Preaching (Conversations 1977 Jan - Feb)

Expressions researched:
"preach" |"preached" |"preaches" |"preaching" |"preachings"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Yogi Amrit Desai: That's the real meaning.

Prabhupāda: Swami means who is the controller of the senses.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Master of the senses.

Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of swami, he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as swami. These swamis go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.

Yogi Amrit Desai: They have vairāgya to his senses, of the senses.

Prabhupāda: A sannyāsī... A sannyāsī means he has ceased all material desire. There is no material desire. And the concentrated material enjoyment is sex. So if one could not control his sex life, then how he is swami? He's cheater.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Closed? Maybe. What...?

Trivikrama: Because we are thinking of shifting to Hong Kong because our program mainly is in offices, you know. We go in office, and we dress with a suit and tie. So they're thinking that we're businessmen coming to buy something from them. So they treat us very nicely, "Oh, sit down. How do you do, Mr. Brown?" offer some tea or something. Then we immediately open up briefcase and present one of your Bhagavad-gītās. Then we preach a little bit. We tell them that "We've come here. This is the first time in Chinese language, a very wonderful book. So many men have recommended." And then they appreciate a little bit. Then we say, "If you could help some little donation," and they give us. But these are mostly high-class men in offices, you know. So now we're kind of depleted, because ordinary men don't speak English. So we're going to Hong Kong, but there's no temple there. We'll have to live in hotels.

Prabhupāda: And where is that boy gone that was in Hong Kong?

Trivikrama: He went to New York.

Prabhupāda: He is a Chinese man.

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get you some.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He mentioned that, that "My Kṛṣṇa is different imagination. My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." That is his position. He imagines. He has... (Hindi) "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa..." This is... How he can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is preaching violence, and he's trying to draw nonviolence. The people will challenge, but he makes his own commentation, his own imagination. He said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." This is his word. And actually... He is the student of Bhagavad-gītā and in his āśrama there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. He does not believe in Kṛṣṇa. But believe or not believe, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā, had respect. That will give him some profit, there is no doubt. (break) Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Everything is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. I speak, therefore, to my disciples that "You simply repeat like parrot Bhagavad-gītā and follow by your life. Don't try to become very big scholar, do interpretation. Remain foolish and believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect." And actually that is happening. They never tried to eschew and... What is called, the English word? Draw out some meaning. Eschew or something?

Jagadīśa: Eschew is the right word.

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody says that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." That is their fault.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You can bring the car down at ten o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Nobody says, "Here is God." That is, perhaps... We Vaiṣṇavas say; I am preaching. Perhaps I am the first preacher to the world, that "Here is God."

Dr. Patel: Some of these great Vaiṣṇava ācāryas were doing interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: The who is ācārya except the Vaiṣṇava ācārya? All loafer class. All loafer class. They're not ācāryas. Except these Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, who is ācārya? They're not ācāryas. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27).

Dr. Patel: I read your Bhagavad-gītā, and after that, I read Rāmānuja's. They more or less the same...

Prabhupāda: Same thing. There is no difference between the ācāryas. Then how he becomes ācārya if there is difference of opinion? They cannot be ācārya. (end)

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: That is the truth, eternal truth. What you have said...

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: No, no, no. The man who would say it is a fault, either he is mad or it would be mistake.

Prabhupāda: In this old age-eighty-one years I am—I am working day and night just to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and...

CID Chief: This is absolutely a service to God and humanity. Whatever tendency you have... Whatever comes out of your mouth, word, becomes a religious... It is written, out of which you write books. Out of the produce... From the proceeds of that book, you constructed a... It is wholeheartedly towards the God. Whole life is devoted to God.

Prabhupāda: And for these books, as author, if I would have taken royalty, my daily income would have been one lakh, fifty thousand. I don't take a single farthing. Whatever two cāpāṭis they give, that's all.

CID Chief: Then if that had been the objective, so much of this (indistinct) not would have come in reality.

Prabhupāda: I have no appetite also. (laughs) I do not eat too much. Whatever, one or two cāpāṭis, they give, I take. That's all. This is my royalty.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this is from Philadelphia, Judge Alfred Longo, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia decree was typical and included the following points: "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is recognized as an authentic religion. To broadcast the glories of God to all people, members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society can perform saṅkīrtana, a missionary activity including chanting, dancing, and playing cymbals and drums, the dissemination of the word of God through preaching and reading aloud from religious literature, the distribution of religious literature, sanctified food and flowers to the public, and the solicitation and acceptance of contribution. In performing saṅkīrtana devotees can go wherever people gather: streets, libraries and other public places." So we also had decisions... Eventually we win almost all cases.

Prabhupāda: And we have got good support from the scholarly section by big, big professors. Even one priest, Mr. Cox, he is forming an association to support this movement in Harvard University. So we have got supporters also.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Thank you. You come whenever you find time.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He comes regularly.

CID Chief: I was longing to come, so today I came. It's my great fortune that...

Prabhupāda: No... That. Even as CID officer, you can note. This is my business. I am working hard, producing these books, selling, and the telegram you see, and bringing that money here. So if you thing that I am still faulty, then what can I do?

CID Chief: From the beginning I have made it clear that I come here to get some mental peace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Actually Trivikrama Swami has just come. He's been preaching in Taiwan. (breaks) (end)

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, not misunderstood. He made himself misunderstood.

Dr. Patel: But they all misunderstand the real purport of his...

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādam asac... He has to preach this Māyāvāda. He has to present himself in that way. Otherwise he is Vaiṣṇava. Māyāvādam asac-chāstraṁ pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate.

Dr. Patel: Pracchannam Buddha, Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mayaiva vihitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. (break)

Dr. Patel: The most important group in all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava-bhakti-sat-saṅga anyathā yānti vido apy adhaḥ.(?) Even well-versed man will come down if he does not understand. All the branches of Vaiṣṇavism, they give the same comment.

Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Without sat-saṅga, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not for the common man. Common man has to learn under the discipline of guru. You cannot expect all these things from a common man. When you actually control all these things then you are not common man. You are representative of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can preach Kṛṣṇa's philosophy.

Dr. Patel: There is one śloka, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... (BG 18.66). This is pāpa-kāma, krodha and lobha. He will relieve you from that pāpa if you completely surrender.

Prabhupāda: Pāpa, everything... In the material world, whatever you do, that is pāpa. In the material world, "This is pāpa, this is puṇya"—this is mental concoction. Everything is pāpa. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna. In the world of duality, material world, we have manufactured something—"This is good; this is bad. This is moral, this is immoral"—but Caitanya-caritāmṛta author said, "These are all mental concoction. Everything is the same, material." Material means bad. But we have made some convention—"This is good; this is bad; this is..."

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Trivikrama: "No tea?"

Prabhupāda: No tea, no cigarette. That is their disease. No tea, no... Don't stop prasādam. Never. Increase. I shall beg and supply you money. Don't worry. But don't waste it. Simply you take money and utilize it for preaching. My only anxiety is that don't be extravagant. Otherwise you take money and spend it.

Mahāṁsa: Don't be extravagant.

Prabhupāda: You should always know that hard-earned money is... By working at night I am producing book, and they're working there hard, selling the books, and money is coming in that way. So either he or me, mine or yours, it is hard-earned money. It is not easily coming. And therefore we should be cautious. But there is no question of curtailing. There is no question.

Mahāṁsa: Now we are in the process of making a brochure so that we can present to trusts and foundations for bigger donations for the farm project.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. They have amassed money. Let them spend for this village organization. This is real Gandhi's program. He wanted this village organization. But because they manufactured their own way, it was not successful. But if we follow this principle, it will be successful, without any doubt. These big, big āśrama... Gandhi's āśrama is vacant. No. They are getting money, but they have no such program.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the rākṣasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the rākṣasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time. I have seen in America the old man of family, one dog, one television, simply wasting time. And 50 cents for eat.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian lady (5): Educated does not take away your real culture. So you may be educated, but...

Prabhupāda: This is real culture, Bhagavad-gītā. I'm preaching that, Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Indian lady (5): When Swamiji says, "The Supreme Personality says," where is the doubt and where is the questioning also?

Prabhupāda: I represent as it is, and it is being accepted. (Indians talking at once)

Guest (1): Swamiji, what is the way out now? We have understood the present position, and you have also realized. You have seen the... And I don't want to take... I know that this ten-minutes' talk will not bring any satisfaction on either side. Now that has put me into a new thinking, that she's presently more worried about...

Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried. You must be worried. That is material world. So so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time. Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Indian (1): That is by ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Now we are preaching the Kṛṣṇa's words only, and we have become successful all over the world.

Indian (1): Yes, all over the world.

Prabhupāda: And they go, the so-called yogis, swamis go. They, it enters into this ear, goes out this ear. That's all. No effect. "Bag bhak."(?) (Hindi) ...effective. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord."

Indian (1): It's a wonderful thing.

Prabhupāda: "And you just surrender unto Him." And anyone who is doing, he's getting the perfect wisdom.

Indian (1): Hundreds and thousands people are listening to the message of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: We are selling these books, daily five to six lakhs, daily. What is the message? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That's all. In one week, how many books you have sold?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In Bhagavad-gītā there is no such statement that you take care of the eyes of the people. There is no such statement. That is your manufactured idea. But we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is the difference. Our preaching is that instead of giving relief to the eyes, give him relief in such a way he hasn't got to accept any more this body with eyes. You cannot make a solution of the problem. Somebody is taking care of the eyes, somebody's taking of the finger, somebody of the hair, somebody of another, genital, and so on, so on. This will not solve the problem. The problem is, as it is said in the Bhagavad..., janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is intelligence. As soon as you take birth, then you'll have eyes, you'll have eye trouble, vyādhi. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. If you accept janma-mṛtyu, then between janma-mṛtyu there is vyādhi and jarā. You have to accept. You may give some relief, but you have to accept. So that is not solution. The solution is how to stop this janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is solution. That is bigger solution. So we are giving that thing—there will be no more eyes' trouble. The main disease... Suppose one man is diseased, so sometimes he is feeling headache, sometimes eye-ache, sometimes finger-ache, and you are applying some medicine for headache. That is not the solution.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be saved.

kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann

asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ

kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya

mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet

(SB 12.3.51)

He'll have nothing to do with this. If you take this vaccine—there may be epidemic-It will not touch you. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we are preaching that, "Please take it." One who is fortunate will take it. And one who is manda-bhāgyā, he'll not take it. What can be done? Our business is to canvass, "Please take it. Please take it." So we will go on like that. People may take it or don't take it. Our business, because we are servants of Kṛṣṇa... Ya imaṁ mad-bhakteṣu. Find out. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. It is paramaṁ guhyam. When Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), it is not very easily accepted. That is the most confidential part of His instruction. But still, we have to canvass.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Is that why Bhagatji didn't leave Vṛndāvana? Is that why he didn't want to leave?

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't speak for anyone. But these kinds of paramahaṁsas are there. They cannot go out of Vṛndāvana. They are so advanced. But in Vṛndāvana, if there is a beautiful woman, try to exploit her. Go on. So I wanted to talk with you about that Saurabha, but he's coming on Monday. No? Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked the Gosvāmīs that you develop Vṛndāvana, so Gosvāmīs, they did that. But these smoker, bidi smoker paramahaṁsas, they imitate Rūpa Gosvāmī: "You cannot go." Simply by imitating Gosvāmīs by a loincloth they have become... (break) Pṛthivīte āche yata naga... All over the world, as many villages and towns are there, preach. But this paramahaṁsa says, "No, no. I cannot go beyond Vṛndāvana." Kali's..., Kali-yuga paramahaṁsa. Practically, if I remained at Rādhā-Dāmodara temple becoming a paramahaṁsa, then how this institution would have come into existence? That is a fact. But we are not doing. If I would have been a great paramahaṁsa, not leave Vṛndāvana; I would have been very happy in that room, no botheration. Then how this movement would have been started all over the world?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: He was a politician. Pseudopolitician.

