Yogeśvara: He says that he agrees, he accepts this elementary knowledge, but he says you must have in your teachings some higher knowledge which will permit everyone to do away with this nationalism, to do away with this false ego and this pride. What is that knowledge?
Prabhupāda: So that knowledge is God consciousness, that just like in my body, your body, his body, what is the important thing? The important thing is the living force. So just like you are a person, I am a person, he is also a person. But what is the important thing in you, in me, and in him? What do you think?
Yogeśvara: (translates) Is that right? Did I translate?
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that... First of all he is very grateful that we are now approaching these higher spiritual questions. He says his understanding is that this living force inside all of us is the spirit of God that is in every one of us.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: But he says now... But there must be something more than just these words. There must be some way of experiencing that, of realizing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is experiencing, that because the spirit soul is there in you, in me, or anywhere, therefore the body is moving. Just try to understand. And as soon as the spirit soul is out of this body, then it is useless, a lump of matter. Therefore the living force, or the spirit soul, is important. That you have to accept.
Yogeśvara: (translates) Was there something else that I missed?
Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)
Yogeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is admitted? Anything, anything. Just like the big 747 plane is flying but the important thing is there, the pilot. So the motor car, big motor car, big machine, is moving but the important thing is the operator. So if you study that the matter is simply an agency of movement... Real mover is the spirit. You have to admit.
Yogeśvara: Yes, they are willing to.
Prabhupāda: Then the whole cosmic manifestation, this material nature, there must be also the moving force. That is God. Now, just like within this body I am the person and under my command the body is going, working. I am asking the hand, "Please come here." Immediately... So I am also īśvara, means controller. So far this body is concerned, I am the controller. Similarly, the supreme controller, He is called parameśvara, "the supreme controller." That is God.
Yogeśvara: You can translate that?
Guru-gaurāṅga: (translates)
Prabhupāda: So there are two īśvaras. I am also īśvara. So far my, this body is concerned or my family is concerned, I am controlling. But the supreme controller, He is controlling everything. That is God. So those who are atheists, they must accept that there is the supreme controller, and He is God. So God is controlling everything. There are two things—material and spiritual. We have got experience. Suppose in this city of...
Swiss Man (4): Geneva.
Prabhupāda: Geneva, there are varieties of living entities and also houses and mountains. So two things, animate and inanimate. One section, animate; another section, inanimate. So we are small gods, or īśvaras. We may control the government and the management of the street and parks and everything, but we are controlled by the supreme. As supreme God, the supreme controller is not controlled by anyone. I am controlling, but I am being controlled by somebody else. That is God. So therefore we have to admit, we must admit that we are not free. We are controlled. Eh? By superior power or superior controller we are controlled. Therefore our duty is to be controlled according to His desire. So if we agree to be controlled by the Supreme, that is perfect life. And if we do not like to come to be controlled by the supreme, that is sinful life. And this is the perfect knowledge.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Guru-gaurāṅga: He is very happy with your answer. He says, "I am content."
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that for Christians, this feeling of being with God comes from praying to Lord Jesus Christ. He's asking if Kṛṣṇa has that same position for us.
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, and Christ is son of God. We don't find any difference between the son and the father.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he thinks, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he says, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Well, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the same thing. It is external. Kṛṣṇa... Somebody says Kṛṣṇa is avatāra of Viṣṇu, and we say that Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Now, this example I have already given. Just like one candle. The another, ignite another candle, ignite another candle... Now, all these candles, so far light-giving power the same. But you can call, "This is first candle. This is second candle." And if you say the second candle is first candle, so there is no trouble because the candle power is the same.