Young man: (break) ...from the modes of ignorance to the modes of passion to the modes of goodness is a very gradual process?
Prabhupāda: Why gradual? You can immediately transcend all the processes by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious immediately.
- māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi
- bhakti yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, the Lord says, "Anyone who is engaged in unalloyed devotional service unto Me, so he is transcendental." Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. Guṇān means these modes, different modes—modes of ignorance, modes of passion, modes of goodness. Goodness is also material. That is not spiritual. If you become very good moralist or very religious, following all the rules and regulations, that is good but that is not spiritual. The spiritual is far above. So one... We have to transcend the position of worldly goodness. Somebody asked me this question, "Swamijī, if a person is moral and dutiful and benevolent, all the good qualifications, so what is the use of worshiping God?" My reply was that anyone who is not God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot be good, cannot be moral. It is not possible. Harāv abhakta... I am not manufacturing this. This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhagavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). So take for example that, our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he was considered to be a very good man... (break) They may be good, but they are not ultimate good. The ultimate good is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is good for you and good for all. Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is good in this sense, because he is in transcendental position, and whatever he speaks, because he speaks about God, therefore speaking is not adulterated. So this position, as soon as you take it a principle of your life, that "I shall simply be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, or God's service. I shall talk about Kṛṣṇa, I shall work for Kṛṣṇa, I shall write for Kṛṣṇa, I shall read for Kṛṣṇa. Everything for Kṛṣṇa," that is the transcendental position beyond goodness, better than goodness. So one can be situated in this position immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. It is not very difficult. Yes, what is your...?
Young woman: All right. You answered my question. Thank you very much for answering my question. You said... I asked you what goodness was, Swamijī, and you said goodness was knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young woman: Now could you explain what you meant by knowledge? What? Spiritual knowledge or...?
Prabhupāda: No. First of all what is knowledge?
Young woman: Knowledge is material.
Prabhupāda: Knowledge means that you must know what you are. This is knowledge. If you don't know what you are, then what is the meaning of your knowledge? So real knowledge means that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not matter, I am a spirit soul." That is real knowledge. On the basis of this real knowledge, whatever is done, that is done in knowledge; otherwise it is done in ignorance. That is the difference. Knowledge and difference. Knowledge is not that you have to get degrees from the university, big, big degrees. No. Real knowledge is that "I am," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul." If one has realized this one word only, then he is in knowledge. He's in knowledge. One who has not realized this thing, he's in ignorance. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who has accepted this body, which is made of three elements, sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and therefore accepted the bodily productions as his own or the place or the land where this body is produced is worshipable... There are so many other things. Naturally, at the present moment, knowledge means that "This is my country." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Chinese." Why? "Because my body is produced from this land." So this is ignorance. Your body... Why your body? The cow's body is also produced from this land. Why do you kill? It has got also right. But because he has no knowledge actually, therefore he is trying to protect his body, but he's not protecting the other's body produced from the land. This is want of knowledge. If he has real knowledge that "I am Brahman, I am spirit," then he can see, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Oh, the spirit. The cow is also spirit soul, the dog is also spirit soul, I am also spirit soul. Otherwise how I am moving?" The cow is moving, the dog is moving.