Prabhupāda: He went to preach Vedānta, but instead of preaching Vedānta, he learned so many things which is objectionable from Vedic civilization.

Mr. Asnani: He also said that you cannot teach the religion on empty stomachs.

Prabhupāda: That is his philosophy.

Girirāja: So many people say that.

Prabhupāda: But why the kings left their kingdom and became empty stomach? There were...

Mr. Asnani: They lived in jungle for tapasya.

Prabhupāda: Why this Bhārata-varṣa, Bharata Mahārāja, at the twenty-four years of age and his wife was young, children were young, and he was emperor of the whole world, so why went voluntarily to become empty stomach? He was not poverty-stricken. But why he accepted?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was... I thought that I am giving my imagination, who will take it? It is my imagination. Of course with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.

Hari-śauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men when they speak, it just comes out... It's just not practical or they don't know how to translate it into action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern...

Girirāja: It has a very nice purport.

Prabhupāda: Find out that. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanyaḥ...

Pradyumna: Oh, I know.

Prabhupāda: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel...

Hari-śauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It's an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.

Prabhupāda: They were my beginning speeches in your country, in America. I was daily speaking in... So Hayagrīva has edited. Hm.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: 4,500?

Hari-śauri: To hire a cook, hire some cooks, they want that much money.

Gurudāsa: Everyone is cheating for the Mela. So I said, "No, no." So I said to our men, "We must do it." So I think we'll be able to do it. I preached to them.

Prabhupāda: No, last year we were doing ourselves, our Swami... Who...?

Gurudāsa: Who was that?

Prabhupāda: He's well-known swami. I forget his name. Was in England?

Hari-śauri: Revatīnandana?

Prabhupāda: Revatīnandana. No, Revatīnandana. Yes, Revatī...

Hari-śauri: He was in England.

Gurudāsa: He was cooking. He's a good cook.

Prabhupāda: He has cooked very nice.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: Yes. We have Life Member tents, and some visitors have been coming. I have been receiving them. So we have... There's one thing I wanted to ask you. A lot of youths are coming, Western youths, some hippies, but mostly clean. Some hippies. But there are two hippies, and I saw what they were like, and I didn't allow them to stay. But mostly our camp is... Until the devotees come, there are some tents that are empty. So they said, "We need a place to stay. Is it all right?" So I said, "Tonight you can stay. Then I'll let you know later on." And we preached to them. We have a morning program there, and we have an evening program. So they attended. So I thought with your permission I could erect some tents, not in our living area... The chokidhars I put outside, right on the gate, because I didn't think they should live in our area, but they should be there, so the chokidhars have a tent. I thought behind the pandal I could erect some tents, or even behind our tin where people wouldn't see them so much, we could invite some guests, charge them something for living and preach to them.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they smoke.

Gurudāsa: Yes, some will.

Prabhupāda: That is bad.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First they should be shaved, clean-shaved. Will they accept that? They must take early in the water, take bath. Cleanliness.

Gurudāsa: No, they won't do. So I won't have that. I just thought it was a preaching opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Preaching, if there is not clean even, what they will understand?

Gurudāsa: Well, when I came, I was not clean either. By your grace I cleaned up.

Hari-śauri: They won't clean up.

Gurudāsa: No, no. I accept what, you know. I want to do...

Prabhupāda: People may not misunderstand that "This is hippie camp."

Gurudāsa: Yes. The police were sending, and I went to the Mela officials...

Prabhupāda: Therefore the police came. They thought that you are hippies.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you consult amongst yourselves, but people may not have a bad impression.

Gurudāsa: I think I will not do it because if you think there's any small chance of them associating with us...

Prabhupāda: Alpa-chidre. A small... White, white cloth and a small black spot, it becomes prominent.

Gurudāsa: So we won't do it. We can try and preach to them at other place. Because we're going out on saṅkīrtana many times. We're getting a list of all the other programs in the Mela, so we'll take our saṅkīrtana parties where it's going to be prominent and pass out literature. Now, for the meeting, for the resolution, I thought perhaps on the 16th or the 17th, because it is close to the big bathing day on the 14th and it won't conflict that much with other programs.

Prabhupāda: Meeting means all other sādhus, they will meet?

Gurudāsa: Yes. I'm getting invitations printed up, and then we can write their names in, and I want to make the invitation something personal, like "This is a meeting of utmost importance."

Prabhupāda: So that, some Swami Chand?

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pontoon bridge.

Gurudāsa: But they put up some more pontoon bridges also this year. Very far off. Actually, there's not very much near there. He wanted to be far off because they don't do any preaching. And we wanted to be right in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is their purpose?

Gurudāsa: Their purpose is feeding a small group of sādhus that are in that area who want to be far off. Ekadaṇḍi. And they feed... The prasādam is good, that they give. He was correct. They are giving capatis and dhal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Eating must be very nice, clean.

Gurudāsa: Yes. And respectable. We'll do it. (break)

Prabhupāda: I thought we could save the expenditure. But that is not possible.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And besides that, the Māyāvādīs... Eh? Inconvenience.

Gurudāsa: Yes. And they would not appreciate our preaching all the time.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). Sarva nāśa.

Gurudāsa: If they have a similar verse to that, then they would be very unhappy.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurudāsa: I'm saying if they had, "Do not hear personalists' bhāṣya," they would become very unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...that within the Kṛṣṇa's mouth there are millions of brahmāṇḍas, they think it is simply fictitious. Doctor, saheb, you are feeling all right?

Dr. Patel: No, I just ran. I ran a little, so I...

Prabhupāda: Oh, so why don't you sit down?

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu went there.

Devotee (1): He went to Manipur then.

Gurudāsa: Wasn't it one of the times he was going to Vṛndāvana but didn't go, then He went to Manipur? Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go and preach in eastern Bengal. And His original paternal house is in Sylhet.

Dr. Patel: It is in Assam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His forefathers from Sylhet. Jagannātha Miśra, His father came from Sylhet to Navadvipa for studying. Then Nilambara Cakravartī got him married with his daughter, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother. And he resided in Nabadwip.

Gurudāsa: There's one temple in Vṛndāvana where they have Deities of Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda that look like Manipur. They made His eyes like that.

Prabhupāda: That is not so good. If you make any picture, then you paint according to the people's, local people's feature. Kata catur anana, mani mani yāvat. Vidyāpati. You have heard the name of Vidyāpati? He was a great poet of Darbhanga.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kata catur anana, mari mari yāvata, nā tuyā ari avasana. You have seen Russian publication? Easy Journey to Other Planets. They have printed.

Gurudāsa: They're going to distribute it on that train that goes into Russia. By the way, Śrīgarbha came to me and said, "I'm sorry for all your difficulty. I wanted to preach in Poland again." That boy? So he's going to deposit his wife and go to Poland.

Prabhupāda: Deposit where?

Gurudāsa: He wants to do it in Florida.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Florida is nice place.

Gurudāsa: Because he feels she's protected there. I said, "You'll feel that she is protected there, and then you'll have a free mind to preach?" And he said, "Yes, rather than in Europe." So I said, "All right." In your letter you wrote, "Let it go for now." Again you saw the future. "Let it go for now." Then he came.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go down? No.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But they do not know whom to expose. That they do not know. That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: They are making it possible for us to preach in all the TVs, radios, and newspapers.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is our opportunity. The governor has invited.

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, after Kṛṣṇa told Rukmiṇī that He would have to leave her...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: ...then she was speaking to Him and saying that "You say that no one can understand Your activities. And also no one can understand the activities of Your devotee." So nobody knows what we're doing. They all put some psychological name, but they can't grasp the essence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they're afraid.

Rāmeśvara: One of their big charges is that when we go out and distribute our books we are very aggressive, and therefore it is a sign that we are not actually religious.

Prabhupāda: Every salesman must be aggressive. That is a qualification.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to become devotee means to do the best service to the family. If there is one devotee in the family, all the forefathers, they are delivered. So anyway, don't be disappointed. Go on fighting and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be right. There is no cause of disappointment.

Rāmeśvara: Actually the field now for preaching in America is better than ever. More people are becoming interested to hear what we are and what our message is than ever before because of all this controversy. Whenever something is making newspapers that is confusing or controversial, they immediately want to hear about it because they have a tendency to look for faults.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: But they're very eager to have us come to the colleges and high schools...

Prabhupāda: Envious.

Rāmeśvara: ...to speak. It's much easier now to get lecturing engagements than ever before. They are after us to give our lectures.

Prabhupāda: So why not engage Brahmānanda in that business?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: In New York or L.A. Wherever you think...

Prabhupāda: Let him go to the colleges accompanied by some other.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then this kīrtana... This is kīrtana, speaking. Whatever little fault is there, that will be rectified.

Rāmeśvara: He'll like it too. Coming into America to help fight the demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately do that. This is conclusion. Engage him in preaching, and this is the opportunity. You said that "We require so many." Similarly, Madhudviṣa can be engaged also in that way.

Rāmeśvara: Wow. I was thinking... I wrote him a letter. He was very happy to receive it. He posted it in the restaurant. I invited him to come to Los Angeles. I was encouraging him.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking him from the very beginning, that he come.

Rāmeśvara: If he doesn't feel comfortable coming all the way to India, maybe I can invite him to Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have sent him telegram, Madhudviṣa. I have sent him telegram that "You come."

Rāmeśvara: He may be too entangled to come right away.

Prabhupāda: What is that entanglement?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then engage them.

Rāmeśvara: If he's willing, he could give speaking engagements. I tell you, America is just wide open.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why not take this... Suppose he is attracted by some woman. Let him dress like a gentleman and keep with the woman as husband and wife and preach. What is the wrong there? Whatever is done, you close up that chapter. Now you become a householder. There is no harm. And live as a gentleman householder and preach. But don't play duplicity in the dress of sannyāsī to keep private relations. That is not good. That is duplicity. Better openly become a respectable householder and serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main thing, either in this dress or that dress. So if you cannot keep yourself sincerely as a sannyāsī, then get yourself married. But you cannot keep the girl as friend. That is also not good.

Jagadīśa: But for Brahmānanda, he may remain sannyāsī? Brahmānanda?

Prabhupāda: That is his choice. But we say that "Don't be hypocrite." That's all. If he thinks now he'll be able to continue as a sannyāsī, he'll not fall down, he'll be careful, let him continue. That will depend on his sincerity. But I say that if you cannot remain as a sannyāsī, get yourself married, live like a gentleman and serve Kṛṣṇa. Why should you give up Kṛṣṇa's service? That is my point. As you want to live, any way, comfortably, do it. We never condemned gṛhasthas. If sannyāsa is not suitable for you, you remain as a gṛhastha. What is the wrong there?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's coming. Kīrtanānanda has gone.

Rāmeśvara: Kīrtanānanda has gone, but now they are a little confused what should be done next. They originally... The plan was that he was going to come here to be your secretary. So now they need some new instruction. So we thought Jagadīśa could call and invite him to come to America to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is better. That is better. To write some letters here, that is not so important. But if he can preach and he... At least, we are expecting... He's old sannyāsī. He knows how to preach. Let him do that.

