Dr. Patel: No, no, the Jains have, I mean, pushed the vegetarians to a very, I mean, to an extent which is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the benefit? The benefit? The goats are vegetarian. Eh? There are so many animals. They are vegetarian. The monkeys are vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: They are perfect vegetarian. Perfect.
Prabhupāda: And they live in the forest.
Dr. Patel: They are sannyāsīs. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: But number-one rogue. Each of them keeping one dozen women, at least, and no discrimination between wife or daughter. No discrimination. Just like hogs. That's all. No discrimination.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Cows are also vegetarians.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatī-nandana: Cows, they are also vegetarians.
Prabhupāda: Cows are vegetarian. That's all right. There are many animals, vegetarian. So there is no perfection of life unless we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply by becoming vegetarian, simply by becoming nonviolent, simply by... These are all theories only. It has no value.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is sometimes put forward that not everyone will be able to embrace Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully. Therefore it may be better for them to accept some portion, like, for example, taking up vegetarianism or even doing haṭha-yoga, or something like this is better than nothing.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not very essential. Essential is how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He doesn't say that you become vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: That said, tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara: "You must do everything for Him, even eating."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is vegetarianism.
Prabhupāda: Then, then you are... Then automatically he'll become vegetarian. Automatically he'll become vegetarian. If he takes Kṛṣṇa prasādam, then he is vegetarian automatically.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it may seem like these other things are stepping-stones to Kṛṣṇa, but is it necessarily so?
Prabhupāda: No stepping-stone. This is the ultimate, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), these four things. Unless you come to this point, there is no question of perfection.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Then you feel that every action of yours is done for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Not feel, but actually it's an order.
Dr. Patel: Actually doing it.
Prabhupāda: Arjuna did not feel; he took order to kill. Not that you manufacture your idea. No. That is not. You take order directly and then do it; otherwise you'll be responsible.