Prabhupāda: . . . accepting a leader, one has to consider what is the position of the leader. They do not take such account. Now they calculate if the leader is very cunning, then he is qualified. They think that politics means cheating, cunning, bluffing. That is good qualification. Lloyd George, sometimes before he came, he said: "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." He must be inconsistent. And here, this is defense. Tasya vartamānasya (SB 1.16.17). How he is situated. (break) . . . as it was everywhere, especially in India, that if one is not God conscious, he is a third-class rascal. That standard is now gone. Now to become God conscious, to talk of God, is a business of primitive fools. They think like that. Is it not?
Prajāpati: Yes. They say they are realistic and we are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Who is realistic? The rascals?
Prajāpati: They think that people who believe in God are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the realistic?
Satsvarūpa: To work in social reform or politics. To work with social reform or politics is realistic.
Prabhupāda: Reform means that continuously reform? Then where is perfection?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no standard.
Prabhupāda: No standard. (pause) What is the standard of reform, that they do not know. Wherefrom the swan came?
Satsvarūpa: Oh, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the facilities are there . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)