Jagadīśa: So I'll suggest that he goes straight to America instead of coming here.

Prabhupāda: If he's coming here, let him come. We shall talk together. There is no secrecy.

Jagadīśa: I'll leave it up to him, as he prefers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's coming, don't stop him. That is...

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've got a letter here from Jayādvaita and from Jagannātha dāsa regarding some corrections. These are two books that are in production right now. So would it be all right to ask you them?

Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And if we have to take contribution, take ISKCON. They're free. But for Bhaktivedanta Trust there is no need of contribution. Then there will be exemption certificate required and so on. We don't want any contribution. If anyone wants to contribute, let him contribute to the ISKCON. They're tax free. And here there is no tax, no tax free. That's all. Print book and sell and spend. Follow this policy there and here also, and push these books. That is our main preaching. Somehow or other, it must go, from door to door, hand to hand. Then our preaching is successful. Anyone who will read, he'll get some benefit. That is sure, because such literatures are not available throughout the whole world. It is a new revolution to the people in general. Am I right or not?

Rāmeśvara: Definitely.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) Then do it now. And I shall spend all this money for advertisement. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One of the biggest bookstores in Bombay, International Book House, has arranged a whole window display of your books.

Prabhupāda: That is useless.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of.... And no sense that "It is my mother."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Not only aham. Aham is good. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is good. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, when he becomes rascal by false ahaṅkāra, then it is dangerous. It is dangerous. And that is going on, these dangerous leaders, by ahaṅkāra, spoiling the whole atmosphere. That is dangerous. Our preaching is... We say that "Here is Kṛṣṇa speaking. He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, and you chant His name and go to the temple, offer your obeisances. And if you can, offer something for His pūjā." Bas. Our mission is completed. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. The words are there. (break) (Hindi) Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27).

Girirāja: About fifteen more minutes.

Prabhupāda: Hm? So I can go and take my massage now.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Explanation also not very much required because the explanation is already there, and we are not so intelligent that we can explain. But we take it, the words of the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If we see that one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he comes to this group: duṣkṛtina, narādhamāḥ and mūḍha. That's all. This is our conclusion. We are fools and rascal. We take the words of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa on account of duṣkṛtina. Kṛti means he's doing something meritorious—but for bad purpose, duṣkṛtina. He is taxing his brain to do something, but against the will of Bhagavad-gītā. That is called duṣkṛtina. The purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or God. But if you are deviating them to become atheists, narādhamāḥ, then what is Bhagavad-gītā preaching? You preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So they take the Bhagavad-gītā for serving their purpose. Somebody was telling me that Dr. Radhakrishnan said that "If you take Bhagavad-gītā as..., Kṛṣṇa as God...," something like that, that they deny that Kṛṣṇa is God. This is Bhagavad-gītā preaching. God is speaking Himself-bhagavān uvāca. Vyāsadeva (Hindi). Vyāsadeva... Who can be better scholar than Vyāsadeva? Vidvān. He is recognized vidvān. Veda-Vyāsa. All ācāryas accept. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitā. So Vyāsadeva.... (Hindi) bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Cent percent, they are speaking something which is not the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) You can speak whatever you like. You have got that liberty.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Some reason anyābhilāṣitā. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is called anyābhilāṣa. So people are infested with anyābhilāṣa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That you have to... That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gītā. This is bhakti.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

(Brs. 1.1.11)

And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). So they have got full of anyābhilāṣa, jñāna-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmī, jñāni, yogi—they have got some purpose.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unconditional. That is surrender. If we read Bhagavad-gītā in that way, then sthito 'smi, then sthita prajñā. And if you make cut short... Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have said, I accept it in total." That is surrender. No cut short.

Guest (12) (Indian man): Fulfills all requirements, mental requirements.

Prabhupāda: I'll request Bajaji. You are, yourself, your wife and your sister, and our Śrīman Nārāyaṇaji, all, you are all very intelligent. You take this Bhagavad-gītā preaching seriously. That is my request. Not cut short (Hindi). No cut short. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). What is that verse?

Hari-śauri: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14).

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Whatever you are saying," yan māṁ vadasi keśava, "I accept them." No cut short. No mutilation. Then?

Hari-śauri: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktiṁ vidur devā na dānavāḥ.

Prabhupāda: "Your personality is not understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary men." Then?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). So sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). If we accept sarvam etad ṛtam, as it is, then we benefited, and if we do not accept in that way, then it is naṣṭaḥ. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Then it is being spoiled. And what benefit you will get with spoiled thing? As soon as you interpret it is spoiled, immediately spoiled. So what benefit will be derived from the spoiled things? And that is being done. Don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, don't believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, and if I am preaching Bhagavad-gītā, what is the benefit? It is spoiled? So if you distribute some spoiled food, it will increase food poison. That is going on. Instead of taking benefit from a first-class food, if you distribute a spoiled, then there will be food poisoning. That is being done. In India every home knows Bhagavad-gītā. And because it is spoiled now there will be food poisoning. They are denying the existence of God. God is speaking—Bhagavān uvāca—and they are now..., don't.... They are not believing in the existence of God. "God? Where is God?" Science. This is going on. If we speak of God, then we are "primitive." And up-to-date? "I am God; you are God." This is up to date. And if we say, "Now, God is Kṛṣṇa. You worship Him. You become devotee," this is primitive. And these Americans, although they are up to date, they have accepted it, my word. I presented them that Kṛṣṇa is God. They have accepted. This is their qualification.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Our leaders must be very good.

Hari-śauri: That means we have to move into political circles (train starts moving) and do a lot of preaching on there.

Prabhupāda: If you work strictly on your principles, then everyone...

Rāmeśvara: In America there is a rule that there is separation of church and government.

Prabhupāda: It is not church.

Rāmeśvara: But they think of us...

Prabhupāda: Not stereotyped church.

Rāmeśvara: But they think of us as a religion.

Prabhupāda: They may think. It is not the fact. It is a culture.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: But what is the meaning of these followers? They do not understand anything. Simply by rubber-stamp they are follower.

Rāmeśvara: But if we can get a mass following, it is only possible by preaching to them little bit at a time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your ideal life, ideal teaching, you'll get. This Christian or any religion, what is the use of that? It's not at all religion. It's simply rubber-stamp.

Rāmeśvara: No. But if we had many people, then gradually we could help them become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But I think they all... One thing that scares people is that we ask too much...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is...

Rāmeśvara: ...at the beginning. We are asking too much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: They killed him after three years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are so rascal that his personal instruction is...

Rāmeśvara: Three years?

Jagadīśa: Three years' preaching and they killed him.

Prabhupāda: Why he will waste his time to rascals like you? And I understand that Jesus Christ said that "I have to say many thing, but I did not say..." like that.

Rāmeśvara: He said, "I have more to tell that ye cannot bear."

Prabhupāda: You cannot?

Rāmeśvara: Bear.

Prabhupāda: Means "you cannot understand."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That is your instruction also. Jehovah says that you shall not worship any other God. So, Jesus Christ says also that you shall not worship. So that is the way of preaching. That is required.

Jagadīśa: That is also required in the military.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That also has been described by Professor Stillson? "Charismastic"? What is...?

Jagadīśa: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: I think whatever was there was either packed in the basket or the cooker, and there was no sugar. So, I'll have to... If you want, I can have one of these men go and find some.

Prabhupāda: Sugar? Where you'll find?

Rāmeśvara: But the... Pradyumna has some sweet mango.

Prabhupāda: No.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Grape candy?

Jagadīśa: No. Fruit.

Rāmeśvara: So, actually, their arguments are not very... So therefore it is simply a plan of Kṛṣṇa to help give us some prominence, make us more well known.

Jagadīśa: Give us a chance to preach.

Rāmeśvara: Because their arguments have no substance.

Prabhupāda: Defeat them. "God cannot came as fish." "Why? What kind of God He is? He likes, He can do. That is God."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That is individual surrender. We have not rendered that way. He surrendered individually.

Hari-śauri: When Christ preached, he told them to "Give up your work; give up your family; give up everything. Don't try to earn a livelihood. Don't worry about where your food will come from. Don't worry where your cloth will come from." He said that in his instructions to his disciples. I think it's in the Acts according to St. Matthew.

Jagadīśa: His disciples simply...

Hari-śauri: He gave the example that "The birds, they do not try to make a living, but God is feeding them. So do you not think God will help feed if you go out and do His work?" That is what he said to them. (indistinct) And they say they are Christians, but actually the real Christianity is what we are practicing.

Rāmeśvara: And also Dr. Harvey Cox of Harvard, he quoted one section of the Bible where Jesus was preaching and his mother did not like it, and his father, and they came to get him away. They thought he was gone crazy, that he was preaching so much about God. So they came to his place where he had gathered many people. They wanted to deprogram him. And Jesus said, "You're not my mother. You're not my father. My real father is in heaven, and my real relatives are those who believe in God."

Prabhupāda: Where is that?

Rāmeśvara: That's right in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: (break) Because there are many fanatics.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: These are weapons. That was the only endeavor, how legally he could occupy the bricks and stones of Gauḍīya Math. That's all. He had no other ambition. How to push on Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, how to push on Guru Mahārāja's... He had no such. It was simply show. But real purpose was how to occupy, how to take the whole property. Business.

Rāmeśvara: And none of the other Godbrothers had strong preaching spirits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They also, when they saw that "This man is legally taking everything. Gauḍīya sannyāsīs, we cannot go home. We must have some shelter." No spirit of pushing on.

Rāmeśvara: Even by your example they have not learned anything.

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Dacca University next to Calcutta University. Just see how human beings are becoming less than ferocious animals.

Gargamuni: Even one man, he was making a plaque in your name in thankfulness for preaching this Vaiṣṇava-dharma. He was making a wooden plaque, and he was a doctor of physics at the university. And one night they came in and shot him and his whole family, this man. He was very helpful to us while we were there.

Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...

Gargamuni: No, his fault was that he had some education. Anyone who was doing anything... This one boy who was translating your books, he was a very educated person. He was about thirty years old.

Prabhupāda: Hindu.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why American patronize Pakistan?

Gargamuni: Because... Against Russia. India is with Russia. And China... Also the Pakistanis... When I was in Pakistan, they have great love for the Chinese people. When I was there it was more than the Americans. They liked the Chinese more than the Americans. 'Cause I went to the Karachi University 'cause I thought we could start some preaching there. So I met the professor of philosophy and he had agreed that we could give some lecture, but not on Indian culture but on yoga or something. So the students there were very much... They liked the Chinese. They were always talking, "Oh, China." So China is also opposed to Russia. So in this way the sides were taken. But it's a hellish place there. It's all sand.

Prabhupāda: Karachi.

Gargamuni: Yes. Very hot. We used to get our fruit... There was no place where we could eat, so we used to buy fruit and nuts at the Empress Market, very big market.

Prabhupāda: Dacca.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yellowish or greenish?

Gargamuni: No. They're pinkish inside, pink color. Yellow skin but pink inside and very sweet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmuja. (?) And some sweet scent also.

Gargamuni: Yes. They're very nice. We ate so many of them. (Hari-śauri preaching to someone in background:)

Hari-śauri: Because He's the Supreme Person. You're worshiping Indira Gandhi or in America they're worshiping Nixon or Ford. In Britain they're worshiping someone else. Everyone is worshiping someone who is better than he is. You may go to work and worship your boss because he'll give you a better pay check.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. (chuckling with devotees)

Gargamuni: I read in the paper. They're having elections in March.

