Prabhupāda: Need for God. Yes. Scientist, you are also writing?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is need. (break) . . . not falling down. Why the law of gravitation is violated?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the cells are alive when the . . .
Prabhupāda: They say. They have got this cell theory.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So there is a . . .
Prabhupāda: Therefore under condition, this law of gravitation works. It is not unconditional. Then the question will . . . who will make the condition?
Karandhara: Well, they say that the ripe . . . the green apple's not falling is just a case of an opposite factor being stronger than the pull of gravity. The strength of the twig holding the apple on is stronger than the pull of gravity.
Prabhupāda: That I say, that the law of gravitation acts under certain condition. This is also conditional.
Karandhara: Well, the law of gravitation is always working, so the energy is always there. It's just not strong enough to pull the apple down.
Prabhupāda: Working under condition. Working under condition.
Karandhara: Well, scientists say that everything works under condition.
Prabhupāda: Just like you take a little needle, it will go immediately down the water, and you give a big log, it will not go. The weight of the needle and the weight of the big log, much different. Still, the needle will go; the gravitation will work. But to the log it will not work.
Karandhara: Well, there is a counter-law, called buoyancy.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, there are so many laws. If the laws are fulfilled, then your so-called gravitation work. So who made the laws? That is the point. Under certain law, condition, it will not act, and under certain condition it will act. Then who made the condition? That is the question. You cannot make finalize the laws of gravitation. It is also under condition. Who makes this condition? That is the point.
(break) . . . Lord Rāmacandra constructed the bridge with stone on the ocean, it began to float. So He is the condition-maker. He made the condition. He changed the condition, "Now these stones will float." That's all. Therefore God is supreme. (break) Law of gravitation did not work when Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that is nice. The scientific discoveries act under relative condition. That is not absolute, final. If such-and-such conditions are there, then the so-called scientific laws will act. Otherwise it will not act. (break) . . . see. But you cannot see even so many things. Now you cannot see there, what is there. So what is that seeing power?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's limited.
Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is limited. Under condition you can see. So what is your seeing? Imperfect seeing. If the sun rises, then you can see. That also not correctly. So what is the value of your seeing? You say: "We want to see God." And what is the value of your seeing?
Karandhara: Well, they think they can make machines.
Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect.
Karandhara: They have one machine they have they could see right now . . . infrared telescopes.
Prabhupāda: No, that machine is imperfect. That is also imperfect. That machine is made by imperfect senses, so it is imperfect.
Karandhara: Imperfect, but they think it is becoming more perfect. They're always making it more perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. They are becoming more perfect means they are imperfect. Becoming more perfect means their always position is imperfect. That very word means that, that you are perpetually imperfect. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is better than doing something than doing nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That dog also doing, jumping, always. Yes, we get . . . "Bow! Bow! Bow! Ra-ra-ra-ra-ra!" That kind of . . . active busy-ness. What is called? Active foolishness. They remain foolish, but still, they are active. That means they are simply creating dangerous position. That's all. Jagataḥ ahitāḥ, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā. These demons, their progress means only for the mischief of the world. That's all. That is demonic progress. Kṣayāya jagato . . . for the destruction of the world and for mischievous condition of the world, their progress. Is it not? Kṣayāya jagataḥ ahitāḥ (BG 16.9). Kṣayāya means "For destruction and for mischievous condition." Therefore, despite all advancement of so-called scientific knowledge, the world becoming more and more in dangerous and destructive condition. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . gives the medicine. (break)
Prajāpati: Today, the only time they use the word "God" is when they are swearing and they are calling on God to damn someone else. Why is such language there? Why are they doing like that?
Prabhupāda: No. Why ordinary men? Even those who are going to church, they are also praying God, "God, give us our daily bread." These rascals, they have made God as agent for their sense gratification. This is their philosophy. Even from the priest down to the rogues, they have made God as the agent of their sense gratification. That is materialism, "God must supply whatever I want. That is God. Otherwise, I don't care for God." This is their philosophy.
Prajāpati: But sometimes they might hit their thumb with a hammer or something, and they will start swearing, calling on God's name, but in a very bad way.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name, God's . . . in every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime factor. Our philosophy is that, "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy. Just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering that, "Give us our . . ." The rascal does not know God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not know what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on.
That is the disease, material disease, "I want to satisfy my senses, and anyone who will help me in my sense gratification, I shall worship him. If he does not, then I shall not." Everywhere. This Nixon became president because he promised that, "I shall satisfy your senses." Now he is not doing so, so "Get out." This is the whole formula, material world, "You satisfy my senses, you are my friend. And as soon as stop, then you are not my friend." That's it. (break) . . . so considered the most authoritative because they give sense gratification, "You are sick. Now you are unable to gratify your senses. I give you some medicine so you become strong and go on with your sense gratification." Therefore doctor is very good man.