Prabhupāda: England. So everything Indian required, they would supply, and they would govern and they would exploit. Therefore they became so rich—simply by exploiting India. And Indian soldiers, they expanded empire—Africa, Burma. That's all, all Indian exploitation. Indian men, money and exploitation. As soon as they lost India, they lost whole empire.
Cyavana: Now they are also suffering.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That . . . that must be. They will be suffering more and more. They will be beggars. They have done so much sinful activities for expanding their empire. Now they will have to become beggars. And within two hundred years, everything finished. They started their exploitation from seventeenth, eighteenth century. And in the twentieth century, everything finished. The French people and the English people . . . this is also one of the example. Both the nations came here to exploit. That was the competition in . . . the French people and the English people, they would go for colonization, fight, and establi . . . America was also that; Canada, everywhere. But because they were their own men, they were given dominion status—almost free.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Greedy. Very greedy.
Brahmānanda: At one time all of Africa was controlled by the European nations. Completely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mainly these French and . . .
Brahmānanda: French, British, Germans, Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa, the British also tried to take over South Africa. There was a war called the Boer War.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So during World War I and World War II many of the South Africans, they actually sided with the Germans because they were against the English so much.
Prabhupāda: African means black Africans. No?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. South Africans, they were Europeans. The British started the first concentration camp. They took these "Afrikaners" as they call them, Europeans. They put them on an island called St. Helena. That was actually the first concentration camp, by the British.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Still, even the opposite party, they are not disgusted—"This material life is not very peaceful." They are not disgusted.
Brahmānanda: Now they are thinking, "We'll be independent . . ."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That . . . they are trying to be independent. And India . . . just like India has got independent, and now the position is "emergency." They do not think in this way, that "Independence or dependence, we are actually dependent under the laws of nature." That they do not think. They are thinking . . . the same example as I gave, that "This boil is here. Why not here? It is very painful," like that. They have no sense that so-called dependence or independence, he has to suffer. That he does not know. Mūḍha nābhijānāti.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains, vāsudeva sarvam iti (BG 7.19), that He is everything and that He is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this verse, mūḍho 'ya nābhijānāti, that the mūḍhas, they can't perceive Kṛṣṇa. So actually it's simply that we're covered, isn't it? But Kṛṣṇa is always there.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always there, but yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ: he does not know Kṛṣṇa on account of being covered by the curtain of yogamāyā. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). But we can make them all happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they follow our instruction, even in this material world. Pūrṇaṁ sukhāyate. Full happiness we can give if they follow our principle.
Cyavana: But they have so many doubts.
Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt that, "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty.
They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left. Rāyarāma left: "Oh, Swāmījī is denying the preliminary necessities of life." This is the preliminary necessities of life: illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. They cannot think that a man can live without these things. Therefore people are wonderful, that "How he is turning these Europeans, Americans to this standard?" That is their wonder. Nobody can think of, that these things can be given up and one can avoid it. It is dream.
Your government, American government, is also surprised, that "We have spent so much money for stopping this LSD, and this man, by saying his disciples, they are giving up." Judah has also mentioned that. That is their surprise—"How these things can be given up? It is impossible."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once said in Geneva that no one has died by giving up smoking.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that is the fact. You have given up these four bad things, and what is your wrong, harm? Rather, you have become bright-faced. But they will not give it up. They think, "It is impossible."