Prabhupāda: Karachi?

Gargamuni: No, here, here in India.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Bangladesh. It will be great service.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's a few people asking for darśana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's one boy we've been preaching to. He's a student in sociology.

Prabhupāda: Let him come. No "logy" before Kṛṣṇa conscious. All "logy" finished.

Rāmeśvara: Hari-śauri, I turned this off. You going to stay here, Hari-śauri? So I should take it out? Leave it?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You belong to Orissa.

Guest (1): Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara.

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is your philosophy?

Guest (1): Sir, we are coming just to have a darśana from you. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Hari-śauri: This young man here is a student. He's studying for his MA in sociology. He has a few questions.

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...neither they do not know how life becomes possible. They may go on (Imitating the speaker?) "Bhag, bhag," but these two things are absent. You are all scientists? No. You do not know how life becomes possible. They simply theorize in so many ways, but they cannot give us any positive information. (Bengali) "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So we can take the words of the ācāryas. (Bengali) (someone preaching in Oriya in background) (Prabhupāda speaks in Bengali to guests, tells someone to give them prasāda)

Indian boy: I want to read some books published by Swamiji. Can I get?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? You can have here. We have got forty standing orders from this city in different libraries, colleges. So you can take books from any library, or if you like you can purchase also.

Indian: From libraries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissan. (aside:) You can give me little, little sample... (break) ...for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what... He's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ says, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act... They possesses the soul. Then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.

Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is some good lessons to learn from them, because they were persecuted, they were killed by the government even. But they didn't give up their faith. They remained very faithful, the early Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The woman sannyāsī, Rāmakrishna Mission has.

Rāmeśvara: He's... What is it? Śivānanda? Divine Light. They advertise, "Come to our summer camp for yoga practice, and our women will teach you." They are swamis.

Gargamuni: His students sued him one time because he preaches brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: I have seen their sannyāsī kissing woman on the street.

Rāmeśvara: On the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He came to see me in London, and I saw in the street there was some woman; he is kissing her. I have seen sannyāsī.

Nanda-kumāra: This Rajneesh makes woman sannyāsīs too.

Prabhupāda: Rajneesh makes husband and wife sannyāsī. That we saw, that, in Poona?

Hari-śauri: Yes. We stayed at one man's house, and his brother was a follower of Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Well, even more than that, we know that we have the secret to real life, so it's our duty to actually... Just like you say...

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. That is preaching.

Rāmeśvara: ...the surgeon, he must cut.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: The doctor must...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...save the patient. It's his duty.

Prabhupāda: No artificial dealing. Purge out.

Hari-śauri: When one actually has the power, he can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So by our preaching now, we have to try and establish a Kṛṣṇa consciousness government first through the democratic system.

Rāmeśvara: You said, "Think in terms of the whole world, not just one nation. That is our preaching." So you are training us to think very big, global.

Prabhupāda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Āpani ācārī prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So unless there is enjoyment he cannot stick. But that enjoyment is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Just that chanting is enough. It's just so much nectar.

Prabhupāda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kīrtana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.

Rāmeśvara: This requires superintelligence. Just like, say, in Los Angeles there are two hundred devotees. It is taxing our brains how to give proper engagement to every one of them.

Prabhupāda: Well, this engagement is: "Go and sell books." That engagement is already there.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but some are not qualified, some householders...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of quality, of... It doesn't matter whether he sells one book or hundred books. It doesn't matter. Let him be engaged, that's all.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never said that "You sit down, lazy." You must work. And that is intelligence, how to engage a person in some work. That requires governing body. That is intelligence. They should be ready to work, and your intelligence will engage them. And there is sufficient. Why you are constructing so many centers? There is enough work to do. Just like here. All people are coming, and each one can be preached, each one can be convinced of the philosophy.

Gargamuni: In India there are 500,000 villages. So we need so many men for going.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we want that all these village people may come daily and hear and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gargamuni: They were in Assam, one of our traveling parties, and they met a Gauḍīya Math temple managed by Mādhava Mahārāja. And there were three or four brahmacārīs in the village, and they had the whole village actually engaged. They saw some of the activities. So they were engaged in making the village Kṛṣṇa conscious in their way. So similarly, we can do the same. Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Just like Gaura-Govinda, he's bringing many villagers here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's good preacher.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: India is good field. Yes. India is good field.

Gargamuni: At least, we can use one hundred travel... You once told me and Tamāla that we should have a hundred jeeps and send them all over India, one hundred jeeps.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Now you are seeing that there is possibility of preaching. And even if he cannot speak local language, still he'll be received.

Gargamuni: Yes. And all of our magazines, at least in Bengal, are being... (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...to organize the whole world to cheating, then, it seems, we can be given the intelligence to organize it for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: You can also cheat them. (chuckles) From māyā's way, bring then to Kṛṣṇa's way. That's all. That is also cheating. Tell them, "Yes, you live like this."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended. So why you are stopping animal-killing?" The Buddha... Buddha replied, "I don't care for your Vedas." Does it mean that he did not care? Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. He played like that, that "I am nāstika. I don't believe in your Vedas." But actually he's not. His mission was different. But these rascals will not understand why he is denying the authority of Vedas. So they're atheists. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Lord Buddha appeared to cheat the atheist class of men. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Sura-dviṣam means those who are envious of the believers, sura. They are called sura. And those who do not believe in God, they are called asura. Just to bewilder them that "Here is incarnation..." They do not accept incarnation. They do not accept God.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The temple is nice, and let us renovate it and establish our center, and gradually, if Americans preach there, the Muhammadans will come. If Hindu preach, they'll take otherwise. But when they see the Americans have come, they'll take it little seriously. And now we have got philosophy. At least the educated class will understand. You take that, and it will be a great triumph. My Guru Mahārāja will be pleased. He established that temple, and Tīrtha Mahārāja was selling it. But he has no power to go there. He was exchanging. I told you that that I went to the donor and asked him that "Your temple is being exchanged with a Muhammadan." So they took it seriously, and they stopped it. This temple was donated by one big zamindar. They live in Sababazar.(?) They have got enough property in Dacca, big zamindar, Balihet. How he dared to exchange the temple established by Guru Mahārāja for a house in Calcutta? Just what kind of person he was, just imagine.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So they may sell it to us on that basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall develop. (break)

Gargamuni: ...talking about in Purī, that there's a class of men who are preaching that because of Caitanya's movement, Islam was spreading, because the king became somewhat weakened, they have said. So I met one such man there also at the Purī Hotel. He said, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? By this Caitanya cult the Islam has spread." He was saying. So I told him, "You said that. We don't get any information historically. In fact it was the reverse, that this Hussain, the Nawab Hussain Shah, he became a great follower." He said, "No, that is not written anywhere." I said, "No, it is in Caitanya-caritāmṛta." He did not accept Caitanya-caritāmṛta as historic fact. He was a crazy man.

Prabhupāda: Demon.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You say no, but they take it like that. Even a person like Vivekananda, he said long ago that "This Vaiṣṇavism is sex religion." They misunderstand. So just try to understand. This līlā is kept in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Tenth Canto, and middle of Tenth Canto, Thirty-fourth, Thirty-fifth Chapter. So one has to understand Kṛṣṇa first of all. So it is not for ordinary men. So we discourage these things to be discussed or presented even for ordinary men. This is our preaching. It cannot be taken as ordinary film show.

Guest (2): No, sir, he was taking it in different angle, that Kṛṣṇa was by these Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: That's all right...

Guest (2): That is the rasa. We are talking of the rasa-līlā.

Prabhupāda: Rasa, that is not for ordinary persons. It is most confidential. So this has deteriorated. Otherwise, so many gentlemen come here... And India, they are asking, "What is God?" This is the question. "Why God was killed?" Yesterday this was the question.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: One magistrate came. There were many respected people came.

Bhāgavata: Tonight?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If we make here nice arrangement, nice preaching, people will come here. People will come when there is real teaching.

Hari-śauri: In Vṛndāvana no one was coming to Rāman Reti until our temple was there. Now thousands come.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was coming. What...? Why they will come Rāman Reti?

Hari-śauri: It was a very dangerous area, actually, to come to.

Prabhupāda: And Bon Mahārāja is there for the last forty years. Nobody came. Nobody goes there. (laughter) It is always locked, great failure. So much money he has squandered, lakhs and lakhs.

Hari-śauri: No kīrtana, no Deities.

Prabhupāda: And he wanted to attract foreigners. And not a single foreigner.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But it helps all the citizens if the devotees are ruling the kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is wanted. Therefore, if we become strong, we shall take over charge of government. It is not that we are entering into politics. We must! That is also one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are misguided. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. They are being induced to remain in ignorance. Therefore we want, make our plan. Śoce: "I am thinking very seriously how to save them." Prahlāda Mahārāja says. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. "They are suffering." That is Vaiṣṇava, real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Now I am realized soul, sit down and..." That is also good, but better business is to think for others. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu... (Bg 18.68), na ca tasmād. If you want to be really very dear to Kṛṣṇa, you must preach this philosophy vigorously, not that "I have got it. Who is going to take so much botheration? Let me sit down." Kṛṣṇa... Who can be better devotee than Arjuna? And why did he... He was, rather, avoiding the botheration. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You must take the botheration." He chastised him, kutas tva kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame. "Rascal, what is this? You must take. You have to take this botheration." On this principle, at the age of seventy years, I took all the botheration—"All right." The other friends were thinking that "This man is going to die, and he is going to preach." (laughing) They said like that. And "All right. I shall die, I shall die for Kṛṣṇa's cause." So we have to face so many problems, botherations. That is natural. We should not be afraid of this.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But when there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die, but when there is warning of death, why you fly? (laughter) Rascal, why you fly? That means you do not want to die. You give this slogan, that "When there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die." (laughter) It is a rascal civilization, that's all. Western civilization is a rascal civilization. I do not take they are civilized even. No. White aborigines. That's all. (break) Mahāprabhu says, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. In other countries there is no civilization. In India there is civilization. Just you become civilized and distribute this knowledge.

bhārata bhūmite haile manuṣya janma jāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that para upakara. They do not know what is civilization. Such broader idea of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He never said that "Sit down in Vṛndāvana and become a bābājī." Kara para upakara. That is saṅkīrtana.

abaddha-karuṇā-sindhu katiha mohan

brahmāra durlabha prema nitāi kare dāna

This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. Karuṇā-sindhu, the ocean of mercy, it was blocked. Let it be opened, and distribute throughout the whole world. So if you work vigorously, this is an epoch-making history, how real culture is being distributed for the benefit of the whole human society. They'll realize. What do you think? Eh?

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Every gentleman should have a valuable library of these. That we want. Then our preaching is successful.

Hari-śauri: Once people recognize the worth of spiritual literature, then they'll purchase. Just like they sell these Encyclopedia Brittanicas from house to house.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri:...on the basis, "You've got so many children. They need this knowledge and education for when they go to school." So they purchase whole volumes.

