Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Lido is the leading nightclub in Paris.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Is it?
Devotee: No, no, I have not been there. I don't know. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, no. You know such clubs are there.
Devotee: I know the clubs are there. I used to go.
Prabhupāda: That's said. And that is much. These rascals are chewing the chewed. One thing one has chewed, and throwing it, and again another person trying to chew it—if there is any mellow, if there is any sweetness. This is going on. Just like our Indian leaders, they are going to chewing the chewed. They are seeing the effect of material civilization in the Western countries, and they are going to imitate it, thinking that they will be happy with that. They are giving up their own culture, and they are going to accept another culture which is already failed.(?) Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).
- matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
- mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
- adānta gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
- punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
- (SB 7.5.30)
Adānta gobhir. Real disease is adānta go, uncontrolled senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram, entering into the darkest region of material existence. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām, chewing the chewed, again and again, the same sense gratification—sometimes as a human being, sometimes as a hog, sometimes as a dog, sometimes as a demigod. But the business is the same: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. Either at home or in the club or in the. . .
Brahmānanda: Why is India not satisfied with its own culture? If the Westerners are now going after the spiritual culture. . .
Prabhupāda: Because your forefathers came from England and taught them like this. That is the real fact. India was satisfied, but the Lord Macaulay, they said no, that if you keep Indian as Indian, you'll never be able to rule over them. Cultural conqueror. So they began to teach Indians England's work in India. "Whatever you have got, that is all nonsense. You learn from us." And the first product is Jawaharlal Nehru. This is the misfortune of foreign rule.
Yaśodānandana: It would seem then that English culture is stronger than Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yaśodānandana: It seems that the English culture has conquered over the Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: No, Indian culture is still going on. It is not lost. Otherwise how it is going to your country and bringing you? (laughter)
Ravīndra-svarūpa: A person might argue that the Indians weren't satisfied either; otherwise they wouldn't have taken up the English culture. So what's the difference?
Prabhupāda: No. When you are standing on two boats you'll never be satisfied. It is very dangerous position, you know? Two boats on the river, and if you put one leg here, one leg here, it is always troublesome. Either you give up this or give up that. Then your position will be safe. But India's position is like that. Two boats he is standing, and he is troubled.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English taught devotional service to England. The English were teaching devotional service to England.
Prabhupāda: When?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because the Indian people, they have such a feeling for bhakti and service. Everywhere in the world we go. . .
Prabhupāda: But the Englishmen never took that line, and when. . .
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach God consciousness?
Prabhupāda: . . .when our Godbrothers Tirtha Mahārāja and Bon Mahārāja was sent, Lady Willingdon, (s)he derided them that "You Indian people, you come here. . ." (break)
Rāmeśvara: . . .Western civilization is very good for the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they cannot teach their own children. They are becoming hippies. That is the effect of their education.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Phalena paricīyate. You have to judge by the fruit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician, heal thyself." (greets someone) Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of. . . That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say "our," "your"? We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change, and they become vanished, Europeans. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.