Ambarīṣa: Yes. People hire lawyers, very expensive lawyers, just to find loopholes in their tax statements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The cheating begins from the government. They are giving some paper and asking people, "Here is ten thousand dollars." This is cheating. "I promise to pay." But when the government is failure, where is the promise? Who pays? This is cheating.
Harikeśa: During the Depression that happened. People lined up for miles. During the Depression in America people lined up for miles outside of the bank, and the bank couldn't give them any money. And even if they had money, it wouldn't buy anything.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Previously the governments all over the world would guarantee that for behind every currency there was certain amount of gold.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So if you went and gave that...
Prabhupāda: Forty percent.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But now it's no more. Now if you go with that currency the government won't give you gold. They've reduced the gold backing behind the currency now. Every day they're reducing because when they want money they just print more notes.
Prabhupāda: And you cannot hold gold also. That is illegal. Somehow or other, even if you secure gold, you cannot keep it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's that restriction in India, I think.
Ambarīṣa: Now in the United States you can buy gold. They made it legal.
Harikeśa: But limited quantity.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul and they are "Awake." Just see these rascals. They have no preliminary knowledge even, and they are writing books, Awake.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a very big press in New York, Jehovah Witness, Brooklyn Bridge.
Harikeśa: They say the world is going to end next year.
Harikeśa: Then they also say if it doesn't end next year, that it's Biblically correct to say that it may end in three years after that.
Prabhupāda: And then again seven years. Then again ten years. They are so awakened. So rascals.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can ask them to sell their press to us because the world is going to end.
Prabhupāda: No, give us free.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a huge press.
Haṁsadūta: We can make a wager with them. If it doesn't end, then they have to surrender their press.
Prabhupāda: How much they are in darkness, and they are making propaganda, "Awake." This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīya... One blind man is awakening other blind men. (break) ...kalākendra.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All of the kendras are supported by businessmen. They would much rather support a kalākendra rather than the temple because they think...
Prabhupāda: Temple is useless now. You see, Nanda has spent so much money in that Kurukṣetra, and not a single temple. You see?
Indian man (1): There is no temple in Kurukṣetra where they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa like we are worshiping. There is no temple.
Harikeśa: The Gauḍīya Math?
Indian man (1): Even they can't worship as we are worshiping.
Prabhupāda: How they can worship? The worship is done by devotee. Unless you create devotee, where is the question of worshiping? Without devotee it is idol worship. There is no life. And without life, how can you pull on artificially? Aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-rañjanam. Which way I shall go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Go to the left or... Left. (break)
Harikeśa: In the back of that Awake magazine there was one little article that said that this one teacher in one college was doing yoga. He locked himself up in his room and went into a yogic trance, and they finally broke into his room two days later and found him in the same position but dead. So then they say that because he was in yogic trance that his heart was going too slow to give sufficient blood to the body, so he died.
Prabhupāda: So by yoga practice he died.
Harikeśa: Yes, that's what they're saying.
Prabhupāda: The result is he's died.
Ambarīṣa: My father, he read that article, and that's what he says to me. He says, "You do yoga and you'll end up like this man."
Prabhupāda: These are government buildings. They are not properly maintained. The roads are not properly maintained. So New Delhi light is diminishing. And the shabby motor buses.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These buses are also so old.
Prabhupāda: Old and creating sound so much.
Tejās: They are losing several crores of rupees every year. One man told me that he rents buses to them, one of the men who came two, three days ago. So, he was telling before, he rents buses to the D.T.C., to the Delhi Transportation Corporation. He rents it to them for a rupee a kilometer and he makes about forty paisa. And even though they are getting it for a rupee a kilometer, they are still losing money on it. He is making profit and they are losing it. Because they sell the spare parts. They're so corrupt.
Prabhupāda: Take away the...
Tejās: Yes, the workers there... There's about sixty percent of their buses only, running. Forty percent are disabled because they are always losing the parts somehow.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, I know, in Delhi, what the people do is... A lot of people, they don't buy the ticket. They give the conductor half the money, and so he lets them go free.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Then where the income? There is no income and there is loss.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not everyone does it, but students and a lot of young people do that.
Tejās: Students coerce them. They stop the buses. If the bus driver doesn't stop, they'll break the windows and then they all get on and they ride free. They were burning many buses.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this year, because of the emergency, everyone is behaving all right. They're scared to do anything.
Prabhupāda: How by emergency you can make people honest?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This house belongs to the (name withheld).
Tejās: This belongs to (name withheld)?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got three, four houses like that, separate, I saw, and whole day-two hours here, two hours there, two hours there.
Tejās: He had seven wives.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Tejās: A house for each wife, I think.
Prabhupāda: Another madman.
Tejās: All his children are avowed atheists.
Prabhupāda: Means children are born by others. He feeds them. That's all. This is going on. (break) It is easily calculated that government will collapse very soon. They have made changes because they cannot manage.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also they try to change their image. They'll always...
Tejās: Every six months they've been changing the ministers.
Prabhupāda: That means mismanagement. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They do this all over the world. They change... Like in America, President Ford just dropped the Defense Secretary just like that. So that created such a big controversy.
Haṁsadūta: I read a very interesting article, and the theme was that once a month, every month at least, one government is now collapsing or being overthrown. That was the theme of the article.
Indian man (1): In U.P. they change the government after every two, three months. Yesterday also they make authorization to rule in U.P. from yesterday. They change the government like that after every few months.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now Dr. Channa Reddy must have become busy because when the presidents rule then the governor has to do some work. Otherwise in India the governors, they do no work.
Indian man (1): He takes instruction from president.
Haṁsadūta: In America in the upcoming elections in 1976, one of the biggest candidates is a movie actor, Ronald Reagan. Yes.
Prabhupāda: For presidentship?
Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)
Tejās: ...tax division, the clerks will come to the various businessmen after they make their first application, and they will tell them... First they will come to them. And immediately a businessman knows, so he gives him 500,000 rupees. And he will say, "Oh, thank you very much. I just came to see you. I wanted to tell you that if you say like this, you will save ten thousand, twenty thousand rupees. But don't say when you are there that I told you." (end)