Prabhupāda: Introducing as study book in higher colleges, universities, text book, then it will be... What is the use, a so-called scholar having a Ṣaṭ-sandarbha? And this has been failure... Our one Godbrother, he did. Simply he printed. It was not sold, and then it was mishandled, distributed like anything.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: Sex-monger

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are taking Kṛṣṇa on your level. You are such a rascal. You do not know Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddh... (BG 7.3), yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. You are taking Him on your level. Therefore you are trying to criticize Him. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is your ignorance. What is food for one is poison for others. So for you it is poison, not for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is God. He has everything. He can use everything. That is God. He is not restricted by anyone. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Who can restrict Him? Then He's not God. If by a third-class man like you He's restricted of His sex life, then He's not God. He becomes under your control. But Kṛṣṇa is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). He's the supreme controller. How He can be controlled by your so-called goodness and badness? So the conclusion is you do not know Kṛṣṇa. You want to bring Kṛṣṇa in your level of understanding, and that is your foolishness. So we don't care for the fools like you. This is our conclusion. Avajānanti... That is replied. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ: (BG 9.11) "Rascals, fools, they criticize Me, thinks Me that I am as good as human being." Mānusīṁ janma. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "The rascals do not know what is My actual position." So you have to preach in that way.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise where is the need of preaching? If you expect everyone is in favor of Kṛṣṇa, then where is the need of pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Gargamuni: In the West we can discuss philosophy with people. They never try to attack Kṛṣṇa's...

Gurukṛpā: Now they are attacking, because they have gotten your books. (Prabhupāda laughs) Even the Christians, they have read your books. And they are saying, "Well, Kṛṣṇa did this. Kṛṣṇa did that."

Prabhupāda: He must do it because He's God. You do not... You have no conception. You explain that if there is no such things, then wherefrom it has come? God is the origin. In the Bible also it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation.' " So in the creation there are so many things. So therefore everything comes from God. That is Vedānta philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So why do you say, "Your God is like this"? God has everything. Otherwise how He's God? There is no meaning of God if He is deficient in something. But you do not know.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) "That is not your business. You better ask because you have taken him as authority. You have already taken him as authority, the excommunicated member. So you ask him." These things will happen. In preaching, you cannot expect very smooth path going. Otherwise what is the use of preaching?

Hari-śauri: That's been going on for a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: Even their own religion started like that. Jesus's..., one of his best disciples turned him in.

Gurukṛpā: Actually they are helping us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious by giving us an opportunity to preach about Kṛṣṇa.

Gargamuni: It makes us serve with great..., more enthusiasm, even the demons.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of electricity. Electricity. Some thunder. That is electricity. The word is used, apratihatā. Pratihata means checking. When your devotional service will make progress in spite of checking, that is pure devotion. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. And that is pure devotion. I was attacked by heart attack thrice. While on the ship, twice.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him." Where is the difficulty? Anyone can preach. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Three words: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. What is the difficulty in preaching these three words? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Even a child like Sarasvatī, she can preach. Then what to speak of others? Those who are educated, grown-up, advanced, they can put the matter more nicely, more convincingly, more philosophically. That is another thing. But these three words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; you are servant; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa"—bas, preaching complete. Very simple thing and the sublime instruction. Everyone can become guru by simply teaching these three words. Not sophisticated, but he must also understand not blindly. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41)'. He must also understand these three words perfectly. Then wherever he speaks, he'll be successful. Not that "For you I am speaking. I can do everything independently." No. I am also servant of Kṛṣṇa. Realized. This is realization.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: By practically knowing he's a... Are you independent, anyone? Everyone is servant. He's serving his senses. That's all. He's servant. He's never master. But he has become the servant of māyā or senses. That's all. He has to change only; instead of becoming servant of māyā, be servant of Kṛṣṇa. Servant he is. Where he'll go? How he will become master? To remain a servant is his position. He cannot become master. That is false pride. As soon as he wants to be master, that is false pride. That is māyā. "So if I am servant, then I have to serve. So why shall I serve the senses' dictation? I will serve Kṛṣṇa, what He says." So he's self-realized immediately, within a second. Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to do. Otherwise there is no meaning of preacher. Most thankless task. We want to save them, and they accuse us. My Guru Mahārāja used to give that example: A boy is flying kite, and he's going like this. He's just come on the edge of the roof. He is going to fall down. And somebody says, "Hey! What are you doing this for?" (shouts:) "Why you are checking me? Oh, my kite is gone, gone. I have gone back." This is going on. If you want to save them, they will accuse you that "My kite-flying is disturbed. Don't do this." "And why you are. Why...? You'll fall down." "Never mind. That is my business. Why you are checking me?" This example was given by my Guru Mahārāja. You want to save him. Who is a gentleman who will not save him? He is falling down next moment. That is natural. But he is angry. "Why you have checked my kite-flying?" So it is a different type of civilization, a different style of life. If you want to introduce they will accuse you, so many, like madmen. And still we have to do. That is preaching. You cannot expect very smooth life in preaching.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, she is very responsible. Whatever I say, at least she tries to do it best. That is her qualification. Nei, everyone is doing. Nobody's...

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Nanda-kumāra wanted to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nanda-kumāra, as a sannyāsī, he should better preach. I have no objection. It is up to you to decide. I don't give much credit to the scientists. I give them credit as far as they deserve. It is not that I don't give them credit. Why shall I not? But they deny the existence and they say "We shall conquer over nature, and we shall make according to our necessity." These rascals I challenge.

Satsvarūpa: Just like you give credit to your cook.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But that does not mean that the cook is...

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Yes, the court, before the case can decide, they must read all the books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And argue line by line.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We can show them that they're actually the criminals.

Prabhupāda: Take this. Immediately write. Then it will be our preaching. In the court the books will be read, and we shall put our argument to support it. Let all the scientists, philosopher, come there. Make like that. So we have to go there now? No. Not yet.

Hari-śauri: In a few minutes.

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them the strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Why not? You just consider, yourself. You are three GBCs. And give your opinion. This is my suggestion. The same suggestion as Dr. Rajaveri(?) Ghosh said, "Yes, my lord, I have brought the whole library to teach you law."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of preaching. The lawyer can present that "My client's defense statement is here in these books." "Defense statement." Don't say, "the books." "Defense statements are there."

Hari-śauri: It's all written, already complete.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: "We've already compiled our defense..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: "...in eighty-four volumes."

Satsvarūpa: Certain sections, or just say all of these?

Prabhupāda: All, line to line.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: I have seen some of them doing this, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They have "mation." What is that? "Cremation"? (break)

Satsvarūpa: This year in the United States several temples had very good success by advertising a cooking class in the college, because many times the students, they don't want to come when they see Bhagavad-gītā or bhakti-yoga. But they would see "Indian Cooking," and they would go, and in the class they would teach how to make cooking, but then they would preach, "And so this food should be offered to God, and this is the Bhagavad-gītā." In this way it was much...

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is very nice.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. We had also classes like this in Paris. People were coming just to learn how to cook. And in that way they could hear the philosophy.

Gargamuni: Prabhupāda, these are the vehicles that I can get for three thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to repair.

Gargamuni: Yes, but still, this vehicle, if it was being sold... (break)

Prabhupāda: Authority is sufficient. And if he's imperfect, he cannot be authority. So change of authority means everyone is imperfect, so why shall I do like that?

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: They should speak their mind to you about this.

Prabhupāda: No, you talk amongst yourselves everything. And you are all GBC. Tell, "This is not good." They should have kīrtana here. They should go to the city, kīrtana party. People should know that there is... Something is going to be done. Actually they want to enjoy that sea bathing. They're going here and there. That is their business. That is not preaching. That is sense enjoyment. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Why there should be discrimination, "Not here, not there"? He wants in every village and every town. How you can discriminate? Wherever possible, you should start.

Satsvarūpa: How is all the money for construction for this temple supposed to come? By the local preaching by Gaura-Govinda or...

Prabhupāda: Somehow or other, it must come. He has promised that he will collect half.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

rabhupāda: Whatever... No, he says there is possible, that Gauḍīya Maṭha. If in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, if he can organize one center, it will be great triumph.

Satsvarūpa: Dacca.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana and prasādam distribution. This is our preaching mainly. And if they hear little philosophy, that is very good. Otherwise simply kīrtana and prasādam distribution is sufficient. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. He was not speaking philosophy to everyone. Kīrtana and prasāda distribution. So our men can perform very nice kīrtana, and if they come to take little prasādam, that is preaching. You have to maintain this standard, that kīrtana must go on and prasādam should be distributed.

Satsvarūpa: And take collection for that, to continue that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By selling books, by contribution, somehow or other maintain. Everywhere.

Satsvarūpa: Our movement has changed in America in the past six years or so. Now devotees are not much seen on the streets chanting. So there's different feelings. Some say it is all right, because everyone is now distributing books more.

Prabhupāda: That is also nice.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Well then that is all right.

Pṛthu-putra: But when we start to explain the meaning, then they're a little bit suspicious because they don't tolerate other type of religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why...? Let them chant and take prasāda. This preaching, that's all. Later on, when they're a little advanced, then talk of philosophy. Otherwise there is no need of philosophy. If they are, some of them, educated, they can read the books voluntarily. But general process is anywhere, any part of the world, you simply give them chance of chanting and take prasāda. That will be peaceful.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? Is it possible to see the lot of films now? (?)

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Somebody, some Arabian boy, translated?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...people do not know. So we are preaching for them, "It is fortunate that you accept God. You know God." So in this way. And actually that is the fact. Mostly, eighty percent of the population, they are atheists, all. The Muslims, they are not atheists.

Pṛthu-putra: No. They follow the Koran.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Pṛthu-putra: They follow very strictly the laws of Koran. Even their whole social structure is based on Koran.

Prabhupāda: That is here in India also.

Pṛthu-putra: But they are also killing the animals.

Prabhupāda: Their Koran, their Koran... Oh, that is... What can we do? They are habituated. In Arabia where is food?

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Simply follow this. Give them prasādam and let them chant. That is preaching. And if they're educated, let them read books. Then gradually, he'll automatically come. (break)

Pṛthu-putra: ...sheik. And they say that when the sheik is teaching them the spiritual understanding from Koran, they can have..., he's like the link between God and themself, and they can have direct contact with God from inside. So... And they say what Muhammad said, that was no prophet after him. So they always asking from which prophet we are following. So one day I told Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And he accept it more or less because I explained to this person... He was a professor in Cairo University. He was a Sufist himself, so he was much more open than the regular Muslim. And I explained to him that Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared according to the time and circumstances to preach love of God. And he understood it, but he just didn't know Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he said, "Then it's very nice. I can try to take knowledge of your philosophy," and he took the Gītā. He has the Gītā with him. So whenever I come back, he tell me, I always can go and give some discourses in the University, in his class. So I gave some discourses in universities, but sometimes I had to use some tricks. Like for example, once I gave a discourse in psychology department, explaining to them how the yoga system can bring you to different state of consciousness. And when I hint to Kṛṣṇa consciousness they were a little bit wondering what it is. Because unfortunately, due to their political situation, always in war with Israel and all these things, they're little bit...

Prabhupāda: Still war going on?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Don't say.

Prabhupāda: No. You can say indirectly that "God is the father of all living entities. He's the supreme father. God does not like that the weaker living entities should be killed for the satisfaction of the stomach. But when there is no alternative, then the stronger animal can take. Because even one takes vegetables, that is also eating another animal, another living being. So therefore, human being must use discretion, that 'If I can live in this way, why shall I kill one important animal?' That is human intelligence." In this way you have to preach. And besides that, according to our Bhagavad-gītā, God says, "Give Me patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26)." He never said, "Give Me meat. Give me egg." So we are devotee to Kṛṣṇa. So we give Him this vegetables, milk, and so many nice things, and take prasādam. In this way don't quarrel with them in the beginning.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Bhutan. Bhutan, yes. Not Bopal. Bopal is in... In Bhutan.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nepal, Bhutan, and Manipur.

