Prabhupāda: For children—kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome, we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Yes. On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there are green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? (break) . . . population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tubes, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.
Madhudviṣa: They have run one survey . . .
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Madhudviṣa: . . . and they have found out that the people of Australia spend so much money on feeding their pets that two hundred thousand people per year could be fed with the money that is used to feed the pets.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Paramahaṁsa: Population of Australia?
Madhudviṣa: Two hundred thousand people a year.
Prabhupāda: If they spend money for the poor country . . . they'll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea, a tree. So, by nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers.
Madhudviṣa: No. Kali-yuga trees. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . are available here? No.
Madhudviṣa: Popper?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Indian store here? No.
Devotee: Indian import store?
Madhudviṣa: Yes. Indian import store they have here. We have poppers. (break)
Prabhupāda: Take the ḍāl, urad ḍāl, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masālā and then make like cāpāṭi. And when it is dry it is pāpad. It is not difficult. Add little soda bicarb.
Madhudviṣa: Make it stiff.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Powdered ḍāl, then I can show you how to do it.
Madhudviṣa: Powdered ḍāl. We can put the ḍāl in a grinder . . .
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Madhudviṣa: . . . and grind it up.
Prabhupāda: Now it is not done. The widows, because widows, there is no widow marriage. So widows, they earn their livelihood by making pāpad and guri (powdered rice). They prepare at home guri, pāpad, and sell and make their livelihood. (break)
Madhudviṣa: You have said that you have nullified the law of gravity, but how can we explain that everything is falling down?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the green leaves not falling down—the dry leaves falling down, under certain condition. So it is not the law of gravitation. Why the green leaves does not fall down? Only the rejected things are falling. The rejected, you also throw away, so nature is throwing away. Where is the question of gravity?
Madhudviṣa: But when they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have . . .
Prabhupāda: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down.
Madhudviṣa: That's why when they go into outer space they become weightless; they can float without any airplane.
Prabhupāda: That, what they're doing . . . (indistinct) . . . but we see that if you can make adjustment of the air, just like we see the heavy cloud bearing many million tons of water, they do not fall down; they float. Where is the law of gravity?
Paramahaṁsa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. You also give that example of those big birds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big birds, they carry elephant and throw . . . (indistinct)
Madhudviṣa: We have not seen such a bird. (devotees laugh)
Prabhupāda: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that's all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that's all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there. Why you are not seeing?
Madhudviṣa: My eyes are not good enough.
Prabhupāda: Therefore if you have got imperfect eyes, what you can see? First of all you admit that you have got imperfect eyes. Then what you can see with your imperfect eyes? If you are a blind man, what is the use of telling, "I do not see"? You are blind man, what you can see? First of all you admit that you are blind man, then talk of seeing. Therefore Vedic literature . . . Śāstra-cakṣusā. You should see through śāstra, not your these blind eyes. Śāstra says, "There is Kṛṣṇa, He is doing like that, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛk . . ." You should see like that. What you see with your eyes? Why you are so proud of your eyes? Blind eyes. That is submission. Do you see who is your father? Why do you accept by the recommendation of the mother that "He is your father." Do you see who is your father? Then what is the use of telling, "I want to see"? What you can see? You have to take the authority of the mother. Mother says, "Here is your father," that's all. You cannot say, "I have not seen that he is my father." Can you say? So there is no value of this statement, "I do not see" or "We cannot see."
Madhudviṣa: In other books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it says things, and then in time you can see them, you can substantiate them. But some of the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam are so fantastic that people . . . I mean, it's very difficult for people to even. . .
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence . . . Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version. That is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says. That's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi (Brs. 1.2.101). Purāṇādi itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means "by right person." Thinking that "It may be like this," anumāna. That is called anumāna.