengal. (Bengali) The woman had seven sons. The mother requested first son, "My dear boy, now I am going to die. Take me to the Ganges side." He said: "Why? You have got so many other sons, why you are requesting me?"
Dr. Patel: She was calling every one, and nobody took her.
Prabhupāda: And then second son, third . . . everyone said like that, and she died without Gaṅgā. Agar mā gaṅgā.(?) So this . . . and everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work today."
Gurudāsa: You tell the story about a man beating with a stick, and then the police constable came and said, "You have beaten him." "No, no, no. It was the stick that beat him, not me." (laughter) No responsibility.
Dr. Patel: No, but, you see, the sense of possession in human society is more important. Because they have no sense of possession.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Even with all our philosophic and all our ideal learning, we have the sense of possession of this body which can't leave the moha in it. With all that, sir, then how can they do it?
Prabhupāda: No, higher than that, the sense that everything is possessed by God, that is perfection.
Dr. Patel: That's right, but . . .
Prabhupāda: But they are making . . . just like I possess something, now their possession is . . . now you possess something. We are not reaching the point of God. So it is expanded selfishness. It is not perfect. Perfection will come when they understand that everything is possessed by God. Then that is perfect. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). When they come to that conclusion.
Dr. Patel: They have started doing. Even grammar is good. They have started studying the Upaniṣad in quite earnest now. I read a very good article on that, Russian newspapers, studying the philosophy of Vedas and Upaniṣads. (break)
Prabhupāda: They read Rāmāyaṇa by Tulasī dāsa, translated in English, and it was finished within a week. They have got little sympathy for Indian culture.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This idea that he was discussing, how we naturally have a tendency to possess something—if I don't possess the state, I possess the body. Is this the disease?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to nullify this, that "I don't possess anything; God possess everything." Then it is perfection.
Dr. Patel: No, that is why, sir, this communism cannot survive, because they say that afterward the state will vanish. It will evaporate. How can it evaporate without spiritualism there at the back? They have a materialistic ideology and material, I mean, there are changes. There is nothing permanent in material. So the communism, so-called material communism, dialectic materialism of Karl Marx, are not full. (break)
Gurudāsa: Your name is man, and Dr. Patel . . . you've been given a title, "Dr. Patel."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda gave an example that if you see a note on the floor . . .
Dr. Patel: Only name of God has value.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . one person walks by . . .
Prabhupāda: Practical application.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda gave the example that if you see a note on the floor, three different people, one person sees it and ignores it, so he doesn't know the proper utilization of the thing. Another person sees it, picks it up and puts it in his pocket. He is dishonest. The third person sees it, picks it up, and seeks out the real owner. So there has to be Kṛṣṇa consciousness; otherwise how do we know who everything belongs to?
Dr. Patel: That is spiritual concern. And spirit itself . . . Kṛṣṇa is . . . I mean, without Kṛṣṇa there cannot be anything. That is the highest culture.