Prabhupāda: So make Manipur a strong center and preach. The other side, Manipur, next is Burma?

Gargamuni: Burma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They used to fight. The king of Manipur and the Burmese, fighting.

Prabhupāda: Still?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They used to fight long ago.

Prabhupāda: Fighting between king and king, there is always. But what is the cause of fight? Vaiṣṇava should fight with the non-Vaiṣṇava. So I have already written you?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you can arrange when it will be suitable to go there.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So many things going on. Very difficult to lead spiritual life.

sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca

hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

(CC Madhya 11.8)

Actually one who is serious going back to home, back to Godhead—for such person, one should be niṣkiñcana, no connection with these material woman and money. Niṣkiñcanasya. (break) But I am not collecting money for sense gratification. For preaching work. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe... Kṛṣṇa sabaya yāhā haya anukula, viṣaya boliyā tāhā haya phul.(?) The anything which is favorable to my preaching work, that is not viṣaya. Ta phul.(?) Then that is mistake. Why the air is misty? That... (break) Similarly, you can kill. You have to see it, what for they are killing. Stalin was killing for his own sense gratification. He wanted to maintain himself in the position, and anyone going against him, he would kill. That was not for the citizens' benefit. For his own benefit. Therefore he's a criminal. Just like soldier is killing hundreds of thousands of other soldiers. He is being awarded, "Oh, you are brave." And as soon as he kills one man for his own—he is hanged. So we have to see what is the cause that Arjuna fought for Kṛṣṇa, he became a devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Very dear friend. What is the business? To kill. There are different.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, they are on the upstairs.

Satsvarūpa: Well, they were saying that what happens is, if they're both in the same building, that they get to hate each other, he said. The preaching is either the boys should avoid the girls and the girls should avoid the boys, but they get a very... It's better to be out of sight of each other, not even near each other. They could be in Vṛndāvana, but it'd have to be in a different building or location, they said. So maybe better Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Bombay's good. These things should be decided by the GBC.

Satsvarūpa: I mentioned that to them. They said they had been with Jagadīśa. I said, "Well why...?" They said they just want to know your opinion, then they'd go and talk with him again.

Prabhupāda: My opinion is already there according to the... They should be chaste, faithful to husband. Little literary knowledge, they can read. That's all. Not very much.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know that she's enthusiastic.

Yogeśvara: She had... (break)

Prabhupāda: Preaching work is meant for the sannyāsīs, not for the married persons. Sannyāsī and brahmacārī, they go... (microphone rattling) Married couple also go... Generally it is meant for that. So if you have got sufficient men for preaching work, so you can make one center here and traveling...

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So. GBC... What I can do?

Hari-śauri: The second language is French, isn't it?

Yogeśvara: Not too much French. English there is. Is there a GBC for Thailand?

Prabhupāda: Every GBC is for everywhere. Let it be considered in the next meeting.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You can do it, but you do not know what is the cause and why one is suffering, why... These laws you do not know. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). The prakṛti is doing. You are thinking, "Oh, I can do something." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are rascal. By false prestige you are thinking that you are so great you can do something beyond God's arrangement. So that is your rascaldom.

Hari-śauri: Then why do we bother to preach? Why not just sit and do our bhajana?

Prabhupāda: We preach that "Submit to God." That's all. That is my all preaching. We don't say that you protest against the arrangement of God." We don't say. We simply say, "Whatever arrangement God has made, you submit." That's all.

Hari-śauri: "But understand that it is from God."

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. That is our preaching.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: No one even understands actually what the problem is.

Prabhupāda: One does not understand—that does not mean the fact is not.

Hari-śauri: Yes. You said preaching is a thankless task.

Prabhupāda: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified. What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...

Hari-śauri: That they wanted to do that.

Prabhupāda: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.

Prabhupāda: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The priest meeting.

Hari-śauri: Yes. I didn't attend that. I wasn't there.

Prabhupāda: They asked me. And, "He's our guru." They very much appreciated. He is preaching God's consciousness, so he is our guru, spiritual master. That's a fact. Don't take him otherwise. He's guru.

Hari-śauri: It's just his nonsense followers.

Prabhupāda: Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Such person, great personality, why shall think of him as ordinary human being? That is nārakī-buddhi.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is preaching God's glories, he is guru. So how can I decry him? He is guru. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Unless one is guru how he can preach about God?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Actually we have a much better appreciation of Jesus than anyone.

Prabhupāda: More yes. Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I was reading some of his instructions, what he was giving to his original disciples. And he gave them examples, that "The birds, they are not worrying about their food. God is supplying. So you should not worry for your food. You should simply go out and preach."

Prabhupāda: He said like that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He said, "So what should you worry if you go out and preach? Do you think that God will not give to you?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: "He is giving to the birds."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, our mission.

Hari-śauri: Yes. And he told them, "You should not worry for your food, for your clothing, for somewhere to stay. If you preach then God will look after all those things."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Train Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Hari-śauri: Actually they're not happy, but they make a show of happiness.

Prabhupāda: No, they think they're happy. They think they are very happy. They're enjoying life.

Satsvarūpa: But we have to take the risk to go and see their face, to preach to them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are engaged in preaching, you are not affected. (break) ...Himalaya just to avoid seeing the face of the vicious.

Satsvarūpa: In Bhagavad-gītā one of the items of knowledge is to go to a solitary place...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and avoid the congested...

Prabhupāda: Practice yoga—solitary place, sacred and solitary. What is this circle we see in morning? Simply "Cāi, cāi, cāi." And cigarette, biḍi, and talking nonsense, drinking, no arrangement. Vedic system, still in India in morning they take bath, in the villages. In the cities also, those who come from village, you'll find in Bombay this side, many poor men, they're taking early in the morning bathing. You have seen that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Juhu.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...how such gṛhastha. It is never recognized.

Jayapatākā: You are actually the only one preaching there. You're the only one who has showed any preaching capacity.

Prabhupāda: No self-interest—that is the difference. I wanted to serve. That is the difference. But now it is clear. None of them, they want to serve. They want to make one establishment so that they can eat and sleep. Of course, there is some preaching, but if, there is, preaching is the purpose, why they should separate? That is not the purpose. The purpose is that "I must have some separate establishment as ordinary karmīs they have got their separate establishment." Preaching is not that, neither they can preach with enviousness. So, what to do?

Jayapatākā: In any case, he has not yet accepted, and it will take sometime to build your house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not... On principle, I am talking on the principle. That is not yet. It will take some, at least two, three years or at least one year, but this is the position. This Dāmodara Mahārāja you have already experience about... (laughs)

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Who appointed, that I don't know. But that's his business. And then Dāmodara was telling about his journey on the bus and train, but Madhusūdana Mahārāja didn't seem very interested. He criticized, "Why do you go to Kumbhamela? What is going for bathing? What is special about that bath?" And then he challenged that, "We go for preaching." "But what preaching you did there?" "No, I preached, gave lectures."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: Dāmodara Mahārāja said, "I gave lecture at the mandira, Gauḍīya Maṭha."

Prabhupāda: In Allahabad.

Jayapatākā: One advantage is they don't know any... Of course now, we have so many Bengali devotees. They don't know much English. They can generally speak most only in Bengali, most of these Godbrothers.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, he's surrounded by these men. I don't think he'll come. I think they will...

Jayapatākā: They'll influence him not to come.

Bhavānanda: Yes. They are always there, around, around, around.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever they like, they do, but I think we shall not insist on this point because we cannot stop the association.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...here is envious. So envious, upekṣā, means they should not be associated. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. Four division: God, īśvara; and tad-adhīneṣu. Devotees, those who have accepted... (break) That is devotee. Bāliśa, those who are innocent. Preaching...

Jayapatākā: Like child, bāliśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: For the time being, suspended?

Jayapatākā: I don't like to make opinion till I go and see.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What was their proposal?

Jayapatākā: Well, they come and... (break)

Prabhupāda: Our mission is to preach Gaurāṅga philosophy. Therefore we are taking. So why the municipal cannot give land for this public purpose?

Jayapatākā: That's what I mean, is that I think that if we saw actually what law that is and then we discuss it in a proper way it might be possible.

Prabhupāda: It is lying vacant. So...

Jayapatākā: There are so many places which are like that, where there is mandira being built and and sevā-pūjā is going on, and there is one sevāita or one organization has got the sevā responsibility, and that's under their charge. I think that that legality can be worked around, whatever it may be. Because our purpose is public.

Prabhupāda: The municipal means public.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: But don't we do that also?

Prabhupāda: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Kṛṣṇa consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally took sannyāsa. He rejected completely material. Niṣkiñcana. But we are not going to be niṣkiñcana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gītā. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected everything, ihā bāhya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bāhya. "It is external." He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu denied, "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not kṣatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gītā, the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). So we are Kṛṣṇa..., preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-śauri: But in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible for ordinary man.

Hari-śauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupāda: But who will chant? Who'll chant?

Satsvarūpa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varṇāśrama. That's the easiest.

Prabhupāda: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: It requires powerful influence in the society to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the leaders of the society, they agree. They are barking like dogs in the United Nation. They should take rightly the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be all right. They're simply barking like dogs. What benefit is there? What benefit people have derived from the United Nation? Nothing. So if they want actually world peace, world unity, they must take the formula given by Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so our duty is to convince that "You are uselessly wasting your time for unity, for benefit of the human... You take this. You'll be happy." We are safe. We have taken to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter. There is no doubt. But... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said that "I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals." Tato vimūḍha-cetasa indriyārtha: "They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification." Indriyārtha. "And for that purpose, a few years, they're making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?" And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature's law is working, how he's going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varṇāśrama, that "Here is the position."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now here is a very nice institution for the benefit of the whole society human.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our preaching in Bengal, many times we come to villages and the people are very sincere. They say that "We have our village, but we need someone here to guide us."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: "If you could make one small little temple with Gaura-Nitāi and have someone here to tell us what to do..." They want to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Bhavānanda: But there's no one there to guide them.

