Jaya-gopāla: So many people who stop performing prescribed duty to engage in so-called meditation, actually they are committing sinful activity? Is this actually sinful activity to attempt such meditation like that?
Prabhupāda: Meditation? That you can see from the result. You'll find so many persons meditating, but see their life. Phalena paricīyate. One has to be judged by the result. You have worked very hard and supposed to be very rich man, but if I see that you have no nice apartment, neither any car, neither any opulence, so what kind of businessman you have earned? That can be understood immediately. So if one by practice of meditation is actually advancing in spiritual life, why he's materially affected? What is the difference between a person materially affected and spiritually advanced?
Take for example our students. We may not be very much highly advanced. Admitting that, but at least if any gentleman comes, if he's sincere, he'll appreciate how pure they are. At least they are practiced. You see? So by the result, one has to see. But we have seen so many meditators, they cannot change even their daily nonsense habits. So what result they have obtained, they have achieved? I cannot understand? By the result one has to take account. Not by simply jugglery of words.
Just like there is examination. One student says, "Oh, I have studied so much." But when the examination was taken, he failed. So what does it mean that he studied? That means he did not study, that's all. The test is that spiritual advancement means minimizing material activities. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Automatically they will be detestful for material engagement. Spiritual advancement means that.
Just like a hungry man, if you give him to eat, as soon as he begins to eat, immediately he'll feel satisfaction, and when he is fully fed, he'll say, "No, I don't want any more." So similarly, spiritual advancement means proportionately one should be detestful to material engagement. That is the test.
So if anyone is advancing by meditation or bhakti-yoga or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one has to give evidence that he is now being proportionately detached from this material engagement. That is the test. This is not for only the meditators. It is for you also. How far you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you test yourself—how far you have become detached from material consciousness. That's all. The proportionately you have advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the proportionately you'll not like material engagement. If you have advanced cent percent, then cent percent you become detached. That is the way.
So everyone has to test himself, "how far I have advanced." That means "How far I have become detached with material contamination." That's all. The test is in your hand. And if you are sincere, then you should test yourself. And if you want to make show, that is a different thing. That is explained in the Second Chapter, sthita-prajña. The behavior of a person who has advanced in spiritual consciousness, that is explained. You have studied. He talks like that, he walks like that, he behaves like that. So many things, they have been explained. These are the tests. So we may not be able to achieve all the success immediately, but everyone should try to follow.
The meditation process is also one process. That is also one of the processes. That is good. But we simply say that this process is not, I mean to say, very fruitful in this age. In this age, this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is the most beneficial process.
That is our program. We don't deprecate the meditational process. That is a process, standard process. But we don't say... We have not manufactured. It is the śāstra says. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum (SB 12.3.52). Meditation of Viṣṇu was possible in the Satya-yuga when people used to live for one hundred thousands of years. Just like Vālmīki Muni, he meditated for sixty thousands of years. He got perfection. Here it is very difficult even to meditate for sixty minutes at a time. You see? Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. That process was recommended in the Satya-yuga.
And the next process is tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. The next stage, by performing great sacrifices. That is very costly affair. Nobody has money. Suppose if I prescribe performance of some sacrifice, and if I order that "You have to secure one hundred tons of butter or ghee," can you secure? Oh... You see? So therefore that is not possible. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ dvāpare paricaryāyām (SB 12.3.52).
Temple worship is also not possible. Temple worship, you go in India, there are some temples still. Daily, they are spending thousands of dollars for temple worship. Daily. The process... In Jagannātha temple, fifty-six times offered prasāda, and any time you go they will supply you prasāda for one thousand persons. It is all ready. Still. Although India is being advertised there is no food, but if you go to Jagannātha temple, any time, and ask the manager that "We have come, one thousand devotees. Please supply us prasāda." "Yes, ready." (laughter) So that is being done. The arrangement is there since last two thousand years. The Jagannātha has property, there is production, there is good management. That is going on. Similarly, there is another temple, Nathadwar. They're also spending thousands of... In Madras also, there are many temples. There is a big estate. They are also collecting money daily, $4,000, $5,000. Yes. Still. The temple arrangement is there.
So that process is not to be introduced newly. It is not possible. Therefore Bhāgavata says, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ, dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau, kalau means in this age, tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Simply by chanting, you get the result of sacrifice, you get the result of meditation, you get the result of temple worship. Here we are, of course, attempting to worship Jagannātha with our teeny efforts, but if you go to the real Jagannātha temple in Purī, you'll see fifty-six times.
When Lord Caitanya was invited by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, so he gave Him so much rice and vegetables and all these things. So He thought "It is offered to Jagannātha." So He asked Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, "All right, give Me little prasāda. From this I shall eat." So Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said, "No, You eat the whole thing." "Oh, how it is possible?" Then he gave the example, "Sir, You don't say like that. I know You are taking in the temple fifty-six times like this and this is only a morsel of food for You." You see? (laughter)
So actually, if you offer kṛṣṇa-prasāda, fulfilling the whole hall, as many times, fifty-six times... Fifty-six times means you have got only twenty-four hours. How many times in an hour? Without sleeping, without doing anything. Kṛṣṇa will accept. Kṛṣṇa will accept. And I want it. You American people, you have got so much money, you engage your money in that way. Don't spoil your life by this way and that way. So you can do that. You have got enough, sufficient means to offer Kṛṣṇa fifty-six times. You see? Just see the result. That is utilization. That is karma-yoga. One has the capacity to earn like anything and to spend for Kṛṣṇa like anything. That is karma-yoga.
It is not inertia. "I have got... Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, I shall go and sit down, eat at the expense of others and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." No. This is karma-yoga. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācāḥ. You have to employ your life, your money, your words, and your intelligence, all for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you have got enough money, spend it for Kṛṣṇa. Don't stock it. The more you spend, more you become balanceless for spending Kṛṣṇa, then more you are benefited. This is the process.
That will be taught in the karma-yoga section. And how one can, unless one is spiritually advanced how he can sacrifice his hard-earned money for Kṛṣṇa? Everyone thinks, "Oh, I have earned this money working so hard. Why shall I spend it for Kṛṣṇa? Let me keep it. I shall do it for my sense gratification." This is, this kind of advancement is no value. You see. How one has learned to sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa.
Just like Arjuna. He sacrificed his whole family for Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning he hesitated, "How can I kill my family members, this fight?" And when he became Kṛṣṇa conscious, "Never mind, I shall kill all of them." This is called sacrifice. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. He sacrificed all sentiments, all connection, everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is called sannyāsa, real sannyāsa. Although he was a warrior, a fighter, a householder having more than dozen wives, but he was sannyāsa. Because he sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.
So everyone can test how far he has advanced simply by this, "How far I have become prepared to sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa?" He doesn't require to take certificate from others. He can test himself, "How far I am prepared?" Then it is all right. This is the standard. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances)