The real enjoyer and sufferer is the soul, not this body. When the soul is out of this body, the body is no more enjoyer or sufferer; it is a lump of matter. The sense of enjoyment and suffering is there so long the soul is there. Therefore the soul is important. And if you can study the soul, then you can understand what is God.
Peter: How you know there's a soul?
Prabhupāda: Because you are speaking. Because you are inquiring, I know the soul. Because you are soul, therefore you are inquiring. As soon as the soul is out of your body, you cannot inquire anymore. Inquiry finished.
Dr. Wolfe: Can one say that soul and life are identical?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Identical . . . life is the symptom of the soul. Because the soul is there, therefore life is there. And as soon the soul is not there, there is no more life. There is sun in the sky, and the light is there, sunshine. When the sun is set, there is no more light; it is dark.
Dr. Orr: Is the body, then, to be resisted? Is the body to be disciplined, to be resisted, to be ignored? Is that what you're suggesting?
Prabhupāda: Ignored?
Bahulāśva: How to treat the body?
Dr. Orr: How do you treat the body?
Prabhupāda: Make the best use of a bad bargain. (laughter) It is a bad bargain. But we have to utilize it.
Dr. Orr: When you say, then, that everything is a part of God, you make an exception of the body—the body is not divine.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: No, he's saying that when we say everything is part of God the body is an exception. He says the body that isn't exception of God. The body is not part of God? Body is also a part?
Prabhupāda: No, why? Body is also part. Yes, that I have explained.
Dr. Judah: Māyā-śakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is another energy.
Dr. Orr: Oh, I see.
Dr. Judah: Inferior energy of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Orr: Inferior energy.
Prabhupāda: Everything is God's energy, so body is also God's energy. So best use of the body is God's energy should be utilized for God.
Dr. Orr: Hmm. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . is not knowledge. If the tenant thinks that, "This apartment is mine. I am owner," then he is wrong. If he knows perfectly well that it belongs to the landlord, "I have given for use," then it is knowledge . . . (indistinct)
Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner, (laughter) when he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā: mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away: "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. The same example: the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything. Finished." That one has to believe. "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say: "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, wouldn't it be better to say he is blind, he is stupid?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the same thing. Mad is the sum total of all stupidity. (laughter) When I say mad, it is the sum total of all kinds of stupidity. (aside) Now you can give them prasādam. I think we have occupied their time.
(Video end)
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when would you like to speak to Dr. Judah about the college?
Prabhupāda: Whenever he finds convenient. I am always ready.
Dr. Judah: About the college?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Judah: Well, I understand you are interested in founding a college, and er . . .
Prabhupāda: Everyone should be interested.
Dr. Judah: Yes. (laughs) And I've been trying to get the particulars up in Berkeley concerning certain possibilities and, of course, I wrote to the . . .
Prabhupāda: No, it is possibility. Just like you have got this religious section, similarly, we can have Vedic theological section. That's all. It is a section department.
Dr. Judah: Will this be . . . the idea of the college that you have in mind, is this going to be an all-around college, in other words, teaching not only, you might say, Vaiṣṇavism, but also English and the other subjects?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Judah: In other words, a liberal arts college with a religious section in it.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like your association is graduate. So you accept graduates to the Union?
Dr. Judah: Well, will this be . . .
Prabhupāda: Just like law college. Law college, one joins after graduation.
Dr. Judah: Right. There are two types of college programs. One is what we call the undergraduate program, which is generally a four-year program leading to a Bachelor's degree, and then there is the graduate program, which one finds, particularly here in the United States, in the . . . if one is interested in religion, in the seminaries, which are . . .
Prabhupāda: If you have time some other time, we have to go over the particulars. So whenever you like. Day after tomorrow I am going?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Dr. Judah: I'll be here tomorrow, and tomorrow afternoon I have to go back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So in the morning?
Dr. Judah: Yes, fine.
Prabhupāda: So we can talk in details.
Bahulāśva: We showed Dr. Judah the press and all the books, how they were published. He was very impressed.
Dr. Judah: Yes. You seem to . . . you have, it would seem, the very latest knowledge of technology. They're doing these things by means of computers, you know, and all of their . . . the very highest technology—in fact, technology that I haven't seen in many publishing companies, and now I have looked at a lot of publishing companies. And this is the most advanced technology I have ever seen in publishing. (laughter) It's amazing really.