Prabhupāda: So you reply this, that "You come. I shall train you. You will guide. We are prepared to guide you, but it is not possible to, bring men outside to guide you. You come to us. I shall train you how to guide." This is the reply. And that is wanted. This Bon Mahārāja failed. Why? He wanted... Guru Mahārāja wanted that you start one temple in London. But he was thinking of bringing, taking men from India. Actually he had no.... (break) That is the fact. Therefore he failed. Instead of serving Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, he wanted to serve Vivekananda. To become like Vivekananda and "I shall be very much eulogized in my country, second Vivekananda." That was his ambition. He never wished to defy Vivekananda and elevate Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We must know what is the suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha (BG 13.9). Duḥkha means suffering. And the real suffering is to take birth and then again die. And between birth and death there is old age and disease. Who can deny it? Where is the scientist. "Yes, we shall end all this nonsense." (chuckling) Nobody can end it. It is not possible. But they are trying. Durāśaya. Hoping something which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Their material adventure for mitigating suffering, will it be possible? (aside:) Bring some sugar cane, er, sugar candy. The mode of ignorance is very, very bad. Little more advance, mode of passion. Further advanced, mode of knowledge. Further advanced is spiritual position. Just see. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the human society the best knowledge and they have combined together to oppose it. How mode of ignorance is prominent. The simple method is to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya (SB 12.3.51). Simple. We have given so many books. Always we should hear about Kṛṣṇa, speak about Kṛṣṇa. Then this base quality, ignorance and passion, will go. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). So wherever you remain, you should continue this. Otherwise māyā will attack. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So we should hold classes very repeatedly and preach. What is the complaint of the opposing party?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important animal. And then, when she passes stool and urine, that is also nice. The milk is nutritious, the stool is useful; the urine is useful. Why this poor animal should be slaughtered? What kind of civilization? Your material desires, eating, sleeping, mating-fulfill it like a gentleman and save time and make spiritual advancement. This is to be introduced. Why you are inventing so strenuous work and spoil time, valuable time of human life? This we want to preach. Save time, be spiritually advanced, and other necessities, make it gentlemanly short-cut. If you save time, you can read all these literatures, understand what is value of life. Therefore, the literature here. Not for all. The brāhmaṇas, educated. And they'll distribute the knowledge by speaking. Others, those who are less intelligent, simply by hearing, they will be guided. Just be convinced what kind of civilization we are trying to introduce. We should not be carried away. Then finished. In order to check others, if we become carried away, (laughing) then finish all business. To save them from being washed away by māyā, if we become washed away, then where is the hope? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example. If you want to save somebody who's drowning you must know that I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Everyone is presenting himself as the saver, savior. These politicians and these philanthropist, humanitarian, they have taken the slogan, "To serve the humanity..." What is that slogan? "Is to serve God?"

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada, Australia. The problem is that... Actually it's a fact that many of these groups are bad. They're cheating. Of course, ours is not, but because they're not very intelligent, they cannot see the distinction. Probably as a result of this court case, we will make them aware that now the other groups are bogus but we are not. That they'll have to admit. That will be the effect. But at least up until now we are being lumped in with these other bad groups. Cults, they call them. But it's a very dangerous thing. Therefore the lawyers and all of the scholars and intelligentsia of the United States is very alarmed that this is a great treading on human rights. This is a great danger to human rights because the Fifth Amendment of the... The First Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. But according to these laws that they want to pass, a parent can say, "It is not a question of religion. My son has become abnormal." So who is to say what is religion and what is abnormal? They are saying, "This is not religion." So we have to prove, "No, this is... Hare Kṛṣṇa is a religion." Otherwise they are saying this is abnormal. Now, just... Our lawyer has pointed out that if you say that the devotees' preaching is brainwash, then you must say that every single Christian priest who preaches, he is also brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must condemn all preaching. So this is against the Amendment, the Constitutional First Amendment. So there is a big Constitutional case. This court case has great interest to all the people who are into civil right and things in the United States because it is testing the freedom of religion. It's a test case. It's the biggest test case of this decade in the United States. And the American Civil Liberties Union is taking this up as their main..., one of their main points of fighting now. All over the United States they're defending. Of course, there are many groups also who are insisting, "We will fight, but only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are not going to align ourselves with a general group." They wanted to give a name, as Brahmānanda was saying. And they insisted that it must include the Hare Kṛṣṇa. The name of our organization must include the word Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Brahmānanda: This is a group of scholars and intelligent people who want to help Hare Kṛṣṇa, in other words, friends of Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually it was some of our devotees, they suggested that the name of this group should not say Hare Kṛṣṇa. It should say, "Friends of God conscious people," or something like that, because they thought the word Hare Kṛṣṇa makes some negative...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Reaction.

Prabhupāda: But Hare Kṛṣṇa is religion.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Kṛṣṇa consc..., bhakti. And aratir jana-saṁsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some..., for our own benefit or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmīs, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he'll be benefited. This is our... Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-saṁsadi.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That is Narottama Ṭhākura's instruction. You must be very angry, those who are against God and devotee, very angry. Utilize your anger for them. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. That anger is service. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe. For Kṛṣṇa's service one should be mad. Kāma-krodha should be given up, but a bhakta does not give up. Utilize it. A bhakta should be very much for kamut(?) serving Kṛṣṇa. And he must utilize his anger for the bhakta-dveṣi, those who are not devotee. Kṛṣṇa-sebā kāmārpaṇe krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. We have nothing to give up like Māyāvādī. Kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. Mātsarya may... That has to be... A bhakta cannot be envious. If a bhakta is angry upon them, that is not envious. That is for good. A bhakta should not be envious. Otherwise how he can preach? He's merciful. Even if he's angry, it is mercy. Therefore this mātsarya has no use for bhakta. Other things, they have use, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, not mātsarya. Mātsarya is very bad.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for the rest of the year.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That they actually do. With this festival, they collect. Whatever they collect, they spend twenty-five percent for the festival, and seventy-five percent they keep it for eating whole year. This is their business. That's a fact, they admit it. And they have no other source.

Hari-śauri: They're not very well supported now either.

Prabhupāda: Who knows them? Why they will be support it? My Guru Mahārāja used to, (Bengali): "A pandemonium of eating and sleeping. Joint mess." Joint mess, just without any Deity, nobody will pay. Therefore... Not for preaching. So make this program immediately. Bring huge quantity of books and distribute. And see that books are not wasted, not stolen, neglected. This is our life and soul property. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to educate them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascal people, they do not know how life is going on, and they are creating anarthas. Therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. So this is the position. Mūrkhāṇām upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. "If you try to advise rascal, he'll be angry."

upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ

prakopāya na śāntaye

payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ

kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam

So this is the position. Still, we have to do our business. What can be done? Difficult task. Therefore, if you want to please Kṛṣṇa very quickly, you should struggle for preaching.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes we find a dilemma in preaching, in the sense that if we preach very vigorously we invoke the attention of the authorities. That is to say, if we were to preach a little less vigorously, there might be less objection, but then again there would be the less benefit because we would not be preaching as vigorously. It's very hard to know sometimes just how forcefully to preach.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in the court cases that we've had against our society, they only question our method of preaching. But this is the first case where they are questioning what we are preaching. It's the first time I have seen it. Usually they're simply arguing over "You should distribute books like this or not like this." But now they are questioning what is in the books.

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Prabhupāda: We shall...

Hari-śauri: We have to represent our religion properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their first qualification. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask anyone what is the aim of life. They cannot say, like animal. Animal does not know. Eat, sleep, sex. They do not know. This is the demon's first quality. In which way life should be directed, they do not know. They are missing that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I preach in the colleges, that's the first question I ask them. Not one person can answer. Never.

Prabhupāda: Aimless life. Aimless life, what they will not do? Everything they'll do for sense gratification, because there is no aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the college never gives the answer, the teachers. 'Cause they themselves...

Prabhupāda: They do not know. The whole Western civilization they do not know what is the aim of life. Naturally the aim of life becomes like animals-eat, drink, have sex and defend. That's all. That is the Western civilization. They are busy for defense and sex arrangement and eating voraciously and sleeping.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that you have to explain, what is that transcendental knowledge. So what is to be done now if they're taking our boys by force?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's two things. One thing is that from our side we have to explain that they have no brains. That we have to preach. And from the other side, all of these other professional groups who are helping us, they have to counteract what these deprogrammers are doing by lobbying in Congress and all the other legal means. We cannot do that, but they have position; they can do that. So we should inspire them to do that.

Ādi-keśava: For every letter that the deprogrammers write to some Congressmen, they have to write a letter. For every speech that the deprogrammers give, they must give a speech. That is the only way it will work. Just like they applied to the Catholic Church to speak in the classes of the Catholic Church about cults and deprogramming. So now we have also had our people apply to the Catholic Church that we can also speak in their classes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So then you have to go?

Ādi-keśava: But they have to do it because they will listen to the professionals. They won't listen to us. They say, "You just want to talk your religion." But if a professional man, a big professor, comes in and says, "I can tell you..."

Prabhupāda: We have got so many professor friends. There is Dr. Stillson Judah, Dr. Sukla. There are so many.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Ādi-keśava: Especially I've been speaking with Mādhava in Boston, but Rūpānuga was telling them that they should just stay and write for the journal and not go out and preach. I wanted them to go and speak on our behalf as Ph.D.'s.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is now necessary.

Ādi-keśava: They are eager to do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: All right. We'll arrange that.

Indian man (3): Mahānāmavrata brahmacārī. Which class of Vaiṣṇavism he follow?

Prabhupāda: I don't recognize him as a Vaiṣṇava. If you want more, then I will have to use more strong words.

Indian man (3): No, if he's...

Prabhupāda: He's not a Vaiṣṇava. He's a bogus man! He wants to establish that Jagabandhu is incarnation of Caitanya. Where he got this authority? And he got the title Doctor and so... Why does he not preach in America? Some of our men say it is bogus, purchased title. You can get such title if you pay money.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are feeding. We want to feed more.

Acyutānanda: But they make propaganda that they're starving to the whole world, that "We're starving nation," and they get aid. Powdered milk. Powdered milk is sold, though. Government takes that and they sell it.

Prabhupāda: All right, let us preach. That is our only business. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). (Bengali with Bhakti-caru Swami) This is family. (Bengali with guest) If you can find out, bring him some way or other. He is very qualified man, but he's misguided. I think he did not like to live separate from his wife. That is his demands, maybe. (Bengali) Very qualified man.

Pradyumna: Yes. English, Hindi, Bengali...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he wanted to live with me. So what happened to him? (Bengali) Now we want some Bengali literature, Bengali, Hindi. (Bengali) He has got command of the right... (Bengali)

Pradyumna: No. It's new edition.

Prabhupāda: You find out that man. (Bengali) ...chai ne, drinking ne, smoking ne. It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means "no," so many. No "yes." Only "no's." "Not this, not this, not this." It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: "How our sons have accepted so many 'no's' unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he's controlling their mind, independence.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You find out that man. (Bengali) ...chai ne, drinking ne, smoking ne. It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means "no," so many. No "yes." Only "no's." "Not this, not this, not this." It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: "How our sons have accepted so many 'no's' unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he's controlling their mind, independence. Bas. Deprogram. Capture them." This is the... "How our sons can accept so many 'no's'? " And important items—no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication. Everything, life, is no. (laughs) Rāyarāma said, "It is simply 'no's.' " He left. What is their daily necessity, all "no." The same thing is happening now, that "How they have accepted the 'no's'? It is brainwash, mind control." Lord Zetland said, when he was offered these "no's," he said, "Impossible for us. We cannot give up this." And I was also thinking in the beginning, that "As soon as I propose this 'no's,' they will say, 'Go home.' (laughs) No more preaching." And it is Kṛṣṇa's desire, they accepted so many 'no's.' I was not hopeful that these American young boys or gentlemen will accept these 'no's,' because I heard, "Lord Zetland said, 'It is impossible.' " If they go to a, one goes to a restaurant, he must find out one illicit woman. Is it not? It is not the practice, that they should go to a restaurant with one girl? Otherwise he's vagabond. (Bengali) He was ten years in London. He has good experience in villages. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Sit down. (Bengali) "...that you cannot become happy without Me. Therefore I advise you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pā-I'll give you..." (break) Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Therefore only intelligent person is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. All fools. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. (Bengali) (break) One dayānika,(?) what is that? If he, that time, one paisa, if he could collect two annas, oh, he would encourage him like anything.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Ādi-keśava: Right. Another thing is that this group, they are very organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration. Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the best welfare activity to the human society, but because they are so dull, they cannot understand. Mūrkhāṇām upadeṣo hi prako... If first-class rascal is advised, he thinks otherwise, that "He is bothering me." So what can be done? We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not force. It is no...

