Prabhupāda: So this United Nation is a failure, and it will be failure because there is no God consciousness.
Bob Bourne: I don't think it's necessary that it fails.
Bob Bourne: I don't think it's necessary that it fails. I don't... I think things are changing, definitely, throughout the world. It's a matter of which course they take.
Prabhupāda: No, what changing? They are preparing for war again. Where is changing? A slight provocation, there may be war.
Raymond Lopez: Yes, but people are changing now. You're getting the young people who for the first time in years are becoming aware and are getting interested in things outside their own town, their own individual state or whatever it is they have. You have people, the young people now are getting interested in things like poverty. They're interested in Bangladesh and so on. This is good. But you nonetheless have a very large proportion of people who have got that idea of "I'm all right, and I'll look after mine," without taking the overall picture into account. And I think that so long as you have different concepts, different beliefs, it's going to be very hard to get to what you're talking about.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be united first. That... First thing is that everyone should be convinced or understand clearly that everything belongs to God. But they have no conception of God even. That is... The whole human society at the present moment, majority, they are godless, especially the Communist. They don't acknowledge. The scientist, the philosopher, the scholars—all godless. Scientists' special business is how to defy God. They say, "Science is everything. We can do everything by science. There is no need of God." Huh?
Wally Strobes: I don't think so any more. They're a lot more enlightened.
Prabhupāda: Not any more?
Wally Strobes: Well, in some circles, yes, I think.
Prabhupāda: That was never any more, but if they are realizing that, that is very good.
Raymond Lopez: But you can't say that scientists are working in a way that is opposite to God's will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. They say. Oh, yes. I have met many scientists. They say that "We shall solve everything by scientific advancement. We have done already." They say like that.
Raymond Lopez: But just because they...
Prabhupāda: Just like there is a big theory, chemical theory. One big scientist... Big or small, whatever he may be, he has got a Nobel Prize.
Raymond Lopez: He's medium sized. (laughing)
Raymond Lopez: He's medium sized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals, by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student, he is my disciple, he challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemical. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.
Raymond Lopez: They're trying. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister" or "advocate." That you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31): "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?
Bob Bourne: Beethoven was deaf.
Bob Bourne: Beethoven was deaf.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Madhudviṣa: Beethoven, the great composer, he was deaf.
Bob Bourne: At least, for part of his life.
Raymond Lopez: But can't you have people doing good for the sake of goodness?
Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is good.
Raymond Lopez: But there are certain people...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say blind. He does not know what is good. Real goodness is to understand God. That is real goodness.
Raymond Lopez: But there are certain things that you don't..., that are good, that you can accept as being good just by themselves. Now, if you see an old lady who gets run over by a car, you go and help her. Now there are certain things that are good by themselves, I think, and that people will react and do the good thing, even though they mightn't have any concept of God.
Prabhupāda: No. Unless you have got the real platform, how you can do good? Just like our Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was obliged to you. They have done some good in legal affairs. But unless you are a lawyer, legal man, how can you do it? You have a mind to do good, but if you are not a lawyer, how could you do?
Wally Strobes: But there would be a lot of lawyers to do...
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I am talking of yourself. If one does not know what is good, then how he will do good? The first business is that he must know what is good. Then he can do something good. Otherwise, what is the use of jumping like monkey? He must know. Because you are a lawyer you know how to deal with law; you can do good. But a layman who is not a lawyer, how he can do good? So therefore, anyone who is posing himself as leader to do good to the society, he must know first of all what is good.