Satsvarūpa: Let me remain in stool.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching. It does not mean that we are forcing. We are saying that "Your brain is in stool. Wash it like this. If one agrees, he does it. Not that in our movement all world has joined. One who is intelligent, he has agreed, 'Yes.' I am not forcing. If I would have possessed that forcive power, what right you have got to bring me in the court? You are forcing me to stop this. You are forcing. Nobody can force, but you are forcing." You should take this argument and expose them at least in the court, licking of the vagina civilization, like dog. Yes animals do that.

Ādi-keśava: I think the more strongly we preach in this way, that we don't try to give in and compromise...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Ādi-keśava: The more that everyone will hear about this issue...

Prabhupāda: We must expose them, that's all. This is our business. This is a good opportunity in the court, so that it will be published. People will know what is our philosophy. Licking of vagina civilization, this. Publish.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Because unless you give up this business of vagina-licking, you'll have to be entangled in this body. Either as a dog or as a hog, as a human being or as a demigod, as a tree, as an insect, it will go on. In this way plead. Let the people understand what we are preaching. Advance this philosophy, widely discussed. Then our success.

Hari-śauri: There's no question this will be widely discussed.

Prabhupāda: And... (someone enters) (Bengali) (break) Smelling the aroma, such a nonsense.

Hari-śauri: As you say, just like dogs.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: Just like the dogs.

Prabhupāda: Dogs and all animals, smelling vagina. They think, "Here is real pleasure."

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Just like our Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, it was established... This temple was established by Jīva Gosvāmī. He was brahmacārī. So how these gosvāmīs, they are worshiping? He had no sons. It was... The temple was established by him, but the worship was transferred to the gṛhasthas bhakta. So they are doing by generation. All these Vṛndāvana temples, Govindajī temple, Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, Rādhā-Dāmodara. Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, he was also brahmacārī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa. He did not marry. Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they sannyāsīs. So how these gṛhasthas got this sevā? They were disciples, gṛhasthas. So gṛhastha disciples were meant for worshiping Deity. And others, they are meant for preaching. This is the primary principle. So if you are engaged in preaching... Deity worship, it must be done in scheduled time, this time, this time, this time. Then that is very difficult for you. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not do that. He was traveling alone, preaching, preaching. So it will be great burden to carry Deity. But in preaching work, when you are many, you are carrying Deity in the bus. That is good, there are others, some nice engage, that is temple life. But personally if you carry some Deity, it will be troublesome. It will be hampering your preaching work.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: What about in the temples, when we're visiting the temples? The temples we're visiting now... That book that Jayatīrtha was making on Deity worship following from the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, he told me he is making on your order to make a standard of Deity worship. That is the standard we should be advising the temples to follow?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it simplified. At the present moment, especially in the Western countries, it is not possible to follow very elaborate program, but what I have given already, that is sufficient, six times worshiping, ārati, just like here going on, just like the same program. Not to make it difficult thing, because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, more difficulties are coming. So simple, things should be simplified. That is wanted. (break) Go on preaching from one place to another, another place. Mahā-vicalanam. Mahātmās should walk. Vicalanam, "movement." Just like I was in Vṛndāvana. If I had not moved, then this movement would not have been started. Because I moved at the age of seventy years, something is now tangible. So similarly, every sannyāsī should move from place to place. Parivrājakācārya, that is... Ācārya means teacher, and parivrāja, movement. Bhavānanda Mahārāja has become very popular in Bengal. You can move from village to village. People will like you. You can speak little Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Little bit.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja is giving Ph.D. Nobody cares for it. And nobody comes to take the Ph.D. These are all superficial.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not immediately necessary.

Prabhupāda: No. So you are coming from, now? Manipur.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm coming from Manipur. I made several preaching engagements in the law college, the colleges and universities in Manipur also.

Prabhupāda: So it was all successful?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They are very anxious to hear about the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially in law college. The title is very appropriate. We say "The Laws of Nature." In the law college we speak about the laws of nature and the fundamental principles of knowledge from not only the scientific angle.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why? It doesn't matter, only a few persons may take, but the ideal must be there. And preach all over the world. For me it will be difficult to move everywhere, but so long my life is there, I'll give you hint. You develop it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So far in Manipur, most people in the educated class, they all accept.

Prabhupāda: Then that will be very nice. I want to have a small Vaiṣṇava state-varṇāśrama ideal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is possible in Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I thought it. Ideal Vaiṣṇava state. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they are doing very nicely, and people will be surprised, "Oh." There is no question of hatred. It is division for proper discharge of duty.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is... I am speaking from my realization. It is not superficial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Our platform now is simply on your order we are doing.

Prabhupāda: Even there was no such suffering. Just like I am suffering now. It is due to so many irregularities. So many. For preaching I have violated so many things. What can be done? As far as possible, I have kept pace.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (chuckling) No one could do what you have done, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: How I can... Main business is how to... Gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe. "Let them first of all, somehow or other, yena tena prakāreṇa. Then I shall impose rules and regulations and regulative..." He has... You have not seen from the very beginning. They have seen. I worked very hard. Two times lectures, cooking, and meeting and twenty-four-hours writing book, typing. Not a single moment, and still I am not wasting single moment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: I was giving two tapes daily.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Who is...?

Gargamuni: He said, "I must do this."

Prabhupāda: What is his name?

Gargamuni: I don't know his name.

Rāmeśvara: Hṛdayānanda and Pañcadraviḍa Swamis were preaching to this pilot for several hours. They went up to his cabin.

Gargamuni: He's the chief all over India of all the pilots. He personally landed the plane.

Prabhupāda: Where does he live?

Gargamuni: I don't know so much about him, but I can find out.

Prabhupāda: One pilot, he was coming in Bombay, Mr. Sharma. He was driving this 747, and one Parsi gentleman, he was also driving. Might be.

Gargamuni: The general manager of Air India for this side is a Parsi man. I was speaking with him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then two...

Gargamuni: And he said, "It is thanks to your society that this is landing now." He thanked us.

Rāmeśvara: Some reporters were also speaking with me at the airport, and I told them, "Don't think that Air India can bring planeloads of people to Bengal. Don't think that they can attract people to land in Calcutta. But only because of Lord Caitanya, we are making so much propaganda that by the planeload they want to come to Bengal." He was writing these notes. The whole credit goes to Lord Caitanya, we were saying.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Devotee (3): This is Chinese character scroll. It says, "Books are the basis, preaching is the essence, utility is the principle, and purity is the force." It was translated wholly by myself, and the characters were written by...

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Devotee (5): I can read, but I don't write. Ah... That's not purity. It should be... It's not so exact.

Prabhupāda: What did he say in the trans...?

Devotee (5): It's cleanliness rather than purity.

Bali-mardana: He has translated purity as "cleanliness," not quite exact.

Cāru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? There's some devotees here from Berkeley temple, and they'd like to make a gift. These are some pictures of the temple which has just been newly redecorated. That's the siṁha-dvāra.

Hari-śauri: It's all based on Jagannātha Purī.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Nice, very nice.

Cāru: Devotee named Bhāskara made those.

Bali-mardana: This is Australian devotee, Bhāskara. (laughter) He has collected.

Prabhupāda: This is done in America? This?

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Go and ask. In India it is called takata. Takata(?) means "send men." If somebody owes money, you go and ask him. So he'll pay something. If not all, he'll pay. In this way realize.

Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Currently there's only about six or eight people that are doing this type of work in Europe and then other parts of the world, excluding India. And if we were to start this program, there would be a necessity of more men that would have to be supplied...

Prabhupāda: As you are preaching, more men will come. Man will come; money will come. Everything will be all right. Kṛṣṇa will supply. Now, here, this Chinese Gītā, they have already sold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nearly five thousand copies sold.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that you first of all have the stock. Then sell. You must have stock.

Bhūgarbha: But to do these standing from house to house... We should also continue standing orders in universities. Should that stop while...?

Prabhupāda: No. Side by side, you can go on. Kṛṣṇa is eternal. His business is also eternal. It will never finish.

Pañcadraviḍa: This standing orders to individuals, is that something like life membership program?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many educated, enlightened men. They will take.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. They're printing in England. That's all right. So why not the same magazine, but different article?

Rāmeśvara: I once asked Hṛdayānanda, "Why not have your men just translate the articles into Spanish from English and print the same magazine, since we have already done the layout?" And he said, "Because the photographs are just Americans. Now, to use this in South America, we want to have photographs of Latin Americans, and we want the preaching to be more specific, more current events and relevant..."

Prabhupāda: This is not very good argument.

Rāmeśvara: He says the people are offended by Americans in Latin America.

Prabhupāda: They have got that tendency.

Rāmeśvara: Jayatīrtha used the same argument in England. He said that the people do not like the idea that this is coming from America.

Prabhupāda: That you discuss. What I can say?

Brahmānanda: Should we have karmī photographs in our magazines?

Rāmeśvara: What do you mean?

Brahmānanda: Like in the English issue they have three photographs of torture.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So, do this.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they don't... They print different contents.

Prabhupāda: No, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa must be there.

Hari-śauri: We can't produce a magazine without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa. That is not good. We cannot allow.

Rāmeśvara: I mean, the only place for pictures of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, every, every...

Rāmeśvara: ...is in illustrating a story. When illustrating one of the pastimes....

Prabhupāda: No. We print... We must, therefore, publish Bhāgavatam, Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Rāmeśvara: We're publishing Bhāgavatam as an insert in each magazine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that must be there.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How can I give them? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ: (BG 7.15) "Anyone who has not fully surrendered to..., he is this, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ." That's a fact. Just see. This man has got some intelligence. He's simply cheating. This is duṣkṛtina. He should have preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has got intelligence. He has created a position, means this is intelligent. But that intelligence he's applying for declaring himself as God. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Intelligence being used for some bad purpose. He's not God. Cheating purpose. He knows it. Everyone knows that he does not know. But he is using his intelligence for some bad purpose for making some temporary position. How rascal he is. He's not God. Suppose he is accepted as God. But he is imitation or cheating God. How long it will go on? But he's such a rascal he does not know that. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Therefore mūḍha. For few years, suppose he remains so-called God. What is the benefit? Next life he may become a dog. What is the benefit? Therefore mūḍha. Māyā-sukhāya, indriyārtham. Indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Hm? For sense gratification for a few years and make such gorgeous cheating process. Therefore he's rascal. He does not know the value of his eternal life, how he is going to become a dog next life. He knows, but he doesn't care. He's such a rascal. For temporary happiness, men and woman, er, woman and money.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Akledyaḥ, that... The wood, if you put into the water, it will be moist. But it is not... Soul never becomes moist. That means the five elements—earth, water, air, fire, ether—all these five elements can be cut, can be moistened, can be burned, can be dried up. But he is giving negative definition that "Soul cannot be done like that." So therefore it is not fallible, material.

Indian (3): Will you preach to your Gītā... (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The people cannot accept... (laughs) Therefore I said, dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're too restless.

Jayatīrtha: Adhīra.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say that education has been so wrongly given that they are restless like animals due to the modern civilization. The beginning of spiritual education they cannot accept. What they will make, further progress of spiritual life? Beginning, ABCD, they are so restless, they cannot take. This is the position. Therefore I'm speaking that it is meant for the dhīra, for the rājarṣi. Not for the men who are like animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Their bodily conception is so strong that they cannot hear even what is said. They are so dull. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10).